Liverpool Banter Archive October 19 2017

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19 Oct 2017 22:04:32
We'll Ed25 mate, no lack of desire, really like Davies, but it seems to me there's a real lack of any idea what to do with the ball when you have it, all dead ball, no fluidity. Koeman is about as hopeless as Keane.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed025's Note - woeful again RTID, no excuses mate we got exactly what we deserved and have done all season, koeman is a dead man walking for me..

19 Oct 2017 22:15:32
Koeman looked like a man under pressure on the sidelines, a poor result against Arsenal and heâ€™ll be gone.

{Ed025's Note - if hes still there at the weekend smeg..

19 Oct 2017 22:17:17
It disappointed me to see him laughing towards the last few minutes like it was the refs fault they were losing, especially when Williams could have been sent off just for being a tool. Sooner he's gone the better for Everton IMO.

19 Oct 2017 22:30:16
Forgot all about the game was going to watch it as well, Koeman needs to stay, he's doing a fantastic job Ed025 mate :) - On a serious note though, how are the board keeping him in the position? He should be sacked first thing in the morning mate, otherwise it'll only get worse especially with Arsenal and Chelsea as your next fixtures.

{Ed025's Note - tough times ahead corleone mate, i think koeman is on the brink..

19 Oct 2017 23:12:08
BE stupid to sack him now,

He needs time, In the long run, the best thing that could happen is to get knocked out of EL,

More time on training ground and be a different team after Xmas,

19 Oct 2017 23:40:00
Koeman's tactics aside, the recruitment at Everton this past summer was a disaster no matter how hard the media and EFC fans try to convince you otherwise. There was this fan on the Everton fan on their page saying none of our LFC players could get into their side and it was only Koeman that was holding them back. Could not disagree more.

Their defense is old and withering (while Keane is c**p), they have too many CAMs and little to no genuine width, their best player is out injured and may never return the same. They signed players just the way Rodgers did when Suarez left. EFC will be lucky to finish in the top half of the table.

20 Oct 2017 01:53:10
This season is a relegation battle for Everton.

20 Oct 2017 06:12:39
Who would be your choice to replace him with?

Would Ancelotti go to Everton?
Moyes? Big Sam? Gary and Phil,
Dr Boer? Brodgers

Too many signings to the spine of a team all at one window is disastrous for any club,

It's like making wholesale changes for a cup match, it never works.

Stick with Koeman, he'll get it right.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think he will get the chance to be honest der, if there was even a hint that we were on the right path i would agree, but he does not seem to know what he is doing and that is a major problem mate..

20 Oct 2017 07:21:05
Koeman should go for sure, but itâ€™s also a case study in why selling you best player to bring in a whole new squad is really hard to get right. Itâ€™s often best to buy the best replacement you can, and upgrade one or maybe two positions, but Koeman (similar to Liverpool when we sold Suarez) spent it with new players all over the park and itâ€™s hard to make a team gel properly with so many changes.

Remember this when everyone is calling for Liverpool to change change Migs, the back four and all the midfield. itâ€™s easier to destroy a team through too many changes than to build one.

Hope you guys come right Ed - want you to do well provided you stay below us in the PL and get spanked by us twice a year ðŸ˜„.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think thats in question to be honest SG..

20 Oct 2017 09:19:24
Am I on the wrong page?!

{Ed001's Note - that has been asked of you a lot....}

20 Oct 2017 07:55:30
Look on the bright side Ed025, you may win the Championship next season mate :)

{Ed025's Note - we are not good enough for even that corleone..

20 Oct 2017 08:44:47
From what I watched in the second half the only player on that team that could turn it on at the moment and doesn't look like he is nervous or not confident is Lookman should of played from the start tbh,

I find the team is playing far to many of the same player should drop Siggy next to Morgan and play Klassen with Mirallas and lookman on the wings get at teams then with lookmans pace, or swap Klassen with siggy and play two DMS to sure the team up what do you think Ed25? I just think your playing completely the wrong formation for what you bought.

{Ed025's Note - the wrong players, the wrong system and the wrong manager kloppers, you dont know how lucky you are to have a manager like jurgen mate, you moan at his selections and formations...you dont know how lucky you are..

20 Oct 2017 11:47:56
Ed25, Everton weren't even this bad in Moyes' final years. Koeman has succeeded in making Everton actually worse than what they were under Moyes and having spent more money in one window than Moyes spent in 6/ 7 seasons. Nothing is working. The team's confidence is shattered and even a caretaker-manager will take a long while to get them back on side, confidence wise. Tough times for your team BUT all will be fine.

