Liverpool Banter Archive September 17 2013

 

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17 Sep 2013 22:42:13
Ok. Now before I start this post, I would just like to say how much I want to be proved wrong. But when I watch Henderson play, I fail to see what he adds to the team. Yes, he runs up and down, but he actually hardly ever applies significant pressure to the attacker or puts in a tackle. He shadows them, but doesn't properly close them down to win us possession. Granted, he scores the odd goal, but considering how good everyone seems to think he is, he should score more. He looks fairly nervous most times he is taking a player on, and he doesn't add much to the defending side of the team either. It feels like we're playing with 10 men. And I'm not trying to be negative, I'm as delighted with our manager and start to the season as I can remember, but to be honest we look fairly weak in midfield. Lucas is very good on his day, but awful off it. Gerrard, as much as he's been a legend, gives away the ball far too much with long passes that go astray. I've already covered Henderson, and Coutinho is fantastic on form, but hasn't had a great start to the season. Not saying we're getting relegated, but I'm just saying don't get carried away. Peace out.

BigRedF

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Of the ball Henderson covers so much ground and is excellent shelvey only done the back pass because a Henderson closing him down but also on another level I seen a lot of people saying he'll take over from Gerrard but he isn't good enough on the ball never going to pick out a amazing pass so on so on

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Agree re Henderson, hope he proves me wrong but can't see it. Posted a few weeks back saying to be top centre mid you have to be outstanding at one aspect, tackling/defensive duties, distribution/long and short passing, goalscoring or generally being a leader, unfortunately he doesn't stand out in any of the above.

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Henderson should play more through the middle he's constantly stuck in a wide position. that doesn't help his cause at all. I still think he should start, especially when we have so much injuries to our defense, he always tracks back to help the fullbacks which is invaluable especially now as we have started playing this defensive game in second halves. He has to improve his finishing though. cause he gets himself in goal scoring positions quite often.

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If he's going to hold down a starting place for Liverpool his workrate won't be enough. I don't think hell ever dominate a game from center midfield and isn't a winger. granted the lad has a great attitude and workrate and his form is good, but if coutinhio was fit and suarez due back he would have made way.

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17 Sep 2013 22:15:50
I was just wondering if it would be possible for Inglethorpe to have a word during halftime of the next senior team game? No idea what happened there, but that was quite the turnaround. Well done to the U21s!

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17 Sep 2013 21:48:26
The U21's looked superb before.

Sterling was sensational, Rossiter looks like a real talent, and Alberto scored a great hat trick.

However, Tiago Ilori is just on another level at the moment. He looks like a first team centre back playing with the U13's.

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Got to agree with you here RedKopite, thought Flanno and Kelly were excellent full backs as well. Rossiter really impressed me, 16 year old bossing the midfield

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Yeah great game that. I agree with you on tiago, I hope he gets his primier league debut quick.

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Totally agree lads. Rossiter at 16 has impressed me for a while now. He is in total control. A great prospect.

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17 Sep 2013 21:36:24
just watched the u21 game and have to say I was very impressed, after going 2-0 down to winning 5-2, excellent, Alberto was fantastic, Sterling, brilliant, and Llori looked classy, Kelly looks ready to me, I don't know about 3/4 more games, we need him now! he could at least play the first 70 minutes on Saturday, well done lads.

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A good game. But we were very poor in the first half and Sterling and Alberto in particular looked like they rather be elsewhere.

Second half was a different ball game all together and Sterling looked a possessed man! Alberto for me was still quite poor. He bagged a hatrick yes, but only after excellent work by Sterling for 2 of his 3 goals. He was also shying away from tackles all game. But it was only his first start in the PL (albeit in the reserve league), and I am sure he will improve.

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17 Sep 2013 21:15:47
On another note Rossiter lowkey bossed that second half. He's only 16. 'kinell.

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Agreed GuvTOB, thought he looked well beyond his years

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17 Sep 2013 21:06:11
Just finished watching the U-21 game and my God what a fantastic 2nd half.

Raheem Sterling was absolutely amazingly brilliant. Wow. Specially when Llyod Jones got sent off and he moved to right back and Martin Kelly moved to CB, sensational wing back performance a goal and 3 assists all for Alberto.

Luis Alberto is really technicaly gifted and composed and got a Hatrick. Give him some time and we will most definitely have a gem on our hands:))

Thiago Ilori looked like a real talent, showed good reading of the game and used his pace really well to cover many times. All of these 3 are 20 or younger:))

other positives:

Martin Kelly is looking fitter and fitter for each u-21 game he gets, his 4th full 90 minutes. Will probably need 3-4 more before he is ready but he looked good.

Jordon Ibe looked good but was completely out shined by Sterling.

Jordan Rossiter is brilliant for a 16 year old. Will be a massive player because his tactical awareness is waaaaaay beyond his years, the way he anticipates play, tracks back is just really good for the youngest player on the pitch:)

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Ilori looks an excellent young player. Very composed, always tries to bring the ball out from the back, excellent reading of the game, good passing and his best feature, pace. That boy is rapid!

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17 Sep 2013 20:50:03
Can all the haters of young raheem sterling shut it the kid yesss kid is going to progress fine he's got pace a lot of it
He is willing to work hard! And has fight in him which is what I most like about him plzz support the kids and not cuss them plzz

Ibe looks better yess but at times ibe decision making is still rusty he needs game time appearance the only thing ibe has over raheem is physique because ibe is built like a tank but both hopefully will be brilliant!


Abbas lfc

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I don't know any LFC supporter who hates Raheem Sterling or any other LFC player for that matter?

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17 Sep 2013 20:46:33
Ilori should just play in a tux, while smoking a cigar and drinking the finest scotch. Extremely classy player. Well done scouts.

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Monocle?

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Beautiful.

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17 Sep 2013 20:33:44
I know I will be late to this party but I just cannot help myself. "no one wants to grow up to be a Gary Neville!" Just about the funniest thing I've heard on TV for years! Still chuckling :-)

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Yeah lol I pmsl. But to be fair Neville did giggle a bit.

