Liverpool Banter Archive November 16 2014

 

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16 Nov 2014 18:40:40
Manquillo actually thinks Glen Johnson is world class. LOL

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16 Nov 2014 19:30:59
He'd be world class if he bothered his arse.

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He`s being politically correct. Manquillo prob thinks GJ is past it and so do pretty uch all the other fans.

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17 Nov 2014 08:11:31
If you thought an established player at a club was really 'world class', would you join that club on loan when you really need game time? He can't come out in an interview and say what Johnson really is. Mostly because you aren't allowed to say those words on prime time tv or family friendly websites

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16 Nov 2014 16:59:10
Hi eds hope all is well, heard a rumour that the board are thinking about sacking BR, this may already be common knowledge but it's the first I've heard of it. I think it would be a bit hasty but I can also see this being true, just wondered what your thoughts were.

Many thanks

Henlow red

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{Ed002's Note - RTP please.}

IMO the last thing on FSG's mind at the start of the season was going to be considering their options regarding the manager but if results do not improve soon then history will tell you that they are not going to sit back and watch the roof burn down especially when as per the Ed's promises have been made which probably include a trophy and challenging for the title again.

FSG invested a record amount of money this season. If you were the owners what would you do with a manager who is pissing our season away?

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Record amount of money? They tied up the Suarez deal last November, cashed in and spent £30 mill net to supplement champions league football. I don't see that as a heavy investment.

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I'd like to live in your world, Ozone, if you don't think £30M is a fair amount of coin.

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IMO, that net spend stuff is misleading and flat out rubbish. If I spent 100m and gain 60m, my net spend is 40m BUT it doesn`t change the fact that I STILL spent 100m which in my view, is the key accounting stat.

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Ozone, stop blaming the owners for BR's ineptness in the transfer market. It does not matter if the spend was in terms of net or gross, BR still had 100 million GBP to spend and he wasted it on average to decent players. Its not about how much money u spend, its about how ell u use the funds at your disposal and 100 million GBP is no small sum. The blame lies totally at the feet of Brendan and the cronies in the transfer committee.

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A manager will always be compared to how much he has spent gross. The owners should be compared to how much they provide net. I think that's fair. Of course if we were winning none of it would matter.

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17 Nov 2014 11:38:44
Let's not get into finances because what gets posted is 90% nonsense.

Theres more to a transfer than "net spend".

Ozone, quite how you've ONCE AGAIN managed to make this into a dig at the owners is astounding.

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He can`t help himself because it`s what he does, I`m afraid. FSG provide money, it`s not enuff. They don`t provide enuff money, they are here to squeeze money out the club like cowboys and split. Clearly BR is out of his depth but still finds a way albeit stupid, to tie it to the owners even tho they`ve put millions into the club. In his eyes, they cannot win. #Pathetic!

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In fairness if you were FSG, given that Rodgers has wasted money in a number of transfer windows, would you be up for giving him more? I wouldn't give him anything, how can you trust a manager who spends to much so freely on so many mismatched, unnecessary players?

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16 Nov 2014 15:08:09
Good poll yesterday about fans being able to participate at boardroom level.

If I'm honest I do not think there is a correct answer; look at the many differing opinions on here; we appear to only sometimes agree with each other when it's to put a player or manager down.

Also some of our reasoning for decisions also offers different opinion or in some cases none at all (we miss you harry!).

Supporters groups also have different agendas and I'm not sure you can keep everyone happy (unless we are winning everything in the way all the different people want) - win everything but playing a defensive game and everyone wants to continue winning but playing a far more expansive attacking game.

Buy a player for £5m and you can get criticised for not spending money on only £20m players.

Also those that do get involved at board room level and understand why some decisions are made - will be deemed disillusion or working for the corporate team as they may not have the same views as people without the same information available to them.

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17 Nov 2014 08:17:13
Just because fans should be consulted doesn't mean they should get much of a say. But having fans involved might do things like avoid clubs spending hundreds of millions developing a TV channel to be worthy of charging a subscription when when most fans would rather the free stuff whatever it was. Or that as people who actually try and buy tickets, their ticket allocation system is ridiculous and they need to do something about people holding season tickets in the same name for 90+ years, indicating the original holder has long since passed away. You know, just generally highlight the issues that are really important to us as a fan group and hear them directly - analysis of forums etc are all well and good but it's well known that focus groups are the most effective form of feedback because you can gauge where people feel their passion, and the higher up they report the better (check out 95% of educational material on market research, particularly from the CIM in the UK). Fan participation is definitely a good thing, it's just not a cure all

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16 Nov 2014 11:46:42
Just wondering .............