{Ed025's Note - but will it bingo?, we are relegation fodder at the moment and deservedly so, your so right when you have a pop at the klopp bashers mate as things could be a hell of a lot worse...you could support everton...

20 Oct 2017 14:05:10
I have yo say ed025, everton this season reminds me very much of our third season under rodgers, total cluelessness and despiration from top to bottom at the club.

{Ed025's Note - i cant even argue with you AW mate..

20 Oct 2017 21:46:36
Ed025 everton clearly have a good first 11 players and should be a decent side, its just koeman's tactics in my opinion.
Which leads me to thinking whythe hell he would be lined up for future Barcelona manager when they clearly are an offensive team and koemans tactics are defend defend defend.

{Ed025's Note - he has more chance of managing barnet than barca knuckles, he does not meet their demographic mate..

19 Oct 2017 21:31:43
Based on what Iâ€™m seeing here Everton donâ€™t have one player that would get into our first team. Seriously. Not even one.

Believable9 Unbelievable0

19 Oct 2017 22:05:40
Harsh, Davies was all over the pitch, id take him tomorrow, that's about it though.

19 Oct 2017 22:09:30
Iâ€™d take their goalkeeper over Mignolet and I like Gueye who wasnâ€™t playing tonight, thatâ€™s about it though.

19 Oct 2017 22:15:23
I wouldnâ€™t take their keeper, heâ€™s no better than any one at the club including Mignolet. He is worse than any of our keepers on crosses and always looks weak under a high ball.

19 Oct 2017 22:52:46
I'd take Barkley if just to wind them up. Would take Davies on merit.

19 Oct 2017 23:58:20
I'd take Gueye to protect our defense. No thanks to the rest of that horrendous EFC squad. They actually thought a top4 challenge was on the cards. Hilarious!

20 Oct 2017 00:13:02
I'd take none of them.

20 Oct 2017 00:30:29
Would take their keeper and gueye whos top quality. plus Davies whos going to be some player.

20 Oct 2017 08:46:01
I'd Take Gueye, Lookman, Davies they have some talent in there just needs top be used better.

{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't touch Gueye, can't pass and far too rash in the tackle. He would be a much better player if he made less as he is prone to the Moreno's - rash lunges to win a ball he has no chance of getting. Calvert-Lewin I would take as well as Lookman and Davies though.}

20 Oct 2017 11:20:43
Thinking about it in terms of what positions we are short in, I'd take Garbutt, Kenny and Holgate. Kenny frees up Gomez and Arnold to play their natural roles, Garbutt will be better than Moreno or Robbo in time, and Holgate would be a great long term partner in the centre with Gomez.

I'd also take DC Lewin as i think he is a special talent even if we aren't light up top.

Aside from that? Nobody. Davies is not better than Woodburn, Arnold or Grujic in midfield. Lookman is not better than Solanke, Kent or Ojo as a forward. Baines and Coleman are finished. Pickford is not better than Ward or Karius at a similar age. Sigurdsson goes to pieces in any team expected to finish above 17th place. Gueye is a headless chicken. Rooney is finished. Keane and Williams are Donkeys.

I feel for Everton fans. I enjoy winding them up during their bad runs, but this has gone a bit far now. It's not a bad run they're just a bad team. And Koeman's negative and boring tactics are the root cause. They are literally the second worst team in the league right now. Maybe the worst as Hodgson has got Palace playing better now. They will almost certainly get relegated if Koeman keeps his job which would be an absolute travesty for such a big club. Not to mention we'd lose our guaranteed 6 points every season!

20 Oct 2017 12:47:28
I'd take koeman ðŸ˜†.

20 Oct 2017 17:35:58
I wouldnâ€™t take any of them! If we did theyâ€™d be squad players at best. Not one of them would be starting for us week in week out. They are relegation fodder. I can see them going the same way as QPR.

20 Oct 2017 11:52:17
Spot on, Ed. I would NOT want Gueye as he is headless chicken who can't tackle and can't pass a ball. People calling him baby Kante must be on some serious medication as he is not a patch on Kante nor on any of our mids. I would not take any of their players as we are better in every dept. I noticed some on here saying Everton would be great cos they bought all those players BUT individually, every many of us knew none of their signings would make our first team so hopefully people will now understand that NOTHING is won in the TW.