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17 Sep 2013 20:01:56
Anyone know if the Liverpool game this weekend is airing on TV in America? If so what channel? It's not on NbC sport I don't think.

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It would help if you mentioned the provider you have. But NBC plays all the games live. I personally have Direct TV and if the game is not on 220 then the other games are all played on channels 490-495.

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TJ RED it is, as a matter of fact ALL games are avaialable for free with a cable subscription. I'm in NJ and have OPTIMUM for the cable. So on NBC Sprts network, MSNBC< CNBC and finally via streaming with NBC LIVE EXTRA. Go to their website it explains everything.nbcsports.com/PremierLeagueSchedule. All tha being said it is being broadcast on NBC sports network, 10 AM EST. Cheers

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17 Sep 2013 19:51:57
Hey EDs, curious to know what you thought of Moses's debut Ed001? {Ed001's Note - mixed, he scored and set up an opportunity for Sturridge, but the rest of the time he was giving the ball away too much for my liking. I will give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage, it might just have been that he has yet to strike up an understanding with the rest of the team. Hopefully.}

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17 Sep 2013 19:15:35
Just wanted to say good shout by Ed001 on the premier inn just booked it for January thanks dude {Ed001's Note - hope you have a great time mate!}

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17 Sep 2013 18:41:30
u21 v sunderland team,
ward, kelly, flanagan, ilori, jones, rossiter,
ibe, brannigan, dunn, alberto, sterling;
subs:sama, mersin, morgan, roddan,
mclaughlin

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I'm watching the u21 match and what worries me is Sterling. I know he played some part last night but every time he gets the ball or makes a run he's like a headless chicken. At the min he looks nowhere near good enough to play for our u21 never mind England. Iloris looks like a quality signing, very cool on the ball. He'll learn a lot playing alongside agger and toure in training.

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I've said it before and I know I'll get pelters but stirling won't develop any further, he has no real pace with the ball at his feet, he never takes a man on, he doesn't make runs off the ball, if we sold him next summer I have no worries that we might regret it, I'm sorry but my monies on Ibe, this kid's got it all and with the right handling he could make a difference in games and be an asset for years to come.

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17 Sep 2013 20:44:32
Sterling apparantli had a stormer and has won it for lfc reserves lads need to support kid not cuss himhes 18 for god sake!

Abbas lfc

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Tbh u21's down to 10 men and playing sunderland off the park, gr8 performances in 2nd half from sterling who played as right wingback after the sending off and a hat trick from alberto. He really does look a player in the coutinho role tonight. Ilori had a very solid start at the centre, esp since Lloyd Jones got sent off. All in all a gr8 response from being 2-0 down. Another 90mins under his belt too for Martin Kelly who was solid at right back b4 moving to centre after sending off. Young Jordan Rossiter and Brannigan very solid in the centre of midfield. Fantastic 2nd half display all round. Plenty of positives for Brendan Rogers watching from the stand.

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He was exceptional in the 2nd half! Was weak in the first 45 but youth can be hit and miss don't jump on their back when they're not at their best

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What is everyones problem with Sterling I think he's improved a lot since last season. I'm not basing this on the u21's match but when he's played for the first team. People moan about anything nowadays.

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17 Sep 2013 18:34:39
Ilori starts for u21's tonight live on lfc tv v sunderland

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17 Sep 2013 18:10:15
If we are top of the table this time next week I'll be massively proud and happy

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17 Sep 2013 17:47:48
Bit of fun - get on the Guardian website and vote for Stevie G as the best midfielder. There's a manc leading at the moment and we can't have that!
;-)

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17 Sep 2013 17:31:38
Hey guys. Chelsea fan here in peace. Just wanted to ask what you guys thought about moses I saw the game and I have to say he looked really good, might just give you guys that extra bit of natural width to balance your game, good thing he wouldn't play against us. Anyways I do think you guys will have a good season 3rd or fourth if you can keep this up. enjoy top spot while it lasts :).

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Personally thought he looked great scored a goal and set up sturridge for a header which he should have scored (did ok with his effort but in my opinion he should bury that) which would have killed the game off. Impressed with his strength, pace, and directness which I think we lacked. Hope if he continues doing well we sign him because I just don't see him getting into Chelsea's team, they have too much depth in that area (hazard, oscar, schurrle, & schurrle). Also doubt it would happen but would love us city chelsea and spurs to get top 4

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Agreed mate. he's got a trick in him and quite pacey too so could give us an extra bit of quality in tight games.no world beater but another good signing by rodgers imo.

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I was really impressed with Moses, he showed a very physical technique that we lacked on the wings (Cou and Sterling have technique, Hendo has physique). He also showed good attitude and willingness to pass - however, he is still pretty much a prospect, just like Coutinho he still can't dominate a whole game.

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Moses had a decent debut in my opinion. He looks fast, strong and quite tricky, everything you want in a winger.

Quite surprised Mourinho saw him as surplus to requirements, when you take into account how average Andre Schurrle looks at the moment.

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17 Sep 2013 17:15:26
I know everyone is saying we're top of the league cheer up. That's very true however at the same time we can't play like yesterday because we won't be there for long.
If any of the other 5 drew away to Swansea I would be slightly surprised because they shoul be winning them games and so should we. I am gutted we didn't hold that lead but a point is decent after how bad that second half was.

People slating aspas you are a bunch of fools! That whole team was playing awful when he came on and he's come into a new league, a new team and in a slightly different position! Give him a break!

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But then again who many of the other top 6 clubs will win against United?

Chelsea already drew at home to United. so if they beat Swansea away would't it be the same on the points sheet?

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I know what you mean mate but we should use them as backup points against the top teams to where we can afford to drop points and still be up there

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I am almost certain that most, if not all of our direct rivals drew at Swansea last season - I am too lazy to look it up to call it a fact, but thought I heard someone on telly say it, so it must be true ;)

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17 Sep 2013 16:52:45
Good luck to big sami hyypias team tonight against utd at least in europe the refs won't be fans of theirs.

