Liverpool Banter Archive September 19 2017

19 Sep 2017 22:45:57
I think the biggest mistake this season is the midfield trio of hendo, can and winaldum. there's not enough quality there. always try and stick a player like firmino, continho in there. people who can go from midfield and score.

the thought of the ox in a front 3 worries me. i don't think he will even score 5 goals this season. I can see why he wants to be a cm which would be ok.

we just need people who can finish. The only players tonight I thought might score were continho and maybe solanke and that's not enough. its a a shame we didn't have 1 of salah, mane sturridge or firmino tonight, it might have made the difference.

woodburn looks like a threat but came on for continho so no real difference there. the ox just felt like the misplaced guy for me tonight. along with our weak midfield as usual.

19 Sep 2017 23:31:58
not enough quality anywhere mate.

20 Sep 2017 04:27:24
Benny and a couple were in argument with me over Hendo that He would easily walk into the Spurs team 😄😄. If not liverpool FC he wouldn't have made it to the England National team ever!

{Ed001's Note - funny that, only he would have walked in to Fergie's midfield at Man Utd, as he tried to sign him more than once. Hence his bitter nasty little dig at the lad and false claim that he was put off by the running style. He would not get in right now, but that is because he is off form, but the boo boys are out in force as usual, showing that they fail to understand the word support.}

20 Sep 2017 05:08:02
Sorry ed nothing wrong with my support for the players. I never rated him not from the day we signed him for Sunderland. There is hard core difference between SUPPORT and having an OPINION on players. I support every liverpool player, But I don't rate Henderson as a player! As much as I have seen footie over the years he is is average according to me in the position he plays.
Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - if you say so Harry.}

20 Sep 2017 05:11:22
That is not much of an accolade ed001, our mf had the great tom cleverly starting many games, we had Ryan Giggs, Ryan fecking Giggs starting as a mf in 2 man mf against Barcelona. If sir Bobby Charlton at his current age played for Fergie then, he wouldn't look much worse than what dross we had then.

{Ed001's Note - you had players like that there because Fergie was struggling to recruit players at that stage. Not because of money or because players didn't want to play for United or Fergie, but simply because everyone knew he was ready to retire. I know people think he took his eye off the ball at the end, which is why your team was full of average (at best) players, but it wasn't that. It is difficult to get a player who has a long term future to think of to sign for you when you do not know if the manager signing you will be there in a week's time. Once he made that initial retirement announcement, things were just going to get more and more difficult for him, as everyone knew he was thinking about leaving and each season was more likely to be his last.}

20 Sep 2017 06:28:35
Have to disagree ed001, midfield was an issue Fergie failed to resolve since 09-10, after Anderson in 07-08, our next mf signing was Nick Powell and Shinji Kagawa in 12-13, can't blame retirement for that middle period of inactivity. Other positions maybe you are right but I think he was a bit stubborn at the end be it with transfer fees or being convinced that likes of Jones, Welbeck, cleverly will come a good, which to us missing out on likes of hazard and compounding our issues once he left.

21 Sep 2017 10:52:42
Precisely wiseryan. Klopp keeps buying more and more central midfielders expecting them all to do all sorts of work in midfield. Just buy a f*****g CDM and sell some B2B players to get better midfield balance. Gini, Grujic, Hendo, Couts, Lallana, Can and next season Keita all play similar positions but not one CDM in the team. No balance in defense and attack, so what did you expect? All the top teams have dedicated and specialist players for certain positions which allow players around them to play better. Casemiro at Real, Matic at Man Utd, Busquets at Barca, Martinez/ Kimmich at Bayern, Motta at PSG. None of the are big name or household names but they do what is asked of them and give better variety and protection to their midfield and defense.
Klopp just throws 3 similar players in midfield and expects each to do a bit of everything in tandem. Its difficult to implement and I doubt the players are too fond of being dragged all over the pitch into unfamiliar territory.

19 Sep 2017 22:16:51
posts NOT getting posted WHY?

{Ed025's Note - bit of a glitch with the server mate..apologies..

20 Sep 2017 02:21:01
I was going to ask about this haha, over the last 2 weeks only about 4-5 of my posts/ replies have been posted out of about 50 😫.

19 Sep 2017 22:06:19
One thing I will say is it's a shame Liverpool are out for the fringe player's sake. This is a good competition for them to learn in. Now they'll struggle to find games.

19 Sep 2017 22:28:54
That's my only disappointment as well, Syd esp. for Ward.

19 Sep 2017 22:37:24
Early round of FA Cup perhaps? Cannot see Liverpool finishing 3rd in UCL group, but if they did it would offer games for fringe players. So FA Cup only really unless you draw a tough team. U23's is just no good for the likes of Woodburn and Solanke. Maybe a loan to Championship side? It's a real shame for them as unless there's mass injuries, they won't get games now.

19 Sep 2017 22:54:38
If performances don't become more consistent you'd have to expect them to get games.

20 Sep 2017 04:38:12
Maybe if they want to play more games they should have played better in this one.

20 Sep 2017 07:37:22
This is the problem with throwing fringe players the one match a month bone, it ramps up pressure to perform without the match sharpness to back that up.

20 Sep 2017 08:02:29
That's a good point Smeg Head, why didn't they just think to play better? That would've solved all our problems. Now you mention it why didn't klopp just manage better? We'd be in be next round of the cup if the players just took your advice.

20 Sep 2017 15:08:06
I'm pretty sure Klopp can't run onto the pitch and put the ball in the net, we should have been out of sight first half, the fact that we weren't is down to the players not the manager.

19 Sep 2017 21:39:17
Can we give AOX back to Arsenal and get back £40 mill? An unfit Ings looked better than AOX, trust me Ings haven't played a game in nearly 2 years!

{Ed025's Note - its that little team leicesters fault harry, they have no right to beat mighty liverpool...is that not what you were implying earlier mate?..

19 Sep 2017 21:55:08
Oh yes mate. We have no diving right to beat them or anyone so we take this defeat on our chin lol.
Not sure on the scoreline on Saturday but Jamie Vardy will score 2 against us. 100%.

19 Sep 2017 22:07:05
Don't want him back, but we will give you half the money, if you take Walcott.

19 Sep 2017 22:00:33
Man ings joined last 20 minutes and oxlade was playing from the start. But ok seems to be lacking confidence.

19 Sep 2017 22:01:26
Did Chamberlain play?

19 Sep 2017 22:01:33
1 game.
His career is over.

19 Sep 2017 22:04:03
Didn't think ox was too bad given it was his first start. More concerned about hendo wiji and grujic and how they failed to get hold of the game and how we tore them apart first half and didn't make the right decisions when it counted.

{Ed025's Note - the ox was not too bad..."what you talkin about willis"..

19 Sep 2017 22:33:05
Based on what happened in the game Ed25 no the tiny club Leicester had absolutely no right to beat the mighty Liverpool. We should've been 5-0 up before they even got within 30 yards of our goal. Somehow though we've ended up losing by 2 goals. It's a funny old game innit?

{Ed025's Note - innit just mate..

19 Sep 2017 22:36:59
i thought gini hendo and grujic were shocking never thought much of henderson.

19 Sep 2017 22:41:25
The best story was Arsenal offering AOC £180k a week to stay, but chose £120k at Liverpool. They never even offered Van Persie that amount to stop him joining a rival. Such a fake story.

{Ed025's Note - wages have soared since sydney and they could pay that as there was no signing fee...thats just a guess on your part mate..

19 Sep 2017 23:06:49
AOC to play a blinder in a game in a few months time and Harry will be saying what a brilliant player etc etc.

19 Sep 2017 23:26:21
I thought Ox look shattered even in the first half.
I think Robertson can take credit and seems to be consistent in every game he plays.

Again for some reason Couts ignored a pass on at least 2 occasions to Robertson when he was in space,

All is not well at the moment in Klopps Liverpool,

20 Sep 2017 05:21:43
Can we just give the OP to Arsenal?

19 Sep 2017 21:48:41
Lost it completely out foxed. Something needs to be said from the manager after that. I mean even we go a goal down and just get deflated. Some home truths need to be said. I mean Jordan what was that. captain I'm lost for words. Ox I can't even speak about him. Or front two when we're trying to win a game has total worth of about 15 million between them. Please please sort this out.

19 Sep 2017 22:04:02
What can he say?
He's not going to tear into a bunch of youngsters and fringe players who played well but just didn't take their chances. Most were playing their first games.

Secondly, Klopp's system has to be part of the problem.

