Liverpool Banter Archive March 18 2015

 

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18 Mar 2015 22:48:35
Eds (posters as well) you mentioned owners wanting success and that their main priority is the league and sorry if this has been covered, but do they have ambitions of establishing LFC as one of the European elite and so you event think that is possible?

Genuinely think finances are often an easy excuse regarding domestic titles and cups (with the added CL push) as think you need a good XI and some experience plus utilising your academy to fight for the title (like we did last season or dortmund).

But radio on way home talked of city and United needing to spend £100m to get where they want to be and think they have a point. With the money in football's elite to be a club to try win the treble or double every season seem to need either a starting XI of the worlds elite (barca/real) or two sets of great players (bayern), but could you not maybe get teams fighting for every trophy without the massive expenditure?

So to sum do you think it is possible to make a team to fight for every trophy not a shoe string budget but on won similar to what say Liverpool could afford?

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{Ed001's Note - yes, with good management and buying the right players. City and United have bought badly, that is why they are still looking to buy.}

19 Mar 2015 07:17:55
The irony Roland-dinho is that United's best team was established by 5-6 players from the youth set up.
Without those players then United's dominance would have never happened.
Buy quality players to supplement a great youth set up is the ideal way forward for me.

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19 Mar 2015 08:43:24
Completely agree with Jonny.

From all accounts, we have a very decent crop of players coming through the youth ranks, a la mancs in 1990s, with a few potential superstars in their midst - Sterling and Ibe being prime examples who have already broken through and players like Ojo and Williams not far behind.

We need the right environment for them to be introduced into the first team gradually and build on the understanding they would have developed in the youth set up.

And let's not get hung up on whether they were bought young or joined the academy as boys - Sterling and Ibe were bought and they promise as great things as Stevie and Carra who were developed. Its the understanding between them that's most important.

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18 Mar 2015 21:57:08
Eds, fellow reds, hi eds would you be able to do a poll for fans and eds .for them to predict top 4 .just for fun .cheers kingluis74

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{Ed001's Note - how can that be done as a poll?}

19 Mar 2015 08:38:15
To Ed001 - "Predict the top 4" and then have "Yes" and "No" as responses ;-)

That should baffle a few!

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{Ed001's Note - that could be fun....}

18 Mar 2015 21:01:44
Ok soooo highly doubt barca will look to move on messi he is well and truly back

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{Ed002's Note - They would love to sell him but there will be no takers.}

19 Mar 2015 07:29:18
He is miles above anyone that have makes great players look average

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19 Mar 2015 07:49:09
Any chance of getting Messi on loan next season eds? Even if it's just for one match ?
Just to see IF he can do it on a wet cold rainy night in Stoke

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18 Mar 2015 19:21:42
Top 4 or not Rogers is going nowhere, I am convinced the owners will stand by him for at least one more season.

These owners don`t act on instinct, unlike a lot of folks on here, they know good things take time and we at last have a solid base on which to build over the next few years, but we must keep our best players and add only real, ready to go quality.

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{Ed002's Note - You don't know much about the owners. They demand success. Rodgers promised that and has failed completely. He may well keep his job but he will be gone immediately if Liverpool have another poor start to the season.}

18 Mar 2015 19:32:07
Wow. To the point Ed But right i suppose.

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18 Mar 2015 20:08:21
Fickle

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18 Mar 2015 21:59:53
Eds if the owners demand success, how did BR see xmas, and who do you think they would look at next time a more experienced man or another BR type manager .

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{Ed002's Note - Done to death.}

19 Mar 2015 00:11:46
BR is on thin ice REGARDLESS of if he keeps his job this year. People should just stop placing their opinions as if they were the owners. People thought KK would not be let go by the owners YET he got the boot. If the owners could do that to a club legend after failure, BR has no chance in hell of keeping his job if they think he has failed and based on his pre-season promises, he has failed.

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19 Mar 2015 07:24:25
Sacking Rodgers calls their own judgement into question.
They only sacked Hodgson because they were forced to by the fans.
I don't buy this idea that they are trigger happy.
Yes they want success but they look like they are the type to build towards that success rather than expecting it instantly.