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Seeing Shreks goal I'm not so sure

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17 Sep 2013 16:39:53
Just an update for the glass half empty crowd -
We are top of the league and the only points dropped were at an away draw.
Report over.
I despair some days I really do.
YNWA JFT96

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Plus after all these years we have a replacement for Saint & Greavsie in Carra & Neville!

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17 Sep 2013 16:38:35
4 games into the season we are looking good, conceded the least amount of goals lost the least amount of points that's why we top of the league and long may that continue.
People call it a form of champions when a team struggles in some games and wins but when Liverpool does it it's a different story.
Many teams have spent much more than we did would love to be where we are at the moment, so I say to those moaners look at us struggling at the top of the league.
Ps: el pistolero will come back in a couple of games will kick on from there.

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17 Sep 2013 16:33:23
Don't get me wrong I think Lucas is crucial to this Liverpool team. My only slight worry is that he picks up too many yellow cards. But then would he be the same player without his aggression?

Anyway well happy with our start. Just hope some of the injuries are not too bad. Any news yet on Agger or Coutinho?

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17 Sep 2013 16:23:22
Eds any news on Coutinhos injury? {Ed002's Note - The club has said nothing and I would not expect anything said, if there is something to say, before Friday.}

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17 Sep 2013 15:49:06
Big Sami at OT tonight with his team. It would be lovely if he could get a good result. Just to heap the pressure on Moyes a wee bit.

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17 Sep 2013 14:56:00
i aid it during the summer

no central midfield options

allen out injured, gerrard is 33,

and we have no fresh legs to come into midfield fromthe bench
this cost us last night. it ll cost us again

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Here we are with all threes problems at the top of the league.

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Relax we have Hendo and Alberto who can play central. Gerrard, Allen and Lucas.

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Toure can also play cm if needed

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17 Sep 2013 14:46:38
Quick one on last nights game. Thought we were superb down the flanks, especially Moses. Its a shame our midfield died off when Coutinho went off but Hendersons never ending energy was superb. Sturridge was fantastic all game but struggled once both Moses and Coutinho left the pitch as the link up play dissapeared.
Although Suarez cannot play a competitive game at any age or level he could play a friendly, any news on one being arranged behind closed doors to give him some game time?

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17 Sep 2013 15:19:21
suarez had game time with Uruguay not sure if its was enough though andy.Have to say it will be interesting to see how we line out there is a lot of options for the manager up front and at the back.Up front moses lw suarez cf sturridge rw countinho linking midfield and attack with suarez and sturridge switching throughout the game although this does leave the full backs under pressure would love to hear who other reds think we would line out I suppose its depends on the opposition.

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I think Suarez will play on the right, with Studge staying through the middle. Suarez played there at Ajax and scored plenty and also had plenty of assists, but as we all know these 3 will all be able to interchange positions.
Top of the league! Long may it continue.

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17 Sep 2013 14:43:26
@YNWAdam - How about a bit of a report on Steven Gerrard from a defensive perspective so far this season. There's been a lot of discussion on how deep we play once we're ahead and in the 2nd half.
I for one do not think that its not the back line that drags us back. I'm of the opinion that its Gerrard who's dropping deeper thus causing everyone behind him step back or we'd get too congested. It also gets our forwards to play in our half, and that allows the opposition to play a high line and press us on the ball, thus the reduction in our ball possession 2nd half of a game.
YNWA

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Correction, I mean I do not blame tge backline. I feel all respinsibility for hiw we play falls on gerrard, as I feel he's in the most important position on the pitch. That position controls the back line and the distance between both defence and midfield and midfield and forwards.

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Couldn't agree more, but it's not just Gerrard but Lucas too.
We seem to get deeper and deeper and for their second we had a chance to break but Moses chose to check out to try and retain possession as there was not enough going forward.
I would also say that for both SG and LL the amount of times they allowed opposition players to run off the back of them and find space was astonoshing, IMO only one should play as the holding player and get Coutinho and Henderson in front of them.
Gerrard in my eyes could do what Alonso used to do, patrol in front of the back four and pick passes left, right and centre; but at present it is like we are caught between two stools with him - we have to consider his playing time and how he is being asked to play.
Let him sit in and have 2 in front who can get forward, for those who think this is barmy I'd point out that if we had had more goals from central midfield when we finished runners up to Manchester United - the title would not have ended up at OT.

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Don't understate the importance of losing Coutniho (Williams knew exactly what he was doing, but that's a different post).

Countinho's holding up and linking play was magnificent and it allowed us to sit deep and hit on the break.

Without him, we still sat deep, but had no out ball and the Swans just kept coming back again and again.

You have to be brave to push up and hold a high line, but the truth of the matter is that Swansea, taking their lead from Williams, offered us a square go and we said 'no thanks'.

Coyler

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17 Sep 2013 20:48:19
I'll add it to the list of requests Pirate. I have got a review on Lucas In the pipeline already. It's a good idea for a blog though as its relevant and very current.

YNWAdam

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I just wish that Gerrard would retire from England duty and save his legs for us

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17 Sep 2013 14:34:35
I certainly don't want a 1-0 with just one shot on target against Southampton- I'm going to the match and demand more for my money. but if it comes down to that, then I'll suppose I'll have to take it.
Deep down what I really want to see is for the boys to go out and destroy the opposition and score at least 3 in the process. (fancy Moses and Sturridge to get on the scoresheet again and us to keep a clean sheet)

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Frankly, I don't care how we win and get points at the moment. LFC are a work in progress. Anyone who doesn't recognise that is deluding themselves. let's get top four this year and continue building the team and developing the youth we have. For now, let's just take the joy of having 10 points for a possible 12, sitting top of the league.

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17 Sep 2013 14:00:01
Actually scratch that. not even sure he's allowed to play youth games while banned

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17 Sep 2013 13:50:27
Suarez is playing for the 21's later on today {Ed002's Note - I have no idea where you have got that information from, but Suarez is banned.}

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17 Sep 2013 13:42:00
Gents,

I am happy with our points return over the first 4 games and would be happy with another 10 in the next 4.

My concern is that we have lost our attitude that it is our right to win.