19 Sep 2017 22:19:53
We played a team of youngsters, man. Calm down and btw, people complain that we don't give youngsters a chance and when we give it to them, they moan that they did not win the game. Arsenal has been doing this for years so are they dumb too? If you wanna moan, have at it BUT stop slating the manager for doing what he was asked to do. It is not worth playing our starters in a game many big teams play their second teams in.

19 Sep 2017 22:32:43
Ron, Had we scored, the system would not be an issue as it is that system that created the chances we did not take.

19 Sep 2017 22:38:22
Agreed Ron - trying to get a bunch of youngsters and fringe players to play the same system we play with our 1st team (where it's not even working properly) was the reason we once again weren't able to perform on the pitch.

19 Sep 2017 22:42:32
The system is the reason we concede so many soft goals mate.

19 Sep 2017 23:00:01
I hate this blaming of the system. Go and have a look at the highlights from the Watford game, none of those goal were caused by the system. Most from set peices which is all about training, concentration and leadership.

19 Sep 2017 23:47:26
That was one game.

20 Sep 2017 01:52:13
A team of youngsters? Flanagan, klaven, hendo, gini, couts, aox isn't a team of youngsters that's for sure. Not our 1st XI but plenty of international experience there.

20 Sep 2017 07:12:48
They're all youngsters to me 😁.

19 Sep 2017 21:33:41
Gonna just say I didn't fancy winning the Christian Karembeu cup anyway. Never rated the guy 😂
I'm ok with a defeat tonight all messing aside.
I know people take this cup seriously and that's fine but we have much bigger priorities this season.
And I know a win tonight would have been great for morale but it wasn't to be.
We'll beat them Saturday I feel even without Mane.
Just a feeling!
Good night reds, don't be too disheartened!

{Ed025's Note - how dare them beat liverpool kev, dont these little teams read the bloody history books mate...they should have been "battered"..

19 Sep 2017 21:44:02
I guess we have no divine right to beat Leicester so this is all happy!

19 Sep 2017 21:44:35
We won’t beat them Saturday Kev an lol ed25 xD.

{Ed025's Note - i got lucky phil..

19 Sep 2017 21:47:44
Ed025, I admire your humour but really watching the game they should have. Not good enough on all fronts, disappointing.

{Ed025's Note - not the end of the world midge but it does highlight the lack of quality in the squad mate..

19 Sep 2017 21:52:56
Ok mate.
But that's a very "arrogant" attitude you seem to have there.
You should never expect to batter any team, very disrespectful and probably why your fans are disliked so much by others.
Just sayin, no dramas! :p.

{Ed025's Note - its more "you reap what you sow" than arrogance kev..

19 Sep 2017 21:56:47
We were unlucky today, IMO as our young boys showed a lot of promise and fight and it was great to see Ings back as that warmed my heart. Cou was very good as well and we were unlucky not to score today. We keep going and working hard. LC won. Credit to them. We move on.

19 Sep 2017 21:58:34
I don't get how we can call any cup unimportant or not worth a proper go when we haven't won a trophy in a while?

19 Sep 2017 22:00:23
I thought Henderson was amazing in the DM role. Easily his best performance since he pretended to work in the club shop.
I think he should be made honorary captain for life and the DM role should in fact now be named after him.
"Where do you play Makelele? "
"The Henderson. "
Job done, sorted and everyone lives happily forever after.

19 Sep 2017 22:03:54
So what is our priority Kev? Didn't one of the Eds continually tell us that Klopp promised the title to FSG who have backed him in the transfer market.
When is this title coming?
Actually when is a really good tilt at the title coming because unless he changes formation we will be way off the pace with the current set of centre backs.

19 Sep 2017 22:24:46
{Ed025's Note - how dare them beat liverpool kev, don't these little teams read the bloody history books mate. they should have been "battered".
===================

I am not sure what are you on about . most people here are critical of our team's performance and rightly so, there is very little we should've one outright posts . Yes; Well done to Leicester, they were n't exactly brilliant either, but they manufactured a win out of nothing, and that's what good teams do, all they needed is 8 chances to score 2 when we wasted 21.

{Ed025's Note - its pertaining to a post earlier today roy, where kev and harry were saying how liverpool should be "battering teams like burnley" which i thought was very disrespectful mate..

19 Sep 2017 22:39:47
Mcgoveb, changes his formation to what exactly? Any suggestions? Our system works attacking wise even tho, we are not taking our chances right now and that needs fixing BUT again, you want the title and so do the rest of us but you have to take everything in context as Klopp is building the team and it takes time which I know, is poison for fans. he has Naby coming in and VVD prolly coming in as well. the blocks are being put in place gradually.

Klopp is in it for the long haul and that is the reality, whether we like it or not. Also, Klopp will find better clubs than LFC (Bayern, Barcelona etc. ) after he leaves BUT will we find a better manager than Klopp right now? Keep that in mind when frustration kicks in.

20 Sep 2017 06:34:23
Mcgoveb,
The priority is to stay as long in every competition that we can.
The cup we went out of last night was the least prioritised competition of the lot though, bar the Asia and Audi Cups this season :)
It is a shame that the younger players may not now see a lot of game time or as much if they got through but Leicester away is always going to be a difficult tie.
I personally am not worried about it bar what it does to morale to players who are suffering already with lack of confidence and the likes as well as for the younger players who lose some game time as mentioned above.
If we beat them on Saturday which I have no doubt we can do, then last night becomes nothing but a bad memory really.
I'm obviously not a psychic mate, I can't answer your questions especially the ones tinged with slight anger/ frustration, but what I can tell you is that we have a proven head coach/ manager who is doing what he can to fix/ rectify our issues.
I'm personally still delighted he's our manager and have faith in him.
I can't tell you what he said in private conversations with Mike Gordan, John W Henry or Tom Warner, nobody can unless they were in the room so that is hearsay at the moment.
It's an unlikely thing that we win the league in the next couple of years, but who knows?!
Didn't Leicester win it about 15 months ago, which just shows you that it can be done?
Heck even Everton might go on a run and win it ( I'm obviously not 100% serious on that last part mate :) ) .
Long season ahead, don't hit the panic button yet.

19 Sep 2017 21:28:29
40 million ox chamberlain may as well have brought Helen Chamberlain.

{Ed025's Note - i told you that as well..

19 Sep 2017 21:36:38
Yeah he's not had the best game!

19 Sep 2017 21:36:49
He's absolutely pants totally wasted 40 million on a very average at best player.

19 Sep 2017 21:45:30
Give the guy a chance.

19 Sep 2017 21:41:41
Yes and None listened you Ed025. I am struggling what are his hidden POTENTIAL people keep murmuring on the site.

{Ed025's Note - search me harry mate..

19 Sep 2017 21:41:48
Let's hope he improves, Woodburn is out shining him atm in my view.

{Ed025's Note - hes a better player DH..

19 Sep 2017 21:53:20
He's hopeless. Much rather of gotten gray. At least he's young and still hasn't had two major knee injuries.

19 Sep 2017 22:00:47
So he should be binned after one game, right? Typical LFC fan.

19 Sep 2017 21:25:57
Feel sorry for Danny Ward.

He's looked confident, good with his feet and made a few saves but absolutely nothing he can do about the goals.

Totally let down by the defence and midfield (again! )

Heading out of the cup on the first round (again! ) and not sure where we go from here. This is the team Klopp has built and it is lightweight, soft centred, lacks leadership and is unable to defend!

19 Sep 2017 21:29:22
Couldn't agree more.

19 Sep 2017 21:32:39
3rd round 😉.

19 Sep 2017 21:36:28
No leaders anywhere on the park. Taking Couts off so early gave them hope. Poor game management today. No respect for Leicester. Poor defence. Average midfield.

19 Sep 2017 21:46:46
Get a grip. I've never been less bothered about losing a game. Saturday is all that matters.

19 Sep 2017 21:49:19
Very very very lightweight. only positives Robertson. And ings coming back in. I don't give a fcuk what anyone says we are great at attacking but we just ain't got anyone to Finnish it off like lukaku. aguero. Jesus. Kane. alli. firmino is awesome BUTTTT is not a striker. sturridge pace has gone completely. my only hope is ings can stay fit cause this boy is a goal scorer and doesn't stop working. Danny ward is our no1 surely klopp can see the other 2 boys are struggling big time with confidence.

19 Sep 2017 21:39:17
Even after this defeat Ward has done enough for me tonight to think he should be our first choice keeper.

19 Sep 2017 22:05:19
Jimblelfc, give it a rest, ok? With the team we put out, you have to have known that we could lose the game, right? If you wanna moan, have at it BUT enough with the digs as it is not warranted.

