Liverpool Banter Archive December 01 2017

01 Dec 2017 15:27:43
How you doing Ed025,

{Ed025's Note - im fine thanks harry, i took a bit of time out recently to charge the old batteries and sort out some personal stuff but now im back and raring to go mate, how are you mate?..

01 Dec 2017 20:09:24
Glad to hear you're back and firing on all cylinders Ed 25.

{Ed025's Note - cheers jayden..

01 Dec 2017 21:41:04
I am doing good mate. Good luck for the weekend mate 😊😊.

{Ed025's Note - you too harry mate..

01 Dec 2017 23:04:40
How's you and the family Ed?

{Ed025's Note - good thanks barry, the enemy is trying to get me to decorate before christmas but besides that its all sweet mate, i hope you and your family are well mate..

01 Dec 2017 23:46:16
The appointment of Sam Allardyce helped Ed 25 to boost himself for sure.

{Ed025's Note - it really did Eka, i thought to myself how can life get any worse than this and it really boosted me.. :)

01 Dec 2017 16:52:39
with all this rotation hoping to see a back line of Karius, TAA, Matip, Gomez, Robertson

unlikely but we shall see, hopefully see the famous 5 (-1) of Coutinho, Mane, Salah and Firmino!

not going to predict as it will usually end in disaster but excited for the game!

01 Dec 2017 17:48:52
If lovren took Matip’s place that is the line up I’ve wanted to see for ages!

01 Dec 2017 18:28:58
Matip's injured Rbbb, so it might happen.

01 Dec 2017 20:14:56
I'd like to see that line up but Klavan will come in for Matip and Robertson will unlikely get a game. Mignolet is the only player that is nailed on for a premier league start out of our whole squad somehow. Even our top top class players get a league rest every now and again. Mig continues to start in the league no matter how pathetic his performances.

{Ed025's Note - that is a strange one jayden, obviously outfield players and especially forwards will get a blow now and then to recharge the batteries, but i always believed that players were picked on form yet it seems migs even when he has been poor retains his place, it must be very frustrating for the likes of karius and especially ward who must be wondering what they have to do to get a shot, i dont like the situation where each keeper has a set role (one for league games, one for cups and one for europe), play the best man picked on form for me mate..

01 Dec 2017 22:55:51
Just hears that Matip is out for a month, not good news, but it does give more game time to the younger players like TAA, and Gomez,

01 Dec 2017 22:30:34
Ed25 at this rate, Karius (who has been encouraging in the CL) has to literally throw kick the ball into his own net 5 times in order to reach the level of uselessness that Migs has reached in goal.

{Ed025's Note - he does seem to be the apple of klopps eye brover, its a very important position and a top keeper can be the difference between a draw and a win or turning a loss into a draw, when you look at the teams who are looking to challenge for the title their keepers are top quality...except liverpool,s mate..

02 Dec 2017 10:57:53
I agree with you, Ed. The prob is that all the top GK's are taken (don't rate Butland as he is Pickford without injuries) so the best thing to do now is to build our own. These GK's Lloris, DDG, Courtois etc, were not born great GK's. People took a chance on them cos they were talented and their managers coached them up, put them in a system to protect them while they learnt their trade and tho mistakes happened (they still make mistakes BUT rarely do now), they stuck to it. We simply need to do the same.

Karius has all the tools that Klopp wants in a GK for his system. He just needs experience just like all the GK's I mentioned if you believe in him. Klopp per Ed01 believes in Karius as he is clearly talented BUT we will never see that talent if he is scared of the backlash he will get when he makes a mistake as we have seen how some shameless LFC fans turned on him whereas Migs has been a disaster from day one BUT seemed to get a pass for making a save any GK would. This is what Klopp is afraid of, per Ed01's info.

04 Dec 2017 09:09:14
I hope we go TAA, Lovren, Klavan, Robertson and Karius. we need to make a move at GK.

I’d like to see a more defensive midfield though with those two FBs and play Hendo, Can, Gini.

Upfront Mane, Solanke and Salah. I’m sure Solanke will score with Roberson and TAA putting in dangerous crosses, and likely to also set up Mane and Salah for a good chance or two.