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{Ed002's Note - Sorry, we are not going there.}

16 Nov 2014 16:00:54
thought that might be the case. Enjoy your Sunday Ed002 and everyone else

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16 Nov 2014 18:36:00
I love your pic ForzaRed!

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Haha cheers adam

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16 Nov 2014 11:22:32
Would the fact kloop and beilsa (and other top coaches) not been available give riders until the end of the season I mean it makes sense to wait until the best ideal replacement is available to me
After reading the beilsa comments on here I think we should wait and try get him I have followed a game or to of his and ed001 your right the football is our standing

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{Ed002's Note - What makes you think that there is any chance at all of these coaches moving to Liverpool?}

Reaching for the stars ed that's all I can't see why not tho dortmund aren't doing grate and the French league isn't grate why not

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{Ed002's Note - These are not practical solutions.}

There are a lot of calls for Beilsa on here. His OM team are riding high this season but has he actually ever won anything in any European league or competition? His record at Bilbao was nothing to shout about, I think he only had a 38% win ratio, Rodgers even at Swansea was over 40% and over 50% at Liverpool. From what I've seen, though I in no way proclaim to be an expert on Beilsa, his teams play attractive attacking football but ultimately fall short of winning anything. The BR out brigade really should be careful of what they wish for.

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Im a br fan just think if we are to sack him no point doing it until the summer

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Funny how, no 1 mentioned Bielsa until ED001 did, suddenly the amout of experts on him and Marseille is phenominal

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To be fair I said after comments on here his style obviously suits our squad

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I'm going to be completely shot down I know it because of his style of play while building a team. But Sam Allardyce's record is amazing. He takes teams that are nothing, plays really ugly football to get them where they need to be, then starts making it work. Just google his league standing improvements with the teams he's been at, and look at the football West Ham play now compared to how they did when he took over. He's a manager that should get a shot at a big club. I know everyone's going to disagree.

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Ed001 has been talking about bielsa here for years mate.

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Bielsa`s a good coach and is good at moulding teams in to playing his brand of attacking footie. He moulded that Chile squad that we all envy today as well as the Bilbao side that got to the Europa League final where they lost 3-1 to Atletico and Falcao. He`s done well at OM this year BUT he is doing it w/ the same players who were woeful last year and have the advantage of not having european footie. He might b overachieving right now w/ such a thin squad BUT credit to him tho. But his biggest failure to dat was at the WC in 2002 where w/ arguably the best generation of Argentine players, he didn`t even get past the first round (Sweden and England made it). That`s about all I know about him. I do agree w/ the notion that this Bielsa advice stuff was barely ever mentioned on this forum if it ever was to begin w/, when we were in the thick of a title charge last season. Now suddenly, everyone seems to be an expert on him and either want him to coach LFC or even worse in my view, give him credit for our progress last season W/O ever setting foot at Melwood to coach the team, set tactics or give half time team talks. Funny that.

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17 Nov 2014 04:41:17
Was going to post just the same thing boba, although maybe I would spell phenomenal correctly ;] It really is quite tragic to read all the Ed001 fanboys who regurgitate all that he says.

For me I just hope FSG force Brendan to adapt his clearly mistaken philosophy. Ed002 has mentioned in the past that perhaps a thorough review of the current situation, such as coaching and recruitment, will take place and then necessary adjustments made.

To me this makes the most sense as I don't think there is a single manager out there though who could come in and take this squad of players mid-season, once again completely changing the way they all work, and still reap good results.

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Lfcan, what u are saying is called being b/w a rock and a hard place which IMO, is where the owners are.

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Bielsa is a genius. it's just that his system seems to require players that are fit enough to implement it (and sometimes it seems to me to be humanly impossible in the first place), he demands that players press and sprint until the final whistle, without excuses, has to be quite exhausting for the players

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Allardyce. That made me laugh and cry at the same time.

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2002 best generation of Argentina players? No sorry that is not correct. There were a number of ageing players in that team and a number of players unwilling to play with the fitness and tempo required for Bielsa's system - you need had working players and you need the right type of players: as has been mentioned we seem to have the players that could implement that system - what we need is a manager with the balls to play it and with the balls to drop the players no longer capable - is Rodgers that man? No.

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{Ed001's Note - how can it be the best generation without Maradona at his peak? Ludicrous comment that, Argentina's best generation had Maradona leading it, there is no comparison with the recent teams. They are simply not producing the players they once were, with an odd exception such as Messi. Players like Cambiasso are decent players, but not top class internationals.}

16 Nov 2014 10:26:04
Can we do a poll on who has LFC tv please eds? Or maybe people could reply to this. Agree if you have it, disagree if not

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{Ed002's Note - And tomorrow we could do one on who has boxer shorts on and who doesn't.}

Circumcised or Not?