Swansea are mid table team on a good night. If we are gong to scale the heights of expectation then they are a team that we should be demanding we beat.

It is clear we do not have enough match fitness to maintain the tempo required for BR's game plan and this will come over the next month.

The influx of new faces will take a little time to blend in and hopefully Suarez is settled over the next 3 months and ensures our season is not over by Christmas.

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17 Sep 2013 15:45:26
Don't seen a post with so much tripe as this for a while.
On a good night a mid table team?
Hopefully our season isn't over by Xmas?
Stop scaremongering FFS.

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17 Sep 2013 13:35:47
Good Luck Sammi.

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“Manchester is a great team. They have won everything in the past ten years, ” former Liverpool captain Hyypia told Express, adding that he refused to give up on getting a result before the match had even begun by saying: “I won’t do that. Otherwise we could send our Under-19s.”

“We should not stand in awe, " he said: "I hope that my players not only want to look around the tradition-rich ground and line up for Wayne Rooney's autograph."

“The players won’t watch the stands wide-eyed when warming up, " he said. "They know this atmosphere. The stadium in Dortmund is bigger."

Hyypia also reminisced about his last game at Old Trafford, Liverpool’s 4-1 win back in March 2009 as "one of my best games, ” which turned out to be the last time he wore the Liverpool jersey for the full 90 minutes.

Oh Sami Sami, Sami Sami Sami, Sami Hyypia.

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17 Sep 2013 13:34:38
Do we need an enforcer in midfield? I like Lucas but I can't help feeling we lack a player like Souness or McMahon, any thoughts?

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I'd favour Lucas's dynamism and fitness over the other 2.

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If you'd pick Lucas over Souness or McMahon then you obviously never saw them play

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Zeddicus

Lucas over McMahon & Souness?

You're pulling my leg aren't you?

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Did any of the other 2 ever play as a holding midfielder in a 5 or 3 man midfield? Its a bit of a specialist job. Souness and McMahon always played4-4-2 and were great players. i'm happy with what Lucas provides. Cheers

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Souness all day long, always in my all time great Liverpool team

Academic exercise however McMahon
less so. I agree we do need an option for Lucas. Last night we where overwhelmed in the second half. I think we need a bit of a muscular monster in there at times.

Red wool

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Sorry, I don't think the humour quite came out! I meant Lucas's fitness and dynamism NOW! Pretty certain he's more use to us than a couple of 50 somethings! Especially since Souness lost the tache, which had almost a hypnotic effect during games!

Right now, I'd love a Johnny Barnes, a beardo and a Souness sitting alongside Stevie G.

But I do think Lucas keeps us shored up at the back, and worry for the natural replacement should he get injured - yeah I know Kolo could do it, but i'd rather such a crucial role for us was taken by someone who plays it day in and day out.

Z

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Jack, did you happen to read my post from 23:58 last night? You and me on the Sam peace mate!

Coyler

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Or the same page, for that matter! Sorry 'bout that!

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17 Sep 2013 13:28:52
sitting back in the second half inviting teams to attack is asking for trouble! I will never understand the tactic, correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember the mancs playing that way, unless they are winning and there is only 10 minutes to play.

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Consider yourself corrected. United have made a living collecting titles in the premier league by absorbing pressure for massive amounts of time and killing teams with quick counter attacking football. Chelsea, in their recent period of success have done the same for many of their winning seasons. Success is built on being able to stop teams scoring against you, and then putting the game away by converting your chances. No team in the English league will dominate a game for 90 minutes, especially away from home. And teams like Swansea will dominate the play in their home ground against even the top teams. Winning teams accept that, absorb it without breaking and find a way to impose themselves on the game when the tide turns.

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17 Sep 2013 13:16:58
There is something not right if after dominating the game we fall apart in the second half, and not for the first time! Gerrard looked tired for the last 35 minutes and should have come off with Hendo going central and Alberto coming on, the team had no balance after Courtinho went off, at 2-1 up we should have closed the game down, something we seem to have lost the last few years, we looked disjointed, maybe the lads need a few games to get to know each other? still a point at the Liberty is fair enough, but it could have been 3.

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Yeah I agree. that tempo pressing the ball was just not there 2nd half and I think we def missed Johnson and aggs just felt at times as if the players didn't know eachotha. but we didn't lose and can do lots beta

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17 Sep 2013 12:51:44
What are people moaning about we are top of the league Swansea will beat a lot of teams at home there a good side we should have got a third goal when we were on top but apart from that we played well first half we were fantastic you can't be on top for 90 minutes away from home we don't want to peaking in september the league is a marathon .Sakho will get better that was his first game and he has not played for a while he looks composed on the ball and looks like darth maul will be a very good signing special mention for skertels stop on the line and our next three fixtures look like 3 pointers

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17 Sep 2013 12:25:27
Hi eds, seems like Aspas took quite a bashing last night. I loved the game but, I just couldn't bare to watch the last 30 minutes . i'm in 7th heaven still, but I can't help but wonder if we will be able to cope without a CAM, last nyt sturidge was droping to deep to collect the ball and be it not for suarez last season we would have seen the same thing. Were like a well oiled engine without a clutch at times. As soon as coutihno went off, we lost all attacking creativity.
Do you think BR will try to get an attacking player in january? {Ed002's Note - Much will depend on anyone leaving.}

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17 Sep 2013 12:46:02
i am appalled with all the moaners. iam not saying that our football was flawless but we came away with a draw in a game that we would have certainly lost in the past. I was very impressed with the response to the shelvey goal. we showed some great fighting spirit to get back in so quickly and boss the 1st half. I also think people forget that we had 2 debutants making starts and for me both performed admirably. sakho will need some time to gel and get on the same page but I think he will prove a real bargain once he gets up to speed and used to the EPL. moses looked dangerous throughout the first half and took his goal extremly well but maybe ran out of gas in the 2nd half. we definitly have some work to do to prevent the 2nd half collapse. I think maybe bringing henderson on as an impact sub to get the energy back into the side could be a good idea. in regards to us not taking our chances, most of you forget we're about to unlease our 55million man Luis Suarez after the Southampton game which will add that cutting edge and creativity that maybe we lacked in the 2nd half. we are top of the table albeit after 4 games but if you told me we would be 3-0-1 to start the season I would have bit your hand off. keep the faith. YNWA