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19 Mar 2015 08:12:41
Jonny - if you think Rogers is building towards anything if he has yet another bad start to the season (bear in mind that will be 4 years in a row where he has screwed up the start of the season) then you are deluded. If he does enough this year to put us back into a decent position to start next year then fair enough (i.e. Champions League and hopefully the FA Cup as well) but this is the last time he can allow another awful start

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19 Mar 2015 11:31:12
Please see how the owners acted with regards toward the Redsox before saying you ''don't buy'' something. History there and here would suggest that abject failure in the face of expenditure, will result in being given your marching orders

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19 Mar 2015 17:48:15
Thanks for the deluded comment. Classy.
This is the last time he can have a poor start. According to you.
The owners have said nothing to back you or me up.
It is just conjecture.
My point is that he is their choice of manager.
If they sack him then they are to blame for having poor judgement in the first place.
I don't think he is a bad choice, I think he is a brilliant choice, I just hope they have the balls to see it through to the end with no knee jerk reactions ie. sacking him.
Long term I think they will be rewarded by choosing him as manager.

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{Ed002's Note - They know he was a poor choice and that has been borne out of the vast amounts of money spent and the complete lack of any success. They have had people reviewing the club from top to bottom and have made many changes already as I have explained. Now the money has gone and the club is in very significant debt with on going FFP issues. His promise to challenge in the Champions League and to win or challenge for the EPL has been replaced by him saying that getting a top four place will be a better achievement than last season. His media skills and his foot & mouth problem are an absolute joke. He has publically discussed internal club issues regarding players all season.}

20 Mar 2015 07:28:37
Wow a manager who exaggerates what they might achieve.
Blow me down with a feather!!!!

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{Ed001's Note - what manager does that then? They usually do the opposite. Your comment is just the idiotic retort of someone with no real comeback. It is a waste of time my replying as you clearly made no point, but I am doing it because it is not usual for you.}

20 Mar 2015 07:39:11
Sorry Ed.
I just don't agree with that.
While going from 2nd from 7th is not success it is progress.
If they can't see that then they are blind and incompetent.
Also I thought we have a transfer committee to spend the "vast amounts of money" you talk about.
You can't pin it on the manager if he only gets 25% of the decision making process can you?
As for his media skills. yes they are crap but so are a lot of managers in the premier league.
In fact I don't listen to a word any of them really say without taking it with a large pinch of salt.
I get the impression that you just don't like him.

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{Ed001's Note - it is only progress if the following season you don't go from being 2nd to struggling to get into the top 4. If you can't see that then you are blinded by Rodgers' pearly whites. It is incompetent to see progress when none is being made.

The transfer committee had deals set up that were vetoed by Rodgers, in favour of his signings. Remy, for instance, so yes he can be blamed for the club having to spend nearly 3 times as much to buy Balotelli instead. I am not sure how blind and incompetent you would have to be to see Balotelli is not a better option than Remy, even though I don't rate Remy either. So yes, I can pin it on the manager, as he had the final say, which he is keen to mention whenever he can.

As for not liking him, I don't see the relevance, you may be unable to separate personal feelings, clearly, but some of us are capable of being rational in our decision making process. Rodgers has failed to reach the targets he set out himself. No one expected him to win the league this year, no matter what he said, but he mismanaged the team and tactics so badly that we aren't even in position to challenge. That is unacceptable that we are scraping around chasing Arsenal's 4th placed trophy. Everyone laughs at Arsenal fans for accepting that each year, yet Liverpool fans are now trying to claim it is an achievement! It is not an achievement when you finished 2nd the previous season and spent huge sums of money building a squad to do even better.}

18 Mar 2015 18:28:18
Maybe mario should do his talking on the pitch, you would think he would have learnt his lesson about social media.
Must be awful being mario ballotelli. Lol
Shut up yourself and score some goals mate.

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18 Mar 2015 19:43:32
Needs to play to score would you not agree

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18 Mar 2015 19:43:34
just saved me posting the same view!

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18 Mar 2015 20:16:36
MIKEY1985

Could it be possible for you to be less rude about our Mario, as my granny says she woulden't mind spending some firework nights over at his place .

Stucture is what Mario needs (as does society), which is what we were discussing the other month.

To start with, i used her age as an example ( 78 not the full shilling, heart of gold , would willingly offer someone needy her last thrupenny bit ! )

As it is polite to ask an old lady her age, i did, (even though i knew).

She answered in her own inimitable way, by passing wind 78 times, or so she implied ( i fazzed out on 9 )

I can confirm, her diet is mixed and she's getting plenty of veg.

Could it be considered ill of me, having not visited since, and, shall i return her tights.


Not all of the above rhetoric, can be proved to be factual or farcical.


YNWA

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18 Mar 2015 21:29:23
To (kinda) quote our inimitable owner, sizemick what are you smoking, dude?

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18 Mar 2015 22:23:05
Sizemick. What on earth!

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19 Mar 2015 06:53:05
Can I borrow the tights Mick?
Got a little job in mind and they could come in handy.

