Liverpool Banter Archive December 19 2017

19 Dec 2017 20:59:08
Some good points on here the last week or so. I'd constantly called for Sturridge to go in the summer but got slated time and time again. I loved studge when he was at his best but I don't see other top clubs indulging in has Beens or maybes they get rid and are ruthless.

The fact that the Opinion in Moreno has completely changes can surely not be down to his performances! Yes he has done better but he has also been a liability in manyu games and he constantly distorts the shape of the team. Robertson is by far a better option. Better defensively, more composed, better delivery and not as hot headed.

The big issues remain in goal and at the back with Matip injury prone and Klavan and Lovren although decent back up centre half's playing far too much! We need 2 new centre backs badly maybe one we great experience who can help Gomez into the role eventually and someone reaching their prime. Easier said than done.

In goal Karius, bar dawdling on the ball v Arsenal has been improved and Mignolet the same old inconsistent Mignolet.

On a bright note the emergence of Gomez and TAA has been a huge bonus and will likely save us a fortune. Both have been very impressive and have many years in a red shirt ahead.

Centre mid has also become a concern, hendo who I rate Highly just hasn't been at his level, Wini needs to take less touches, move the ball qucikly and drove forward more. Milner and Can are good squad players. Really we need 2 new centre miss, Keita is one, who the other?

As for Coutinho, he has been a great signing and I enjoy seeing the club buy good players, get good service and sell them for millions more . Beats the old days of paying big money for players who eventually gave poor service and were sold for a reduced price.

Lessons haven't been learned since Klopp arrived in holding onto leads. We continue to drop points and lose or draw games after going ahead. Some has been unlucky but there is a consistent theme that needs to be rectified. Get that right and we will be well in the mix .

YWNA.

19 Dec 2017 21:54:48
Personally I’d say moreno is ahead of Robertson. He offers more going forward plus Robbo hasn’t be tested defensively yet. However by the end of the season I believe Robbo will be our number 1 left back. Definitely agree we need a CB maybe just one and give Gomez a shot then sign a RB pereira? I’ve been impressed with Ox so he could be the other cm provided we push Woodburn, Wilson or ojo on next season. I think we’ll have a much more solid squad going into next season I just hope we can kick on a challenge for trophies.

19 Dec 2017 23:57:03
I find it odd. This Moreno is better going forward. He and Robertson have similar assist stats if I am right? With moreno playing more games. And in a team that more often than not dominated games, and with far superior players than no disrespect but Robertson had at Hull city. Moreno has improved this season and huge respect to him. But I for 1 don't see much difference in the pair off them, Robertson edges it in defensive side in my opinion.

20 Dec 2017 01:39:31
Regardless who is better, isn't it important we have depth at this position that has been a problem for years? Moreno goes down and we are fortunate to have an actual left back in his place. With all the comparisons between the two, we will see how Andy makes out this Friday against a top 6 team before we start comparing him to Moreno.

20 Dec 2017 09:50:39
Just picking up on that comment about 'has-beens. Firstly it's an increadibly disrespectful way to talk about a professional who is still doing his best for a cause you want to succeed. And secondly whilst Arsenal still play Walcott and Welbeck, United still keep Carrick who is 35 years old with a heart problem in contention, Chelsea still give minutes to the increasingly unreliable Cahill, Spurs buying Fernando Llorente in the summer, I think your assessment of what other clubs do with players as soon as they pass their peak ability levels is pretty wildly inaccurate. I'm not saying that we should keep every single player indefinitely, but it wouldn't kill us to discuss our desire for them to move on with a little more respect would it?

20 Dec 2017 12:49:41
Studge had the third best goal involvement stats this season ahead of both Firmino and Mane. That doesn't mean he's amazing but it does mean he's not a has-been. Couple this with the fact that almost every start he's been given is against deep lying defences which give him no room its little surprise that he's not setting the world on fire. If he wants to stay I'd have no hesitation in keeping him. If he wants to go I'd say thanks for everything and please be injured when you play Liverpool.

19 Dec 2017 15:19:23
Hi fellow reds,

one for banter.

I was just wondering which striker you guys would like to see leave in January either permanently or on loan.