01 Dec 2017 12:29:12
Square Tomato I’d love you to find out the general dressing room feeling of all this rotation!

As well as finding out how angry Ward is hope we don’t lose him!

01 Dec 2017 13:03:37
It would be subjective to who's asked I imagine, I bet the ox is made up and anybody else on the fringe of the first 11 as it's a great chance to show worth with starts but as mane shown last week some that want and expect every game when available wouldn't be impressed.

01 Dec 2017 14:31:10
well someone else will get a chance at centre back,
now Matip is on the injury list yet again,
we seem to have a rotation of its own at centre back,
we need another right back, and move Gomez to the middle of defence,
def get in a big centre back in Jan, one that can play each week,

01 Dec 2017 14:37:57
people keep bringing up ward but at the minute he probably don't care as if im right he's injured.

01 Dec 2017 15:05:45
He played for Wales I2theM. Which is very worrying as the club have indeed been saying that he is injured.

01 Dec 2017 15:57:33
He played for the U23s against Sparta Prague.

01 Dec 2017 19:13:22
As much as I’d like ward to get his chance him leaving isn’t a loss like can would be, I don’t think any of the three keepers we have are good enough to help us make the next step, just as the CB’s aren’t.

01 Dec 2017 09:41:43
For me Henderson is better in an advanced role but the issue is the players who play furtehr up are much better than him. Trying to accommodate Hendo in a role which doesn't suit him what so ever which is the deep lying role is a waste of time in my opinion. He isn't an orchestrator, he isn't a protector he contributes very little to the team and is certainly not a captain on the field. His attitude as a professional is wonderful but i don't see win the big trophies with Hendo as the core of our team.

01 Dec 2017 09:59:28
Hendo should sit on the bench and if the game is won should be bought on for seeing it through.

01 Dec 2017 10:03:30
I think he is better in a box to box role than anyone else in the league when fit and on form.

Problem is, his fitness has deserted him. Add that to the fact he is being asked to play a role he has failed to adapt to and it is a recipe for disaster.

Don't forget how good he was between 2013/ 14-2014/ 15 in a box to box role. He got about 10 goals and 25 assists across those two seasons. Without his high energy pressing, selfless runs, and link up play in the final third being utilised though, he has just looked average.

01 Dec 2017 10:29:33
Think the best role now for Hendo now would be as a utility squad player, hence taking over from Milner who will leave in the summer.
We will sign one of Goretzka or Meyer in the summer plus Keita coming in as well. That's two spots in midfield taken and one left for Lallana, Gini and Hendo to fill. Out of those 3, Gini and Lallana cover more ground and link up better with our forward players.

01 Dec 2017 10:32:02
is anyone else getting tired of the hendo-centric critique. can one player be the core of a team?

01 Dec 2017 11:02:19
Spot on mk. He was so important to us and I struggle to think he can't ever get back to that level again. Think a few weeks rest might be the thing for him to regain some form. Or perhaps ease some niggling injuries which could be affecting his game. Probably but until after Christmas period I'd imagine. I wonder is the weight of captaincy affecting him too? It's difficult to inspire when your form is out the window.

01 Dec 2017 12:05:45
I am, Faith. It is becoming ridiculous and boring. They say he passes sideways. When has passing sideways ever been a prob for the great Ajax and Barcelona teams under Cruyff, LVG and Pep? NEVER. Why? Cos that is how you keep possession when the forward pass is not on so as to not cause a turnover while forcing a forward pass and get caught out on the counter. But his detractors who IMO, just don't like him as a person cos they feel he should have never been capt. (their gripe is with BR and Klopp, not the poor boy mind you) are now making it sound like it is now the forbidden thing to do. Ridiculous!

Pep passed sideways uncountable times in his career. So did Xavi and now Busquets. Are they crap players too? But suddenly it is a HUGE prob when Hendo does it. The boy is playing an un-natural position and giving his all for the team even playing with injections BUT it is not good enough for his haters cos they seem to not be able to think that far. For a player not suited for the role, he was great last season till his injuries and that is affecting him and his leadership on the pitch, as AOE said.

