Liverpool Banter Archive February 16 2015

 

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16 Feb 2015 20:52:49
Go ed Preston!!

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16 Feb 2015 20:49:34
So we come up against Bilic a good manager in his international career (haven't followed his club career) so if anyone has please fill me in on him as a coach

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Just come back from turkey with work. I asked some rather partisan fenerbache fans for their opinion of our opponents and even they conceded they're the best team in the league by a distance. Biblical has had a big influence according to them.

Not going to be easy

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16 Feb 2015 20:45:42
So I was just think of all the praise Ibe is getting . The amount of people who blasted ROGERS for bringing him back from loan so to be fair well done Ibe and well done Rogers for having the balls to creak him back
So far so good

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Ill give him credit for that. this wouldn't even be a talking point though, had he not loaned Ibe out in the first place.

things are going well, i hope BR can keep this up.

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Sorry BUT disagree. Many on here including ED01 disagreed with Ibe being loaned, and Suso and Tex not getting a chance while buying Marko for 20m. In their view, we should have kept them and used the money on getting a top player which I cannot disagree w/ even tho Marko is showing his worth and deserves our support. Ibe is back because based on Ed01`s info several days back, BR asked for more money in Jan and was "ordered" (Ed01`s word exactly) to use the players he had or use the academy boys hence, Ibe got recalled to the chagrin of Steve MaClaren. If you wanna give him credit for doing what he was ORDERED to do and playing a player that many of us thought should have never been loaned out in the first place IMO and the opinion of many others here, then that is your choice. BR cannot be hailed for having the balls to do anything because he was ordered to do it. Just relaying the info Ed01 put out the other day.

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Redohio, agree with u. I think Brendan wanted to bring in Shaqiri in January which would have pushed Texiera and Ibe completely out of the picture but thankfully the owners stood firm and brought Ibe back from loan. However, good old Brendan seems to want to take all the credit for Ibe's performances as well and its getting on my nerves. Why cannot he just be honest and truthful instead of taking all the credit every time? Eds correct me if i'm wrong on this one but at least this is what i think happened.

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{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what you are talking about.}

17 Feb 2015 07:44:06
And also in fairness, most people weren't happy with Ibe being recalled because based on BR's track record, they doubted he would play - not because they didn't think he was good enough or they didn't want him with us

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17 Feb 2015 07:54:20
Indian Buzzer, that's one hell of a conspiracy theory based on no evidence what so ever.

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17 Feb 2015 10:11:33
On the flip side, Ibe wouldn't have been the same player he is now unless he got half a season of regular football. He is full of confidence after an excellent spell with Derby, and that reflects in his current performances. He wouldn't have had anywhere near the same sort of game time had he not gone out on loan.

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Don't recall many blasting Rodgers for bringing him back. Most wanted him given a chance. I was happy when he came on in his first game back but my head dropped when he didn't make the bench for the next game. Great having him back but if he isn't going to make the bench then he should have been left at derby.

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My point was how quick people are to slate BR for things but not give credit where its due

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Not a good example, he was told to bring him back as there wasn't funds for a new signing and then he left him off the bench after his first appearance ( when he did well) can't see why that deserves credit.
Ray Charles could have seen Ibe is a great talent who deserves a chance.

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17 Feb 2015 18:59:47
Buzzer your constant bashing of BR is embarrassing. Give it a rest FFS. JW Henry does not order players back off loans. Inquiries were made about Shaqiri, and he simply didn't want to come here

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16 Feb 2015 20:43:01
I thought lawrenson was a united fan?

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16 Feb 2015 19:49:40
Very happy with the draw :)

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16 Feb 2015 20:32:53
Couldn't be better!

If Utd get past Preston, either them or the Gunners will be out for the semis, one other EPL team out of Vill and the Baggies will be out.

Lovely, now we need to avoid the Blackburn banana skin!

