Liverpool Banter Archive June 16 2016

16 Jun 2016 21:25:40
How much are b Munich paying us to take gotze?

16 Jun 2016 22:00:45
I am not keen on him, but seriously? You can't judge the man whilst he is played out of position, and as a striker in a team completely lacking any invention.

16 Jun 2016 22:08:12
I don't know MK. It just feels like it would be a waste of money in a position we don't really need. Is he any better then Coutinho or Firmino i honestly don't think so. Perhaps if Coutinho leaves then we should go for him.

16 Jun 2016 22:23:44
I am fairly certain Goetze didn't play as a striker and I would argue it is Goetze's job alongside Ozil and Draxler to be inventive.

16 Jun 2016 22:49:51
Me too, I just don't think he's what he's made out to be at the moment as his BVB days are way behind him. IMO, he's not needed.

16 Jun 2016 23:53:39
AG, take it from someone who started off as a kid in midfield, and then changed to a striker; it is completely different.

Instead of receiving more controlled passes you can run on to or turn with, you suddenly start getting balls fizzed in to you at all different heights whilst a guy a foot taller than you and 3st heavier is breathing down your neck. Instead of running at people with the ball, you have to muscle your way past them to get to the ball. Instead of ghosting into space unnoticed, you have to learn to lose a defender marking you tightly. On the odd chance you can turn and run at people the defence won't back off you, because there is rarely someone ahead of you trying to get in behind, so they can stand you up or close you down. Not to mention it doubles the pressure on you when you are presented with a chance as you are expected to score as a forward.

Call it a false 9 or whatever you want. But ultimately, Gotze is Germany's most advanced player and that is completely different to having runners ahead of you and being able to see the game unfold. I'm not the biggest, and at 5ft8 I find it much easier and less physically demanding in midfield. It requires less pressing, less sprinting, less physical battles and it is less pressure! Strikers and goalkeepers get it in the neck more than anyone else because when they make mistakes, it very visibly affects the score line.

17 Jun 2016 00:29:11
Götze did play as a striker against Poland. Didn't have his best game to be fair.

17 Jun 2016 01:26:12
At the mooted price he's worth a gamble in my opinion. We have a manager who has already offered really strong evidence that he can transform a player, look at Lovren for one. If Klopp is interested it's because he thinks Götze would suit the team he's trying to build, he already knows Götze's strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps we'll only move if we lose Coutinho?

17 Jun 2016 06:25:35
I don't think he is worth a gamble.
Balotelli - talented player, attitude problem signed as a gamble for a decent price - didn't work out.

I think it's time we stopped buying players who are out of form or have other issues. It's not a position we're short in anyway. If Coutinho goes, there are plenty of ways he could be replaced, but I wouldn't risk Götze.

17 Jun 2016 08:49:33
Goetze is like Balotelli?! That is just outrageous and sensationalist.

Balotelli was a far bigger gamble than Goetze will ever be. Unlike Balotelli, Goetze actually tries to make use of his natural talent by working like a professional footballer, and is actually effective on the field.

17 Jun 2016 09:18:32
At one point I wanted him, but was unaware how much hassle he is. So after reading this site about him. Now I'd say pass, he's not worth the risk, doesn't sound like he's worthy on putting our shirt on.

17 Jun 2016 10:18:34
As someone who plays in midfield it is definitely not easier than as a striker! The sheer amount of ground you have to cover, and opposition players for that matter, especially depending on their formation. Plus, some of the best strikers have been short guys who don't out muscle anyone. Onto the actual point, I think this is one signing we don't need at this current time.

17 Jun 2016 11:28:58
Totally agree stuie, midfield is much harder work but the main difference I find is that I don't need to be as explosive as I need to be as a striker ( which caused me many injuries) when I am asked to play upfront you need a few games to get used to playing that position to be effective ( back to goal, lay offs and sprints behind the defence) . Gotze doesn't normally play that role so you can't blame him for not setting the pitch on fire.

17 Jun 2016 00:45:56
How good was he in his bvb team.

Dont forget who he had around him

Lewondowski
Reus gotze blaz
Bender gundogan

That was one hell of a team. Blaz was immense aswel until injuries robbed him, have to say watching him for Poland wouldn't say no to asking for a little loan if he was available. Have to take it easy because of his injury rwxord but he's quick, experienced and nos klopp.

16 Jun 2016 18:48:50
Hi eds.

Wonder if I could ask your expert opinion compared to my plebian one.

Gareth bales free kick today against England. assuming you have seen it?

But what makes it so special? Commentators on TV and radio were going crazy about it. but I just don't see it. To me great free kicks are payets numerous ones this year. risse against united. beckhams numerous ones.

So what makes bales so special. is it simply the pace and speed he gets it up and down over the wall?

Sorry if it's a daft question.

Regards.
Tom.

{Ed001's Note - no idea, I didn't watch. I very rarely watch international football as it bores me. I spend the season watching 3 or 4 games a day every day, so tend to take the summer off watching matches. I made an effort for the World Cup and it was not worth it, so I haven't bothered this summer for the Euros or Copa.}

16 Jun 2016 19:01:13
Nothing special about his free kick. Joe Hart was terrible.

16 Jun 2016 19:16:15
I think by saying it was amazing it detracts from harts howler.

16 Jun 2016 19:16:44
Hart positioned himself terribly should have been more central and despite that he got two hands to it so should have been able to keep it out.