19 Sep 2017 22:27:59
Jayden, Ward has only played one game so not annoiting him yet. He and Karius are better than Migs, that much is clear.

19 Sep 2017 22:32:45
Bingo how am I smearing him. I've just said he did enough to be the no 1 in my eyes.

19 Sep 2017 21:23:48
Klopps biggest issue is his substitutes are often wrong and at the wrong time Coutinho for woodburn is a substitute you make at 75 minutes when you're 2.0 up. We do have a smaller squad but for a team who hasn't really worn anything for a while we shouldn't be turbinn our noses up at a league cup. Chillwall doesn't look all that he's done nothing but hold people, Flanagan has the heart of a lion but lacks ability.

19 Sep 2017 21:27:41
We are terrible at the minute. the bad transfer window we've just had is being highlighted massively at the minute.

19 Sep 2017 21:42:49
AOC has massive confidence issues I think he has potential but doesn't show it enough and with him lacking confidence when backs against the ropes he's not much use as you saw today. I'm still unconvinced by Henderson, grujic shows glimpses but is always a lunge risk. Until the goal the defence didn't look TOO bad. Most of our chances come from our left back. I love klop I think he's great but often I've noticed the substitutions tend to be wrong or done at the wrong time and end out costing us, he looks to be feeling the pressure hopefully we shake this funk. I am.

19 Sep 2017 21:57:32
Kalels, no Klopp? . no hope in hell of Van Dijk.

19 Sep 2017 22:10:07
You are aware that Cou is not good to play a full 90mins, right? He played 45 mins to get more sharpness and he did indeed look good as LC had no answer for him. Woodburn came on and played well too. If you think Klopp was going to rik his top players just to win a game in a Cup very few big teams care about then you are deluding yourself. We lost, it hurts BUT nothing more than that. We move on.

19 Sep 2017 21:22:22
Seems like every single half chance we give an opponent they score from. Our players just do not seem to be putting their bodies on the line when defending anymore.

19 Sep 2017 21:36:36
They don't have any heart.

They don't defend as a team and there is no leadership. This leads to chaos at the back and us shipping goal after goal.

19 Sep 2017 21:43:29
As soon as we concede one we look dreadful and panic instead of playing the game we're good at and attacking to get us back in the game.

19 Sep 2017 21:20:06
Same old story. chance after chance but not converted and they score. going to be a familiar story this season. Poor game. couts looked ok and robertson had a good first half. Henderson poor again. sorry but I don't rate him. sure will have the hendo brigade out in full force but I'm with eds 25, he's poor. Another season of winning nowt.

{Ed025's Note - i try to enlighten people diamond, but they just wont listen mate..

19 Sep 2017 21:32:26
Ha ha. maybe u can enlighten klopp mate. seems clueless.

19 Sep 2017 21:45:19
The big give away is would Henderson get in to any of the top 7s midfield? No can/ wiji/ Coutinho are far more likely to. He's a Liverpool player so I'll support him but I buy my tickets, buy my nephews the kits etc and so I am, as are we all, entitled to an opinion and mine is that he is not good enough.

19 Sep 2017 21:49:44
Klopp is clueless? Stop embarrassing yourself.

19 Sep 2017 21:54:48
Oh go away sirhanks u fool. I'm entitled to my opinion and so far this season he's done nothing apart from one good win against a poor arsenal team. I meant clueless 2n. He took our best player off at half time, not sorted defence. so u stop embarrassing yourself.

19 Sep 2017 22:12:58
It's becoming boring and tedious. We lost so it must be Hendo's fault. When we win, he gets no credit. We get it. Change the record as we are learning saying Klopp is clueless, Wenger has been hammered in the EFL Cup for years playing a young team each time. Is he clueless too? Embarrassing post. nothing from such pathetic posts. As for.

20 Sep 2017 14:16:48
Bingo red, you know what, I can't stand posts like your one. Self important b. s. what makes u think your opinion is better than anyone else's? This site is about opinions and debate and not belittling other people's so get off your high horse. Klopp has been clueless regarding our defence or have u been on a different planet for the last couple of years. And as it happens wenger is pretty clueless at the moment. ask arsenal fans. as for hendo, again opinion. but for me he has been poor this season. . Just an opinion of course.

19 Sep 2017 20:39:44
Good to see the fans sing Danny wards name 👏🏼.

19 Sep 2017 20:24:11
Hi eds. Very quick question.
What would you do about our gk situation 1 short term and 2 long term?
Personally I see no harm giving ward a chance short term. Long term if he hasn't done we'll enough bring in a new gk and let 1 of ours go. Best case. He does the job, seems assured and stays no1 for a good few seasons.

{Ed025's Note - i would get rid of migs, sign butland, and let the other 2 clowns fight for the back up spot boswell..

19 Sep 2017 20:49:54
I can tell by your subtle subtext, you don't rate karius or ward then?

{Ed025's Note - not really mate..

19 Sep 2017 22:15:31
Not a fan of Butland. I'll bin Migs and have Ward and Karius battle it out as they are both much better than Migs.

19 Sep 2017 19:39:38
I hate to say it but I fear for our defence against their front two tonight Hope I'm wrong.

19 Sep 2017 21:23:44
Well I wasn't wrong we are very poor I fear klopp is under pressure.

19 Sep 2017 18:52:52
flanagan rightback, gomez centerback. let's see how this turns out because I like the sound of it.

19 Sep 2017 18:25:36
All the sky pundits have us down to lose tonight. God I hope we win would love to batter a team at the min just to get confidence back up.

19 Sep 2017 14:42:43
a bit off topic, started with coaching this summer and doing my badges in switzerland. any tips books that are like a must read?
thanks lads
hope some of the fringe players give klopp some selection headache for the weekend.

{Ed001's Note - I can't think of any books, but I would recommend the Way Of Champions podcast, which is all about coaching, though not limited to football alone.}

19 Sep 2017 15:06:02
Fair play armendn. Good luck pal.

19 Sep 2017 15:12:00
Think grow rich by Napolian Hill.

19 Sep 2017 15:29:51
thanks for the quick answers eds and lads.

19 Sep 2017 15:39:09
It's not really a coaching book, but a great insight into what it takes to be the best.

Quiet Genius by Ian Herbert is a good read though. It's about Bob Paisley for anyone else interested.

19 Sep 2017 15:49:32
Not a tip to pass exams but one piece of advice got from a professional GK coach - don't finish your warm up by using your starting goalkeeper for shooting practice.

Aside from it potentially ending with him getting injured, (try standing in front of a battering from all sides of shots in quick succession), you can potentially really mess up his confidence right before the match by doing it. Use a sub if you have them or one of the coaches/ parents instead, it will also help the kids who are shooting. Try to finish the keeper's warm up with positives and a high note.

19 Sep 2017 16:19:21
I found the goblet of fire is a great sporting book.

19 Sep 2017 16:58:59
Good luck, man. Hopefully, you can offer some tips as to what coaches consider when they make the decisions they make cos everything is NEVER as it seems, clearly.

19 Sep 2017 20:44:42
thanks very much guys. i've been thrown a bit into the cold water, coaching a senior side from my local club and there are already things that you would have thought of as a player. but i'm really excited about it.

{Ed025's Note - good luck with it mate..

19 Sep 2017 21:52:50
thanks ed025, like your input in the liverpool page, just not after a loss:P
good luck with the meltdown the next hours/ days, surely as a blue you can see the funny side;)

{Ed025's Note - i never delight in a merseyside team losing mate..

19 Sep 2017 13:54:09
Hi Ed91, they haven't got a page, so I thought I would just post here as I'm interested in your opinion.

What do you think about Huddersfield's decision to close the academy, especially the timing of it, with the club surely boosting local interest and becoming more attractive to the young player now they are in the premiership?

{Ed001's Note - I don't think we have an Ed91 so I am going to assume you typoed 01, though it could be Ed02 just as easily if it is a typo!

It is quite simple, the academy system as it is only benefits the mega wealthy and they have to do something else. Whether their development squad will work out or not, I have no idea, but they have to do something different.}

19 Sep 2017 14:47:41
Wow! That's a shame if you ask me. Something was amiss financially?
Nothing more satisfying in football for me than to see local talent come through.

{Ed001's Note - there are more and more clubs giving up on the academies due to the EPPP (I think that's the right acronym). I can see there being many more academies that are unaffiliated to clubs in the future, similar to how the Glenn Hoddle Academy worked. They are basically just fighting for the scraps dropped by the big clubs.}

19 Sep 2017 14:48:48
I remember ed91. Was a top bloke, why did he stop posting?

{Ed001's Note - oh yes, you are right we did have an Ed91! I wasn't sure. At my age it is about all I can do to remember what number I am.}

19 Sep 2017 15:34:59
He stopped posting shortly after Klopp took the Liverpool job. Perhaps Ed091 was in fact Jürgen himself!