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19 Mar 2015 07:31:19
Into some kinky stuff there mick

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19 Mar 2015 07:33:33
Maybe sizemick is mario and after reading my post he's gone so angry that he's actually lost it. Haha
And I think he has played plenty of games to score and hasn't. I think it's possible the club has fined him more times than goals scored.

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19 Mar 2015 02:56:56
Quite the expert on "wind" are we sizemick?

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18 Mar 2015 16:04:10
A personal opinion I have regarding this fourth place malarkey.

I find it incredibly difficult to digest the fact if there was a toss-up between the FA Cup or Fourth place i'd take the latter. It's sad, I don't think I am the only one who is under this strange illusion, it for me is totally wrong and as a supporter of a club which is famous for the trophies they've won it doesn't follow with what LFC stands for. My suggestion and it may sound ludicrous to some of you but take away fourth position and offer The Champions League place to the winners of the FA Cup, fourth place qualification for the Champions League would only count if somebody within the top 3 of the EPL won the FA cup. For me, it brings the magic back to the club and would also give the cup and more significant financial incentive. The same could be said to the other countries in Europe, after all it is called The Champions League and a Cup winner is much more of a Champion than 4th. That's just my opinion though.

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18 Mar 2015 16:23:54
I think the saddest and maddest thing is that we have a full compliment of proven experienced players and are discussing 'should we go for this or that?'. If we were talking about prioritising the CL/EL and FA cup that's one thing - still wrong but doing more than a double is very rare in England. But we have a squad that should be easily able to challenge in the League and manage one cup competition to the end. If it can't there is either something very wrong with our players, or very wrong with the way they are trained

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18 Mar 2015 17:05:48
There's only three games left in the cup if we did reach the final. So surely we can compete on both fro t's.

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18 Mar 2015 17:26:44
I personally think cups should be allocated the champions league places for a few years as a trial. At least it will be the champions league then and not arsenal competing for yhe fourth place cup every year.

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{Ed002's Note - So you would be happy with Liverpool coming third in the league and no getting in to the Champions League? I doubt you will get many in agreement.}

18 Mar 2015 22:30:10
May not word it correctly but if you ignored finances (which obviously you can't, but if we didn't need CL money to comply with FFP) would much rather win the FA cup then finish fourth.

Football is about trophies and as much as I love European nights at anfield and watching lfc play the best, trophies are what counts. Weird example but take Gerrards late equaliser last time we won the FA cup, would that goal be anywhere near as memorable if it secured is CL qualification?

Obviously this season top four is more important due to finances which can't be ignored, but from a non business perspective take the cup all day! Also don't think we have a realistic chance of winning the CL of we qualify anyway

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19 Mar 2015 07:30:23
Bring the cup winners cup back.
There was nothing wrong with the european competitions as they were before this champions league rubbish.

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19 Mar 2015 07:32:49
My point is is that many people say success is winning stuff but winning stuff doesn't get you much in the way of finances that getting fourth place does- which isn't winning anything. I simply think it should be tried as it rewards those who actually try to win things, which is what football should be about.

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19 Mar 2015 07:38:42
We need need need to win both to make sure its not a complete failure of a season

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18 Mar 2015 10:59:00
I have my own take on Rodgers, Liverpool and other things which i'm sure many of you will totally dis-agree with and maybe just maybe a minority may agree with. So heres my take.

Rodgers, if only he could drop the ego and accept his role, concentrate on what he is excellent at and be a coach. Nobody can doubt that he is a exceptional trainer, I think his sessions would be a dream to work under day in day out and a lot of players have come some way in his time at Liverpool.

A DOF is such a frowned apon position in football as the Denis Wise and Joe Kinnear stereotypes come to mind but in actual fact it is the way any business should operate with a manager overseeing the day to day business issues, a manager running the recruitment and youth and a manager to run the 'on field' matters. Not one man solely can be responsible for everything, it takes a team of successful people to sustain the integrity of a great football club and continue to see the club to grow and be successful.

Success is based on so many levels, Arsenal financially are successful because of their consistency in qualifying for the major completions year in year out and in terms of recruitment have purchased well (mainly) and sold players for more than they originally bought them for. Ask a arsenal fan about success, they will look at what happens on the field & most will accept they have been far from successful and haven't won enough over the years and some will complain they have sold their best players to their rivals. Success is such a broad word.

