Liverpool Banter Archive March 20 2017

 

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20 Mar 2017 23:32:48
Hey guys,

Not sure if anyone has posted already, but just want to congratulate Robbie Keane on being inducted to the FAI (Football Association of Ireland) Hall of fame at the awards ceremony over the weekend.

As an Irishman, I always loved to watch him play for Ireland and became Ireland's record goal scorer, His goal in the 2002 world cup against Germany springs to mind.

I always felt he deserved more time at Liverpool, i was soo chuffed when we signed him, he wasn't as prolific as Torres at the time, but I felt he added something unique to the team, and while the MLS is probably not as competitive as the Premier League, he has still bagged over 80 goals for La Galaxy, not bad for a player who joined in his 30s.

Pity it never worked out for him at Anfield, but what a player he was over the course of his career.

Congrats Robbie
YNWA.

Believable14 Unbelievable1

21 Mar 2017 01:17:16
I was made up when he signed, gutted when I learned why he had to go.


21 Mar 2017 07:56:11
Robbie Keane was an absolute waste of money but not the fault of the player. I can still remember Rafa saying he first wanted Gareth Barry and then Robbie Keane.

Barry was not signed and rightfully so. Rafa then ousted Keane.


{Ed001's Note - actually it was the fault of the player, which is why he was out of the door so quickly. His lifestyle was extremely undesirable.}

21 Mar 2017 08:04:22
Rafa still wanted him though and ended leaving a big hole in the clubs pocket.


{Ed001's Note - yes but that is not the issue, and it is not a reason to hit out at Rafa, this was purely Keane's fault he failed. Keane let himself and the club down badly. Rafa made a lot of mistakes that he can be faulted for, but that was not one of them. Everyone, pretty much, thought Keane would be a good signing prior to his arrival.}

21 Mar 2017 08:17:54
I also thought Keane was going to be great signing. I did not know about his lifestyle. Surely Rafa and the club would have though?

So now knowing Keane had a awful lifestyle, the club still went onto sign him so do not think blame can fully fall at Keane's feet.

This is basically the same mistake made by Liverpool when they signed Balotelli. Balotelli deserves to be ripped apart for his no care attitude but the Rodgers and the club were well aware that he was a problem child yet still decided to sign him.


{Ed001's Note - no it is not. It is not the same at all. Please just drop it as it involves things which are best left out of the discussion. If the club had known in advance, he would never have been bought. I really do not get why you are so keen to blame Rafa and the club over the bellend who deserves nothing but contempt - Robbie 'I had every club's scarf on my wall as a kid' Keane.}

21 Mar 2017 08:32:11
Fair enough. Like I said, did not know Keane had a bad lifestyle. He was a proven goalscorer. I was basing my post on what Rafa's comments were about the situation. Was still the comments made by Rafa in 'An Audience with Rafa Benitez'. Never heard or saw Rafa saying anything bad about Keane.

Anyway, rant over.


{Ed001's Note - Rafa wouldn't because it was private and he has taken the blame for years for Keane's failings and pushing him out of the door so quickly. That is because Rafa is a genuinely good man.}

21 Mar 2017 08:40:43
I fully agree, Rafa is one of the most humble men you will find. Especially what Montse and Rafa have done for the City of Liverpool.

If there is one guy I would like to sit around the dinner table with it would be Rafa. Having him as manager a big no from me though.


{Ed001's Note - agreed, I love Rafa the man, but would never want him back managing us either.}

21 Mar 2017 09:32:21
That is coz you are in love with Klopp Ed01. There is a position vacant at the club. Rafa for the DOF. Knows the club and city and not a stranger. He will do the very best for th club without a doubt.


{Ed001's Note - or it could just be because I actually know something about football, rather than just masturbate over anyone who is not at Liverpool. Rafa is never a DOF and it would be moronic to even consider him for a role he is so utterly unsuited for. If you actually took some time to understand what you were talking about, you wouldn't keep having to change your mind every time you realise what you just talked about was utter nonsense. Again.}

21 Mar 2017 10:09:00
That escalated quickly 😒.


21 Mar 2017 11:34:56
Yeah Rafa as DOF? This is of course football related, nothing personal but What makes you think that Rafa will be able to run a club from top to bottom football wise when he could not even work under DOF's at previous jobs? You want him to be in sole charge of footballing matters at Liverpool again? He may have been our manager but he had far to much power at LFC which eventually lead to his downfall.

Rafa did some great things for LFC but politicians do not belong at Liverpool which is pretty much what Rafa ended up being for us.

Sorry for you but Ed001 is correct.


21 Mar 2017 11:15:13
Why did he have to go?


21 Mar 2017 11:16:36
When you play a CF as a wide man it hardly works.


21 Mar 2017 11:17:23
I dunno, An Irish Multimillionaire mate sounds exactly what I need in my life!


21 Mar 2017 12:08:56
I'm sure if you googled it you would find out why he left.


21 Mar 2017 13:57:56
Insigne, Rafa (who bought a lot of dross as LFC manager) should be a DOF. Thank heavens, some people here are not in charge of decision-making at LFC. We would still be stock in 2009. He is also a politician and a control freak, all the things needed to cause chaos especially knowing that deep down, he still wants to manage us again. Complete disaster and not wanted. BTW Insigne, are you using Harry's umpteenth user ID on this forum cos your love-in with Rafa sounds familiar?


21 Mar 2017 15:17:20
I can't find the answer on google and I missed it when it all came out, so I have no idea and have always wondered why he left. Could somebody drop a vague hint?


22 Mar 2017 00:56:36
Errrm maybe he wanted a dream move to Columbia? ;)


22 Mar 2017 10:10:44
Raffa was seriously messed about by Parry, Hicks and Gillette

Compare the quality of the signings early in his Tenure to the later seasons.
At that time Hicks and Gillette bought the club on credit from the banks, this loan or debt was transferred onto the clubs accounts breaking promise not to
The club then faced huge repayments that massively reduced the transfer budget
That's Why Mascherano went to Barcelona one season then Alonso etc. Etc.

Raffa had to sell to buy and at this time The world's banks were collapsing and calling in loans.