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Ye, we had more than our fair share of bad luck this season - not in the FA draws though. Would be happier with Arsenal hosting the Mancs rather than the other way around but other than that - couldn't ask for a better draw. Of course Stoke conceded 4 against them, if we don't come focused we can pay. And as I write this Preston score.

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Preston has every chance to go through. They are playing really well.

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My gut kept telling me we would get a home draw vs Blackburn and low and behold, there it was. Stoke got reduced to 10 men and got stumped as a result. It will be a good game and if we play the way we know how to and the selection is spot on, we will prevail and off we go to Wembley and at that point, anything can happen. Go Reds!!

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BTW, Phil Dowd was at his incompetent best today because 2 if not all Utd`s goals should never have counted. Roo dived for the pen, was interfering w/ play IMO for the first and Fellaini got away with a blatant shove in the back of the defender for the second. They were pathetic again and IMO, they will be lucky to get 4th.

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You say lucky to get 4th, but you've just highlighted why they will. A league of weak refs.
Only technology, like what Hawkeye has done for goal line, will help football produce true league tables. Offsides, free kicks, penalties, cards and off ball incidents. They all need tech support.

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16 Feb 2015 19:47:24
Great draw couldn't have been much better .cmon Preston

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16 Feb 2015 19:44:22
Perfect draw that lads.

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16 Feb 2015 19:42:41
Great fa cup draw. Blackburn at anfield

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16 Feb 2015 19:40:03
F A CUP Draw home to blackburn

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Hopefully this is our year

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16 Feb 2015 19:13:34
I am delighted with Markovics improvement the last while but do people think he has the raw ability to make as a tricky winger and not a work horse like kuyt
Potential is a term used a lot but he doesn't seem as quick as I expected yet to see him skin someone and burst away

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16 Feb 2015 19:22:34
He is a winger and was at Benfica, He could also play as second striker or off the main striker. The lad loves to cut inside and has got terrific pace.
Shame He much like Ibe would become like Young and Valencia under BR ( WB )

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MARKOVIC is to lightweight, Jordan IBE will overtake him.

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Lightweight like Silva or Sterling or Coutinho?

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Why do you have to be strong and powerful to be a winger now. It's never stopped Robben

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21 years old I'm sure he will bulk up

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He's a kilo lighter than Hendo for goodness sake.

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I mean Sterling is lightweight in that sense but I just never seen markovic use his pace or trickery to leave a man in the dust is all also panics in the final 3rd but he will get better with age and experience in end product !!! But trickery and skill and ability ect .

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17 Feb 2015 02:56:30
I have to say I agree with you a bit. He never really uses that flair he had at benfica. He's thinking WAY to much, and that's a hard problem to overcome. He works hard, so I'm sure it's possible. I hope only the best for him. Good luck to him

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Players are commonly shocked by the physicality of the Premier League. Although Sterling is small, he is actually pretty strong. Hopefully Markovic can put a few kilos on over the next 6 months and be stronger for the 2015/16 season.

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16 Feb 2015 18:17:06
hey ed, if we appointed a dof to work with br, whoever it may be, do you think bf would bring the club forward??
thanks ed

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{Ed002's Note - It really won't be like that.}

Could I ask how it would work??
or a shortened version.

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{Ed002's Note - This has been done to death.}

16 Feb 2015 17:10:32
Ed001 if your about mate.The story of Henderson going to Fulham as part of the Dempsey deal is that 100% on the button?Cause I remember another story out at the time and I am sorry but I can't remember who said it that it was just a loan deal.Can you clear that up for me please?
Thanks all Eds&Reds
BarryinLouth

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{Ed001's Note - it was initially a loan deal, Fulham were keen on it being a permanent deal, but Hendo rejected the chance to even discuss either kind of move with them.}

16 Feb 2015 17:59:24
Thank you Ed001.Thank God he stayed.What a honest and decent player he is
BarryinLouth

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Def like Hendo but he seems to have become a bit more verbal in a negative way towards refs since his Vice Captain role - might be wrong but wonded if yellow cards have increased since. Maybe EMS can clarify.