19 Sep 2017 15:48:34
Ah right, thanks.
Vardy has something similar I think for younger lower league players who don't quite make it if memory serves.
They need a chance too and sometimes a 2nd or 3rd chance.
Everyone develops at a different age.
So many quality players who nearly didn't make it but did in the end luckily and through perseverance.
Vardy himself of course, Ian Wright, David Platt etc. just off the top of my head.
There's probably only a small percentage of players who've never been rejected by a club at some point.
Biggest one for me was Denis Irwin at Leeds I think it was.
Arguably one of the most underrated and consistent players the PL has ever seen.

{Ed001's Note - you are correct, he does. I believe one of the players from it joined an EFL club during the summer.

Irwin is one of the best players the PL has ever seen as well.}

19 Sep 2017 16:00:49
My son was on a football camp in the summer, most of the 50 odd kids there had been in a professional academy, none were still in one, most were in the 10-14 age bracket, the churn rate can be really high. Realistically take a look at the 16-20 year olds in most pro clubs, it isn't the hot bed of local talent you think. Many will have been released by a higher level or bigger club's academy, or snapped up from a smaller club, rather than developed from within. Or the usual brought in from the manager's home country. Club's use foundations (which I wouldn't exactly call stellar coaching levels from what I've seen) to cover their commitments to the community. Plus certainly around where I am, the scouting is lazy and poor, I've seen really good kids playing at bottom level league/ clubs who no one is watching and kids no better (or worse) than them getting into academies or trials because they're at the right club or know the right person. You also get big clubs hoovering up talent into the void between foundation and academy, where they keep them hanging around until they develop or are definitely not good enough, Chelsea have done that. Put Chelsea in front of most kids, even if it is sub academy stuff and they'll take that over someone like Brentford or Wimbledon offering them an academy place. In some cases so they can claim to their mates they're in Chelsea's academy. Just from my perspective but the whole thing seems a bit screwed up these days.

{Ed001's Note - you have to be careful what you say, but I totally agree with you and have been regularly called nasty things for suggesting that these coaches with all their badges have not improved matters. At least in the past kids were being coached by people who were enthusiastic and wanted to be there. Now they are just there until something better comes along, they want it to be a career but you don't earn until you get to the higher levels, so a lot of them have a chip on their shoulder thinking they are too good to be at that level. However you try telling them anything or discussing anything with them and all you get is 'how many coaching badges do you have?' That is all they ever have as a comeback, followed by name calling. You can't question them at all. That is the sole reason why the article on youth academies I was putting together I have put aside as it is difficult to be fair when most of the people you speak to involved have just been such pricks. One was a 'coach educator' for the FAW as well.

I have been trying to find out what the failure rate for coaching badge courses actually is, to find out how difficult it is to get them but so far not been able to find out. However, I have yet to find anyone who has failed one, so I am beginning to think any talentless moron could get a coaching badge simply by putting in the time and money! That worries me as they are working with impressionable kids. There is a reason why you need a high failure rate if you are trying to produce the highest quality coaches. It seems like the badges are just a money making scheme for the English FA sadly.}

19 Sep 2017 16:07:00
True, hard to say but irwin was a real unsung hero. Never missed a pen. Pl legend.

19 Sep 2017 17:26:58
I'm still waiting for Ed91's input.

19 Sep 2017 17:56:55
Irwin didn't get rejected did he.

19 Sep 2017 19:31:28
By Leeds Ron yes.

19 Sep 2017 13:22:17
I've just read that dom solanke and Joe gomez have been nominated for the European "Golden boy" award! It's a 25 man short list. Fantastic achievement for the lad's.

19 Sep 2017 13:24:46
That's very impressive.
Congrats to both!

19 Sep 2017 14:02:41
And Ed025 thinks Valencia is better than Gomez 😉 damn these peaky bluenoses and their MOTD fever.

Joking aside, i reckon we have 2 future starters there. Add in Woodburn and Arnold and it makes for some exciting times ahead.

19 Sep 2017 14:18:21
Yeah looks good mk. Robertson and keita are pretty fresh too.

19 Sep 2017 14:54:29
And Lovren, Klavan and Mignolet too. oh wait wrong thread haha!
This is the positive one 😂.

19 Sep 2017 15:57:52
Surprised at Joe Gomez making that list. I'm delighted but surprised. Wouldn't of thought he has played enough. Solanke makes sense due to what he did at the U20 for England.

19 Sep 2017 17:14:28
Congrats to our boys and another feather in the cap for LFC.

19 Sep 2017 12:51:25
Ed001 if you were in charge who would be your No1 keeper for the 1st team mate and how long of a run would you give them?

{Ed001's Note - it really depends. It would not be Mignolet though and they would get as long as it felt necessary to be sure they were the right choice. It would be a lot more than 10 games that much is defo. If you mean what would I have done in the summer, I would have allowed Ward to go on loan again with Huddersfield for experience and given Karius the chance for the season. Now Ward has been kept back though it seems pointless to do so if you are not going to give him games. It is a bit of a mess of Klopp's making to be honest.}

19 Sep 2017 13:32:44
True. I don't blame klopp for the defence as much as some do because we know he wanted vvd so he knows there are issues. But the GK situation, he has really made a rod for his own back. Why keep ward and then not even give him the shirt for league cup? I can understand wanting two good keepers but why does he need three? I think this situation will be sorted before next season, this season is a trial but how does ward prove himself without getting a shot?

{Ed001's Note - it is bizarre but we just have to hope he knows what he is doing. He did develop a fair few players in the past so maybe it is part of a long term plan. Only thing I can think of is he wants to make Ward determined to prove Klopp wrong and so work harder.}

19 Sep 2017 14:06:04
I hope so ed. There are a few things that suggest klopp is planning for long long term, keita coming next year, keeping ward at Liverpool and having faith in youngsters like dom solanke joe gomes and trent Alexander arnold, who are undoubtedly the future of liverpool. I'm really glad klopp is thinking in the long term because although some of his decisions seem odd sometimes, I think he is a brilliant manager and coach. I think he will win the league. It may not be this season, although I think we have a chance, but next year when we have keita and hopefully VVD or another high class cb, and the gk situation is sorted, we will be a force to be reckoned with.

{Ed001's Note - he is certainly planning on being here, so fingers crossed as a long term stay will mean he has won things!}

19 Sep 2017 14:10:15
Thank's for the reply Ed but like you said I really hope that JK know's what he's doing.

{Ed001's Note - only time will tell on that.}

19 Sep 2017 17:21:52
Thanks for the info, Ed. I love Klopp and would not trade him for anyone BUT like you, the whole GK situation is a joke and he has to take the blame for that. Apart from that, you can see he has a plan for the long term and I know that is poison for a lot of fans BUT we have to stick with his plan cos well, he has taken us forward from where the Spoofer left us in 2015. Don't let the pathetic media tease you with their "Klopp has not improved LFC" crap as that is patently false.

We just need to support him as he knows where our issues are and they will be fixed BUT they will not be fixed in one window. If it was that easy, City with all the money literally on the planet, would have fixed their defence by now and even they can't do it. Keep the faith, lads!

19 Sep 2017 12:19:59
Afternoon all.
I have a question for the ed's and anyone else who would like to give their thoughts. When I first started to follow football in the early 2000's there seemed to be an abundance of top quality strikers all across Europe. That number seems to have diminished and 20 goal a year forwards seem to have become rarer (although players hitting extremely high numbers seems to have increased) . Do you think this is down to change in style? Players being asked to contribute to more phases of the game? Poor coaching and development? Or am I just looking back with too much nostalgia to that era.
Thanks for all the hard work you put into the site.

{Ed001's Note - I would suggest a mix of all of those factors. If you look at it without nostalgia and with the benefit of more viewing of the players, you would probably find there was not as many top quality strikers as you thought. However, I do think the changes in football generally have moved the game away from pure goal poachers at the top clubs. Look at Pep's insistence that his strikers do more than a Lineker goal hanging job. People just made space for goalscorers in the past, now they are asked to change or end up at smaller clubs who will make allowances to build around them.}

19 Sep 2017 12:45:25
It's turning into a team of 10 interchangeable midfielders.

19 Sep 2017 12:50:11
I've only really been a close follower of football since 2005 and even in that short space of time football has changed massively.