My shout would be Sturridge on a permanent move as when he plays he just jogs around at 75% now and he has definitely lost a yard of pace which was his main strength.

I think Solanke is getting good experience with us even though it is not often enough. Ings could do with some game time out on loan but I would rather keep him for cover.

19 Dec 2017 15:41:34
out of the strikers Lfc has on books which includes Struddige, solanke, ings, firminio, origi and brewster, only 3 can stay in the first team. Firminio is a starter and then i want to keep Solanke and Brewster as a back up. i agree with u about sturridge and i think Ings will take a year or so to get back to complete fitnes and sharpness. And as per the rumours that we are about to loose brewster as he wants game time i would like to keep him in the team by giving him decent game time.

19 Dec 2017 16:28:30
Sturridge and Ings will both leave for first team football unless they get it over the next 6 months. Maybe even in January. Origi will likely stay at Wolfsburg. Brewster will probably sign for BVB or Juventus. I'm not convinced we need any more strikers even if those 4 leave. How many first team appearances have they made combined this season? About 8?

That leaves Firmino, Salah, Mane, Solanke and Woodburn; all capable of playing as a striker.

Next summer I'd focus on signing a creative attacker to replace Coutinho, adding another centre back if that isn't done in January, a right back to replace Clyne, an experienced keeper to replace Mignolet/ Ward/ Bogdan (with Karius No.1 and Grabara No.3) and a midfielder to replace Can. Other than that, just replacing any other first team regulars who leaves unexpectedly.

19 Dec 2017 16:50:54
One comment I would make is that none of our strikers are what you could call top class twenty a season types, for various reasons, so when you compare us to City, United, Chelsea and Spurs we are possibly lacking. But equally I’d expect Salah to get to twenty and he’ll be ably backed up with Firmino, Mane and Coutinho all getting double figures so it’s swings and roundabouts and for me, Centre defence, centre midfield and goalkeeper positions are the bigger concerns.

19 Dec 2017 17:42:34
Keep up with the scoring stats Mr Dennis.

19 Dec 2017 18:47:35
Firmino has thirteen before christmas.

19 Dec 2017 18:52:07
Our forward line is a natural goalscorer by "commitee" as in, all front players can score double digit goals and if they are all chipping in with double digit goals, who care about having some natural CF who if he has a bad game, the team is screwed. Ask Spurs and Harry Kane.

19 Dec 2017 19:17:50
Ings and sturridge should both leave for their own sake, when they were brought in they were good players and what we need, but the shape of the squad has changed and it is best for them to leave. Both good players when fit and firing and i wish nothing but the best for them.

I would keep one of origi or brewster but it is up to klopp to decide which one.

19 Dec 2017 19:41:30
Mr Dennis are spurs above us in the table? And apart from city we battling with the others for second place so for us lagging behind them as you say we aren't doing to bad are we? Another one of your posts that is just total nonsense.

19 Dec 2017 20:39:57
Spurs battered us though didn’t they? We still don’t have a top class striker and that is a fact, dress it up any way you like, we dropped 4 points against West Brom and Everton because we lacked a focal point for our attack when they sat back.

19 Dec 2017 21:33:13
Salah or Firmino not top class? You're having laugh?

19 Dec 2017 21:56:45
Lol exactly MK. I think he is having a laugh mate, surely?

19 Dec 2017 22:52:58
Spurs didn't batter us we literally handed them the game.

19 Dec 2017 23:24:20
Studge is done I’m afraid, and injuries have robbed ings of a potential fruitful stint with us following a good start. Bobby first choice, Solanke challenging him and Brewster to come through behind them when needed. Whilst I would like to see Ings make something with us I just can’t see it happening. Let’s hope he proves me wrong. Basically I’m a believer in having a definitive first 11 with another 11 players capable of filling in/ challenging and doing similar jobs to those first 11, supported by youth players coming through.

20 Dec 2017 08:42:38
We might as well sell Sturridge and Ings in January to be honest. That leaves us with Firmino, Solanke and Brewster as well as Salah and Mane to fill in if needed. We have 2 great young stikers in Solanke and Brewster, we can't let them rot in the reserves.

{Ed025's Note - both a bit raw yet for me Cyklopps, they may develop into great players but they are not there yet, especially with brewster it should be slowly slowly catchee monkey mate..