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A better poll would be should it have remained free? was it right to ask for £7 a month or wot ever they r charging?

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16 Nov 2014 06:38:24
Although I do not think Balotelli and Lallana are bad players, it is quite evident that we never needed both these players. Balotelli has been left to dry up on his own and Lallana is not even a regular. Rodgers is out of his depth.

Our failure to sign a striker who creates something out of nothing and a commanding CB could see the end of Rodgers and the transfer committee sooner or later. Loads of cash flushed down the drain, FSG must be cursing.

Lallana was a luxury buy, Lovren well we could have looked elsewhere when spending that amount of money and Balotell square peg in a round hole.

Think we did well with Moreno, Can and Manquillo and also reckon Markovic and Origi can come good. We need proper coaching for these youngsters though otherwise they will end up at a dead end.

The tactics, playing style, 4-2-3-1 formation, singing players who were not needed and persistence with Johnson, Skrtel and Lovren in our defence etc which are all down to Rodgers are the reasons for our calamity season.

The time is ticking and if results do not start showing top 4 form then the end for Rodgers and the transfer committee will be nigh.

My opinion is that Rodgers has dug a very massive hole for himself and is struggling to get out of it. Stubbornness and arrogance will not get you anywhere.

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Agree w/ you in parts. The commanding CB you speak of was meant to b Lovren who IMO, is a very good player BUT is playing in a system where he is always exposed and next to a partner (Skrtl who is erorr prone to the point of nausea. As for Balo and Lallana, I think the jury`s still out on Lallana who I think will come good. As for Balo, he is polarizing and it`s either you love or hate him. Personally, I haven`t given up on him because I`ve seen him play is a system that suits him (at the Euro`s next to Cassano who`s a genius and he was awesome) and performed. As for that commitee, it should be sacked w/ immediate effect.

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Lallana will be an excellent player for us, doesn't really matter if he was a luxury player, he has everything, technical ability, imagination, work ethic, a good attitude, i am a massive fan of his and am very glad he's wearing our shirt.

balotelli has always been the player that he is, apparently he broke the record for shots taken in the serie A the last two seasons, any time he's on the pitch he will spray shots everywhere and take one or two sublime touches that might redeem his recklessness. when things aren't going his way he becomes even more frustrated, static and heedless of everybody else on the pitch. he's also always been a player that needs proper coaching and a manager who believes in him, though it remains questionable whether this trust is rewarded by application and results. the transfer committee knew all this going into the deal, so they had to have some sort of idea of how balotelli would be used

to his credit i think that balotelli has had to work harder than he ever has in this system, he's had to chase lost causes, he's had to defend deep in his own half, he does some decent hold-up work every now and then, etcetera, it's just that he snaps at every quarter chance that comes his way (as he is won't to do).

ps as i recall balotelli isn't a bad striker of the ball from distance, so why does gerrard, whose set pieces get worse and worse all the time, not let him give it a whack every now and then? if he scores a set piece or two, that would do wonders for his confidence and his morale

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We have a commanding centre back called Sakho - if Rodgers actually bothered to play Sakho and Lovren together for an extended period of time you might see some improvement. I wouldn't hold your breath though.

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16 Nov 2014 04:23:16
Hi Ed001,

On another note can you do your badges & then become the LFC manager?

And take on Ed002 as assistant manager?

You have myh vote! lol

Crooky

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{Ed001's Note - unless a club puts you through the badges, they are very difficult to get mate. If a club puts you through, you not only get fast tracked but passed no matter how crap your grades are. Otherwise I would have done them years ago, even though they are a joke.}

16 Nov 2014 07:57:05
Ed - couldn't agree more
It is shocking how many ex p
Ayers,are fast tracked through - just because you were a good player doesn't mean you're a good coach or manager.
I did my UEFA B and two players on there have managed PL teams - both were awful in the practical and theory sessions!!
In fact, on the laws of the game bit one couldn't pick out the foul throws!!

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{Ed001's Note - Sammy Lee, when he was getting his badges, he was bottom of everything, yet got awarded the highest grades. The coaching badges in England are a joke anyway, but letting the failures through simply because they are being put through by top clubs is not going to help matters!}

Interesting thread guys.
So does the standard change in Europe then?
Is that why we have so many foreign coaches, because they had better training?

