Liverpool Banter Archive November 18 2014

18 Nov 2014 23:16:32
Saw a picture from the Portugal vs Argentina match of Ronaldo and Messi chatting and they were both covering their mouths. I see this happen quite a lot, particularly in football, anyone know why they do it?

I've only noticed it in the last year or so, but it's so prevalent now. I saw Rafa Nadal talking to his uncle Tony after he won Wimbledon and they were mouth covering. Surely they weren't worried about lip readers? The match was over, so it's not like they were discussing tactics!

{Ed007's Note - It is down to lip readers as far as I know. I've noticed loads of people doing it.}

18 Nov 2014 23:38:46
Yep, lip readers. If you watch a doubles match in tennis, its particularly prevalent, they tend to obscure their mouths with their balls (oooer!)

19 Nov 2014 12:08:58
Been doing it in baseball for years! As the others say 'lip reading'

18 Nov 2014 20:56:17
Seen a few web links and twitter posts mentioning that Sturridge has broken down in training again!!
This time with a thigh injury.
Hopefully it isn't true.

Yes they are saying its the same thigh that he pulled, the first time, is becoming the new danial agger, we have to make a Top Striker a priority in next transfer window, or our season will just slip away .

Unfortunately it is true and it may be the worst one of the lot.

Apparently he could be two months at least but further tests tomorrow.

We all know Danny is s brilliant footballer on his day however his day is few and far between.

Get in the transfer market and buy a striker who is going to peform week in week out or we risk mid table mediocrity

18 Nov 2014 21:46:23
FFS, this is a joke now! Its like he's hitting the 'Michael Owen Wonder Years' around 4 years too early. (as in "wonder when he'll next be fit. ")

Its true mate ffs i'm afraid. Were doomed. Another defeat on cards away at palace i bet also.

Chaps he won't get funds in jan like the eds have said we need to sell first. He has speant some 120m already. Very worrying times.

You have to feel for the lad, he's gone from playing the best football in his life to not playing whatseoever. Lacazette should be priority in January.

Red Rum

Couple of weeks back I said our season has ended, this just compounds things. Defeat or draw at Palace and I'm afraid Rodgers is gone.

18 Nov 2014 22:59:25
First and foremost when he's playing he's an enigma infront of goal. But Sturridge is a complete liability, the lad is made of glass. We need a goalscorer in the January transfer window, doesn't matter how much money we have, Liverpool football club MUST buy a goal scorer. Regardless of the clubs debt,, or financial fair play, end of the day this is football, and you don't win football matches without scoring goals. And not Mario Balotelli, Fabio Borini, Lambert or a forever injured Daniel Sturridge is going to get them goals we so desperately need. Sort it out Liverpool you don't sell the deadliest striker on the planet, and don't even attempt to bring in a goal threat,,, it's ridiculous

The only thing Mr D is that we can't blame BR for everything, but, a ten year old could see this happening, and we should have made Sturridge our 2nd striker, leaving our main striker the focal point, and having got so much money off two sales, we should have made that Top Striker a priority, not spending 40 million on three strikers who can't score, am gutted by this news .

I rather think we should have bought a good striker in the summer when we had the money.

Rodgers literally just spent £30M on 3 strikers 3 months ago and has spent ~£60M on 7 strikers specifically since he came in. I can't even begin to imagine FSG would authorize even more money we already don't have to be spent.

Well this season was kind of lost for us anyway in terms of top4 or a serious trophy, but this is really sad news for his long term future and ours.

For this year we all have to accept that we are a mid table team from now on (at best) and not have too many expectations about enjoying our matches just trying to scrap results when we don't play the big teams.

In terms of BR this can just save his job as everyone will argue that he is extremely unlucky.

Well there's no money to spend in January, we're pretty much out of the running for the league now, won't even mention our failure in the champions league. FA cup and League Cup won't wash for me, KK got sacked for that and so should BR. Sold our only world class player, didn't replace and sticks with failing players. Good bye Brendan and thank you for last season.

RDL, you have sumed up BR perfectly in regards to transfers. Utter uselessness!