We have gone from a Cisse/ Torres type striker who wants to run in behind every time or have it put in the box, to Salah, Firmino and Mane who make and create their own chances, dovetailing and alternating positions throughout the game.

United when i first started watching had strikers like Solsjkaer, Van Nistelrooy and Saha. Proper poachers. Then we saw the development of Rooney as the United striking role became more independent and versatile. Now United ask their striker to run in behind, attack crosses, get involved the build up play and run the channels.

Arsenal had Henry and Bergkamp and to be honest i think Wenger was a bit of a visionary at that time because they are much more similar to modern strikers at top end clubs in that they created their own chances and Henry was comfortable pulling out wide to find spaces. That is probably why they were so successful though. They were years ahead of their time and British trained defenders hadn't seen players like that before.

The game is constantly evolving though and strikers are being asked to do more and more. That is how it should be though. Why should they get a free pass to goal hang and then take all the headlines? 11 players working hard for each other s better than 10 players and a man stood in the 6 yard box waiting. You're basically down to 10 men when out of possession!

19 Sep 2017 12:59:37
Spot on, Ed. The so-called CF/ Poacher thingy is so old school as managers require their strikers to do more than just be a lamp post. See Benteke at Plalace. He is awful as he offers nothing more than the lamp post option. Look at progressive managers like Leow.

In the Confed Cup this summer, he mostly played Lars Stindl, an ACM from 'Gladbach (a damn good one at that) as the striker, which allowed players like Goretzka, Brandt etc to take on the spaces he would create whenever he dropped deep to cause havoc in the oppo's defence. City, Barcelona (esp. under Pep), Spurs and LFC play the same way and that is the way football is going attacking-wise and it is working for all these teams, until something new comes up.

19 Sep 2017 13:11:32
Yeah, agree with ed, it's an interesting question though. I wonder if you looked at how much goals are spread about the team ie. Midfield wingers etc scoring goals and not just the strikers now compared to early naughties. I think with social media, like this site (best football site easy) that people have become more critical of players now that fans have the platform to voice their views.

Every year the premiership throws up a few perhaps unlikely names in the race for the golden boot. Last season josh king for example. Anyone have any thoughts on who may surprise us this season?

{Ed001's Note - to be fair we also get to see a lot more of them to critique. I can remember when it was only going to Anfield or MOTD plus cup finals on TV.}

19 Sep 2017 13:19:39
managers are forever changing systems and asking players to play out of posistion.

19 Sep 2017 14:45:54
Absolutely class post MK! You know your football lad.

19 Sep 2017 14:47:27
True ed. I only found out on Saturday that I could go on redit and stream the game for free.

{Ed001's Note - I have never used reddit to be honest.}

19 Sep 2017 14:50:22
A bit left field but I think salah may be in that race for golden boot. That really proves mk and eds view that football has progressed and not only the CF scores goals. Salah must be what? 2nd behind aguero atm?

19 Sep 2017 16:00:56
All them players would have adapted with the game.

Denis Bergkamp was an absolute genius.

19 Sep 2017 16:22:14
Ed I'm such a technophobe, on reddit (listening to radio at the same time) I couldn't get it going, by the time I worked it out there was five minutes left!

Have BT sport to watch Leicester game tonight and I know how to get redit going now for next game.

{Ed001's Note - one of the reasons I chose to move here was that I could get to watch more games than ever. There is every league just about in the world covered on TV here. There is usually ten different matches on at any moment on the various sports channels.}

19 Sep 2017 16:23:46
Interesting responses everyone, thank you. On a slightly different note, I've noticed Ed001 that you've said players are over coached now and struggle to think for themselves. (Apologies if I'm miss quoting you) . With this in mind it's interesting seeing that players are asked to contribute to more phases of play, which you'd think would require players to be able to make decisions and be able to adapt to situations. It's almost like the current methods of coaching are at odds with what's asked for in a tactical sense and what's needed on the pitch. Do you think that's one of the biggest problems we have at the club currently? Playing a system which requires a lot of in game intelligence but players being overly reliant on instruction? Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - yes mate I do think it is a problem. Cruyff used to emphasise total football, which required the players to figure it out for themselves. Nowadays you have someone like Guardiola who micromanages everything at every moment, even in training. That is held up by some coaches as great coaching, but I am guessing that is because they have never had to work with someone constantly breathing over their shoulder and telling them what to do. There is nothing worse and it removes your confidence in your own ability to make decisions when someone is constantly telling you that you have made the wrong one and you should do it their way instead.}

19 Sep 2017 17:44:35
Spot on, 123 and Ed. Coaches and systems are killing the game right now. Take the GK positionf or example. In the old days, he was considered to be the defensive coach on the pitch. He commanded the respect of his teammates and that of his area. He was the one who directed defensive affairs during set piece defending and he would give a right bullocking to anyone who screwed up, The coaches delegated responsibility to the players as well esp. the experienced ones. GK's like Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon where like coaches on the pitch and HATED conceding goals.

Now, the coaches are like micro managers as Ed said, who want control over their players, turning them into robots and that is why certain teams can't defend a set piece cos they have only one way of defending against them and the manager gives no room for outside input from the players. Why? Cos the managers are such insecure snowflakes who can't stand being challenged by players. Hence, we have what we have today as in, brainless robots as players.

19 Sep 2017
New image uploaded to the
Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled, Oh dear

19 Sep 2017 10:19:14
Brilliant.

18 Sep 2017 23:36:50
My 2c on striker and GK

Not a massive fan of rotating GKs but it's clear in my mind Klopp is easing Karius into no.1 and keeping Ward for when Migs eventually departs. I'm guessing he's being careful given the history on Karius but hopefully sorted by Jan, otherwise latest next summer.

On strikers, Firmino has been outstanding. Yes he's a different option to Lukaku, but with Mane and Salah able to play in behind, he's been the fulcrum to our play and making chances for those around him left, right and centre. He also hasn't missed too many chances himself, the real issue has actually been how many Salah has missed, or Gini, Can, Coutinho etc. but then also look at how many Salah has scored or made before criticising. he's sensational. Frankly we don't need to change things there. What we do need though is someone in the last 30mins to unlock a packed defence with a presence in the box. the answer is obvious and it's Solanke, we just need Klopp to get the substation on earlier and drop Firmino deeper into a no.10 position earlier IMO. My actual worry is Sturridge though, he plays a similar game to firmino dropping deeper all the time to get on the ball, but while he's slightly more clinical, he's less effective on the ball or pressing defensively. Not sure what the long term plan is with Sturridge but hopefully he hits form soon.

19 Sep 2017 00:20:30
Sturridge has not been given enough time but when he has he has not been all that impressive. I hope this is just getting the rust off but if not then I fear his time is over. I agree all you said. Bobby to me critical to this offense and like another point out the net gain of goals is zero even if u bring in a top striker because a top striker will likely not create what Bobby does.

19 Sep 2017 00:48:10
Good critical post SGRED. I'd have to agree with everything you've said mate. I think you're right about the gk situation. With sturridge, he was here long before klopp and was the poster boy when the German arrived, I think he has been fair with Danny but unfortunately, Danny doesn't always have the work rate that klopp demands. Dannys attitude has impressed me, when it could've been easy to hand in a transfer request and move on the guy chose to stay and fight for his place against the odds. He is a useful player to have in the squad as he offers the option of 442. Wouldn't be surprised if we switched to that formation in the latter stages of cup games or ucl, the way we did at the end of last season when we simply had to win. It is a more cautious formation. I dunno, it's an idea. He is a great impact sub too, I don't buy this "he has lost it" his sort of skill is something you're born with.

{Ed001's Note - the same Danny that chased back 50 yards to win the ball back against Burnley when the midfield had once again gone missing does not have the work rate? It is nothing to do with work rate that Klopp doesn't use him, it is the injuries and the fact that Firmino plays so well there.}

19 Sep 2017 06:15:40
We had another poor transfer window and we are getting exactly what we deserve.

Defence is still a mess and the majority of goals scored against us are from defensive errors rather than attacking excellence.

Until we sort the defence out we aren't going to challenge.

19 Sep 2017 06:20:25
I feel though Firmino create chance we need a clinical finisher. So far best finisher we have is Mane. But Mane is play on wings as half striker half midfielder. Been watching Jean-Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting, not saying he is extremely good but I feel he is right mould of physical finisher we need. Next is Gabiadini.