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17 Sep 2013 11:52:17
Steven 'backpeddle' Gerrard. As he should be known by so far this season.
Why are we always fading in the 2nd half or once we go ahead. The answer lies in Gerrard.
Just keep an eye on him when we don't have the ball. The lads are pressing but he's backpeddling, creating space for the opposition to move into and gain ground. He seems afraid to tackle(apart from the 50/50 with Williams last night which I think was overflowed animosity from Williams Suarez/Liverpool Comments Post Evra debarcle).
Makes one wonder what his new extended contract must be like. With FSG getting rid of those on High basics, in favour of the High perfomance bonus', and BR opting to play him in a deep lying playmaker role, With him being in his twilight years perhaps Gerrard had been given Huge appearance fee and a small basic.
Considering the above mentioned, could it possibly be showing that Gerrard is trying to avoid injury at all costs? Opting to stand off instead of pressing and tackling and risking injury. With FSG's style of management could it be
NO PLAY - SMALL PAY?
Just a thought. just watch his defensive game.
Could it just be that BR can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Either or, Henderson should be given that role. He'll win a lot more balls for us in Midfield, he'll keep it simple and won't try hollywood stuff, and he won't tire. Play Toure, and make him captain, or Lucas.

YNWA {Ed001's Note - did you not watch him chase Shelvey deep into Swansea's half when Jonjo dropped deep to collect the ball? Gerrard spent the entire second half doing it, obviously under instruction from the gaffer, which is completely different to your description. Steven Gerrard is a lot of things, but he is not running away from challenges, that is ridiculous. He had a role to play and he played it, just because you can't see that doesn't mean he wasn't! I am one of Gerrard's biggest critics, I think he does have a tendency to overdo it, to try and do too much, but his performance yesterday was all about following the manager's tactical gameplan. I expect he was told to shut down Shelvey following the equaliser, as that was when he started chasing him all over the pitch. Shutting the stable door comes to mind, and both he and Lucas were at fault for not following Shelvey back then, but overall Gerrard did as he was instructed.}

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I agree with part of your assessment. But backpeddling when the opposition is approaching with the ball is not quite "shutting the stable door"
BR's one for Pressing the ball when when we don't have it. If Gerrard just stood his ground, Swansea would have been forced to play the ball wide, where Enrique/Moses or Henderson/RB would have closed them down. Yes we all know BR put him in that position, but did BR ask for him to backpeddle from the halfway line to the edge of the D before thinking about tackling? That was the kind of football Gerrard has played most of his carreer, perhaps you can't get it out of him. somewhat like asking Carra not to punt. You say he was asked to track Shelvey. After the horse has bolted! He was supposed to be doing that all game in his position. Gerrards' become a ball watcher of note.

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A ridiculous post. The whole team was defensive in the second half and has been in all the other matches this season. It is the approach BR wants and that is what he is getting.

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17 Sep 2013 13:08:47
A bit harsh pirate. I think Gerrard had a bad game last night, but he certianly wasn't shying away from tackles or back peddling. I just don't think he could cope with the pace Swansea came forward. Neither him nor Lucas are particularly mobile midfielders and they struggled. I think Gerrard needs to be subbed off around the 60-70 minute mark in fast paced games like yesterday where we are doing a lot of chasing. His legs clearly aren't what they used to be, but he always puts in 100% and does as he's told.

YNWAdam

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Gerrard is the weakest link in our team at the moment.

Let Gerrard come in the last 30 Minutes of a game to Provide an Experience to the group and see the win through.
BR shouldn't be afraid to bench him.

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I'm agreeing with both sides to the above argument and offering my opinion.

I felt Stevie was off the pace a little and not his usual self (though I only managed to catch the first half) and felt he stood and watched as shelvey forced his way into the box for the first goal. However, I also feel Mignolet could have stayed up longer because there wasn't much about Jonjo's finish.

The second goal I feel was Sakho's error. If anyone listened to Carra's post game, he said it all.

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I believe carra aid it was more skrtels error at not moving across quicker, wisdoms too for that matter

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Gerrard was ball watching and did not cover shelvey's run. Or When bony came deep and pulled lucas, gerrard should gave got into that space, which would have given skrtel more help with michu on the knockdown. But gerrard did neither, and just ball watched.

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Tom1975 - Carra said it was Skrtel's fault for not shifting himself and Wisdom across to form a three at the back. I am referring to Carra's opening statement whereby Sakho should have told Lucas to pick up the man he followed out of the back 4 so he could return to his position - there was no need for Sakho to step out that far. Don't get me wrong, Sakho is a good player, I just feel he was at fault.

The Pirate - my thoughts exactly, he didn't seem to fight like he normally does. In yesterdays game would Stevie have made the challenge Skrtel did to deny Bony?. I'm not sure he would've

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17 Sep 2013 11:34:02
I don't understand all the inquests. We are unbeaten and we haven't really played well apart from brief periods in games. i'm ecstatic! Teams have won leagues for years playing like this. At least wait until we lose a game or 2 in a row before we get the knives out. Me? i'm just wanting 3 points against Southampton and I will take a scrappy 1-0 with 1 shot on target. Cheers

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Spot on Irish Rover it's about being able to win ugly and grind out a draw, did people really think Swansea were going to be a walk over, I'd have taken 2-2 all day, What with new defenders to bed in Suarez to return and Moses to fully find his feet, people need to chill and take a look at the bigger picture I for one think it looks great!

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Can't agree more! Just because we won our 1st 3 games, people are already expecting us to beat every team, whereas imo we are still very much a work-in-progress. Credit where credit's due; 10 points after 4 games, any team will give an arm for our results!

It's going to be a long season - there will be games drawn and lost, but from where we've been last season to now, there is definite improvement and added steel.

If we continue this vein of form, I certainly won't complain - in fact, I'll be bloody delighted!