{Ed025's Note - to be fair bingo idrissa is a very good player mate, but he needs a bit of quality around him to be seen at his best, hes not getting that with us..

19 Oct 2017 15:28:52
Ed001, you did an article at the start of the season regarding who you thought had strengthened the most in the summer. At the next international break, could you possibly fit in a follow up to that article? I think by then we'll be able to seriously analyse how the teams are evolving with their new players and make accurate predictions as to who will seriously challenge. So far only City have convinced me they are a title winning team.

Believable3 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - I have added that to my to do list and I will try and do that as it is a good idea.}

19 Oct 2017 16:14:53
It'd just be interesting to re-evaluate. Although, it Looks like you got City spot on in your original piece, even if i disagreed at the time!

Would be good to hear which new signings you think have settled (Salah, Matic, Richarlison? ), who hasn't (Lindelof, Sigurdsson, Bakayoko? ), any players who have had a sudden unexpected resurgence (Sterling, Moreno, Fellaini? ), players who perhaps should've left for various reasons (Van Dijk, Barkley, Sanchez? ) . Maybe even get into which managers have found a system that works well (Pep, Mourinho? ), and who is riding their luck in terms of keeping their job (Bilic, Koeman? ) and who has already bitten the bullet and if you think that was the right decision (De Boer, Shakespeare? ) . In fact that is how you could structure it. For each team you could do a best new signing, worst new signing, most improved player from last season, players who should've left (if any), and how the manager has got them playing. Just an idea though, you are way better at them than me, I'm sure!

There is just so much you could elaborate on and analyse from the original piece as i think you wrote it straight after the window shut when the dust hadn't fully settled. Look forward to it if you (hopefully) can find the time in amongst your extensive list of profiles and requests ðŸ˜‚ i understand this is a potential big one though! Maybe it could wait until Christmas if you are snowed under (Ba Dum tss) .

Cheers mate.

{Ed001's Note - I agree, it is always really interesting to look back on things like that and see what you got right and what was wrong. I will defo get on that during the international break.}

19 Oct 2017 16:22:48
I think Watford have to be commended and Silva is impressing again.

19 Oct 2017 16:27:28
MK, where you been bro? Missed ya.

19 Oct 2017 16:42:00
Cheers buddy! Hopefully Liverpool give you some positives to write about over the next few weeks then!

19 Oct 2017 19:14:12
Just had a short break Bingo mate. Had a lot on in the real world lately and the negativity and arguing on here wasn't helping. I figured I'd have a look at the site after we won 7-0 expecting it to be positive. It is a little more bearable reading i guess ðŸ˜‚

I'm still staying out of the debates for a bit longer whilst my life in the real world rides out the turbulence, but I'm going to start visiting regularly again. I was intending to stay away until January, but this sites just too addictive my friend.

19 Oct 2017 20:09:14
Nice recommendation mate :) good to see you posting again!

19 Oct 2017 20:20:01
Cheers Corleone. I've read down the boards today and your posts have been consistently excellent the last few days mate.

19 Oct 2017 20:32:11
Take heart MK, my friend. We may argue and debate about all things football and LFC BUT there are more important things in life. I hope all will will be fine in your life with whatever turbulence (s) is going on there. My heart and prayers are with you and hope to see you back very soon always remember: The night may bring turbulence (pun intended) BUT there will always be joy in the morning. God bless, my friend!

19 Oct 2017 20:39:16
hallelujah.

19 Oct 2017 21:19:04
Thanks very much MK mate :)

19 Oct 2017 22:12:14
If you come back here when we win MK you'll see a lot less people on here than when we lose . hope your well mate.

19 Oct 2017 22:47:50
Thanks Bingo/ Squizza. Your kind words help more than you probably realise.

You're welcome Corleone.

20 Oct 2017 00:15:41
I hope you keep posting mate, your opinions are accurate in my opinion and valued by many. What ever may be going on in life, I hope it improves mate :)

19 Oct 2017 05:54:21
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Midfielders - Part 2

Believable5 Unbelievable2

19 Oct 2017 06:53:43
Magnificent. Just magnificent ðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜Ž. You should have named a few more players as examples of the types you mentioned. I just hope some people before posting random Bull about â€œ How great our Center Mid â€œ read this article at least 19 times!
We have none of the categories with us except Ball Winners.
The entire concept of our midfield is to protect and support Coutinho! No wonder we count stars when he is not in pitch!