16 Jun 2016 19:23:15
Tom not a daft question. joe hart was all at fault for that.

35 yards out centre of goal, there was no real up and over the wall as it was that far out.

Clanger from hart IMO.

16 Jun 2016 19:34:33
Guys don't be surprised at Hart's mistake as well as you shouldn't be surprised that Vardy came on and scored. I won't go into why.

16 Jun 2016 19:37:33
It was a good free kick that was on target. Became a goal because Hart has butter fingers and let the ball slip through his outstretched hands.

16 Jun 2016 20:36:03
Hart is overrated. English players seem to get a cult status after a few games and seem irreplaceable even when others deserve a chance. Just look at Rooney. English pundits trying to convince everyone including themselves that he is good in midfield. His Hollywood passes disguise the fact he gets caught on the ball and doesn't do the simple thing when available. Then there's kane and pundits saying hodge was brave putting on Dan and Vardy. so brave putting on the in form Vardy and England's most dangerous, most talented, most natural footballer I'm Dan 😅.

16 Jun 2016 22:51:36
Hart is below average at best and today showed that for the upteenth time.

17 Jun 2016 06:17:23
It was a good shot (nothing spectacular) from about 35 yards, not much movement on the ball. Joe Hart is crap is the simple answer like most posters noticed and the Eds have said for a while

17 Jun 2016 06:26:46
Hart = Clangerprone.

17 Jun 2016 07:11:41
No body seems to have picked up on Hart was laughing to himself just before free kick was taken. It was like he was saying to himself"really Gareth, you are thinking of shooting and beating me from there"? Made himself look stupid doing that. Watch it again and see.

17 Jun 2016 07:44:06
Basically Hart needed to deploy the "rashoumon" tactic and then Bale would have had no chance. 😎.

17 Jun 2016 08:55:08
Totally agree slaphead that really annoyed me he is an over confident and over paid Head and Shoulders pin up boy!

16 Jun 2016 15:23:28
question for the eds.

how often, if at all, does being way on international duty effect player decisions on who to sign for? as in, they get friendly with someone whilst there and try and engineer a move to their team? or vice versa, a player mentions to his manager someone would be interested in moving to their team after a chat they had whilst in the international set up? or can players be sent in with agendas from their club manager to do a bit of a "sell" on their club or to sound them out if they would fancy moving to them?

hope that makes sense.

{Ed002's Note - It doesn't.}

16 Jun 2016 20:02:27
I thought Coutinho probably helped put in a good word for us last year at Copa, which led to a quick deal for Firmino. Could be wrong, though.

16 Jun 2016 13:42:01
Eds do you think that Matip will be a starter . or do you think that Klopp will go for another defender? or stick with Lovren and Sakho?

16 Jun 2016 13:51:16
I'm guessing he will start.
Lovren and matip.

16 Jun 2016 13:53:54
001/ 2 haven't had their committee meeting to decide who will start the first game yet ask again in a couple of weeks or better still don't.

16 Jun 2016 14:31:57
Starter mate defo, one of the best CBS in Germany.

16 Jun 2016 14:56:02
Think he's been brought in to help sort out the goals conceded by set pieces as well. Not doing that from the bench is he.

16 Jun 2016 19:50:31
@1985mikey1985 Lovren and Matip would be a horrific CB pairing. Not sure how you think either one even comes close to starting over Sakho?

16 Jun 2016 20:23:56
I like sakho but that's my thoughts on it. We are terrible at defending set pieces, matip is better than sakho at defending them, therefore starts ahead of him.

16 Jun 2016 22:55:49
All three are very capable. Matip is also a true DM who can play there if need be but I'd be happy with either pairing provided it works.

16 Jun 2016 13:00:34
Mino Raiola (football agent and fixer) has been quoted as having said that he has talked to Besiktas about taking Balotelli. He is confident it will happen. May the man live a 1000 years if this is true! (Giant sigh of relief) .

16 Jun 2016 13:29:34
Here, Here!

16 Jun 2016 11:21:11
Eds with regards to takeovers there is the test for the owners to check they are suitable or what ever. My question was if a group, for example FSG, were to takeover at a club would all the people involved have to be checked as co owners or would it be one person as a figure head checked?

{Ed002's Note - The test is of owners and directors.}

16 Jun 2016 11:21:11
Eds with regards to takeovers there is the test for the owners to check they are suitable or what ever. My question was if a group, for example FSG, were to takeover at a club would all the people involved have to be checked as co owners or would it be one person as a figure head checked?

{Ed002's Note - The test is of owners and directors.}

16 Jun 2016 10:49:16
Think klopp left his little black book of transfer targets in the Dortmund dressing room!

16 Jun 2016 08:48:00
Tah mate. nice one 👍.

16 Jun 2016 07:55:16
So whilst we are being linked with 100s of players, replacing our left back to sure up our defence and a fast winger etc etc. There doesn't seem to be as much focus on our tactics and whether they are correct?