The club nearly went belly up.

So to say That Raffa bought dross is really unfair.

I still don't know what Robbie Keane did to warrant being sold but I do remember him missing a few sitters similar to LlanLas at the weekend.


20 Mar 2017 22:19:00
Question for Ed 2 please
What is your opinion on performance based incentives / contracts . It seems like players play with hunger when they have a point to prove. Like Emre Can atm, they then secure a huge contract and performances slip ( like Lalana ) . How do you ensure that the players remain hungry to consistently perform and not fall in to a comfort zone. or do I have a too simplistic view of things?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - If you have a team that plays for each other and are on similar wages then performance based bonuses work - the team bond and the work toward a common goal that sees them benefit as a group. The issue is now that there is such a disparity between those who sho up and perform every week and those that have very highly paying contracts. Once the disparity is large it causes an us and them, or even worse, an us and him scenario. Most clubs don't have this issue but the further up the chain you go the more the issues are evident - Real Madrid and Ronaldo is an issue now as a bunch of the players - regardless of what they are paid - don't see him pulling his weight. Barcelona - we are seeing a split between Messi and Neymar 9the old and the new) that is within 6 months going to see major issues. Manchester United has a good player in his mid 30s who wants a two year deal at very significant money as he runs down his career - a problem. I appreciate that Can played very well this week judging by reports from here - but I suspect he will be cannon fodder in the summer as he has been inconsistent. The time to discuss his contract is probably not in the days after a decent performance. The time to discuss it is after half a dozen decent performances in a row. Can is a decent player but perhaps one that will ove on.}

20 Mar 2017 22:53:45
Thank you Ed2 it is knowledge like this that you provide to this site that keeps me hooked. Hats off to you.


{Ed002's Note - You are welcome man.}

21 Mar 2017 00:54:02
I second that ed great insight, so will the problems at Barcelona see one of messi or neymar move or have i miss interpreted that?


{Ed002's Note - Not necessarily.}

21 Mar 2017 02:07:19
Doesnt affect the nfl.

Theres a understanding that certain players get paid more.

Its supply and demand.

Pogba keeps the club a global club. Yes he might not be performing but he's getting paid for putting united back on the map and cementing the addidas deal as he is there poster boy.

Coutinho scores 40 yard beautys.

Origi does not. For exanple if he came a knocking.

My nfl analagy was a qb can be on a 100 million pound contract and aome of the guys in his defensive line could be on 1/ 2 mil a year. Rolling contracts. There easily replaced. A qb is not.

Ronaldo is not easily replaced. The majority are.

You gey paid for what you do. If can had hit 15 goals this year then would we be even on any of these subjects. he could demand what he wanted. He hasnt. He doesn't have much leverage. That was just for my point i know he's said he wanted game assurances over money.


{Ed002's Note - You have an extremely naive view about Pogba.}

21 Mar 2017 02:29:09
Agree completely with your assessment on Can.

Cheers.


21 Mar 2017 06:28:02
Ed 2 - Is the United player Zlatan?


{Ed002's Note - Yes,}

21 Mar 2017 15:12:52
In my opinion, players should only get a pay rise / new contract, at the end of the season . how many times have players got their pay increase, then their form has dropped, I can recall 3 Liverpool players right away who did this . Klopp messed up again .


20 Mar 2017 19:56:42
Evening Eds
...............

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I cut the stuff about money as it confuses football fans. You should try the Southampton page to ask about their players - this is the Liverpool page.}

20 Mar 2017 20:10:10
So ................


{Ed002's Note - THis is the Liverpool page - if you want to talk about the players of other clubs go to the appropriate page and don't both people here.}

20 Mar 2017 20:17:30
.......deleted..............


{Ed002's Note - Try not to be such a limp wristed glifnard - it is easy enough to shut you account down.}

20 Mar 2017 20:31:48
I'll chose my words more carefully in future.


{Ed002's Note - Thank you Zippy. But the Southampton page would be the place to ask and I will answer you there.}

20 Mar 2017 20:37:08
Wasn't trying to rise ya was just wondering if you thought he would be someone we would be interested in that's all!


{Ed002's Note - The Southampton or appropriate page is the place to ask about random players else it becomes a free for all with everyone getting the Kleenex out over their main squeezes.}

20 Mar 2017 20:41:36
Have to ask?

What's a glifnard?

Ed you do make me smile at times with those replies.


{Ed002's Note - Probably a typo - you should be best to Google it.}

20 Mar 2017 20:56:32
Any word on Can's current contract talks.


{Ed002's Note - Nope.}

20 Mar 2017 21:03:25
Cheers.


{Ed002's Note - You are welcome Zippy.}

20 Mar 2017 22:31:10
Savvyxone mate that cracks me up as well as " Lemmings ", a term that Waro referred to.


{Ed002's Note - I, and my then girlfriend, Jeanne, spent part of a lost summer (1974) in the Hollywood Hills with Father Yod and The Source Family. Whilst there we saw the National Lampoon perform "Lemmings" as a one off (with a young John Belushi and Chevy Chase) in LA after they had been in New York for a while.}

21 Mar 2017 01:07:47
Chevy chase in Christmas vacation has been watched in my household every year at Christmas time. Family tradition. Movie gets me every time. Belushi in animal house is also spectacular. Good taste for a rodeo clown.


20 Mar 2017 18:13:35
Hey ed002 if you are around could you please help me out?
I once read a reply of you when you where asked about what you would do to make lfc a top or the best club again, i still remember there were some 6 points in it. But i cannot find that post and i even tried the search engine. So could you please just answer that once again? It would be much helpful
Cheers.!