20 Dec 2017 10:24:43
Good Point Ed25 I think I can agree with you on Brewster as he is very young but I just hate to see our young talent get wasted like it has the last few years (Suso, Texiera, Smith, Coady, Rossiter) .
I really like what Everton have done with their youngsters. Having their first team players and then instead of buying in players for Squad rotation they give them places to their youngsters and I think in a few years it will all be worth it for the likes of Davies, Kenny, Calvert Lewin and Holgate.
And As for us Why not just move Salah to Striker then if Firmino get injured? I think it would work better to have someone like Solanke on the bench who need minutes then if needed instead of having someone like Sturridge who unfortunately look like he's passed it.

{Ed025's Note - as stevie wonder wrote " the children are our future" Cyklopps, i love how everton have used ours but maybe that was out of necessity rather than planning, its nice to see youngsters progress though and liverpool have some good youngsters of their own, but they need to give them a little run out now and then in a league cup game or coming off the bench when a game is won mate..

19 Dec 2017 12:01:35
Brover and smeghead, I'm sure lovren is a lovely lad and is not playing badly on purpose, but stop it with this "sympathy for a human being" and "family problems" etc. This is purely about ability on a football pitch, it's his job. If he worked in a factory and kept making error after error, do you think his boss would say "its OK dejan you keep messing up you were a refugee", and I'm sure the man himself wouldn't want you making excuses for him like the ones you've said here, support him all you want but give footballing reasons why you support him not excuses.

21 Dec 2017 14:12:22
If he worked in a factory they'd sign him off work. I know they would because they did for me when i was struggling with mental health.

No offence Waro, but you seem to be under educated on mental health and how severe it is. The brain is the most important organ in the body and yet it is the only one which we refuse to acknowledge can have problems. It isn't your fault if you don't understand it, it just wasn't understood or even well documented until very recently. When i had depression and i had a violent outburst at my dad, he just kicked me out the house. That same week i came within 50 yards of a deliberate head on collision with an artic lorry. I needed support, not deriding. I climbed out of my hole, but many people don't.

Football and society has a major problem in this area. Aaron Lennon is one of the only players i can think of to go public and he got the help and time away he needed to come back when he was ready. The fact you would even dare to call it an "excuse" is bordering on abhorrent. That will offend a lot more people than just myself. Every feeling and emotion is a chemical reaction in the brain, and depression is caused by chemical imbalances.

You wouldn't be saying this if Lovren had cancer, yet mental health is just as damaging to a persons well being if not diagnosed, managed and treated. Two people i know have committed suicide in the last two years of my life. One a middle aged man, and another a young girl. It strikes anyone at any time. I don't know if Lovren is in that place (and i really hope not), but we as supporters should feel morally obliged to support him through his troubles.

"But he earns £100k a week" is irrelevant. Robin Williams was a millionaire Hollywood actor and his cash didn't help him either. When you are ill, you are ill. You don't get to just force yourself to feel better when you have a visible illness, and the invisible illnesses in the brain are no different.

I get your point that we are not a charity and we shouldn't just accept his form. However right now, we are so lacking in options that we can't afford to sign him off for 6 months to recover. He is doing us a favour playing through his problems and we should respect that if nothing else. He has nothing to gain from it. We'd have to pay him regardless because he is under contract. Sympathy is very different to acceptance. I accept his performances aren't good enough, but i also have enough respect for a fellow human being not to actively try and compound the mental difficulties he is having.

I hope i haven't offended you because this is a subject i am vehemently passionate about, and i am only seeking to educate others on the difficulties that surround the brain, it's health, and the impact it can have on us and others. Lovren has been through a lot as a child, and being burgled at gun point will have had a huge impact on the regression of his mental state. You have every right as a paying supporter to want him taken out of the team whilst he recovers, but until we sign another centre back, we should all just respect that Lovren is putting in 100% on the pitch whilst battling demons none of us will ever fully understand. Maybe he wouldn't get support in every industry. However, football is one industry which has the financial resources to fully support this major health problem, and it is also in a relative position of power due to it's position as a major role model in society. It could make a difference.