Obviously how we play has to suit the players at our disposal so the two things are linked. However, if we play the same style of football then it may always leave us short at the back given what left backs are available. So should Klopp look to address this tactically rather than just buying a left back that doesn't exist right now?

Hope I managed to get my point across - it is early!

16 Jun 2016 08:07:44
I understand what you're saying. The manager and his staff will surely right a few wrongs tactically over the summer. No doubt they will practice new set ups, positioning, in game scenarios.
I don't know a great deal about the coaching side of things, just reading between the lines of what has already been said.
Finally you would certainly hope the manager is buying players to suit his style of football. Otherwise you end up with another balotelli, lambert, benteke on your hands- decent enough players who don't get played to their strengths.

16 Jun 2016 08:18:07
If we start with the new season with more or less the same starting eleven with new players occupying the bench, then its an unsuccessful window for me. The window hasn't opened yet, But no club would would want to buy a player on the final day.

16 Jun 2016 08:40:09
Brilliant point Higgins.
I have been watching footie from all my life and all the great managers and great team in the past and present plays with a natural holding / DM. This gives so much protection in the middle and for the full backs who go high up the pitch. How many more full backs and CB's are we going to buy to finally realize we need to think it differently.
Barcelona and Real are living examples of offensive full backs.
You could search all you want in and around Europe and you wouldn't find orthodox traditional full backs.

16 Jun 2016 11:33:22
Nonsense Harry. The other night a Portugal team full of quality players got held to a draw by an Iceland team full of average players.

Iceland played a flat 4-4-2. No dedicated holding midfielder. Portugal on the other hand did play a proper holding midfielder in Danilo, and yet despite their superior individual quality, still got embarassed.

There is not a single best tactic. If there was don't you think all managers in pro football would've figured it out by now?

The tactics have to be right for the competition you play in, the particular opponent you are facing, and the players you have in the squad. But most importantly, they have to be applied correctly with discipline. If you get all that spot on, you won't get beaten. You then need an injection of quality to win you the game.

Leicester won the title with a 2 man midfield, with both players in box to box roles. Chelsea won it the year before with Matic and Fabregas also both playing in box to box roles.

You claim it is required to be solid defensively, yet Athletico Madrid are the best defensively on the planet, and they also play a flat 4-4-2 with yep, you guessed it, 2 box to box midfielders!

16 Jun 2016 12:03:05
Thank you MK for posting in length and clearly what I really wasn't bothered doing! But you're 100% right it is a complete myth that you need to have a dedicated defensive midfielder.
Also realistically a defensive midfielder is just a box 2 box midfielder that isn't so comfortable on the ball.

16 Jun 2016 12:29:26
MK,

By holding midfielder I refer to a player who is would positionally, Hold the line and have a goodbyclokgn record or interception of opposition play, also known as disciplined midfielder like Gabi, Matic Dier or anyone of that breed.

The teams you mentioned who plays with only 2 CM in the middle has a very disciplined midfielder with them

Liverpool midfielders mainly Henderson and Can who occupies the midfield are INDCISCUPLINED. Can and Henderson both leaves gaps behind them and never holds the line when one charge forward.

You could call such played any any names ( Holding, DM, CDM, DLP ) they all are sound positionally.

Kante for Leicester and France
Matic for Chelsea
Busquets at Barca
Casmerio at Real
Kondogbia at Inter
Carrick at UTD
Diet for Spurs
Xhaka / Eleney / Coquelin - Arsenal
Motta / Rabiot for PSG
Alonso for Bayern

The list goes on and unfrotunately Liverpool midfielders haven't got discipline to play there.

I have not claimed in it post about the no of midfielders to play (2 or 3 ) .

Thanks for the read.

16 Jun 2016 16:00:39
@Game of Thrones - Lucas is an excellent defensive midfielder. He perhaps lacks the range of passing of some of the others in the list (and maybe even some of their attacking endeavour) but he more than capable of holding position and breaking up attacks. It is the managers choice to use him or not though - I'd start him every game personally but Kloppo obviously doesn't favour him so much and that's just one of those things, ever manager has their own idea's.

p. s. i'd also argue that Stewart is looking pretty decent in that role and Chivarella looks like he could be a real star in a season or 2 in that position. We do have the players but, as always, their is often many other factors to consider.

16 Jun 2016 16:37:20
Harry, could you please let us know when you decide to change your hobby horse from DM to something else. You didn't let us know when you changed from DLP to DM, so we were all confused and angry for a while.

Don't mid how you let us know, although smoke signals are easy to do and decipher.

:)

16 Jun 2016 22:57:52
Zed, that depends only what direction the wind is blowing with Harry.

15 Jun 2016 22:30:34
Klopp has been invited to watch Argentina play Chile. Do Liverpool have interest in Matias Kranevitter? Although he signed a long-term agreement in 2015, he played very few games and he looks more effective doing a mascherano for the national team than for Atletico.

16 Jun 2016 03:37:03
They already played last week and Argentina won 2-0 so don't know what game he's going to watch.

16 Jun 2016 05:47:27
Played again yesterday and won 3-0.