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - A simple six point plan to get the entire club back on a good footing:
1. Corporate Business: Liverpool have done well financially out of the sponsorship and partnership agreements but in some cases have sold their soul to the devil and in others the deal is not as good as it could be for a club of the profile of Liverpool. Look to move away from Standard Chartered and bring in a higher profile and better paying sponsor as soon as is practical. The deal with New Balance/Warrior was a major mistake and the club need to exit it as soon as possible – sadly the boat to get a deal with Adidas after Chelsea dumped them has probably sailed. Any deals with organisations that are socially questionable (e.g. Bet Victor), socially bankrupt or have caused the club embarrassment (e.g. Dunkin’ Donuts), nonsense (Nivea and the club’s official coconut water supplier TCC), are from a country with controversial human rights (flag carrier Malaysian Airlines – who replaced just as bad Indonesia’s Garuda) should be cancelled or run down as soon as possible. Being on morally better ground will make a club with Liverpool’s profile to get better profile sponsors.
2. Football Business: Liverpool has revamped in the past three years from top to bottom but yet Klopp is still getting an easy ride and the transfer windows are far from successful. Two things to do (a) get a Director of Football in (not taking the advice of anyone who suggests Damien Comolli would be a good idea), and (b) explain to Klopp that his inability to adapt is a large part of the problem and that he needs to do it (perhaps with help) or look to apply for the Barcelona job or take some time and wait for the job he really wants at Bayern Munich. There are better coaches out there and the likeable clown act is wearing thin.
3. Fan Considerations: Establish a point of liaison with fan representatives (Ed001 perhaps and the sad fat guy who runs the other site - I don't recall his name) but do not involve the Spirit of Shankly in any way – a bunch of morons in a pub who want the club handed over to them and are planning already to give the owners a hard time starting again this summer need to be brushed aside. If they are interested in buying the club they need to be told to have their bankers call when they have a $1B Banker’s Draft in hand and the club will be sold to them. If they want to act responsibly and represent supporters they need to lose the aggressive and controntational approach.
4. Wrest Power Back from the Players: Players at high profile teams (in particular in the Premier League and a few other individual players dotted around Europe) are not fully focussed on doing what they are employed to do, and in many cases are paid well to do. I would get someone in (a really knowledgeable football guy who can advise the club) and have them speak to each of the players to really understand where their focus is and where they want to be. I would also have a suitable advisor go right through all of the coaching staff and look at the methods of coaching. I would then get the players together and tell them that the club will be making addendums to their contracts requiring such things as responsible behaviour, not wearing flimsy designer football boots that offer little protection, wearing black boots only in games, responsible usage of social media, banning all at club visits by hairdressers and car salesmen, banning the use of all hair care products etc.. The players need to be controlled in any interviews and interviews, and any endorsements, should all be arranged through the club. Any players to which the club is making payments to third parties for such nonsense as image rights need to be moved on or the contracts amended at no penalty to the club. Then they need to be asked if they buy in to the club and these changes – if they don’t their agents can be told that the club is happy for them to find new employers for their charges.
5. Reserves and Loans: Firstly get some structure and planning for a career path and look to establish relationships with a couple of sides such that the loan system can work for the club. The liaison structure is critical as whilst managers may occasionally see players it is generally something undertaken by others dedicated to the task. As an example, each loan player from Chelsea has a liaison officer assigned (some are ex-players) who regularly see them, deal with any issues and report progress back to the club. For instance there was a problem with a couple of players in the Netherlands and that resulted in the club having them get involved with spending some time with the local community (schools and charities). Chelsea has also helped clubs they have and are building relationships with - this may include providing training facilities, loaning coaching staff, having ex-players works with them in some capacity etc.. They have a structure in the Netherlands and Belgium in addition to relationships with South American and old Eastern Bloc countries. They are currently working a deal with a Champions League side as well. Similarly in Italy I know that the clubs with a significant number of players on loan have regular contact and bring them back as a group for training on a couple of occasions mid-season. I am sure there will be someone at Liverpool keeping contact with the younger players on loan where there are legal responsibilities as some are still technically children but others on loan from Liverpool reported the occasional text message only – simply not good enough. Many clubs in Spain and Portugal have built relationships with other sides and it helps with brining in players from South America.
6. On Field: Whilst the fans want significant changes every year the club needs to get in to the position of making small changes to improve the team each season, not simply discarding the work done and starting again. It has not worked with the recent managers at the club and Damien Comolli was a massive mistake (which I did explain here the day he joined). Right now the side ids not too far away but like other managers it is a task Klopp struggles with – so the club need a good footballing guy as Director of Football to help out. Financially the club need to be self-sufficient or making a profit – particularly given the additional media income. Give Klopp the marquee buy of Julian Brandt this summer and then fix the problem areas though sales.}

20 Mar 2017 18:31:39
Thanks a lot ed for the quick response. Cheers!


{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}

20 Mar 2017 19:09:58
A very good interesting read!


20 Mar 2017 22:32:09
Thanks Ed, would it be safet to assume that you think Liverpools current sponsors are a bunch of glifnards?


{Ed002's Note - Not the sponsors, just those that thought having Dunkin' Donuts and the like would make good partners for a sporting side. Just waiting for the sign behind Klipperty at the pre-match interview "Liverpool's Saturated Fat Sponsor".

21 Mar 2017 01:03:22
Another great post ed, i agree with most of it obviously as it all makes perfect sense.


21 Mar 2017 05:36:59
Agree and likewise on the sports betting - I know they pay and that's tempting, but is it really worth aligning yourself with that predatory life-wrecking vulture of an industry? What's the opportunity cost in terms of turning away other potential suitors?


21 Mar 2017 19:51:58
Agree on the DOF tip, the Loan system and Klopp's need to adapt his tactics for a league without a winter break. We are not far behind from where we need to be. We just need to stop looking at what other teams are doing and focus on the right changes to make and subtle tweaks here and there.


20 Mar 2017 16:37:09
Whats going on with Ward. I believe he's has a rather good season with Huddersfield. Will he be back as number 2 or 3 keeper? Or will we loan him out again or will he be sold?

Believable0 Unbelievable1

20 Mar 2017 16:54:09
I expect him to seal a permenant transfer to Huddersfield if they get promotion.


20 Mar 2017 16:54:26
Having watched him this season at Huddersfield, I feel he's good enough to be our No2 (incidentally, I don't think he would make a good enough No1 just yet without more experience) .

Bearing in mind that Ed002 has said we've been looking at Pickford and Ruffier in the goalkeeping position however, I fear Klopp doesn't see him as a No2 and that he may well move on in the summer.