{Ed001's Note - seriously? You have not watched either much then have you! Choupo-Moting could barely score in the Bundesliga and Gabbiadini could barely even get a game in Serie A. Both are not good enough to replace Sturridge on the bench, let alone to improve our first team.}

19 Sep 2017 06:48:57
Lavers, it's not just the defence though.
They can't be blamed for the gaping holes in front of them in midfield can they?!
No protection there at times, so they're overwhelmed at points in matches.
The midfield needs work too.
There's 3 of them there in the middle of midfield, where do they go to leave such holes?!
It's like there's no communication there.
"You go, I'll sit".
"I'll go forward, you stay back"?
It's like they speak different languages or don't communicate, last time I checked Henderson, Wijnaldum and Can all can speak English :)

{Ed001's Note - so why on earth do you want to open up more gaps by playing a striker up top, instead of Firmino, meaning someone will have to drop out from midfield and you lose Firmino's pressing from the front!}

19 Sep 2017 07:01:03
Never mentioned Firmino or the forwards here.
That was in a completely separate thread from yesterday that was put to bed yesterday?!

19 Sep 2017 07:11:38
Drop one of the midfielder preferably Henderson and play a natural holding player. Numbers looks the same but the midfiled and defense become more stable. So there is absolutely no chance of any error in communicaton!
Ed01, you got to prioritize the article on midfileders mate.

{Ed001's Note - so we need two players just to sort out an attack that is already doing well?}

19 Sep 2017 07:15:13
I'll answer your question though of course, apologies for the staggered response but I'm at work.
I'm suggesting that an out and out Striker is more useful in games such as Saturday's.
Not against the bigger, better teams.
There are more goalmouth scrambles against Burnleys than against Uniteds of this league so a poacher would be there to gobble up a goal or two in those games.
Top goalscorers tend to score multiple braces or hattricks against the lesser teams.
Firminio is highly unlikely to do that, not saying he's a worse or better player than Javier Fernandez/ Lewandowski/ Ian Rush for example, but they are more likely to take the chances presented to them in these games to finish teams off with deep lying midfields or defences or both.
They won't stop Burnley as an example scoring, heck they might even score two against us if we play a poacher but we might win 3-2 with a goal or two coming from the goalmouth scramble panic that happens in these games more often than not. Think Solanke hitting the bar from 3 or 4 yards out. Would a top poacher have missed that? Rush for example? Not knocking Solanke, he's just turned 20 and is learning his trade. He could be amazing. I'm talking proven poachers.
I can't believe I've gone back to this discussion again lol.
I'll be sacked at this rate.

{Ed001's Note - would a top poacher be happy to only play against the Burnleys for one. No, he wouldn't, so we are going to be left with an average (at best) one, who would not be an improvement. So why would you bother? Secondly, the issue was not that we couldn't score, we did score, the issue was the chances we gave away were such poor defending. Keep a clean sheet and that game is a win, as they would never have had anything to hold onto once we scored our first and they have to come out a little. We do not need to mess with the attack. It works. The defence is our problem.}

19 Sep 2017 07:35:55
Look I agree we should keep a clean sheet against Burnleys of this league but we both know this is not happening with this defence and midfield so we need to use our stength - attack.
We should be able to outscore them.
To only score one goal against Burnley is embarrassing.
We should aim to blow these teams away, no disrespect to Burnley but that's the truth and we shouldn't aim lower.
We could have gotten Hernandez in the summer for example, he'd have been able to start about 12 or 13 home league matches alone and about 10 away matches that we'd be expected to win and would be chasing goals as usual.
He'd also be able to come off the bench in others if say we're a goal behind at the Emirates with 20 or 30 minutes to go.
He'd have gotten plenty of minutes.
Solanke could come on to replace him (a poacher) if starting or come on with him if we need something different in a game like the one I mentioned (losing at the Emirates with half an hour left) so his development is halted.
That's all he's getting currently anyway.
There's no end to this debate and no proven winner as Klopp didn't buy a poacher and is unlikely to until the summer.
But just to finish, we should be hammering Burnley, we might have done with a proven goalscorer upfront. We didn't, we scraped a draw in the end, so what's the harm in trying something new next time?
Look at the reverse fixture last season, we absolutely dominated them like I have never seen a game dominated before and lost 1-0.
You literally couldn't make it up.
So this is not new territory for us, we regularly struggle to put games to bed. You surely can admit that. So why not try to end it like we did with Hoffenheim at home? Nice and early, put to bed and nobody even cares that they scored twice.

{Ed025's Note - thats the problem kev, what gives liverpool the right to be hammering burnley?, are you that aloof that you think burnley should not really be able to grace the same field as the mighty liverpool? maybe its not just the supporters but the players as well and thats why your record against the lesser lights is so poor, it makes you sound very shallow and shows massive disrespect to other teams and that might explain why your popularity among other supporters is so low mate..

19 Sep 2017 08:21:29
Burnley this season have already beaten Chelsea away, drawn with Spurs away, and now drawn with us away. So should we be blowing them away?

I'm not getting back into the striker debate with you, but Ed025 has a very good point. It is arrogance of the highest order to believe we have a divine right to smash teams like Burnley. We should be beating them on paper, but the Premier League is tough and there are very rarely any easy games. You can play so well that it looks easy, but nobody in this league rolls over week in week out like in Spain or France. That is why all the best managers want to be here. To challenge themselves. I'm convinced it is also why some of the best players in the world don't want to be here. Messi and Neymar are self indulged brats who wouldn't be able to cope with having to put in a bit of hard work every single week. They enjoy strolling to victory for a very large pay check. Even players who could cope like Suarez, Bale, Ronaldo etc still whinged and whined to go to Spain where 32 games a season were absolute bankers, and they only had to put in maximum effort in about league 3-6 games a season.

The Prem is unforgiving though mate. We'll lose or draw again at some point and you will have to come to terms with that. The finances are much more evenly split in England so we are getting to the stage where there won't be any average teams and it'll get even harder. I can see someone winning the league with less than 80 points in the near future.

19 Sep 2017 08:42:24
I agree on the GK situation it seems to be how Klopp does it. He eases people in instead of throwing them in at the deep end. He tried that with Karius initially and look how that worked out. Trent has a blinder against The Hoff then is rested. Woodburn is consistently on the bench but rarely gets on causing people to question Klopp. Then he plays for Wales and everyone's sees why. You have to ease these kids in or you could ruin them. Klopp knows the players better than we do so I'll leave that to him.

19 Sep 2017 08:45:46
You talk all day about the need of a leader and character in the dressing room and on the pitch and then you also want us to be very nice and polite to the likes of Burnley's and Watford and drop 2 points at home and wave the hands across!

If yo are so happy with 1 point against Burnley and Watford why there is a discussion on this?

By that logic we have no divine right to beat Leicester today or on Saturday. Let's all be happy now!

19 Sep 2017 08:48:16
Leave everything to Klopp! Why do we even have a discussion!

19 Sep 2017 08:53:03
There's no easy games in the prem, That's what makes it exciting,
Any team not on top of their game can be beaten by by any other team,

Defensive errors will get punished in this league,

So the more mistakes a team make
The more goals they will concede.

Its Stating the obvious I know but I would try to sign 2 centre halves and a RB as well,

19 Sep 2017 09:12:33
My posts are not being put up because I pointed out some valid points on a recent reply to a comment of mine, so I'm bowing out of this. Good luck tonight lads, but what's the point in playing if we feel like we have no right to win? We can't draw because the cup doesn't allow it so why not ring Leicester and tell them we'll no show so that they can win - makes sense based on the argument put to me above. Unbelievable!

{Ed001's Note - don't talk soft and grow up. Ed025 is not about to answer your posts aimed at him. You have not posted a single valid point yet on this thread, just your obsession with fixing the only bit of our team that is working because you expected a win against Burnley. It seems to have escaped your attention that we did score and that our loss was down to not stopping them scoring, not because we were unable to score. I would be glad if you did stop banging on though, as it is a nonsense argument that smacks of spoilt children throwing their toys out of the pram after not getting their way. Boohoo we didn't win every game so four games in we want to change everything. It is ridiculous and I have no interest in this discussion at all. Please do not bother to reply to me, I do not want to waste any more time with this.}

19 Sep 2017 09:14:11
Personally think we would have lost both matches last year. Slight improvements in our attack going forward so I'd rather we didn't sacrifice that part of our play. It's a long time to the window though so I'd imagine klopp will try a few things (which will keep us scratching our heads) to shore up the defence. It's our job to be patient where possible. As for sturridge, I'd love if he stayed up top a little more and made runs through the defence instead of coming deep so often and allowing teams to get behind the ball. Perhaps his lack of laziness and attempting to be part of the play is where he's struggling. I also think firmino is fantastic but I'd love to see him deeper causing chaos with his vision and movement. He's doing a great job leading the line as it is but perhaps if there was a striker with better movement ahead- we could get the best out of him.