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For the last number of years, I have started the season with high expectation only to find the expectation dampened by mid-September and gone by the end of October. This year I am absolutely delighted. Mid-September, unbeaten and top of the league is just fantastic. In the last few seasons we would have drawn or lost a couple of the first three 1-0 wins. This season we have 10 points from 12 and that includes playing Man Utd. Keep a decent run going until Christmas and then bolt that onto the second half of last season and the sky is the limit. Come on the Reds. This is where we have all waited far too long to be again.

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Completely agree Irish Rover! We finished 7th last season, and now sit on top of the table (and I know it's only 4 games into the season).

I look at that game as a point gained rather than 2 lost.

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17 Sep 2013 10:53:57
why can't lvrpool sustain the sizzling 1st hlf prfrmnce to the 2nd half.its lyk 2 different teams altogether. if we perform with the same attitude and belief through out the 2nd half then easily we are a top 4 team. now its upto br to undo all the good work at the start of the season if he doesn't change the team tactics. come on br show us what u got. and its only for skertl that we hold on to a point. thank god he was not offloaded. wisdom needs a loan.as soon as he finds the ball on his feet. there is only one way the ball is heading either to the gk or to cb. how far is kelly from first team action?

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17 Sep 2013 10:47:42
Hey ed01, a footballing question for you: for a third game in a row, we loose the initiative after a strong first half; is this simply due to tactics and the quality of the opposition (we played against three really tough opponents), or are we still behind in terms of fitness;
in that regard, what is your opinion on the team's physique and fitness levels? Last year, there were periods when we completely outran and trashed the opposition, but this year we seem to be taking a more cautious approach; could this be BR having changed the regime, and aiming for the slower start of some strong teams that only get racing towards november?
The whole fitness thing and "slow start" I've heard in commentaries have always been really interesting for me, and I am curious how things actually stand. {Ed001's Note - it seems to be tactical, though some players, such as Sturridge, are not 100% fit. We seem to be returning to the days of Houllier and Rafa, where we would sit back when we get a lead. From what I have seen of Rodgers on the sidelines and his choice of substitutions, he seems to be looking for us to hit opponents on the counter when we have the lead. It is not how I would choose us to play, but it is getting results, so how we can't really complain.}

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Indeed, 10 points are an excellent start! Personally I expected 7-8, and we are already 5 points better than in the corresponding fixtures last year (man, what a difference an honest referee makes!).
OK, so do you think BR has a program for the whole year? We are usually better off in the second part of the season, do you think this will be the case this year too? Or will BR show inexperience and allow a prolonged dip in form, as Spurs and Aston Villa did in previous seasons?
Thanks!

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17 Sep 2013 10:30:46
As with the previous 3 games this season the midfield dropped too deep and reverted to protection mode in the 2nd half of the game yesterday. This can be attributed to Swansea pushing further up the pitch and our general lethargy in midfield. Unfortunately Gerrard's legs were gone for the last 30-35mins of the game which seems to trigger this retreat. That being said I think we can be quite effective hitting teams on the break away from home when we push to support at the right times although that happened less and less often as the game wore on. We probably would have lost that game last season so onwards and upwards and hopefully we can start our winning streak again at the weekend!

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17 Sep 2013 10:16:01
Good morning. Now that I've had time to cool off. I think we need to lay off the aspas criticism, he a very good player who just needs time to adapt and bashing him will only kill his confidence.

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True. I was really angry with him last night, but he came in under difficult circumstances, and against a team well suit to defend against players of his style; in the end, he made an excellent run that could've brought us a last-gasp win if it wasn't for an excellent tackle; perhaps he should've shot with the first touch, but that is Vorm he was up against, the lad was trying to prepare for a technical rather than powerful shot.

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Aspas is a good squad player but I get the feeling many here expected him to score 15 goals a season, which he won't.

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Well. I am expecting 10 in the PL, in all honesty. On the other hand, I was expecting only 5 from Moses, so I may have to switch both prognoses :>

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17 Sep 2013 10:01:58
Thought Gerrard offered very little last 30min last night, he looked like we could not run anymore. I had the feeling the international week took a lot out of him
and I really think he should get out of that set-up and concentrate on LFC.

Also don't know why BR did not bring on Kelly instead of Thoure, to replace Wisdom. Maybe he did not see him sitting on the bench?

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17 Sep 2013 09:48:47
Just wanna say best of luck to Sami tonight against that mob. Hope you kick butt and come back to us after you learn your trade.

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Sami has done an excellent job with Leverkusen and good luck to him and Leverkusen!

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17 Sep 2013 08:44:03
We generally have to be happy with where we're at, not necessarily how we got there. Let's face it, out of the first 4 games, we probably would have lost a couple of them in the last season or two. How many games have Utd won the last few years when clearly the second best team on the pitch? It's good to see the team grinding out a result.
Skrtel was very solid again. How he kept out what seemed a certain tap in I don't know.
Also, let's lay off Aspas a bit hey? The lad has excellent movement and seems to have a good footballing brain. I seem to remember Rushy being written off early in his Liverpool career. No, I'm not comparing the two, but let's have some perspective.

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I think that you are spot on. We are top after 4 games. All the top teams are still finding their feet and the international break has taken some momentum away from the settling down process. I think we need to have a look after 10 games or so and draw our conclusions. I think Agger, Johnson and Suarez will improve us when they come back in. In terms of players I remember slating Lucus, reading about Henderson being useless. Some players need time.

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I agree, Skrtel was immense for me yesterday, even for the first goal he put in a fantastic block before Shelvey got the follow up. Sakho looked dominant in the air but seems to lunge in for the tackle but what I found more worrying was the fancy passes he went for in our own third of the pitch. Good point all things considered, hopefully the lads can keep churning out these results.

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17 Sep 2013 08:19:35
On another day Williams could easily have seen red for his challenge on Coutinho. If you watch the slo-mo you can clearly see that he leaves his leg out but also makes a second, deliberate, movement with his foot to hit Coutinho. It was cynical and the commentators made little of it probably because they didn't want to spoil the occasion for Rodgers returning to his former patch. It was a game turning challenge for me because after we lost Coutinho we just couldn't link up our defence and attack and resorted to spraying Hollywood passes to try find Sturridge or Aspas.