21 Mar 2017 05:40:50
Really tough position as GKs are obvious not rotated much and really should be playing at a young age. My preference would be for a Karius plus older, more experienced GK like Ruffier or Handanovic and let Ward go on another loan for a year to get game time.


21 Mar 2017 17:49:37
Have to say that if we are going to splash money out on another keeper we should at least go for one who can dominate his area and be a significant upgrade on what we already have and neither Pickford or Ruffier are a significant upgrade.


21 Mar 2017 21:56:55
Having watched Ruffier for years, he doesn't inspire me in the least bit and has serious attitude issues. As for Pickford, he's another MOD type player just like Van Dyke. NEXT!


20 Mar 2017 12:55:42
Klopp will be livid Wilson now also called into the Wales squad alongside Woodburn. Let's hope it doesn't have the same affect as last time on him and the same affect on Woodburn as him.

Believable0 Unbelievable2

20 Mar 2017 13:41:11
What affect?


20 Mar 2017 15:33:08
Why would klopp be livid that the kids are bring called up to be in the waled squad? Sure it's a big confodince boost for them!


20 Mar 2017 15:45:10
Harry Wilson was called up at 15/ 16 and he's only just this season got back the form that got him the call up. For 2/ 3 years he lost his way because he thought he'd made it. That's why he'll be livid. They don't need ego boosts. They need to be kept grounded and given opportunities in perhaps the u19s/ 20s/ 21s at their age. Not the full squad when neither player has earned it not even close. Woodburn was called up for politics and Wilson I honestly have no idea how they could justify that the tied him to wales at 15 which is all they're doing with Woodburn. 001 will agree with me I'm sure.


20 Mar 2017 16:23:41
That's a pretty ridiculous argument. "They don't need ego boosts. " there's a difference in ego boosts and rewarding good play? If they can't handle the pressure, better we find out now. And sheltering them and never playing them is DEFINITELY not the solution. Just because you're a kid doesn't mean you shouldn't play. If you can ball, you can ball.


20 Mar 2017 17:58:37
they would both currently walk into the wales side, bar bale they are not exactly overflowing with quality, coleman does not exactly have a big pool to choose from, weather it is right or wrong is another argument.


20 Mar 2017 18:15:12
Didn't the Wilson, lad, chap, fella, buddy boy, kiddo, matey, good old fella suffer from injuries and that's why his form dropped.


20 Mar 2017 18:34:26
Wilson played a game for Wales and was immediately dubbed the next Gareth Bale, a comparison that surely went to his head and following that his form dropped.


{Ed025's Note - hes more gareth gates than gareth bale mr C.. :)

20 Mar 2017 21:46:28
didn't say i agree with the comparison Ed025 just stating to the OP how Wilson's previous Wales call-up had an impact on him.


{Ed025's Note - i know that mate..

20 Mar 2017 23:17:24
it kinda depends on the kid don't ya think tj? but the other thing is that say someone doesn't handle it well like harry didn't, that's not to say he couldn't recover from that and do better with age. he was 15 / 16!


20 Mar 2017 23:38:26
Jezza Kyle, I know Harry Wilson he lives in my town, and wether he got called up at 15 or not would have made zero difference to the team he played for. He's a proud Welshman.


21 Mar 2017 10:36:57
And why would he be livid, exactly?


20 Mar 2017 12:39:14
What article is next for the world's best ed001? Need something to interest me during the international break mate!

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I don't know mate. I am open to suggestions now. I have been busy sorting out my visa up until now so haven't thought about it. I will probably do managers next.}

20 Mar 2017 13:45:17
You could write about Midfielders. That will open up plenty of brains on the site.


{Ed001's Note - need to do something as I hate international breaks!}

20 Mar 2017 15:42:47
Its a good thing you are past denial Harry!


20 Mar 2017 14:56:05
ed001 if you do pick managers could you do the best and also those that are overated? would love to read your thoughts on this subject, thanks mate.


{Ed001's Note - ok mate, I will add overrated in to the list too.}

20 Mar 2017 14:57:56
Hi Ed1,

I always wanted to know the level / standards of educations the players have in each of the top leagues - English, La Liga, German, France .

If there is an existing site, you can point to the site or you can take it as to do if interested.

I am trying to understand if basic / decent education has any link with tactical awareness and understanding of the game.

Spain and Germany are doing great at international levels and would be interesting to know if this has any relevance to the players being better educated.

Is it worth a topic?

Cheers.


{Ed001's Note - the academy players receive a very decent school level education. Man City, as an example, give a very expensive private education to their academy players, which attracted a number of their youth team lads.}

20 Mar 2017 16:17:52
thanks ed001 I look forward to reading that.


{Ed001's Note - I hope it lives up to expectations then in that case!}

20 Mar 2017 17:34:06
How about the dark world of S&M Ed?


{Ed001's Note - you would need Ed003 for that mate. Now the dark world of M&Ms and you have the right man!}

20 Mar 2017 18:43:21
So does it mean the professional footballers aren't much educated at all. I mean like a basic science degree or engineering or any masters' degree.

Always read that Frank Lampard had high IQ levels but not sure if he had basic degree to follow it up.

Cheers.


{Ed002's Note - Most professional footballers are dumb as a box of rocks. Some are brighter, some are very bright and can hold their own with grown ups and some are even good company socially. But generally, and particularly in England, dumb as a box of rocks.}

20 Mar 2017 19:57:01
Very scary to hear.

Is it just football like that or all other sports?

How can they understand the tactical awareness / technicalities if they are really so dumb?

Is this one of the reasons why England is behind in internal scene?

Does it mean Span/ German teams is better off with minimum/ higher level of literacy?

Cheers.


{Ed002's Note - (a) Footballers are towards the bottom of the scale of animal life - few other sports have dropped to such depths although a number of East Coast baseball players from Boston and New York are giving them a run or their money. Boxers and people who fight are also generally far from the brightest - otherwise they would chose not to earn a living being punched in the head all of the time. (b) If you demonstrate and shout the same thing often enough footballers will learn simple repetive tasks. (c) No, it has no impact on the abilities of England to fail or succeed at football. (d) No, it is irrelevant.}

20 Mar 2017 20:28:16
Haha deadly Ed.


20 Mar 2017 20:55:51
I know i'd appreciate a world's best central midfielders list. Other than that an article on the world's most overrated and underrated players of the past 10 years or so would be interesting!