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No one saying that about Borini. I guess Borini just needs too justify staying by turning the managers head for game time

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So we tried to swap Jordan Henderson for Clint Dempsey?

Wow

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16 Feb 2015 19:23:35
Dempsy scored close to 25 goals in that season for Fulham.
There is no real surprise in going for him.

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{Ed002's Note - A very embarrassing time for the club - particularly Mr Werner.}

It was aweful TW business and thank heavens, Hendo knuckled down and stayed because he has been pivotal for us since then. Great determination and work ethic and some sublime passing ability. 10 assists on the season isn`t that bad for a "side-ways" passer.

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Ed001 why was it embarrassing for Tom Werner? As a fellow American was he keen to do the Dempsey deal at the expense of Hendo?

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{Ed002's Note - Liverpool were tapping up the player.}

16 Feb 2015 20:06:24
Ohh yes. I missed it. The tapping up and those stuffs. Two players I loved from fulham those time Ed. Dembele and Dempsy.

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16 Feb 2015 20:10:10
In what way was it embarrassing for Mr Werner??

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{Ed002's Note - Because of the tapping up.}

And of course, tapping up rarely happens in football.

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16 Feb 2015 15:41:31
If the rumours are true, then Markovic will be banner for 4 European games. Absolutely outrageous. I watched Ivanovic assault someone and get nothing, but Markovic's finger flick warrants 4 games? Lack of consistency, albeit from different associations.

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17 Feb 2015 02:31:44
So you get 3 games for stamping and 4 for brushing someone with your hand? Unbelievable.

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Different committes I think

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16 Feb 2015 14:48:22
I have to say the site has again been engaging, stimulating and a fabulous read for the last few days. The posts have been articulate and thought provoking and the Ed's have taken the time out to reply descriptively and with gusto. Kudos to everyone! Now it's humble pie time. I have been Brenda's biggest critic this season but he has impressed me with his tactical humility in recent games and the subsequent upturn in results has made me think that he should be given the opportunity to stay but only with a DOF with a high press system. Also I think this DOF should be me.

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I don't see why people want a Director of Football. I think Brendan continues to do a fine job at Liverpool. This year was always going to be tough, but we have turned round our form in the last couple of months and still have a chance of reaching the top 4.

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{Ed001's Note - most of the jobs a DoF would do have already been taken out of Brendan's hands, so it makes sense to formalise them into a specific role.}

What you are saying is correct, but the introduction of a DoF also breeds pressure on the manager. Not perhaps by the club itself, but by the press. This in turn can put some negative attention onto the club. A DoF in England never turns out well.

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{Ed002's Note - Nonsense. There are plenty of examples of it working well in England - the top two clubs in the EPL right now for example.}

You mean the two clubs that are backed to the hills financially?

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Then you go by spoiling it all by saying something stupid like. .Ed's 001, please show LFC Londoner some clemency. lol

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{Ed002's Note - It is obvious he understands very little about money being spent by clubs. Chelsea have profited from transfer each of the last three windows whilst Rodgers pisses vast amounts away and plunges the club deeper in to debt.}

LFC_Londoner, u lost all credibility when u said Brendan is doing a good job. And your jibe at Chelsea is just stupid and bitter. As much as it pains me to say this, Chelsea are probably the best run club in the country. The business they conduct in the transfer market is remarkable and their sponsorship deals and other income sources are way more than LFC. In short their net spend is lower and profits are higher than LFC so please stop making ridiculous comments.

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Again, i'm surprised how Fsg walk away smelling of roses. Did they sanction the signings? Maybe they are as much to blame foe the debt than Rodgers? Or are they immune from any real flak? Blame the fans for Kenny being manager and blame Rodgers being left with the keys to the safe. These are high powered business men right? Or on the last seies of The Apprentice?

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{Ed002's Note - FSG don't pick the players.}

The_Brendans_Advocate
I think we are all on board with the high press.
That should be written into his contract.