18 Nov 2014 19:06:58
On the sturrdige debate can anyone say that he did no surprise them with his quality ?? I taught he would be a standard Liverpool transfer fail but my god he has done out standing he done a class job world class

18 Nov 2014 19:24:42
For me he is a player that is grabbing his moment as a player as too many wake up when it's too late and 30 is round the corner.Sturridge looks like he appreciates how dedicated you have to be to be at the top of your game.

Didn't surprise me at all, to be honest. The lad was very good at Bolton I thought and not half bad at Chelsea either despite being in and out of the squad and playing out of the position he preferred. The only thing he ever did wrong at Chelsea was perhaps try too hard- taking shots and such when he perhaps shouldn't in an effort to try and impress- and I think that's largely where the 'greedy' nonsense came from. I'm happy we got him and happy he's doing well, albeit I wish he would avoid the treatment table for a long while.

18 Nov 2014 21:09:33
I always thought he was a really good purchase; I thought he would be successful, but I never thought to this degree.

To injury prone, always has been

19 Nov 2014 00:29:10
Hi main man he prob still has more goals than the 28m pound man.Maybe it won't be too bad just 1 of them Seamus Coleman James McCarthy injuries.

18 Nov 2014 18:03:57
With Johnson likely to leave either in January or the summer and Manquillo only on loan, I think we should look at Nathaniel Clyne. I have said for a long time that I believe he will be England's first choice right back for many years and I wouldn't mind him being ours as well. He is solid defensively and offensively and would fit into our system really well.

Also I think we should look at 2 Chelsea players. Those players are Cech and Schurrle. Both presumably unhappy with the lack of playing time and would improve our team massively in 2 areas where we are currently struggling.

Finally, we need some extra fire power up front. We don't need a target man as we already have Lambert. Hopefully, Balotelli will be moved on in January and we can look to either Lacazetter or Berahino who would be a better fit into our system.

Personally, I'd be happy to offload Mignolet, Johnson, Enrique, Allen, Balotelli and Borini and bring in the above players (Cech, Clyne, Schurrle and Lacazette/Berahino). I know it won't happen though, but we need to bring in some quality.

Red Rum

Mignolet is still a very young keeper. All his deficiencies can be fixed but only with the right coaching.

Brining in a player like Cech is not the answer as he will want a long term contract and a very expensive one of that. Mourinho will not allow Cech to come to LFC anyway while he is still under contract with Chelsea and most definitely will not sell us Schurrle either. Scurrle in any case is not the type of player we need.

Lacazette, well, it is strange that we did not show more interest in him. That is the type of player we needed. Creates something out of nothing. Gutted we lost out on Sanchez. He has fitted into English football seamlessly.

18 Nov 2014 18:39:45
Red-Rum , you have not suggested how you would persuade Clyne to drop from a Champion's League spot to mid table .

18 Nov 2014 19:27:36
Ritters there is no prizes giving out in November let's see come May will he have to drop down.

18 Nov 2014 13:00:04
I can't believe how low you all rate Sturridge!

22 goals and 9 assists in 2267 minutes of football last season! A goal/assist every 73 minutes. (Doesn't take his clubs penalties)

Aguero got 17 goals and 10 assists in 1526 minutes. A goal or assist every 56 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties)

Costa got 27 goals and 5 assists in 2952 minutes. A goal or assist every 92 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties)

Ibrahimovic got 26 goals and 16 assists in 2766 minutes. A goal or assist every 66 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties)

Suarez got 31 goals and 21 assists in 2962 minutes. A goal or assist every 56 minutes. (Doesn't take his clubs penalties)

Benzema got 17 goals and 10 assists in 2748 minutes. A goal or assist every 102 minutes. (Doesn't take his clubs penalties)


Lewandowski got 20 goals and 11 assists in 2799 minutes. A goal or assist every 90 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties)

Neymar got 9 goals and 10 assists. A goal or assist every 91 minutes. (Doesn't take his clubs penalties)

Ronaldo got 31 goals and 11 assists. A goal or assist every 60 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties and isn't a striker anyway)

Messi got 28 goals and 12 assists in 2498 minutes. A goal or assist every 62 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties and isn't a striker anyway - or at least not an orthodox one)