20 Mar 2017 21:34:05
Lfc academy is paired with rainhill high school I believe, school I attended and is highly thought off. Most of which happened after I left but I believe the club pumped a fair chunk of change into the school also for devolopments onsite.


20 Mar 2017 23:20:30
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how well systems can be replicated across different parts of the world. for example, I saw someone laud the work that Zorc has done at Dortmund and identifying youngsters etc. but could Zorc do that in the prem league, given that there is so much more money in the premier league and how does that effect the kind of yougnsters that end up in the prem? If it was just about money, then surely the yougnsters at dortmund would have been snapped up by the bigger clubs who could pay more? or does dortmund pay crazy wages for their players?
any who, the article topic would be about how the dynamics of a country's culture and the culture of their league impact on the development of a football club's identity. cheers :)


{Ed002's Note - It is never as simple as shifting an entire structure to another league. Zorc fitted Dortmund and Monchi Seville. You cannot pick them up and throw them in to Stoke and expect miracles. One doesn't want to be cliched and say "horses for courses" but clubs need to build a purposeful structure that suits their needs - you throw Messi in to Manchester United and it is disruptive - as an example. You are to some extent correct in mentioning culture - it is a big deal and you can take some great players and managers and coaches and shift them to somewhere it rains, they have totally different food, there is a language issue etc., and it it won't work. Putting Monchi, Klopp and Firmino in China won't work at all - all decent at their jobs, but a paradigm shift from the comfort zone they are used to. In the premier league, Zorc could likely slip in of course.}

20 Mar 2017 12:18:21
Fullbacks. Interesting one this - we have one that has played 95% of his career as midfielder and is predominantly right footed playing on the left. And Clyne who has made the England squad again.

Both are asked to stretch the play and provide a threat going forward similar to an out and out winger - and both are berated on here for not getting back enough and therefore being poor defensively.

I think Milner has done well considering the where he is used to playing - he's not the long term answer but it shows his professionalism to get on it with it and do the best he can.

I also think Clyne at times gets an unfair assessment - I agree that his final ball at times isn't good enough - but I would like to see him spend more time on his defensive duties - I thought he dealt pretty well with Sane last night considering after the first 20 mins Sane was staying up top and therefore leaving Clyne 40 or 50 yards to get back and mark him.

our fullbacks aren't the best - of that there is no doubt, but they are asked to play two roles in one and therefore it seems that perhaps they don't either very well.

Are there many other full backs in the PL that would be a vast improvement - spurs for sure, maybe coleman at Everton, .

The way we play makes it difficult for whoever gets the nod at full back.

Believable4 Unbelievable2

20 Mar 2017 23:27:45
I think the love affair with TAA will only last as long as his first or second mistake. I really hope that he becomes a great player for us and fulfills his potential. and likely that it'll be in the midfield as well anyways right?

regards Clyne, I agree fully. he gets a lot of crap on here. yes he occupies Mane's space sometimes. as does lallana. but he also tracks back, rarely gets beaten one on one. and when he does, the sky shouldn't cave in on him because he got beat that time. geez. he has energy for days, gets up and down that line and for me given us everything on the pitch. it's not like his deficiencies are intentional attempts to leak goals haha

anywho, if he is there I think we will be just fine.


21 Mar 2017 10:54:26
Terrific post on a good Monday morning. We are not the only team that ask full backs to do multiple jobs. Spurs with Walker and Rose almost play as a wing back which they make it happen by adding another defender plus a solid stopper in Wanyama. Everton play their full backs very high as well City All having specialist Stoppers in their team specifically instructed to protect and cover the gaps left by their full backs. City in turn also has two wide players in Sane and Sterling which help them to track back and overlap their full backs

Liverpool don't have any of them mentioned in the first place. We play with two orthodox B2B players who are asked to do a defensive midfielders Job. Our full backs ain't great going forward nor defending. We don't have winger on the left hand side and our wingers cutbinside far too often which leave the work of a full back even more difficult to track back.

The crucial point is what you get when you sacrifice a player for offensive full backs. Spurs donget goals and assist regularly from their winge backs as well Chelsea and City. Liverpool simply don't get anything from their full backs to play a DM.

Even if you play a DM, Clyne and Milner would never provide you with assist or goals.


21 Mar 2017 10:43:17
Weller, Clyne is suspect defensively as he is a perennial ball-watcher. He gets caught out of position at often as well and well his final ball is there for all to see. Oh, I'm sorry, it is not. In Klopp's style, the fullbacks provide the width and therefore, MUST have quality in their end products. Our FB's don't have these and are just above average defensively even tho, they are very good athletes. Being a good athlete does a player no longer make in modern football. You need end product especially in at positions that require it. Hence, changes need to be made at both FB positions, I'm sorry.


21 Mar 2017 10:50:36
The modern full back position is probably the hardest position to play as modern teams get their attacking width from the fullback overlapping up the wing.
When he does this it obviously leaves a hole in the defence that can be exploited by fast counter attacking teams such as Chelsea, they use Hazards and Willians pace to deadly effect.

If a fullback is in attack mode the other 3 defenders should move across the pitch to make a temporary back 3 closing the gap made by the attacking full back.

George Graham, manager of the great Arsenal back 4s reckoned that imagine the back 4 were attached together by a long rope each attached in their natural starting positions.

As 1 full back attacked he would pull the other defenders over at the same time maximising the space left.

Our problems against the lower clubs happen because when we attack trying to break them down we sometimes through frustration and complacency have our 2 full backs advanced leaving the 2 centre halves exposed.

This is why Lucas (who I really respect as a holding midfield) player should never be used as centre half as his lack of pace can be exploited.

Lucas would be better utilised sitting in front of the back 4 or three and moving back and over the pitch laterally depending on what full back was attacking with the intention of cutting out the counter attack at source or by at least slowing it down to allow the fullback to get back into defence.

Makelele at Chelsea was superb at this as currently is Kante.