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{Ed002's Note - Coaching is one option given to younger players who are unlikely to make the grade in many foreign counties - certainly in the Netherlands and Belgium, and certainly in Portugal and Spain. France deals with it differently.}

16 Nov 2014 10:40:17
This is a really interesting subject. Goes to show how much a reputation can get you thru to higher and better places. Always wanted to do my badges, but time and money are a pain.

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Thanks Ed.
Is the standard of coaching training higher on the continent?
Or just a better standard of pupil?

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{Ed002's Note - It is more structured, and certainly in places like Spain there are far more coaches than in England - and that leads to fewer kids per coach and therefore more time per kid.

I appreciate that this statement is dipping in to the realms of simple mathematics and will cause confusion to many.}

16 Nov 2014 15:28:38
Can you think of any English coaches that got to the highest level just based on talent? For example working his way up from lower leagues?

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16 Nov 2014 16:20:09
I appreciate that this statement is dipping in to the realms of simple mathematics and will cause confusion to many
===========================
Why? what was the reason for this. You complain about getting all sorts , but then you come out with silly remark unprovoked. You are much loved in here and many hang-on to every little information you give and comments you make. Are you real life Melvin Udall by any chance

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{Ed002's Note - It is the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. Suck it up and move on.}

No wonder some ex players cum coaches are so clueless.

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17 Nov 2014 08:26:02
I've always thought that the niche ex-players have in coaching is personal management. Spending time with the young players (and the older ones) and sharing simpler experience and life advice having been there and done it all - how to cope with the fame, release the pressure constructively etc. Unless they show some actual aptitude for coaching then they should be taking basic courses in leadership and personal consultancy if they want to stay in the game and work with young players. And of course, only pass if they show that they understand the lessons and get how to be a good mentor

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It cannot be good for any player to have substandard coaches instructing them how to play - I understand that, with certain players, they have an aura and personality and this brings its own positives but really, it seems more damaging than productive to fast track coaches who are turd just because they used to play football.

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15 Nov 2014 20:38:58
Ed001 -

Should we expect Brendan to get the axe sooner or later? I understand a lot of this will depend on the form after the international break, but surely the owners must be feeling that a change is necessary due to the style of play, not merely because of the results?

Cheers

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{Ed001's Note - personally I would expect his situation to be in jeopardy due to the promises he made. If we drop out of contention completely, then I don't see how he can stay.}

There is no way he will last the full season. If he promised the owners a title challenge for the premier league as well as the champions league, he may as well quit right now. Winning one of the domestic cups is the only promise he may be able to keep. His arrogance and ineptness will cost him his job before the season ends.

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IMO Rogers will be there until the end of the season unless we get into the relegation zone, which I don't think we will. Our owners are the kind that don't sack mis season. I personally think he sould have gone by now but I don't think the owners are willing to go this route.

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They sacked Roy H, mate.

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To be fair Jimmy Liverpool and Roy were a mismatch from word go and with Kenny lurking in the bushes it was only a matter of time before Roy went even before he arrived.
He had to take the job because let's face it its a biggie but I'm just shocked Liverpool didn't go straight for Kenny anyway.

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{Ed002's Note - Dalglish had been out of the business and out of touch for many years.}

Yeah Ed I realize that, but Roy was never going to Be a fans favorite where Kenny was always going to get more time understanding and support than Roy could ever dream of which after Benitez I felt the new man needed at that time

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{Ed002's Note - It is really nothing to do with the fans.}

I think BRs job is hanging by the next two games
Losses against Palace and Ludogrets and FSG will get rid
Personally I would like some stabilty but you can't argue with the fact that he's digging his own grafe

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Kenny may well have been out of touch for many years ed, but in his first 6 months he was absolute boss.

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I agree Philistine. However, I don`t think FSG will sack him especially if they don`t have a suitable replacement.

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As a United supporter I'd love you to get dalgleish back then again I'm enjoying Rodgers alleviates the state of united lol

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Worry about your own team, bro because they ain`t lighting it up the league either.

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15 Nov 2014 23:53:52
Hi eds all well with you.

To all reds writing off all the players signed this summer Terry McDermott said on the the radio today it took him a season to settle down and play his normal game he even thought he wasn't good enough at 1 point now I'm not saying all will come good but all can't be lost.Terry Mac 40 years ago this week signed for the reds Y.N.W.A.

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I agree and disagree Tommy.
The point is it will be too late. We had the chance to build on last year with established talent who could help us take it up a notch but instead it feels like rebuilding or transitioning. If we keep doing this every 2-3 years I don't ever see us moving forward

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