Falcao got 9 goals and 0 assists in 1389 minutes. A goal or assist every 154 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties and not even sure how he deserved a mention to be honest)

Van Persie got 12 goals and 3 assists in 1578 minutes. A goal or assist every 105 minutes. (Doesn't take his clubs penalties - again, not sure how he got a mention)

Rooney got 17 goals and 12 assists in 2446 minutes. A goal or assist every 84 minutes. (Takes his clubs penalties but agin isn't really a striker anymore)

So let's just play devils advocate for a minute and say everybody here is a striker. In order of goals and asssits per minutes played they are ranked as follows:

1. Suarez
2. Aguero
3. Ronaldo
4. Messi
5. Ibra
6. Sturridge
7. Rooney
8. Lewandowski
9. Neymar
10. Costa
11. Benzema
12. RVP
13. Falcao

So there you go. Sturridge is 6th if we for some reason say Ronaldo and Messi are strikers. Suarez is clealry in another league to the lot of them though considering he didn't even take penalties. In fact, in the top 6 players on this list, only Sturridge and Suarez didn't take penalties last season for their clubs.

So there you go. Me saying Sturridge is in the top 5 strikers in the world is not at all biased. In fact, based on every players most recent season, it is 100% fact so long as you accept at least one of Ronaldo and Messi aren't actually strikers. He is actually top 4 if you don't include either of them.

Like I say, it was purely my opinion, but I just wanted to prove my opinion had genuine reasoning behind it. Honestly can't believe anybody mentioned Falcao. It's just embarassed him including him on this list. He is 50 minutes worse than even Van Persie and 98 minutes behind Suarez and Aguero!

Everybody here seems to be clinging to the fact that Sturridge will come back and save our season and yet the same people in some cases clearly don't even think he is that good a player! This confirms what I've always thought; Sturridge is the most under rated striker in the world and Falcao is the most over rated.

How many times did Sturridge and Suarez play in the champions league last season?

Yaya toure takes man citys penalties

Can always tell its a post by Adam. When my finger starts to hurt with scrolling down 😯

18 Nov 2014 13:56:05
Adam, I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I agree that Sturridge to us is as important as any other striker in the world.

However, you cannot purely use statistics to back up your views. Here's a few reasons why:

1) Any striker can have a great season, conversely any striker can have a poor season. Using Falcao as an example, yes, last season was pretty poor, but between 2012-2013 at AM, he scored 70 goals in 90 appearances, which is a completely different spin altogether! Not saying Falcao is the mutts nuts or anything, but taking a season in isolation is not adequate.

2) A striker depends a lot on the team around them. Torres scored so many, in a large part, because Rafa set up the team to compliment him. One could argue that Sturridge scored so many because he was playing with Suarez. I hope not, bit we won't know until he's back as this season will be the first long run of games he's had with us without Suarez in the team.

I go back to my first point, its very difficult to compare strikers on a like for like basis. Instead, although it is subjective, its best to consider how important they are to their team. Surez has proven that he was crucial to Liverpool, and maybe less important at Barcelona given the other players around him. I would struggle to find any striker as important to a team as Sturridge currently is to us. That is in no small part due to his ability (when fit) but also down to our woeful ability to find someone else to play with, and replace him when he is out.

Z

Do it on goals only. See how it looks. I honestly don't know but for me forwards are there to stick it in the bag. Assists are a bonus if you ask me.

Also if you're going to ridicule RVP and Falcaos goals per minute, and not take into account their injuries. How can you say Studge is currently the top 5 striker, when he hasn't featured for like 2 1/2 months. Neglecting the fact that he no longer has(what many see) the worlds best striker up there with him.

Surely going by this sort of data, Alfreð Finnbogason has to be the most underrated? taken away the extra goal you gave daniel sturride, he's got a better record

CL appearances are irrelevant as it's only league stats included here to prevent that skew. Aguero definitely took some penalties last season but you are right. Yaya also took them.

Goals only top 5 is:

Aguero
Suarez
Ronaldo
Messi
Sturridge

So all that really does is reaffirm my position.

Bobatron, you know you're just being ridiculous now. It's not worth my time replying if you're in that kind of mood.