20 Mar 2017 12:14:17
Crystal Palace with three clean sheets in a row with Sakho in the team. Well done!

Believable9 Unbelievable1

20 Mar 2017 12:45:52
Ed do you think we will hold on to Zaha?


20 Mar 2017 13:05:18
Great. Let's recoup some much needed cash in the summer. £20 mill would be brilliant.


20 Mar 2017 19:06:57
Personally, I'd love to see Matip/ / Sakho.


{Ed025's Note - more chance of matip/messi dwarf..

21 Mar 2017 10:43:53
Great, the transfer fee will only go up when we sell him.


20 Mar 2017 10:26:10
So UTD have two games in hand and if they win both of them they go above us.

Believable4 Unbelievable11

20 Mar 2017 10:38:05
Is that how it works? Thanks for clearing that up 😊.


20 Mar 2017 10:55:15
first time poster. im not concerned the teams below us. Utd will drop points. Maureen has lost his vibe. He has the best 22 man squad in the league and he still complains. Everton don't have the experience. Arsenal have imploded. we just have to take each game at a time and focus on our opponents. im more concerned about Stoke and Westbrom.


20 Mar 2017 11:30:08
Don't see how they can possibly beat city but knowing mourinho it will be one nil in of the refs arse.


20 Mar 2017 12:46:22
We should not worry about other teams we just need to do are job.


20 Mar 2017 14:40:02
Agree Matip - we win most our games from here in and we should make top 4, we just need to get back to pre-Christmas form in terms of putting away the bottom half sides.


20 Mar 2017 14:45:05
City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Everton all to face united. We've faced them all. Our run in on Paper is the easiest out of all the top 7 clubs, they'll take points off each other, as long as we hit 2 points average per game we should make top 4 easily. Just hve to avoid complacency.


20 Mar 2017 23:29:48
such a cool way to end the season. the teams around us all have big games against each other coming up so someone will be dropping points. and then we have our everest to overcome over the final 10 games - playing team outside the top 6! very fitting I think, and would be a great way for us to make the top 4 if we can dominate the rest of our schedule.


20 Mar 2017 23:30:35
It depends if they play their games in hand before our next game.

NB - they don't.


21 Mar 2017 10:47:22
Their two games in hand are on the road vs City and Saints so be rest assured that Mou will employ Tony Pulis tactics of a back 6 in both games hoping the ref will help him out as they have been want to often this season. Good luck with that, Mou. But seriously, teams below us are no longer our problem until they are above us so top 4 is up to us now and no one else. Full focus should be on the Everton game and NOTHING more.


20 Mar 2017 08:12:09
Great viewing last night, some special attacking moves from both sides. Really feel sorry for yaya last night, age is on the wrong side of him. The way he qas mid 2nd half reminded me of my indoor football days haha.

Believable3 Unbelievable2

20 Mar 2017 23:30:32
the best part was when Can was running with the ball and the commentator said something like - "Can is surverying his options, one of which is to just run past Yaya" hahahahahahahahaa.


21 Mar 2017 10:52:34
I saw that too. It either that Can was running fast or Yaya was going backwards as soon as Can hit second gear. It was the same with Fernandinho when Can pulled away from him and he tried to hack him but couldn't.


21 Mar 2017 10:53:24
When City signed Toure Under Mancini
He was probably the best player in the Prem. And top3 in Europe.
Few players could match him and Mancini used Toure perfectly.


20 Mar 2017 06:35:47
3 points would have been better but I will take 1 point at this stage away to City any day of the week. Very chuffed with our performance and the result.

Spurs still need to play Chelsea away, Arsenal at home and UTD at home.

City still have Arsenal away, Chelsea away and Leicester at home.

UTD have Everton at home, Chelsea at home, Arsenal away and Spurs away.

I believe the remaining fixtures rule in our favour but we know how the bottom half teams get the better of us.

The team we need to watch out for is Everton. They have to come to Anfield though and still have UTD away, Leicester at home, Chelsea at home and Arsenal away.

Top 4 place is now ours to lose as we are in a very good position to qualify for CL next season. Time for Klopp and the players to stand up and be counted and the City result proves that this team has the ability to compete with the best. This coming summer will be one of the most important windows yet. 4-5 quality additions and we will be a force to be reckoned with.

Believable11 Unbelievable3

20 Mar 2017 07:14:10
also city will meet united.


20 Mar 2017 08:03:19
So what does everyone reckon will be the points tally required to finish 4th this season?

Looking at the fixtures left for each team fighting for a top 4 place I would say 70 points gets 4th.

We therefore need another 14 points from a possible 27. We will only require 1.56 points per game. We have 5 home games remaining. We are currently going at 1.93 points per game and continue at that rate which will see us ending on 73 points.

We are within touching distance. Fingers crossed!


20 Mar 2017 09:35:36
But you realise our issue is against teams who sit back and give us no space behind! The teams left for us all play such deep defensive football 😄.


20 Mar 2017 09:38:18
Spurs have played Chelsea home and away this season. Only Arsenal and Utd left to play at home and haven't lost all season at home.


20 Mar 2017 12:31:11
Yeah, my bad, the CHE vs Spurs is the FA Cup semi.

Still, they are going to be without Harry Kane for at least another 7 weeks.


20 Mar 2017 12:50:49
Still convinced we'll finish second.
Chelski
Liverpool
Spuds
Citeh
Gooners
Man Utd.


20 Mar 2017 13:51:54
You sure Gmac. Im confident Liverpool won't finish second and United won't finish sixth. Im even up for a bet!


20 Mar 2017 20:43:10
Guys I think that we need to remember that things are tight at the bottom as well meaning that teams will be forced to play for a result rather than look to draw games. We play a few teams who are desperate for a win due to their position . Teams won't just sit back at some point they will attack . We ned to be patient and take our chances when they come . We as supporters need to believe in the potential of our team . that's all we can do really . Our destiny lies in our own hands . Call me idealist but if you believe it you can achieve it . Just my opinion chaps, feel free to disagree.