Again, i really hope nobody is offended by this. I know it isn't strictly Liverpool related Eds, but i think this is a really important subject that is being brushed under the carpet by people not taking it seriously, particularly in sport. I hope it's acceptable for these pages, but I'll understand if not.

21 Dec 2017 15:57:05
Touching waro.
If he worked in a factory and had personal issues that effected his performance he would be given a long period of absence to sort it out, as he’s a footballer he’s forced to work in front to 50k people each week who are judging every moment then slag him off and send him death threats on social media immediately after. Little wonder he’s struggling really.

21 Dec 2017 17:12:26
Waro you are the one who brought money into the conversation, please tell me how money is a factor on the pitch? You want footballing reasons? How about in the last 2 1/ 2 seasons Lovren has had 3 errors that have led to goals, by comparison John Stones has had 6 over the same period. Lovren always gives 100% in a Liverpool shirt, he may mistakes but he’s not as bad as people make out and he certainly isn’t uncoachable.

21 Dec 2017 18:22:01
Can’t believe the number of thumbs down to that post. Maybe because Waro was a bit blunt about it perhaps but he is bang on. He may be having a rough time of it in his personal life, but it has very little to do with some of the howlers he has committed.

He has been carrying an injury however, which could be partially to blame, but most of his errors are down to bad decision making, simple as.

21 Dec 2017 18:29:16
Everyone is different though Waro some can switch off and focus on football as a release but if some of the stories are true about fearing the kidnapp of his kids and multi million pound ransoms by a known gangster then you can’t really blame him for his head being in the right place at times.
Agree that his performances haven’t been consistently good enough and you can’t ignore it completely just because of personal issues but if we had done what we should have in the summer and got another CB in then we could have taken him out the firing line at times.

21 Dec 2017 19:14:52
the thing is waro, when we love a football team we love the players too. if Lallana were in a car crash and in hospital I would be worried for him and his family, I wouldn't just be upset that he couldn't play. dejan has been playing better recently and klavan looks a different player. I really feel we are going to buy vvd in January. I don't think we can win this league with the cbs we have.

19 Dec 2017 10:27:34
To all Eds and posters.

Do you find the new generation has got into us too, Like with everyone taking mobiles to games instead of actually watching and enjoying the moment. Even after a win it seems to be all about the end of the season. I found myself looking ahead to the next few fixtures seeing how many point we could get and how many points the teams around us can drop. I should have been enjoying the moment of winning 4-0 against Bournemouth, I should have been enjoying the moment, I should have been grateful that the lads put in such an entertaining performance.

Im finding myself and other fans forgetting to just live in that moment, Celebrating the lads winning, Or defending them to the world when we lose. But nope from match day 1 onwards its all about where we finish instead of enjoying the journey.

19 Dec 2017 19:14:55
Completely agree with you, this is all stuff i frequently moan about.

However if i was to say something about that it would be that it is not my generation who record matches on their phones and gawp, its the elders who are still in awe of the technology at their disposal. And the tourists. People my age can only dream of being on a steady enough income to afford a season ticket, and when we get the chance to go, we wouldn't dare record it on our phones. When i go the game i see both tourists and people who have held season tickets for decades on their phones all the time. Its the generation gap that is killing anfield, not neccasarily the foreign fans as so many oafs solely blame it on. If anfield was full of more lads like me and my friends as opposed to the whinging middle aged men it currently services, it would be a better place. On your second point, people my age seem less inclined to be obsessed with this strange end goal, this new golden age of liverpool that older fans see on the horizon. We are not entitled to win anything, and that is not going to happen again. We enjoy each game as it comes, we enjoy players while they are here. Im too young to get depressed waiting for liverpool to win a league title, as so many seem to do. Liverpool football club is first and foremost a community, a relief from the outside world. If people cannot enjoy a 4-0 win, or support the boys when they lose because they are simply waiting for us to win a league title, i feel they have simply missed the point of liverpool football club altogether, and should find a different outlet to invest their time in.

19 Dec 2017 09:06:05
I just realised the only team who has lost less games than us is Man City.

We can easily go on and finish second this season lads. Just got to be at the top of our game and not let it get to us that the title is already lost.

United are scraping through right now, and i watched them get passed off the pitch by West Brom on Sunday. De Gea is keeping them in the race single handedly right now.