I can't believe some pleb actually disagreed with my comment Yaya Toure takes Man citys penalties.You get some weapon heads on here.

Oh and Bobatron, I took all my stats from the same website so if Sturridges are wrong, the others are just as likely to be as well. Stop nit picking and accept that this clearly proves he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as these players. I even stated it is still my opinion. For example, I think Costa is better than Rooney and Lewandowski contrary to what this list suggests. Just stop being such a bloody whinging git!

Totally agree EMS mate .Sturridge last season was the second best striker in the Prem . behind Suarez .

Sturridge has done everything asked of him and its a shame that some supposed fans of ours are willing to Argue that at present Van Persie is better .

How many of those players would perform as well in a team without a team choc full of world class players ?In a league with far greater levels of competition ?

Sturridge helped propel a team with let's face it and average squad to almost take the title . Shame to see that fact is lost on many of you .

{Ed001's Note - Van Persie has been poor this season, the only way he has been better than Sturridge is that he has stayed fit. As performance wise, he has been well below par.}

"I can't believe how low you all rate Sturridge"

I really don't know who this is aimed at as i have seen a lot of posts saying that we will improve when Sturridge returns. For me, there is no doubt that when he returns we will see a big improvement in the final third. However, I don't think for a second that his return will automatically fix the defensive and midfield problems. That is another topic though.

Red Rum

What's the ridiculous bit? That you've used a clear set of stats to prove a point, yet completely ignored some other striker(s)
Champions league makes a hell of a difference, it can be an extra 6-13 games. Factor in also the bundesliga only has 18 teams to play, so you're possibly missing some whipping boys.

You even at the end suggest that contrary to your statistics you think Costa, is better than lewandoski and rooney! Do you not see the complete contradiction in your entire point!?

What contradiction? I've made it clear that I do not think these stats are the be all and end all. However they do give me foundations for my argument that in my opinion Sturridge is in the top 5 strikers in the world.

My opinion can't be wrong. So just back off mate!

So you're happy using them to back up your opinion on sturridge, but neglect them for your opinion on costa.


for the love of god don't ever become a politician or councillor EMS to people will eat you alive.

18 Nov 2014 15:29:23
EMS, If Sturridge repeats last season form and goal return then no one can argue with you. But you can't base your argument on one season and in particular he had a strike partner that was involved in 85% of the goals.
But I certainly agree with you on Falcoa , I have n't seen anything special from him for the past few years, even before the injury. He had one good season and people clanged to that .

Bob (do you mind if I call you bob? You're not a transformer), you need to get into your head why I presented these stats.

People questioned my motives for saying Sturridge was in the top 5 in the world in his position, even calling my bias.

I am not suggesting these stats are the finalised order of ranking. The way you present stats can be just as subjective as a basic statement. However they do give me some leverage for my opinion on Sturridge. I rate Costa for other reasons. He scored and assisted less per minute but played in a very defensive system. His conversion rate was phenomenal. I'm not going into that.

My point is, these stats if nothing else just show that it is not unreasonable to mention Sturridge in the same breath as the Costas and Lewandowskis of the world.

You are making an argument out of nothing and embarassing yourself.

18 Nov 2014 15:38:24
Yeh bobatron stop disagreeing with him!!! Lol honestly ems take those tinted specs off, u need your head looking at if u think some of those strikers and sturridge are equals. Why don't u go on foot steps in the opposition half, u might be able to claim summit there to, or forward passes? Surely that would show carragher should of played AM because he always passes forward? 😃

Roy I think you're over estimating how many of Sturridges goals were assisted by Suarez. He scored about 5/6 before Luis even played so that's a quarter. So even if Suarez assisted the others he still couldn't get that high a percentage involvement. Sturridge was definitely assisted bt Sterling, Gerrard and Coutinho at least twice each.

From memory alone, I'm sure Sturridge set up more of Suarez's goals than vice versa.

The only reason I used each players most recent season is because I don't feel comfortable using two year old stats to judge a players goals to gane ratio. Besides, Sturridge has been consistent since he got here. 38 in 52 games isn't it? Don't hold me to that but it's there or there abouts.

Poll of the day question Ed. Is Sturridge world class?