We can look at Rodgers, compliment his training methods etc but both on and off the field we have seen little success so far. Some bad buys and money lost on players who have been given little to no chance at the club has damaged us greatly, the way we threw away the league last year and then the way we bowed out at the Champions League this year after a so many year wait has left us all feeling under the cloud of anti-climax. To have spent all this money in the summer and not to be competing for the league or in Europe is a great barometer of how unsuccessful we are. i'm not one in believing in giving the players 6 months to settle etc they train every day and are paid great sums of money for being experts in their field they should be able to hit the ground running quicker than that, a bit of a settling in patch for sure but not 6 months of a season surely? That's 6 months we aren't ever getting back. He needs to win things, simple he needs a good head running the off field matters and someone he can work not under or above but beside. Until that happens we will continue to build sandcastles for then to be washed away for us to rebuild over again.

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18 Mar 2015 14:55:57
Couldnt agree more, great post.

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18 Mar 2015 15:53:06
The champions league even to qualify from the group's is very very tough at first time of asking even for teams that have a few years experience in it don't qualify from the group.

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18 Mar 2015 16:25:02
They rarely have groups as easy as us Mighty. All we had to do to qualify was show up but we failed to even do that. Look at Basel in the next round - absolutely smashed by an average Porto. Yes it's hard but our performance was pathetic.

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18 Mar 2015 16:39:44
That is total disrespect to Basle who are a much more experienced European team than us at the moment, we had no divine right to qualify and the most important thing is to improve hopefully next season.

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18 Mar 2015 17:06:49
Clearly we have no 'divine right'. What the hell is a 'divine right'? I'm talking about pure, on field quality. We have much more than Basel and utterly failed to display it

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18 Mar 2015 18:16:12
Obviously it wasn't an easy group, we didn't perform at the time and Basle did, as long as we learn from the experience then it will be worth while, the problem is with fans in this country is we under estimate other European sides.

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18 Mar 2015 19:04:12
Hjikle is right. No excuses ! I went to all the home ties in the CL this season and we was nothing short of pathetic. The main problem was dodgy defending and no fit goalscorer. We seriously can't let a transfer window pass us by again and not cover our main areas on the pitch. Skrtel upfront vs Basel for the last 20. From Suarez to Skrtel shouldn't be happening for a club like Liverpool

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18 Mar 2015 21:09:22
We have needed "quality" players for a long time, the last top player we had was Suarez who carried the attack and made certain players look better, DBol is right and i said it at the time, you can't ignore replacing top strikers in a transfer window and expect to progress in Europe against teams who are well organized, (we weren't) the club failed to buy and paid the price.

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19 Mar 2015 00:17:18
Big up to you, Apple! You have made by far the most brilliant post on these boards for months. Could not agree more. Take a bow, sir!

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19 Mar 2015 07:54:37
I agree on the director of football bit.
I think it is a bit of a red herring though.
Do we honestly think that the things a director of football does are not being done at the club now anyway?
Don't agree with your expectations of where Liverpool should be having spent all this money etc etc etc.
When Rodgers took over what were your expectations?
What are your expectations now?
He has raised expectations due to the job he is doing now.
As for wasting money. Only Balotelli has been a waste of money in my opinion out of this season's buys.
All the other players look to have great potential for a good coach to bring the best out of them and you admit that he is a very good coach.
If Rodgers stays for 5 years at this club we win the league.
There I said it.
People may disagree and fair play for having an opinion, that is why I love this site.
But for me we win the league with this manager if he stays for 2 more seasons.
And I will go further than that and say . If we do win the league under Rodgers then we will win several/multiple titles under him.
1st one is always the hardest though.
The English league is crap at the moment.
Chelsea have improved but everyone else has dipped this year.
Whether posters on here want to admit it or not, this has been a transitional season for us.
If we finish top 4 after signing so many players at the start of this season then I think it's a great achievement.
Overhaul at United and City next season means transition, Arsenal Chelsea and us will have settled squads and that gives us an advantage we did not have this year.
Rodgers is not the finished article. some aspects of his management are still poor but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

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18 Mar 2015 09:32:34
Is this you Ed002?

Commentator Alan Green
at Stade Louis II for 5 live Sport
Monaco 0-1 Arsenal (Agg 3-2)
Posted at
"There's a guy in front of me who's wearing a full head-to-toe Chelsea tracksuit. He keeps doing laps of the stadium and is smoking very strong-looking French cigarettes. What's his interest in this match?"

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{Ed002's Note - I would never wear a tracksuit.}

18 Mar 2015 11:10:54
Ed they r doing them in xxxl now.just saying.

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18 Mar 2015 11:48:35
We all know that Ed002 goes out in public naked.

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18 Mar 2015 09:01:56
I've been really snowed under with work for my degree lately so haven't been able to post or even follow the site.

Hope everyone is well though. I'll be back as a regular in the summer to get back into the arguments (sorry, debates).