Mk nailed it too. Hendo was awesome in 13/ 14 and should be playing that Hendo, would be great alongside Naby Keita in the double pivot Klopp likes to play. I don't know if that Hendo is still around BUT I hope he can regain that form as he was dynamite for us esp. in the big games. His detractors should change the record cos it is getting tedious.

01 Dec 2017 12:07:52
Whilst I agree, hendo certainly isn’t a master of any specific role in midfield he is still more important to the team than can, especially with can being so lacklustre recently. Last season can improved vastly then had his head turned for whatever reason and now wants to leave and he’s back to his old inconsistent best. I’ll be happy to get a decent fee for him and replace him with a top quality DM. Hendo will either play in the 3 alongside Keita and one of our other creative players in wijnaldum, Lallana or coutinho (or his replacement) . Either that or he’ll be a squad/ utility player and the 3 in midfield would be a dedicated DM, Keita and one of the creative players. Either way I think it’s important to keep hendo.

The criticism of him has been slightly unfair as he’s been asked to play a role he just isn’t that affective in. In my opinion that is Klopps fault for failing to recognise we needed better defensive reinforcement at the back and in midfield. Hendo is actually really good when it comes to the box to box role, that’s his natural game.

01 Dec 2017 12:20:03
That's the problem - some of you are picking out particular seasons when a player did well. Good players invariably play well all the time. That's the difference.

01 Dec 2017 12:31:31
That is a bit harsh Izzo. Henderson is still a very good player underneath his injury troubles. We constantly see glimpses of it.

You can't just ignore the fact that he is a good player because he's had 2 seasons of injury troubles. The problem is that like with Daniel Sturridge, there is only so long you can afford to wait for a player to get fit before you replace them. We waited for Sturridge for far too long before Rodgers finally decided to phase him out of the starting XI and that contributed to cost him his job in the end. Klopp is at risk of making the same mistake with Henderson.

Very good player though. It isn't about being selective, it is about being fair in your analysis. You might as well say that Agger was a bad player for being injured. However, you can't keep somebody who is always struggling with injury just because they are good when fully fit. I think if Hendo hasn't proven his fitness by the end of this season, we will see him replaced. No need to ignore his obvious abilities though or discredit his past achievements. Bad players don't get to be the captain of England and Liverpool.

01 Dec 2017 12:49:54
Best B2B midfielder in the league? What the actual hahaha.

01 Dec 2017 14:48:08
When fit and playing to his full ability i don't think there are many better at that particular role Samuel.

Arsenal only have Ramsey who is inconsistent, City only have Delph and Toure who can't get into their midfield, United only have the still improving Pogba doesn't get back well enough yet (hence why Matic was so desperately required) and Fellaini who is vastly over rated, Chelsea have Bakayoko and Drinkwater who are average at best, but to be fair Kante is better than Henderson in hindsight, and Spurs only have Sissoko who is absolutely atrocious etc. Our own Emre Can is similar to Pogba in that he gets forward very well but tracks back far to slowly, and Milner is just a headless chicken.

At the lesser sides i suppose you have a few decent players such as Hendrick (Burnley), Doucoure (Watford) McCarthy (Everton), Mooy (Huddersfield), Davis (Southampton) etc. I'm not convinced any are better than Hendo when he is fit and on form (though Doucoure could be potentially) .

Aside from Kante (who is definitely better despite me forgetting him in my last post) and potentially Doucoure and Pogba in the near future, a fit Henderson is better than any other box to box midfielder i can think of in the Premier League.

Why don't you try writing an intelligent response this time, Samuel? Football is an opinions game and I'm keen to hear who you think is better than a fit and in form Henderson, and why? The beauty of an opinion on a subjective topic is that you can't be wrong.

01 Dec 2017 17:15:13
I get it when some defend henderson. Super guy. But he is playing in that defensive midfiels role. And he is being critisized in that role. Most agree its not his best position to play so as ling as he plays there he will get stick for it. I think Moreno would be a better wing but het slayed as a left back. And fairly so when he is bad he is really bad.

02 Dec 2017 11:02:29
Great post, MK.

01 Dec 2017 06:48:47
Hi Ed's
Do you feel not buying a reliable and experienced center-back and letting Lucas leave this season was a mistake that could bite us towards end of season.
I personally feel he had done a good job covering as CB for few games.