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Ok! They do write the cheques so to speak. The long and short of it is that Fsg have done more damage to the club and held it back more than any one manager/ dof or player. After all the made the appointments to start with.Dalglish too old, Commoli flake, Rodgers too young, now a flake. Fsg, responsible good owners, give them time they will get one right eventually.

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The signings that people are complaining about are the ones that are proving to be good buys. Moreno, Can, Markovic and Lallana are all first team starters, and will be with the team for 5+ years you hope. Balotelli and Lovren are looking like poor pieces of business. Many managers will have a number of bad signings. We play the best football I have seen from a Liverpool club for many a year, and that is down to Brendan.

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16 Feb 2015 14:12:08
Hi ed001,

With Kolo back from AFCON, what role do you see him playing for the remainder of the season? Also, since his contract is ending this summer, is Liverpool going to offer him an extension? Kind of feel that we need his leadership and experience at the back and especially in the dressing room next season since we will have quite a young squad what with Gerrard and probably Johnson leaving.

Cheers.

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{Ed001's Note - I expect him to get a few chances on the right hand side of defence, as the squad will need freshening up at times. I think Can will have to play in midfield at times, then he will be in the running to replace him at the back. Mostly he will be cover though, as he has a bit more pace than Lovren and puts in more effort than Johnson.

From what I have been told, he will not get a new contract though. Obviously that might change if he puts in some stunning performances for the rest of the season. I can't see it being anything other than a year on the table if he does change the club's mind, on a lower wage than his current one.}

16 Feb 2015 14:54:58
Thanks for the prompt reply as always, ed001.

By the way, do you work for the club or do you just have some well-informed sources who do because you always seem to have the correct and most up-to-date inside scoop?

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{Ed001's Note - I do not work for the club, I just talk to a lot of people. I have built up a lot of contacts over the last 13 and a half years of doing this, to add to the few I started with in the beginning.}

Thanks for all the info, Ed!

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{Ed001's Note - welcome mate, if I worked for the club I would not be able to give the info as I would be bound by confidentiality agreements.}

That's not stopping some one leaking the match day squad week after week though is it??

vrcomp
Y.N.W.A.

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{Ed001's Note - that is not me though.}

16 Feb 2015 13:59:15
Jonnyb- That's pretty much it for me. I haven't posted many times on here but i probably sound like a broken record already!

I think the toughest time for Rodgers might be over provided he is learning, none of us really want the bedding in time for a new manager. Do we? I mean he's not getting any money to spend next summer anyway, so he has to work in a practical way i.e: using the talented youngsters at his disposal.

Anyways, on a lighter note i just saw that film "15 minutes that shook the world". Laughed my arse off!!!
"Ratboy":=D:=D

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Ahh the bedding in myth. Like Koeman this season with Southampton? Or Monk with Swansea?

Right manager/head coach etc = instant improvement

If we get in a top young coach like De Boer and place them under a proven DOF I see no way we can possibly do worse than 7th place after two thirds of the season.

I have no idea about availability but Simeone would do well at a club with more resources in a league not dominated by richer clubs.

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I don`t want another coach as well provided BR is willing to get the help he needs and focus on coaching. If he refuses then he will need to be shown the door and rightfully so because many of us and the owners have no time for a manager who ONLY knowswhat he is doing after half a season is gone. We need a managr who knows what he is doing the WHOLE season.

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Have you ever started a new job, moved to a new school???
The bedding in myth is true of pretty much every change in circumstance in most aspects of life.
Why is it a not true in Football?
You could not pick up everything in your remit at a new job on your first day could you?
It takes time to adapt.
Some adaptations are seamless and some less so.
I do like Simeone though.