If we beat United this weekend then I will fully hold my hands up and apologise for doubting we could get top 4. I don't think it completely justifies Rodgers keeping his job, but a trophy and a top 4 finish would probably save his job; regardless of whether or not the owners insist on a DoF.

Take care lads.

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18 Mar 2015 10:33:09
Hope its going well mate.

Thought you had been off trying to woo the ex back hence the lack of posts.

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{Ed002's Note - It is a case of priorities EMS. Follow the site and go to the library and educate yourself.}

18 Mar 2015 18:28:55
You need to fully apologise for some of the disrespectful and disgraceful comments aimed at the manager.

You really post well EMS, but your comments directed at the manager through some of the clubs difficult times this season was disgusting.

Good luck anyway.

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18 Mar 2015 07:54:38
Hi eds,

Any chance we can have an "lfc player bashing page"? That way we can have some more chat about our great run since mid dec? Seems a lot of fans on here aren't happy unless their slagging one of our own off. Sterling, sturridge the most recent ones. It's absolutely appalling.

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{Ed001's Note - I suppose we could put those kind of posts on the others page.}

18 Mar 2015 11:24:04
Could we have a blinkered page where we ignore when a player is playing really bad and still praised?

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18 Mar 2015 12:33:10
Yep. Cause those are of course the only two options - discuss dropping or even 'getting rid' of players because they have had a few off games (often as a result of being shuffled around positions or coming back from injury etc) or mindless praise every player every time they blink. Literally the only possible way things can be done

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18 Mar 2015 12:51:26
touched a nerve there jack?

as a fan of lfc i don't enjoy a page full of sterling and sturridge abuse personally, particularly when it is in the main unwaranted. players have bad patches of form but that is when they need support more than usual.

it's all too easy to support and rave about your team and players when times are good.

i'm far from blinkered and have been frustrated beyond beleif at times this season.

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18 Mar 2015 12:53:45
and players don't have to be praised when in bad form. i don't think it's too much to ask to give someone like studge time to come back from what has been a massive layoff without questioning his ability and attitude.

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17 Mar 2015 22:26:54
Eds, in your opinion how do you see the future of wages in football? A couple of things have led me to question what could happen.
Firstly, FFP.
But more then that, it's the amount of times I read clubs can't wait to get rid of X player due to his huge wages. Recently, Ibrahimovic and Falcao. Maybe also City and Yaya.
It seems these clubs where happy (maybe wrong phrase?) to pay Falcao, Zaltan et al 250k a week and now would love to get that wage off their books.
Liverpool have apparently introduced a wage 'structure' involving performance and it seems the club will benefit and not replace the wages of Gerrard or Johnson to another individual. This is to help the long term of the club.
So could the clubs look towards a wage cap? Is it the agents causing this and will there be any changes in that area?

How would 33yr old Ibrahimovic move anywhere on his current 250k a week? Will old contracts start to cripple clubs?

Will there only be an elite group who own the best and then create a new euro league if players demand upwards of £100k p/w?

Just wondered if anyone else is thinking this can't go on and as an example how can Man Utd survive with at least three players currently on wages totalling £750k let alone the remaining 30 man squad.

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{Ed002's Note - I really don't like talking wages but wage caps do exist in some countries. Sometimes for individuals and sometimes across squads. The FFP rules limit the increase in wages a club can make year on year but a slapped wrist is all that will ever be meted out as punishment. Eventually the pan-European breakaway will happen and the structure of many European leagues will need to change.}

18 Mar 2015 02:47:01
France has a wage cap which is run by the DNCG (the French wage regulatory commitee). If clubs cannot provide guaranties before the season beins, they are relegated to a lower division for a certain period pending the club getting it`s hous in order. If the club still cannot do that, they are relegated for sure. Same goes for clubs promoted to a higher division.

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18 Mar 2015 09:34:02
Ed002 do you see the European break away as a positive move? I'm not to fond of it personally.

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{Ed002's Note - I think it is a natural progression and it has been discussed as a concept since the G-14 days. When the ECA took over the discussions moved to a subset of clubs that were meeting each August, then twice a year and now it looks like three times a year is becoming the norm - and there is a meeting scheduled for tomorrow and Friday. It will be a step change when it eventually happens.}

18 Mar 2015 10:06:30
How are clubs being selected for it ed? Performance based or Money based?

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{Ed002's Note - Initially it will be those that actively participate in the talks. One or two have been added and a couple have dropped out in the past two years. Subsequently, you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league.

18 Mar 2015 15:25:00
And I still don't think it'll happen

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