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That was my opinion of the incident. It was deliberate not once but twice, firstly to catch him and secondly to catch him badly. It was a red all day. Bad tackle, bad decision, Bad luck. The forced substitution changed the game massively.

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Couldn't agree more, I think he is a malicious and dirty player. Every time there was a completely fair 50/50 he started to abuse whoever he came up against. For me it was a red all day long, he knew exactly what he was doing and that effectively ended any chance of us making a game out of the second half. I just seriously hope Coutinho is not out for the Southampton game or we could be in trouble.
Cheers.

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It was dirty and cynical, deliberate and cheap, but it was also 100% effective.

He took one for the team and got away with it. And when we needed someone to go to toe-to-toe with their big lad, we brought on Aspas to play out of position and then Sterling!

Lucas is meant to be our enforcer, but he got into daft handbags with Shelvey, got booked and had to watch himself for the last 30 minutes.

We can play nice football, but you have earn the right to do that and sometimes we just don't like it up us. Maybe that's why our opponents have generally managed to turn things about in the second half of our matches?

What also I'm disgusted about though is that creative players like Coutinho do not get enough protection from dirty big hallions like Williams!

Coyler

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17 Sep 2013 06:27:35
I can't understand BR replacement of Coutinho with Aspas when he has more interesting option for example Gerard in the middle and Toure as DM, Henderson in the middle and Aspas in the right or even Luis Alberto would have been a better option than Aspas. I don't blame the lad because he was playing out of position and was clearly lost in the middle thus inviting more pressure on the defence. However, I am happy with the point away from home.

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It was the correct substitution. My only issue with it was that he should have then brought henderson central and pushed Aspas on the right. Henderson's pressing centrally would have halted Swanseas ball possession in the last 25 Mins.

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I agree with Blood. Kolo could've sat in the holding position, providing much needed cover and guidance for young Wisdom. (Ha, wisdom for Wisdom!)

He would also have helped to keep Sakho and Skrtyl right, helping them to communicate better.

Lucas could have moved 30 yards up the pitch and done what he does well - breaking things up and keeping our moves moving.

And Stevie could've moved 40/50 yards up the pitch, holding the ball up and linking with Sturridge and Moses/Sterling. And in addition to this linking up, Stevie would've demanded a bit more respect off Williams & Co.

Brendan got a lot of plaudits for buying big physical defender types in the window, so why, when Swansea had started to mix it up and deliberately bully us out of our rhythm, did he bring on wee Aspas and Sterling?!

Coyler

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17 Sep 2013 05:20:30
was surprised when agger didn't start against a team like swansea. could have been the difference.
really bad last 30 mins for us there. and sturridge nearly clinched it!. hope to be more positive against southhampton at home.

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Agger was injured in a silly training accident with weights.

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17 Sep 2013 03:08:06
These past 4 games have given some positives in terms of possession and defense but I feel that something is lacking from linking the defense to midfield and midfield to attack. We do make some good passes but I feel as though from midfield forward is when the problems arise. I am sorry to say but I do not think Wisdom is ready yet for the first team. He regulary left his side exposed and other players had to run to cover. He gave many passes away either to an opponent or out the field. I feel Martin Kelly would be given a much better chance in this position. Sakho can be forgiven for it was his first game in a new league after only 2 weeks of training. He will need some time to adapt. Iago Aspas came on and did some good runs and passes but he still lacks the finishing touch and though to make a final pass for goal. He is pushed around a lot and hopefully he can adapt faster in order to make a greater impact. Victor Moses made some good runs and movements as well along the flank. He seems to have some good link up play with other players up front as well, but I feel he should also contribute more defensively as well. I feel gerrard gave away many passes either trying to give a long pass or not have any options. The team in all should try to control the tempo more so as to not be pushed around. I have realized however that the team has stopped shooting from out of the box as much as they used to. The team in general tries to make passes close to the box and go in for a simple touch into goal. I feel if we shot from long range more often such as from gerrard and others we could have a decent chance. Swansea were not afraid to shoot from out the box although some went out wide. Also I feel Gerrard should be deployed a bit higher up the pitch in order to give more passes to the attack instead of sticking with Lucas as a holding midfielder. I do hope that the team can get it together for the next game against Southhampton and realize that wins don't come easy and that hard work and concentration is the key to success. Today they lacked concentration and pressure against the opposition but hopefully they can turn it around and bring home 3 points next game. YNWA

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Completely agreed mate. and I don't understand why the players tend to sit back in the second half and allow the opposition to dominate the game. for the 3rd straight game this has happened. we should be looking to extend our lead.
anyway top of the table after 4 games despite not playing the best of football. we still have time to put it all together, hopefully we can do it next game against the saints
YNWA

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I forgave sakho when he made the last ditch challenge to prevent michu from most definitely scoring the winner
Its really easy to blame wisdom isn't it?go watch the game again wisdom was left to dry by hendo who basically played as a cm, it was two against one for most of the game

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17 Sep 2013 02:11:16
Top of the league yet so much negativity amongst the fans.

How many times in the past have we played all out attacking and 'pretty' football and lost? Too many times! I would be happy to watch Liverpool play ugly in every game and grind out results than play 'pretty' football with no reward.

Would fans be able to sleep easier if we drew with United and beat Swansea? What difference does it make? Which ever way you look at it 10 points from 12 is a great start and no other team in the league has done better. Last season it took us 9 games to generate the same number of points as we have so far this season in just 4 games.

Don't forget Mignolet, Toure, Sakho, Moses, and Aspas are still finding their feet at a new club. Skrtel and Wisdom have come in despite not featuring often last season. Gerrard at 33 has just played 2 full international games and Sturridge is still not 100% fit.

As the season goes on I am sure the players will settle in and become an even stronger unit. Personally, I couldn't be happier with the way we have started the season.