Looking forward to the third part!

Taking about midfield, Which PL club has the best / most complete midfield according to you? And which in Europe?
My pick, UTD with Pogba, Matic and Micky
Spurs with Dier / Wanyama, Dembele
Chelsea only when they have Kante!

{Ed001's Note - PL would depend, probably Chelsea at full strength as Mikhitaryan is not good at all, terrible buy, he just goes missing for 90% of a season. I don't rate him at all. Though Citeh's is not bad, that is for sure.

Europe has Juve, Bayern, Madrid, all got excellent midfields. PSG are up there too, though losing Matuidi in the summer has weakened it.}

19 Oct 2017 07:10:29
Chelsea were absolutely crap yesterday against a wonderful Roma who ran the show all over. Without Kante they are terrible, point blank crap! Fabregas is a wonderful passer of the ball but has the mobility of a pensioner while Bokayako is like an Emre Can ( Need a solid disciplined player alongside him ) .

City looks ok but only till they are being dominated which is not the case in PL. they donâ€™t have a balanced midfield. They have a wonderful midfield. Fernandinho is doing all alone himself but then his side scores so much that they just neglect every other part of the pitch.

Juventus is ohk. Without Pjanic they are average.
PSG - I like their midfield. Motta / Rabiot / Verratt.
Madrid has the most complete midfield in Europe.

{Ed001's Note - not sure about that with Madrid, Casemiro is not the best and Kroos is so lazy I would hate to have him in my team.}

19 Oct 2017 07:23:41
Hard to look beyond a midfield which can boast of David Silva and Kevin De Bryune.
They are world class players and no mistake.

{Ed001's Note - but they do not provide much defensive cover, so they are not very balanced. I do agree though, particularly Silva.}

19 Oct 2017 07:44:17
Fantastic article mate.

{Ed001's Note - thank you mate. Bit rushed at the end as the leccy was due to go off here for maintenance and I wanted to get it up before that happened.}

19 Oct 2017 07:48:20
Ron

I was referring to a complete midfield.

Julian Weigl / WC holding mid - Naby Kieta - Coutinho

Thatâ€™s a complete midfield.

19 Oct 2017 08:02:52
I wouldn't of guessed it was rushed mate :) - looking forward to the part 3.

{Ed001's Note - thank you.}

19 Oct 2017 08:24:57
Not with Weigl. Don't think he is a true DM. He is more of a DLP, IMO.

19 Oct 2017 09:09:03
PSG have the best midfield in Europe imo. Motta (ageing but still class), Verratti and Rabiot have it all. They actually function as a group, something our midfielders particularly Henod, Can and Gini should learn from.

19 Oct 2017 09:24:52
Though it's debatable I'm with you Indian there, they are top notch mate.

19 Oct 2017 09:39:21
Cracking article as usual ed. Very much looking forward to part 3.

19 Oct 2017 09:55:38
I would gladly take Weigl. He is a brilliant player. Dier or Wanyama, We definitely need one at least.

19 Oct 2017 10:55:29
Good article but worth giving your thoughts on how these types of players impact the system and what it means for us.

I think we have 3 decent all-rounders in our team in Can, Gini and Hendo, all fairly good at breaking up play, but also decent passers, and at getting forward without being brilliant at any one thing. Then we have two roaming attacking playmakers in Couts and Lallana who mostly looking to get forward, play between the lines and get into the box to score.

What we seem to lack is a natural fetcher like Kante (even if Hendo and Gini can sometimes do this) or a deep holding midfielder (although Can still looks best bet to develop into one for me) .

It seems we rely more on mobility and aggression to press the ball carrier into making a mistake rather than a particularly brilliant defender in midfield. Which is probably why Klopp prefers the 4-3-3 as that system allows us to control midfield. It seems to work well in some games (Arsenal and Maribor) but can also leave us feeling a little blunt when trying to unlock a tough defensive unit (Newcastle and Man Utd)

Iâ€™m still surprised we havenâ€™t see a Hendo/ Can double pivot in a 4-2-3-1 as I expect both would excel alongside the other, allowing us to play a Mane, Coutinho, Salah attacking midfield which I think would be pretty devastating and make us a bit more of a threat going forward.

{Ed001's Note - it was not meant to be about Liverpool mate, so I couldn't really do that as it differs for every team.}

19 Oct 2017 10:58:21
Is silva one of the most underated players in world football and english football history? Id say so.