{Ed001's Note - possibly, but I see it as an opportunity for Gomez to play there.}

01 Dec 2017 07:38:45
Not sure Klopp is really looking to pair gomez with any of our CB,
because it might harm the kid more than it will do good. let's admit all our current CBs are a disaster waiting to happen and the kid won't learn nothing decent from them,
I think once we buy a new CB, Klopp will pair him with Gomez and i believe he see's that as the way to go.
if that's the case i think it will pay dividends for both the team and gomez.
question remains who do we buy in january? i am not so convinced by VVD as many on here, may be last season, but this season he hasn't looked at all good, and he is definitely not worth what we will shell out for him. i think the type of defender we want needs to be a leader, vocal, organiser, good header of the ball, prevent set pieces, be quick, strong and above all should have played in a system like klopp so he has the awareness and presence of mind to soak up danger.

unfortunately there is no defender out there quite like that. so we would need the next best - unfortunately they won't come to us.
its a tough conundrum and our keeper dramatics just add to it.
A very important january window this for us- i think we need not one but two defensive signings. though for my life i can't come up with two names that we can realistically get - VVD / de vrij look like will be our bet. both?

01 Dec 2017 08:09:44
Playing Devils advocate here.

If our system leaves the centre backs so exposed that we basically need the next Rio Ferdinand and Alan Hansen, maybe we should change the system?

It is obvious that the centre back we need to cope in our system doesn't actually exist, so maybe we and Klopp need to accept that the system needs to change?

Like i say, just putting it out there! Sounds like the only guys in world football who could cope are a 100% fit Boateng and Kompany!

{Ed001's Note - isn't that basically what everyone has been saying and Klopp has been trying to do of late? Holding back the full backs and sitting two in front in some games is a major change from the way we played when he first took charge.}

01 Dec 2017 08:20:16
Seems that way but do we have the personel? Keita is good at breaking up play but next season if can goes, is hendo and Keita a good enough screen?

01 Dec 2017 08:26:23
Seems like he has tweaked it slightly Ed, but we're still using complex and frankly useless tactics at set pieces, still not looking like replacing Mignolet, and still not looking like actually signing a proper defensive midfielder.

If we don't improve the tactics at set pieces and put reliable players in front of and behind the defence, then for me holding the full backs deeper on occasion is like putting a Hello Kitty plaster on a bullet wound from a 50cal.

{Ed001's Note - if the full backs play as full backs, then you should have enough back to cover against breaks etc. The defensive midfielder became necessary because both fullbacks would advance, so teams needed someone else to make a defensive line of 3.}

01 Dec 2017 08:41:37
That is true Ed. Personally i think we need to play Karius, sign a centre back, sign a defensive midfielder, and only let one full back attack at a time.

Mane, Firmino, Salah, Ox, Lallana, Solanke etc are good enough to score against any team with minimal support from the wing backs and midfield.

I am just a mere mortal though so I'll trust Klopp to get it right with his own ideas for a little while longer!

01 Dec 2017 10:12:24
MK tbh i don't think klopp really has ideas, we kind of play the same be it city or be it burnley. teams that give us space we bury them ( unless our defense has another ideas aka spurs) , teams that don't give us space we bottle.
Frankly this season with addition of salah we are opening up all kinds of defenses in the epl, but our defense is getting equally exposed.
for Klopp it like he plugs one gap, solves one equation and he gets another gap open and new even harder equation to deal with.

Last year i would said we had one of the best midfield in EPL, This is season same players have no clue about defensive side of play.

i think we should go back to the gegenpress and possession game with salah we are just on another level in attack, I think Klopp should stop thinking about defense now, nothing can be done about it, but our mids can press and hassle a lot and they should go back to it. Klop has to get everyones mind out of our horrid defense, its not helping our cause.
Last season was different we didn't have salah the attack was one dimensional, this time we have a lot of attack options. (solanke ox lallana)
buy a defender in january that won't do stupid stuff pair him with gomez and go all out attack for the season.
that would be our best shot at Champion league too ( if we are there fingers crossed)

01 Dec 2017 10:56:17
This one to Ed01, But our full backs hardly provide any width mate! Moreno’s attacking output is very poor compared to any Winga backs in the league, while Gomez is not really known for his attacking instinct! The reality is Moreno is not really good enough going forward and can’t really fully trust at the back.