Red Rum

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17 Sep 2013 13:23:57
well said red rum we r top with a lot of positives like we can easily improve with players getting used to each other, really think we have agreat chance of top 4 this season and who knows maybe pick up an oul cup aswell with no involvement in europe.

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17 Sep 2013 01:52:58
What a releif - normality is restored on this site. I thought it had shifted to some parallel universe for a while there. Player bashing is back and it appears all the good work done in the transfer window and the first three games was all for nothing now. I have seen criticism for Mignolet, Wisdom, Skrtel, Sakho, Enrique, Gerrard, Lucas, Aspas and Sterling and I only read a third of the way down the page. Surprisingly Borini has come in for some support on this page! This site only makes sense when the majority of posts don't make sense! I love it.

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Kelly is well supported as well. Bad luck for Wisdom since if Kelly played but not wisdom it will be the other way around

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17 Sep 2013 01:03:07
People seem to be knocking aspas far to early in my opinion his positional play was brilliant in the first three games and whilst being respectful to our pre season opposition, the step up to the premier league and the realization of actually playing in competitive games for Liverpool will also take time to adjust to. what I've seen of him tells me he can be a goal poacher and create space for our other forward players I think given time to settle into the league and the chance to find his own identity within the team we could have a good player. Also nobody seems to be picking up on the lack of supply actually to aspas. From what I've seen of him at celta vigo he can have a cool and composed finish in front of goal both under pressure and on one on one situations.

I think hendersons been outstanding for us in his work rate and overall ethic, i'd just like to see a bit more fluidity between himself and gerrard in the sense of cover. I know stevies role has changed sitting deeper and dictating just on the edge of ours and the middle third but if stevie has it in his locker to get forward a bit more then I think hendo has the ability to fill in coverwise with his engine and overall improvement while gerrard has a crack at doing what he does best. maybe i'm just living in the past slightly as I am aware that gerrards role will have to change and adapt but its just something that's been on my mind over the second halfs whilst watching our recent games.

Alls I can say with 100% certainty is that i'm always proud to be a red but the last couple of seasons have been frustrating at times and with the start we've made i'm so happy for the lads and the gaffer

without touching on the arrival of suarez back into the fold, the promise of moses and sakho (i know he looked a bit nervy tonight but swansea on there day are a handfull for anyone) alberto, lloris, ibe there's no reason why we can't make a sustained push for fourth which I think is a realistic target.

we have a manager who is strong in his philosophy, a team full of potential and the greatest fans in the world could the only thing missing dare I say it be more time?

YNWA

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17 Sep 2013 00:52:17
4 games 10 points. We're on target for 95 points.

We still haven't played really well yet.
Suarez is only out for 1 more game.

Still feeling positive.

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Easy mate

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17 Sep 2013 00:23:53
That was always going to be a hard game. We are playing a passing team at their own game who have been doing it longer. Notice how many long balls we played?

Think a draw was a fair result. There were silly mistakes and some strange choices in the lineup and subs but it all helps for future games. I think aspas will become the new borini if he isn't careful, people loved to slate him and now he is gone the predators need a new target. Aspas please score ASAPS!

I think it would be better to dwell on the fact we have 10 points out of 12 and 1 game till our best player returns.

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Jeez tho's long balls drove me crazy! And honestly I think we should consider a draw a lucky result last night. they dominated us in that second half. very poor performance

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Oh and I think Aspas is the new Borini already. 18 mil for Aspas and Borini???

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17 Sep 2013 00:20:59
What's with all the people giving aspas stick. You guys are so moody. He's not even playing in his preferred role as striker. As front man in preseason he was scoring nearly as frequently as sturridge. So foolish.

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17 Sep 2013 00:16:21
Turn draws into wins and losses into draws, right?

We played awful last night, particularly in the second half and yet we've walked away with a point. Top of the league 4 games in, unbeaten. I'll take that.

YNWAdam

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Spot on Adam. A point gained based on the way the game panned out. And to those people who we calling for Johnson to be bounced out maybe you'll appreciate him more in his absence.

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17 Sep 2013 00:03:06
Stranger in the pub called it perfectly at half time: Shelvey vs Shelvey

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16 Sep 2013 23:58:05
Sorry guys, but we just don't like it up us! And after we've passed them off the park in the first half, teams get wise to this and they come out and kick us about in the first 10/15 minutes of the second half.

We can't answer this and we clam up, drop deep and start to panic.

The Coutinho substitution showed me 2 things:

1) we still don't have the necessary strength in depth. Aspas couldn't hold the ball up like Philippe and Moses/Sterling couldn't provide an outlet either; Sturridge ran out of steam, but we had no Plan B;

2) Ashley Williams played the perfect captain's role tonight. He completely changed the game by taking one for the team. He took out our most creative player and made everyone else crap themselves at the same time. Dirty and cynical, but totally effective.

In turn, I learned two more things from this: a) we need to either collectively grow a pair, or we need to buy a proper enforcer. Lucas is the closest we have, but he just can't cut it. When we needed someone to go toe to toe with Williams, Lucas got into a daft shoving match with Jonjo and left himself walking on eggshells for the last 30! Tommy Smith, Jimmy Case, Souness or even McMahon would've known when it was necessary to clatter someone! Maybe Hamann or Masch have been the closest we've had to replacing these guys, but even they were an age ago now! And b) creative players like Coutinho need to be protected from dirty cloggers like Williams. But that laddie who was reffing tonight totally missed this nuance and reacted to our frustration by giving Swansea everything in the last 20, including all the momentum. Ashley Williams was totally pumped from the start, and in my view, he basically won his team a point.

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16 Sep 2013 23:52:04
I am wondering why BR felt that Borini needs more experience, and yet we play Aspas and Sterling. Neither appears ready for the physical nature of PL. Not that Borini is a bruiser, but I didn't see him getting tossed around like Aspas and Sterling. Hard to be an offensive threat when so easily brushed off the ball. Perhpas too early to judge Aspas, but we already had Downing and Borini, so I really don't know why we would need to 'bed in' another player unless they have potential. I don't see Aspas as future star.

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