{Ed002's Note - If "things are tight at the bottom" there are some specialist creams and lotions you can get from High Street apothercarys and some very specialised web sites.}

20 Mar 2017 21:27:13
Thanks Ed 2 I will be sure to proof read before I post again . I walked right into that You are classic!


21 Mar 2017 10:55:14
I think 74 points will do it for 4th this season even tho, we can still get up to second if we play our cards right.


20 Mar 2017 04:24:05
we really need coutinho and firmino to get out of this slump they are currently in and show the form they showed last year, we are not shy as fans to give can, wijnaldum, klavan, milner and mignolet plus lucas to name some of our favourite whipping boys a hard time when there form is not up to scratch, so let's not let these 2 off the hook, getting them back in form will go a long way to ensuring a top 4 finish. We know what they are capable off we really need them both to start showing it again.

Believable6 Unbelievable5

{Ed001's Note - seriously? They both had good games last night and caused City nightmares at times. Why would we want to get on their backs as they come back into form?}

20 Mar 2017 04:38:39
Was not impressed with Coutinho last night. Lost the ball too many times in spite of taking few risks. Firmino was good though, pressed a lot and got into goal scoring positions. Just needs to work on his composure in front of goal a little.


20 Mar 2017 04:48:17
I will have to disagree with you there ed001, coutinho has not played well since his return from injury and firmino once again was found lacking when he had a great chance to make it 2-0, this is not a witch hunt I just personally feel both players can do better as they have shown in the past, looking forward to reading your match review as always ed001.


{Ed001's Note - I am just rewatching the game and doing the match review now. It is past the point where Couts went off and I thought he did well, but was let down by the finishing. Still not at his best, but he played some good balls, made some good runs but was never really given space or time on the ball by City. Firmino was excellent, bar his finishing, but it is a bit harsh to have a go at a player who has played so well. On another day he will score goals galore, he just needs one to go in off his backside or something to give him a lift.}

20 Mar 2017 05:07:57
that's where I feel both players need to improve ed001, firmino should really be bagging 15-20 goals a season he has all the attributes required to do so, his finishing does seem to be eratic at times I felt he should have lifted it over the keeper coutinho on his day can win a match all on his own. As I have said this is not me taking the chance to slag them off, its just frustration talking as I know what both players are capable off.


{Ed001's Note - yes, they can improve, but their performances have been getting better and yet now you choose to dig them out. If they were playing poorly and not showing signs of improvement, you would have a point, but they are playing better by the game, so why complain?}

20 Mar 2017 06:17:27
i thought origi on the wing was awful and he looked clueless. firmino is not a good striker, he's being wasted in that role while also taking someone elses chance. wijnaldum looks like an upgrade on lallana, klopp must be over the moon with his new workhorse. i think we should drop continho and put firmino in his role. then bring on continho as a super sub with a point to prove. i think we should keep alternating between the 2 to see who wants it more. I doubt it will ever happen because it would upset the players. we don't want that do we. we have to keep everyone thinking their spot is safe and become complacent.


20 Mar 2017 06:32:25
Kingkenny, to say "so let's not let these 2 off the hook", sets the tone for your views. What? we should lay into them cos' they deserve it? What's that supposed to achieve besides provide a platform for the plastics to rant?


20 Mar 2017 06:53:18
Had we won the game Iam 100% sure a diffrent tune on both players would be ung, both played well last night, give them support.


20 Mar 2017 06:55:17
i kinda agree with wiseryan, about the rotation. with coutinho on the bench and dropping him in midfield or wide left seeing who of Lallana or frimoho of Orgi who needs replacing. That said that city game could of gone any which way.


20 Mar 2017 09:32:03
You could give some credit for Pep and Fernandinho who kept Couts very quite. Not many players could do that. They knew the threat and played him over Sagna.
Couts should move in to the middle, We badly need a left winger with pace and trickery!


20 Mar 2017 09:33:34
Wiserayan

A point to prove? Fernandinho is the best city player and tbh the only player who could have kept Couts quite and they know the threat. Firmino on the flanks is dreadful as good as Sturridge on the flanks. We need a left winger. An actual left winger, someone like me.


20 Mar 2017 10:00:19
we also need a world class striker for next season, its obvious sturridge won't be here next year.


20 Mar 2017 10:22:40
we got a point at City which at the start of the season you would have jumped to get, Now again i come o this site which i love and i like the diverse reactions and opinions, but the same poster are bashing players. If their usual victims have a good game they just move on to another player they are never satisfied enough to say what a good point, I have to question their loyalties as fans.
On Coutinho i would say he got physically dominated at times by a physical midfielder playing right back but i thought he had a good game and worked hard. On Firminio whom is not a number 9 you have to realise what he brings to that team to really appreciate him, in my opinion he is the player tat is key to the press and like the great Ian Rush he starts our defence from the front, he also had a good game and you guys just don't appreciate the off the ball work enough to realise it.


20 Mar 2017 11:50:03
his finishing is nothing like the great Ian Rush if it was the whole of Europe would be trying to sign him. Coutinho was poor again imo, after he was subbed last match for a 17yr old I expected him to come out all guns blazing yesterday he didn't, I am giving my opinions not slagging off players for the sake of it, these are our most talented players and if we can get them back into form we can qualify without being nervous for the champions league.


20 Mar 2017 12:46:45
I'm with ed on this one, Cout in the first half was as poor as usual but really upped his game in the second half and was the player instigating most of our attacks, it looked like he had his confidence back in how he was taking players on with ease again.

I certainly feel he'll be back to his best soon and benching him is not the why to go about it, I personally thought Firmino was playing worse than him in the second half and really needs to improve his consistency in finishing if he is to nail down the number 9 role.


20 Mar 2017 13:00:09
you see kenny you read what i wrote and took your own opinion from it i compared Firminio to Rush because he starts the press and defends from the front i never once mentioned his finishing. as for Coutinho you need to loo at city squad and realise fernandinho was played there to do a job on continho he was even moved to midfield after coutinho was taken off, on another day he would haved recieved a yellow card for at least one of the tackles on coutinho, but yet as poor as you said he was i thought he was still a threat and Guardiola must have agreed to take their best defensive midfielder to do a job on coutinho.