{Ed001's Note - ok I have added that to the pot.}

18 Nov 2014 16:08:55
Got to be honest and say I'm a little embarrassed reading some of the posts. I'm not a college professor or a rocket scientist but EMS is trying to make a fairly simple post. Firstly its his opinion, which he is entitled to, and secondly he is trying to show that his opinion has some substance as others disagreed. Everyone has a different opinion on matters like this I.e. Ronaldo or Messi??. He's not trying to force his opinions on others, just sharing them. Maybe Bobatron should share his opinions in a post rather than slag off others.

I think you are missing the point of having an opinion . its just that . an opinion.

EMS made a good point and there is some debate but let's face it the ONLY player in the prem that had a better season than Sturridge in the Prem last year was Suarez .

The point is not that is is necessarily better than this player or that but that some people on this thread you know who you are :

1) Massively under appreciate our most important player .

2) Think that reputation means more than ability & performance.

3) Think the french/portuguese leagues are on a par with the prem .

4 ) Need to keep taking their meds.

18 Nov 2014 16:21:46
EMS, ignore the 85% of the goals thingy --my mistake , this is some fancy opta stats that Suarez was involved in 85% of Liverpool's goal directly or indirectly (I would guess it means he made a run that allowed spaces to be available to someone to score or pass to the goal scorer --blah blah).
My point that he had a partner that made it easier. And yes he did it on his own in few games. But my point about another season still stands , considering his history. The thing that was always associated with him before coming to us, is that he never achieved his potential. He needs to show consistency and if he pulls it off this season then you have my 100% agreement.

Cheers Lincoln/Kobi. I'm glad at least two people didn't miss the point of this post.

Sturridge actually has a slightly higher goal scoring rate for us without Suarez on the pitch.

Sturridge's record in the league for us combined is played 3, 672 minutes, scored 33, assisted 14, for one goal every 110 minutes.

His record while Suarez was banned was 1, 074 minutes played, scored 10, assisted 1, for one goal every 107 minutes.

People say he's only been good for us for 18 months, but he was quite good at Chelsea played largely wide left- 13 goals, 6 assists in 2, 879 minutes.

When he was younger than Coutinho is now and at Bolton, played centrally, he had 8 goals in 972 minutes.

Last year he scored 21 league goals with 99 shots. That's an incredible non-penalty conversion rate and probably the best or one of the best in Europe for any striker (by comparison Mario had 7 with 140+ shots with Milan last year, Suarez 31 with 170+ shots for us last season).

He's a very good striker, however you want to rate him, and that's been pretty well shown throughout his career even when he was still very young.

My God how can grown men waffle on for this long about a player.
Who cares what his states were as long as he gets fit, brings his class to the front third and hopefully finds the net.
Would be absolutely fantastic if he could stay injury free too for a few months so hopefully the team regain some of their positivity that seems to have been sucked or get out of them by a meddling manager.

Good post RDL. i suspected as much but didn't have time to find the stats.

You have just jinxed him Mcgoveb!

Good god Irish I just got up this morning to the news he's crocked again, what an utter disaster.
Just reiterates the huge failing in not bringing in a top class striker to replace Suarez, we all knew a Daniel was made of glass and now he's out again
Season over😢, will the last one out lock the gates.

Hows this season scoring rewcord going for him then, 1 goal in 270 minuts of football and no assists. Like I say stats can be manipulated.

EMS iw asn't embarrassing myself, what's embarrassing is that you actually think he's a top 5 striker in the world. And that you actually say falcao shouldn't deserve a metion for a top 5 place. That's truly truly embarassing

18 Nov 2014 12:20:06
Taking a world football view for a moment - does anyone else feel it would be a shame if De Boer left Ajax this season? He seems to have so much he could still do there and see the rewards of the changes he's made, I would really like to see where he could take them - even if it's just back to absolute dominance of their league

18 Nov 2014 09:58:05
Question for eds r any reds that know much about origi I watched him against Wales and he seemed to struggle a bit but I know he is young but in a couple of years do any of you think he will be knocking in double figures in the premiership which is what is expected of r strikers if we r to be successful.

{Ed001's Note - he is just a kid with potential.}