Arsenal are just weak in every position except Kolasinac and Ozil.

Chelsea are weak in every position except Hazard, Kante, Azpilicueta and Courtois.

Spurs have capitulated and despite having a good team, their manager has lost the plot and started playing technically poor Sanchez, Wanyama, Sissoko, and Aurier.

2nd place is there for the taking.

19 Dec 2017 09:37:05
I'd like to think so MK. Personally I'm hoping for a top 4 position, if we get above 4th we've made improvements and like you say, it certainly is possible. It'd be interesting to see Utd without De Gea, they wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are now without him and that's not me been bitter towards them, it's true. The lad is outstanding I hope he goes in the summer elsewhere, they will find it difficult replacing him.

I like to have the opinion of ' it's not over until it's over' Man City are indeed flying with the title right now, but we're not even half way through, anything could happen, I'm not saying we're going to go and win the league and I do believe City will do it but, should a few injuries happen and not go there way, it could disrupt them incredibly, this is football. What a league.

19 Dec 2017 09:44:21
That could very well be the case. It is a case of consistency and staying fresh, alltho some of the draws need to become wins in order for that to happen. This is similar to some of the Rafa's seasons, difference now is that we have squad depth.
All in all were doing better and better and our form looks like we'll have a strong run in a cup competition, hopefully the CL.

19 Dec 2017 10:58:19
A lot could depend on the CL. If we go far in it I think we'll struggle - too much of our squad will struggle with the extra games and pressure at the crunch time of the season. If we don't, and a few others like Chelsea do, I can see the 2nd-4th place competition still being up for grabs in the last few games of the season.

19 Dec 2017 11:23:30
Spot on, MK and the other posters. Since Klopp's first full season last year, we have only lost EIGHT games under him. Can you imagine that? With the way people lose their minds after a draw, you would think it was double that amount. It is not only that we don't just lose as much. We have never lost back to back under Klopp in the PL since the start of last season. This shows the ability of Klopp and the boys to bounce back after every defeat which is remarkable. The issue here now is the draws. e have to turn those into wins, ASAP if we wanna finish 2nd.

In addition to your observation MK, I noticed how tired and leggy Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea were towards the last 2o mins of thier games this weekend. Spurs were virtually knackered with half an hour to go vs City. This is what Klopp is trying to avoid and it showed on Sun as we played at a MUCH higher tempo from start to finish vs B'mouth. These teams are literally on their knees physically as they can't finish games cos they don't rotate esp. Chelsea and Spurs and Arsenal so we are he fresher team now and we should make this advantage count starting with Arsenal.

19 Dec 2017 11:25:53
I generally agree a lot with you mk, but don't underestimate chelsea and arsenal. chelsea isn't weak at all and arsenal isn't consistent but could be really good if their players tried, they were unlucky against manU for exemple. agree on utd and tottenham at the moment though.
btw really nice assessment on robertson.

19 Dec 2017 11:43:18
I'd say De Gea is more than single-handedly keeping United in games right now.

It's more like double-handedly, often both legs, the greater percentage of the surface area of his body, and most likely his face at one point or another.

Truly a ridiculous keeper, and the bane of many a United fax machine.

19 Dec 2017 12:40:57
If we cut out the draws, yes. The football clube can't always win by 4,5 goals. We won't always barnstorm teams. Souness is right that we have to find a way of turning those 0-0/ 1-1 games into 1-0/ 2-1 wins.

The draws are disastrous. Against 0-0 against ManU/ WBA becomes 1-0. 1-1 against CFC/ EFC becomes 2-1 etc. I get that we inevitably WILL draw some matches. But at this rate it's suicidal really. Ridiculous to think this team's lost only a game less than City yet we 18 points behind them.

Klopp and the players HAVE to muster a way to win those "high impact" and do so differetnly. By rights and merit, the team should of beaten WBA and EFC at home, which would of put us joint second right now.

Past coupla fixtures presented the team with an opportunity to wipe out the gap between us and 2nd place whils leaving Spurs and Arsenal further behind. That's what I mean by "high impact" matches cause of the effect they have. That opportunity was squandered.

That's why no matter the football clube brilliant front four and exhilarating performances, we'll ultimately either fall short or end making hard work of a walk in the park as happened last with top 4.