19 Sep 2017 09:41:58
I actually pointed out all that you mentioned in the posts that were not put up, but that's fine. Sure sure! I'll bow out as I don't see the point continuing. Was quite happy to debate with anyone but pointless when it goes to name calling and pigeon holing me as you have also done.
That's your prerogative to go low but it's not for me.

{Ed001's Note - oh whatever. There was no debate. It was a knee jerk reaction with no basis in reality from you and a few others that seem to live in a fantasy world where Liverpool have to rip up everything when they don't win a game. I really do not care if you like the truth or not, if you want to call it name calling and pigeon holing, fine, but that is just because you do not like the honest truth. You are making a knee jerk reaction and it is ridiculous. You talk about having pointed out things, but all you have done is regurgitate the same things in each and every post. It was nonsense when you started and it is just tired nonsense now.}

19 Sep 2017 09:49:46
Harry what the hell does having no leadership have to do with the fans learning to suck up a defeat and move on?

You do worry me at times buddy 😂

You are again missing the point though. Nobody is saying we shouldn't want to, and even target winning every single game. Every team should do that.

The point is, that you shouldn't start whinging and crying over a handful of games, start demanding a new manager, or to replace the striker for having an apparently off day, whilst he was on the left wing. You also shouldn't assume "we should be smashing Burnley". They are a Prem team who have already taken 3 major scalps this season. They will undoubtedly claim a few more before the season is out, and people just need to accept that Sturridge (6)and Coutinho (7) wasted a lot of chances that could've made it a demolition, and that we will go again. Our failure to score more had nothing to do with Firmino, or the system we played.

The season is so young that Newcastle and Huddersfield are European qualification places and Everton are in the relegation zone. There is no need to panic.

19 Sep 2017 10:03:06
Personally I think every time we concede a soft goal we sacrifice part of our attack. Basically it means our attack then needs to score more goals to achieve our targets. Take the Watford game? You don't think our attack would have appreciated us defending better at the death? You don't think our attackers would appreciate not having to score 3 away goals to get a point?

Secondly, take Man Utd. Do they look more threatening from midfield this season? Are they creating more chances?
Answer - YES.
Reason - They signed Matic and employed him as a holding midfielder. This allows Pogba or Mata or their wing backs to get forward without always worrying about the solidity at the back.

Thirdly - why should we be smashing Burnley? Because we have more resources? By that reasoning we'd be happy to be smashed by Chelsea or Man Utd then because they have more resources?
We should be aiming to win every game, but the reality is you have to earn the right to win a game, there are no forgone conclusions.

19 Sep 2017 10:47:36
It may be nonsense, it may be the truth. I am entitled to my opinion though.
I didn't regurgitate anything that was taken on board, most of what I said was misunderstood/ misread or selectively understood/ read. I am happy to debate with anyone including LFC or non LFC fans but I draw the line at when I'm pigeon holed as a certain type of personality or fan. Nobody knows each other here so it's just arrogant to do so. There are some people here who there is no talking to. Set in their ways, that's fine, nothing wrong with that in my eyes, but no need to get personal is there?! It's pathetic, name calling wins no debates. I'm not saying who, people can judge for themselves and see for themselves. No basis in reality? Mate, we have played 4 games this season in the league where the game didn't exactly go to plan did it? I won't name them as you know already what games. I could say you haven't given a reasonable argument based on reality either. Did we beat Watford? Did we beat Burnley? Did we even come close against City? Sure we beat Arsenal and that was a fantastic result and performance, but that was serviced by our style suiting that game and that's my argument. Horses for courses but most of you don't want to see that. You want to see, "oh let's change our whole tactic in a knee jerk reaction to a draw with Burnley. " That is not the case. Horses for courses. It's fine, persevere with the deep lying forward against the lower teams, we'll probably win most. But when a team is set up well to defend we'll not win as easy or at all. My simple argument is that we'll give ourselves a better chance to win these games if we try to keep a man in or around their box. That's not exactly guaranteeing goals obviously but statistically speaking, gives us a better chance to score more against what are considered (on paper/ by fans/ pundits/ experts) to be a lesser team, giving us a better chance to win. We can't keep clean sheets, so we may as well play to our strengths. Anyway, I'm done. I was done with this last night but was asked again above my reasons for a slight tweak of the system in certain games. I don't hold grudges and understanding someone's tone from posts/ texts is impossible and can be misunderstood easily, but what can't be misunderstood is the childish pigeon holing without warrant. If you think that's soft, that's your pointo of view, doesn't make it right. Usually someone who has no argument resorts to that type of behaviour, it's a simple psychological behaviour that is well known. I'll leave it at that.
Good luck.

19 Sep 2017 10:49:05
Irish kev. your posts are embarrassing mate, we have no divine right to beat the Burnley's of the league I hate that talk. If that was the case the game shouldn't go ahead they should just forfeit it? Saves everyone's time and money then? What about fa cup upsets that have happened? Should they not have happened because the so called bigger team has a divine right to win? It's what makes football so special. and especially the premier league! We all take the piss out of the SPL as it was a 2 horse race before the demise of Rangers. Would you rather a league like that? No, nor me!
Your arguments have no substance and you need to grow up a bit.

19 sep 2017 11:06:23
mate, nobody said we have a divine right to win against anybody.
do you read posts or just skim them? skim i bet.
i have said time and time again that we'd give ourselves a better chance of winning if we played with a striker on certain occasions. where in that do you see "we have a divine right to beat everybody? "
why are you posting with no debate or argument of your own, only slagging off my opinion blindly?
very constructive you were there if you're a kid mate yeah.
thanks and good bye.

19 Sep 2017 11:28:47
Kev, direct quote:

"We should be able to outscore them.
To only score one goal against Burnley is embarrassing. "

Your use of the term 'embarrassing' makes you come across as a little bit entitled mate. I'm not trying to get at you. But that does suggest you believe hat Burnley have no right to challenge us. Ron hits that point perfectly; if we should be blowing away Burnley based on stature/ resources, you cannot really moan that City blew us away as by the same logic, it would've been embarrassing for City to lose or draw to a team with about 10% of their budget. You also can't expect us to finish in the top 4 because on paper, we are about 6th or 7th based on resources.

Your choice of words was perhaps just poor. I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt as you don't generally come across as an arrogant poster. But your comments and lingering anger over the result does infer that you believe we have some kind of right to beat these teams massively. Like you say though, text can easily be misinterpreted.

19 Sep 2017 11:57:40
Olirish, I propose you just let this whole hing go as we are not getting anywhere here.

19 Sep 2017 11:47:19
Ed regarding sturridge, you are right of course about firmino being too good to drop hence ds not getting many games but I remember reading an article in the summer where klopp said he didn't want to turn sturridge into a winger who runs so many yards per match. So that only leaves one spot where, like you say Bobby is getting the nod. I was impressed with dannys tracking back however against Burnley. Do you think we will switch to 442 at all this year?

{Ed001's Note - it will depend on injury and form mate. I am sure we will have to at some point though, to get people into the side. It wasn't far off it against Burnley as Couts was playing on the left more often than not with Firmino playing off Studger for large periods.}

19 Sep 2017 12:34:00
It's your opinion mate, I respect it as always but like I said before, that is simply not the case.
Are you saying you didn't expect to beat that team on Saturday then?
We should be able to outscore Burnley, oh dear lord this is becoming a very silly discussion now.
If you don't think we should beat a team considered to be of a lesser quality than us by the general public, then what did you watch the match for?
To see us lose or draw?
I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, thank you for that.
Do you think we should win tonight or on Saturday?
Do you think we should win a PL match ever again in the future?
Not will we win, do you think we should win one in the future?
That's now what the discussion has come down to.
My wording of how I think if we play to our capabilities, we should beat Burnley with the squad we have.
How many Burnley players would make our first 11?
Not many, that is why I feel we should beat them more often than not.
If Saturday's result was a once in a month thing, it'd be fine by me. but it's almost on a weekly basis.
Look at our form from Jan to March/ April - did I moan then? Nope! Am I moaning now? Nope! I'm saying Burnley should have been put to the sword on Saturday but we lacked some ambition, not all ambition but some.
We are never going to agree on the Striker thing and that's fine by me but when I am pigeon holed with "Liverpool fans who are disliked by most other clubs", that's when I front up and will stand up for myself. Only some of my posts got through even though I never got personal with anyone in retaliation. I made valid points in my defence. It's ridiculous, but I won't hold a grudge as I know how it is here.
I'll go along with it but don't go personal and assume you know my motives when you couldn't possibly do. Not you personally MK, but in a general way to nobody specific.
I am happy to put this to bed again but the Welsh guy wants to argue for the sake of arguing now too.
Jump on the bandwagon.
If you disagree with an editor on here in a passionate debate, your post might not go up. This is what happened to me earlier, so what's the point?! There was no swearing or personal attacks, just a valid defence of myself but it wasn't allowed. If you don't agree with everything said by big brother, you're written off and slagged off as I was above. So I'm done with this convo now MK. Sorry!