{Ed001's Note - if you say so, you seem to have totally missed the point and not bothered to watch them play. I guess there isn't time to watch us when you are so busy watching all these players you fantasise about or you might have noticed that Gomez created the first goal on Wednesday night. The reality is you are wrong and your whines get boring. You offer nothing but whines about our players, you never balance your views with a full view, just pick out things to whine about, even if they aren't fair as Moreno has been just about the best left back in the league this season. You do the complete opposite with other teams players, only picking out the bits to verbally masturbate over, never noticing the bad parts. Not one left back in the Prem has been consistently good this season.}

01 Dec 2017 12:12:44
Harry i have to agree with Ed001 here. No Premier League left back has been consistent and I'd have Moreno in the top 5 this season alongside Kolasinac (ARS), Alonso (CHE), Ward (BUR) and Young (MUN) .

{Ed001's Note - and 3 of those you mention have not had much defensive responsibility as they mostly have played wing back not full back.}

01 Dec 2017 12:16:55
Harry, just wow. Our fullbacks hardly provide width. Harry, Ed is correct. You clearly do not watch us play at all cos if you did, you would see that both Moreno and TAA and even Gomez have helped themselves to goals and assists this season and TAA Moreno have been whipping good bals in for the strikers to convert as some of them have. Even at Stoke, it was Gomez who provided the cross that caused the havoc that led to the first goal. Again, you don't watch us play and Ed's response to you describes the reasons perfectly.

01 Dec 2017 12:25:55
Akshit, Klopp does not have ideas and we play the same way vs Burnley or City. Where do you even get that from? We have been playing diff. personel and diff. formations from 4-3-3, 4-4-2 to 4-2-2-2 and Klopp has held Gomez back to form a back 3 when we are in or out of possession to protect the defence and has played both Can and Wiji in midfield tosit and protect the CB's. We have conceded a whooping two goals in 5 PL games and kept 3 cleans sheets in them. I know we are not perfect and more work needs to be done BUT slating Klopp and saying he has no ideas, is just false and dishonest as the facts prove the contrary.

Also, we don't gegenpress anymore as it has been figured out and frankly, the system is not fit for the PL so Klopp changed it to better fit the PL rigours. You say he lacks ideas yet he changed something that was no longer working and is making us more solid and effective up top BUT cos he is not doing what you want, he now lacks ideas. Get a grip, man.

01 Dec 2017 12:51:21
Very true Ed. Arsenal, Chelsea and United all regularly deploy a back 3. Ward is the only other left back to have performed well in a regular back 4.

To be fair actually, Delph has filled in well i suppose. Nothing spectacular.

{Ed001's Note - Delph? Seriously? Have you not been watching the last few games? Every attack goes down his side because he is dross and is being targeted. Delph has been awful and teams are getting at him.}

01 Dec 2017 14:31:31
I have to be honest I've not watched City for about 3 weeks Ed. Last i saw them though Delph did alright. If he is now being targetted though, then i wouldn't be surprised to see him being exposed. After all, he is nothing more than a temporary bodge!

{Ed001's Note - I am not convinced he is good enough to be called a bodge!}

01 Dec 2017 14:35:43
That’s ok Ed01, And maybe that’s why I am poster and you are an Ed. My views might be limited. Hence I post it rather than trying to impose it So that you can clear me well. And I am sorry but that was not any kind of whining. Truly believe we will see a new face at LB next season. I still don’t believe he offers anything spectacular going forward. Just my view ed. My view!

04 Dec 2017 09:04:52
If we had signed a CDM like Nzonzi or Obiang, then letting Lucas go was the right decision. We didn't, so now we look like fools. None of our current bunch have any defensive instincts whatsoever. We really could do with a specialist in that position right now. The defense will also be a lot calmer and under less pressure from counter attacks.

KLopp wanted only VVD for the CB position so we need to accept that he will be the most likely to join.