Upside of City's form is that there isn't really any standout from the rest of this bunch. 2nd and 3rd are there for the taking.
Bad news is that am not convinced of our ability to grip those position and run away with them.

There's no easy games in the league for sure, there are games which should be routine wins. You don't have to win them all, no. You just have to win enough of them, that's it.
Chelsea, City, Utd and Spurs win those.

This team will enthral and excite for sure. But ultimately his much harvest will it bring home? That's the most critical criteria. MK is posted the other day that anything above top 4 would be "overachieving".
I disagree. What Spurs been doing the last few years IS overachieving. LFC on the contrary have been underachieving to downright shambolic, given the vast monies spent since FSG arrival.

19 Dec 2017 13:26:02
*edit: lost a game MORE than City.

19 Dec 2017 13:30:19
the title looks gone but it is not over until the fat lady sings. I really fancy us to finish second. if we don't make top 4 then surely that is down to our defence. our attacking play is as good as anyone in the world and personally i'm not scared of anyone in the champions league. I think we have scored more European goals than anyone this year. Big games away at arsenal and utd, also Chelsea. I think those games will be the deciders as to who makes ucl. if we don't make it then the back three (cbs and gk) need dropping for good. Our team is so good and we are let down by stupid mistakes.

ox is coming good, I knew he would.
Robertson I really really like, a few weeks ago I claimed he is a one trick pony who can throw back post crosses in all day but his end product was so much more varied against bournmouth. More solid than Moreno (who I still like)
Klavan looks a different player from the poor cb of last year. he looks a really assured cb these days. I prefer him to matip all day. works harder and is more aware. I think confidence was a big factor for him last season.
Salah, what can I say? amazing player. him and couts are so deadly.

The player who I think needs to improve or sort his head out is mane. I love the guy, great player but I think he feels although he is in salah's shadow this season. last year mane was the man and now salah is. last year mane would have squared that ball against everton. either that or he would have buried it,

mane! we all know how good you are, you don't need to prove yourself to us, just play your game and forget about African rivalry.

21 Dec 2017 16:25:14
So having a top GK can get you second with a poorer team, hmm.

19 Dec 2017 08:34:20
The argument on gini not getting in the top sides. City aside, he'd get games at the top. United have Pogba matic and Herrera at the moment, he'd play. Chelsea have bakayoko and Kante and there's games I'd pick him over Fabregas or drinkwater. Arsenal, with a choice of Ramsey Wilshere and xhaka, he'd play. Spurs have played sissoko in the middle a bit, gini would get games.
The word is use for him this year is anonymous, but hopefully he'd regain form. At times you couldn't get the ball from him last year!

19 Dec 2017 10:23:25
I agree mate. Gini would get games at City too. He is at least as good as Delph. He wouldn't start ahead of Fernandinho, Silva or De Bruyne but he'd definitely get game time.

He's a decent utility player if nothing else. One we don't appreciate enough. Is he good enough to be starting in a title winning team? Arguably not. But as City are proving with Delph this season, a utility player can get you through an injury crisis if nothing else. Gini will be vital at times over a long season.

He looks bad this season because he was so contrastingly good last season, but he can't help that we've moved away from the tactics which suited him.

19 Dec 2017 11:56:26
I agree that right now the tactics don't suit him. That being said, It is almost January so he needs to adjust because right now he isn't giving us very much.

19 Dec 2017 11:58:35
Delph plays a hybrid LB/ CM position for City which he is awful at. Do you think Gini would play there and this is coming from a Gini fan who has been frustrated with his disappearing acts away from home?

19 Dec 2017 20:57:14
I think that Delph is having a very good season, and plays a lot of forward passes, Gini on the other hand has been a passenger for most games, he goes missing in all away games, and most of his passes are 5 to 10 yard passes backwards and sideways,
I hope that Gini improves, or he won't get many games next season when the midfield is re vamped .

19 Dec 2017 23:06:21
I wouldn't call him a utility player, he played one game at CB badly, and is now being asked to play a little deeper and doesn't seem to manage. I think he can be decent holding, as he's quick, decent passer and strong on the ball, just needs to work on position and actually getting involved a bit.