19 Sep 2017 12:53:37
To just elaborate on my quote "To only score one goal against Burnley is embarrassing. " What I didn't add to that (and that is my own fault) is that it should be embarrassing for the players who have taken 35 shots and only scored once against a team who are expected to finish mid table to lower table - their own fans would probably snap your hand off if you offered them mid table status now. I have no real complaints about Sevilla. We were poor in the second half, I don't begrudge them their equaliser but I'd have hope/ expected us to win prior to that game too as we are a superior set of players in my eyes. I'm quite possibly wrong on that and maybe we're showing our true level, I don't know. You have hopes and aspirations for your team but expectancy is never too high in my head, I don't ever expect us to win a trophy at the start of a season but I hope we do. I do however expect us to win a single match against Burnley at home, maybe away from home I'd be okay with a hard fought draw but I don't think it's arrogance at all to expect your team who have aspirations to get a top 4 place to beat Burnley at home and I'm pretty sure an extremely high percentage of level headed fans (not just Liverpool fans) would think the same.
I am 100% done now. Apologies about the ridiculously long and apparently regurgitated posts, clearly I'm the only one who does that lol.
I didn't even want this debate. I thought it was bloody over yesterday, wow lol!
MK Scouser, you're a gent and I have no problem debating with you as I can see you're pretty level headed but just as stubborn as myself haha, which is all good with me.
Sayōnara.

{Ed001's Note - see that is the problem with text, one simple section can set a tone in someone's mind and make you sound completely different to what you intended. That one sentence did make you come across as extremely arrogant and entitled. Now it all sounds totally different and the whole conversation takes a different route.}

19 Sep 2017 12:58:49
Cheers for the reply ed01. I love the interchange in our team, when it works it is fantastic and must be very very hard to defend against as the opposition don't know for sure where the runs are coming from. It's frustrating when the midfield don't get it right though but I think we will come good in the end.

{Ed001's Note - if we could get a better balance in midfield it would make a huge difference. That is becoming a major problem to rank alongside the centre of defence and goalie. Hopefully putting Couts in there improves things as the other two will have to be more selective in their forward runs.}

19 Sep 2017 13:04:11
For those questioning the attack and calling for new faces in the attacking line up. The front three alone have scored 12 goals in seven games. That is all you need to know. We are scoring, it isn't a problem. Mo salah is actually on course to score near thirty goals this season. I doubt he will reach 30 but his goal to game ratio atm suggests he will. That tells me he is on form. End of argument.

19 Sep 2017 13:38:39
That's fair enough Ed001. But maybe if you're now aware of this, you can lighten up on me a bit like MK said, give me the benefit of the doubt.
Certainly not trying to bust anybody's you know what's.
I do write these novels with best intentions but as I said earlier, I'm at "work" so sometimes they're a little rushed and I can't put everything into it. I'm conscious of how long they are too so try to minimise as much as possible and hope that anyone reading takes them the way they're intended. I was an arrogant kid but I'm nearly 40, those days are long gone! Stubborn? Sure. Arrogant - I couldn't be now even if I wanted to be.
Good day one and all!
Glad we cleared up that mess a little.

{Ed001's Note - sorry I meant to apologise in my initial reply mate, I should have asked you to clarify it as I know it happens to me a lot when I am rushing through answering posts and miss bits out trying to rush. So I am sorry I was hard on you, I should have made sure as it is unlike you.}

19 Sep 2017 14:39:57
No worries brother.
No need for apologies at all.
Catch ya later.

19 Sep 2017 08:22:02
Just to clarify my previous post (I typo'd) . Solanke's progress would *not be halted as he only gets a few minutes here and there anyway.
I'm a pretty level headed fan actually, I'll give props to other clubs when due but Burnley are a lower half team realistically.
If you're telling me you don't expect to see a win for Liverpool when these two teams play currently (not necessarily forever, as things change) then you're either pulling my leg or on a wind up.
Liverpool's squad on paper is far superior to Burnley's. We're favourites to beat the Burnleys of the league every single time we play them and there's a reason for that.
All due respect mate, you don't know me or my personality so please don't pigeon - hole me generally or you're acting aloof towards me aren't you?! It's not very nice to suggest that about anybody. I'm an individual Liverpool FC supporter who thinks for myself not as a collective and I'm never disrespectful to any other club/ team, but I am optimistic and why shouldn't I be can you tell me?
Why shouldn't I expect my team to beat lower to mid table teams? We finished 4th last season and supposedly have improved over the summer. If you're telling me to not be optimistic and to hope/ expect to beat teams down the league from a season that finished 6 league matches ago, then I don't know what to tell you. It's a small team mentality and how do you expect to win any games without belief and optimism? Do you think Klopp goes into the dressing room and says "boys, I know we can't expect to beat Burnley today, but just do your best. " Seriously? Did I maybe just take you up wrong? It's early in the morning, I haven't had my coffee yet and so I might well have done. But I would never presume to label anyone the way I seemed to have been labelled above. This might be your site to edit and that's fine but if you label all your patrons here and pigeon hole or name call as I have seen previously without me provoking you (I was in a conversation with a=someone else if not mistaken? ), then this is not what I want to pass my time and I'm quite happy going forward for you to just ignore my posts or just flick on by them. If you have an issue with my opinion, that's fine, but don't label or pigeon hole me with LFC fans generally please. I respected you on all previous correspondence, I'd just ask for the same in return. There I took the bait and bit. I just don't see the reason for the labelling/ pigeon holing. I'm not a delusional LFC fan who ever thinks we'll win the league each season but I'm optimistic and hope we can beat the Burnleys of the league (again, to re-iterate - I mean the lower to mid table teams) .
Good luck!

{Ed025's Note - for one its not my site kev, and for two you are missing the point mate, my problem is that you are being aloof and disrespectful to a team like burnley who are the lifeblood of the league, its your terminology with statements like "we should batter burnley" that gets me, who the bloody hell are liverpool to treat teams like that, show some decorum and respect for gods sake and realize that it was actually burnley that battered you last season and your downfall was against the teams like them that cost you dear, i think i might be wasting my time so i will leave it with just one word...sigh..

19 Sep 2017 08:30:00
ED025, You want us to be happy with 2 points dropped against a team who will yet again fight in the relegation battle mate? I am sorry but with that mindset we wouldn't win anything anytime soon! The bare minimum target you set is not to drop points at HOME! No disrespect to Burnley but are we just playing for fun or we really mean to challenge the title.

We dres against Watford and I thought all other top teams would also drew against Watford. City spanked half a dozen on Saturday!

{Ed025's Note - im not saying you should be happy harry you are missing the point, its about respect for other teams, their players and supporters, who died and made liverpool a club who can treat others like something they should scrape off their shoe?, thats one of the main reasons why you cant win the league because you expect to steamroller teams like burnley, and why other teams fans are delighted you dont mate..

19 Sep 2017 09:23:41
Spot on, Ed25 and great post, MK. Burnley have NEVER conceded a hammering since they came back up last season and we all know why so for some people to keep thinking we should be hammering them or any other lesser team is the reason for the pathetic, OTT reactions when that does not happen. The arrogance and hubris on here is deafening. LFC ain't all that and have not been for years, I'll have some of you know here so get off your high horses cos we are no longer a force and this, since over two decades now.

There are no easy games in the PL and that much is clear and cos City beat Watford 6-0 does not mean we will either. Football is NOT an exact science even if many want it to be. Every game and it's context is different.

Our attack is fine and has always been fine since Klopp arrived. That is NOT the issue for the upteeth time. The issue is us continuing to make mistakes at the back or us not putting teams away of late. Sometimes, you won't score goals and there your defence and GK have to bail out the attack and that is where we are struggling. So again, all these "top striker" crap is nonsense and a rabbit hole that leads nowhere.

{Ed025's Note - im glad that at least some of you get the point bingo..

19 Sep 2017 19:38:53
I've only seen this response now.
You have taken me completely the wrong way.
I'm not going into it again but I can tell you that you've completely misunderstood my previous post.

{Ed025's Note - lets just move on kev..