{Ed001's Note - one yellow? Fernandinho should have got 4 or more! I have no idea what he would have had to do to get booked but it would probably involve public beheading. Even that might have just got him a tallking to with Oliver in charge.}

20 Mar 2017 14:49:06
Firmino is an excellent CF and while not the most clinical finisher (but still better than most! ) he creates so many chances and is so key defensively I'd be happy to play him every day until we can get a real world class finisher. He had two good chances of his own yesterday and set up a few for others, not least of which was a sitter for Llalana on the back of his clever movement and first touch.

What he does need however is for others around him to be on form as the goals need to be shared around. Coutinho is still working his way back to form but even then I'm not 100% sure that LW is his best position - I could really see him playing midfield over time and another Mane style player on the left (if we can find one) .


20 Mar 2017 14:57:40
I was really dissapointed yesterday.

As individuals there were some good moments, but as a team i thought we were terrible for the most part. couldn't steing 2 passes together apart from the odd flash. The press wasnt there as a unit. Every player was struggling to make simple 5 yard passes. They looked knackered tbh.

Good result but i've seen us play like this before under rodgers where we got the result or should of had more but just couldn't get into 2nd gear

The same last week against burnley and we won. So its all good at the momebt.

My point i guess is with 10 games to go i don't see us getting into a run like chelsea are on where there good results turn into a real great end to the season

Im going for 4 wins 3 draws and 3 loses.

71 points total.

Will that be enough. Fingers crossed.


20 Mar 2017 16:46:20
For me couts is better in the centre. Firmino is very good but sometimes wasteful and gets caught you wonder if he will get you 20 a season? But i will always remember a few of the dribbles couts has done from deep in the middle and when he has movement infront of him his passing sometimes is unreal. He is good on the left i just think really you move him to the centre and if we bought another winger, or maybe used youth/ marko on the left i think we would have a really nice attacking trio but then you have to choose only 2 MF if we have firmino up top. I think studge will go tbh i love him but doesn't look like he will get a game.

thought the team played well, it was an open game and could have gone either way, will take the point.

Was impressed with GiGi, i have been fairly critical but the last few perfomances he has been so good. Definitely settling in and getting more invovled and is scoring some goals!


21 Mar 2017 10:54:21
Supermane, BR should be left where he is as he has no bearing on how good or bad we do. I'll take the point cos they could have won it like we could have. That's football.
KK, steady on there, lad. Couts may not have been at his best but it was a marked improvement from his recent perfs of late. Fernandinho is a very physical DM and he was plaed there as RB to nullify Couts cos Pep knew neither Zab nor Sagna could deal with his pace and trickery. Also, both Fernadinho and Couts play for Brazil so he will know his game thru and thru.

In spite of all that, Couts played in som good balls and had his shot gone in or had Firmino converted his blind pass, you're not here complaining and slating him. Same for Firmino. You do know that he only trained two days before the game and was prolly still carrying an injury and in spite of all that, he had a great game due to his movement, skill, guile and intelligence. Had Lallana not missed a sitter and had he got lucky with his shot, you're not complaining either. You are entitled to your opinion BUT a little context is required.


20 Mar 2017 02:13:20
Ed001 have you done a match review yet?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - not yet mate sorry will do it once I have caught up editing the sites.}

20 Mar 2017 12:56:32
Coutinho was almost back to himself last night bar his finishing and at times final ball. But his movement and control and dribbling looked much better also the turn of pace seemed to be back as well. I agree with end that hopefully this is more him getting back to form rather than a need for criticism. Firminos all round game last night could easily have made him man of the match his movement and interplay is simply immense but with the obvious crucial miss and two bad decisions at key times when he got space in the box at other times do take a lot of the shine off and possibly highlight long term his incapability to be relied upon as our focal main striker and getter of crucial goals. But he does seem to be a streaky player in front of goal. So something to work on anyway.
I'd like to give a mention to can as well I thought our midfield in general was very impressive for the most part but I thought can had one of his best games for a while and used his physicality to his advantage much more effectively than in the past.


20 Mar 2017 13:42:57
All good just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed it. Cheers.


{Ed001's Note - it is on the others page now mate.}

21 Mar 2017 10:57:16
Spot on, Shanek. Great collective performance from all especially form Can, Wiji, Firmino and Couts (marginally, tho) . And to know that Migs had next to nothing to do in the game shows how in some strange way, we were good defensively.


20 Mar 2017 00:44:05
A question for both Eds 01 and 02 really if they are around.
Im old fashioned and I believe in second chances, I also believe Sakho to be a better centre half than anyone we currently have, so, I know the standard response has been read the posts and I know the general consensus is he's gone but if you had the option yourself would you forgive and forget? Would you offer the olive branch? Or just keep the man away? Is it a club issue that he's overstepped or is Klopp just set in his own ways?
I would make the effort with him but that's me, what do you both think? Not what is definitely going to happen but what would you do? Was the issue so bad?
Take care and todays draw was a point well earned in my eyes YNWA.

Believable2 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - he has had a second chance, get rid, he is a disruptive influence who does not work hard enough in training.}

20 Mar 2017 03:43:13
he bought his problems on himself, did he need to disrupt our season by taking fat burning pills no, did he need to act like krusty the clown on pre- season and piss klopp off further no, if in our jobs we continually act out of order we would get suspended and then sacked, we as Liverpool fans need to accept that sakho will never play for us again and move on.


20 Mar 2017 09:52:00
Sakho's heading is worse than a watermelon bouncing from the Truck. Sakho was bullied and outclassed by Dortmund, Precisely Pace.


21 Mar 2017 10:58:54
If Sahko was let go, you MUST believe that he has gotten a lot more than one chance. That is professional sports. I love Sahko BUT it's all his fault for the problems he's got. Get rid as he is disruptive, undisciplined and we cannot allow the prisoners to run the asylum. Klopp believes in team spirit and collective responsibility and accountability and if a player can't adhere to such rules then, he needs to get gone, ASAP. Besides, Matip is much better than him so all we need is get a CB as good and calm as Matip to play next to him. That CB is NOT Sahko.


19 Mar 2017 20:45:38
Match report ed?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I will do it in a sec.}

 
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