19 Oct 2017 11:02:23
What I'd give to have Mascherano Alonso and Gerrard in their day again!

19 Oct 2017 11:24:11
Anonymous

Yes he is mate. Itâ€™s a surprise he stayed at city for so long!

19 Oct 2017 12:42:52
Keita, hendo and firmino shouldn't be too bad.

Can and cou out.

Werner in for me. German. Young. Very fast. Links with naby.

Ward/ karius
Taa matip vvd? moreno
Hendo
Keita firmino
Mane salah
Werner

Yep. Pretty special.

Lallana, wiji, grujic, oxlade, solanke, Woodburn, ejaria.

Maybe throw are hat in the ring for goretzka on a free (not free ed 2;) )

Sturridge, cou, can, klavan, migs out.

Goretzka, Werner, keita and a cb in.

19 Oct 2017 14:35:35
Good piece 001, would you say Delle Alli is in the same category as Keita, Naingollan and Vidal? He's another who is good at everything to a degree, chips in with goals, and has a bit of a fiery temper. It's hard to pinpoint his exact role though so maybe it's a slight variation of the old fashioned centre mid position. As he does tend to drift beyond Kane at times, but isn't afraid to mix it on the edge of his own box. I certainly don't see him as an orthodox number 10 or second striker. It is kind of like where Gerrard played behind Torres, but not, if you know what i mean?

Still haunts me that we missed out on him. He's already on the verge of being world class in my opinion.

{Ed001's Note - no he is an attacking mid for me. Very rarely gets back at all now.}

19 Oct 2017 15:07:06
Keita is first class in breaking up of play and he actually starts from the middle or deep! Ali is nothing of that kind. Kieta is also a brilliant playmaker while Ali is the recepient of a beautiful pass from Dembele or Errikson!
Kieta is exactly what Chelsea thought Bakoyaka would be!

{Ed002's Note - No.}

19 Oct 2017 14:59:23
Another Ed01 masterpiece!

{Ed001's Note - I am blushing thank you RE!}

19 Oct 2017 15:07:09
Cheers Ed. He is certainly quite unique. Unlike most attacking mids nowadays he seems like he'd rather score a goal himself than set one up and isn't what you'd normally class as creative. Whatever his role, Gerrard should've got out of bed!

{Ed001's Note - a lot of people do consider him as a forward, but he is an odd kind of floating forward. Not having the best of seasons so far though. I do agree though, he would have been perfect for Klopp's style.}

19 Oct 2017 15:26:19
Personally I'd rather us guarantee Can playing time and resign him (although he may still go anyway) and sell Hendo.
As much as I admire certain traits from Henderson, IMO I just don't see him in a squad that takes Liverpool to the next level. I still think a solid CDM is needed to support the back line. this would allow your other two mids to push forward (box-box) . Having said that, as the ED's pointed out, we need balanced fullbacks as well in order to allow the CM's (CAM's) to push forward without fear of being beaten on the break.
A solid holding mid (kante type player) keita, coutinho (Enter replacement) new fullbacks, and a CB. A keeper would be ideal as well but I think at his age, Karius deserves a shot and if a sold foundation is built around him, I think you would see him excel.

19 Oct 2017 16:29:31
I've always thought Alli was a forward, a false 9 if you like, behind the striker which is the exact role he plays at Spurs and for England.

19 Oct 2017 18:18:28
What do you mean when you say "links with naby"?

19 Oct 2017 17:29:44
I think Alli should really be a box to box midfielder for me, but Spurs are playing him like a sort of no.10 because they have Wanyama/ Dier or Dembele locking up shop behind him so they let him roam free to pair with Kane. Problem is I think itâ€™s making him a bit lazy and Alli doesnâ€™t have the pace of a Mane or Hazard, not the skills of a De Bruyne or Coutinho so I suspect heâ€™ll be far more effective in a Gerard type role where he could be genuinely world class. I think heâ€™d be perfect for Klopp and I think heâ€™d become a better player in a system like Liverpoolâ€™s too.

20 Oct 2017 07:49:05
I've always thought clubs buying DM's was one of the worst moves that can be done, developing them in your own system to be best but looking and our youth clubs I do not particularly see anyone who could do that in the coming years. I would like to see more of Henderson with Milner in the Midfield and see if that combination could continue to play well. Milner should certainly have some fresh legs.