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Jonny is right EMS. If you want to reel of names, maybe try our old foe Sir Alex! i'd rather they hadnt given him time to 'bed in'

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Jonny, BR has been here for three years. If he has not bedded in yet after to his credit, we almost won the PL last year, I don`t know when he will. Gone are the days when managers are giving 7 yrs to get it done. BR was given a 3 yr mandate and he has failed especially this year and regardless of all the excuse, spin and suppositions that people wanna make, he knew what he was getting into and he made the promises 4th place was not one of those pomises) that made them release the funds that the owners did not trust him with to begin with. The owners have given him large sums of money and they want to win the PL because that is who they are and I for one, wanna see us win the PL in my lifetime. Is that too much to ask, Jonny? They have won championships here in the U.S in Baseball w/ the Boston Red Sox, a failed team for over half a century until they bought it and turned it around by spending money or doing moneyball as a strategy so they are willing to do what it takes to win and whenever the manager messed up, he got the chop, period. If BR cannot give them that and is pissing money away like water, wasting half a season for no reason, and refusing to learn from his mistakes and worse, continues to repeat them along w/ all the other BS that I will not mention, WHY should they keep him? Of all the posts you post, you are yet to answer that question with a straight answer because IMO, all you do is make excuses and supositions for him all in the name of positivity. Please I would appreciate it if you could answer that w/ a straight answer that I can logically understand.

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A league NOT dominated by the rich??
Man City, Utd and Chelsea for the last 10 yrs+ have been amongst the richest in the world. Where have the titles gone during this time?

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Sounds like you needed to get that off your chest redohio!!
The owners you say don't trust him.
Did they not appoint him?
And Baseball is a bad example because they give their coaches time as well.
And I said 5 years not 7.

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16 Feb 2015 12:43:12
As regards Rodger's favoured style of play, i keep seeing that people are convinced that he will somehow revert to the possession/slow pass stuff at nearest opportunity. I love reading different opinions on here but do people genuinely believe that BR is that short of intelligence?? Some people take longer to learn, especially stubborn ones?

I can only assume he knew his head was, and maybe still is on the block for the way things went during the first few months. As another poster mentioned, it's unlikely he could hope for a "better" job unless he considers managing Levante or some such team as better. In other words, i think the guy is learning and although it might be a bit later than it should have been. If he wants to continue managing a huge club, then i see him doing what's best for it, and himself.

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I agree completely King.
I think appointing someone with his experience was the wrong move but now we have done that I don't think after 2.5 yrs in the job he has been terrible.
And I would also say that there are lots of positive signs that he will be a success in the future, so why don't we allow him to continue?
I would rather know that he is absolutely not the right person before getting rid.
I am nowhere near that view at the moment.

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16 Feb 2015 13:14:29
I certainly think he took too long in reimplementing this high intensity pressing game again. However, if we can't control possession whilst using this tactic then fatigue becomes a real possibility as we get into the business end of the season. There needs to be a good mix of when to press and when to slow the play down in order to rest and control.

Rodgers hasn't yet got this spot on in the early parts, but there needs to be more than just a 'high press' for success over a season. Particularly when we play 2-3 games a week.

If he can find a way to combine his preferred methods and the ones we have seen relative success in, then I think he can do a fantastic job in terms of winning titles and trophies.

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I do genuinely beleive Rodgers is that short of intelligence, yes.

His press conference comments alone could justify that opinion. He has started all 3 seasons at the club with the same boring and ineffective style before changing it too an effective style in January.

A better question would be to the Rodgers sympathisers; What has Rodgers atually done to convince you he won't make the exact same mistake he's now made 3 years in a row?

I don't even agree with Ed001 that he is a good coach. I've watched Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Lovren, Ilori, Gerrard, Sahin, Shelvey, Alberto, Aspas, Moses and Yesil regress under his coaching. I think he is tactically good when his job is on the line, but even then only offensively. Defending is still part of coaching. His fluent style (he one he reverts too every January) seems to suit certain players and he does definitely improve players technically. So what, should I praise him for raising Skrtel's passing accuracy to 93%? Because that's wht I want from my centre backs isn't it. I couldn't care less how much he improve players tehnique. He coaches flair out of people in order to retain possession and doesn't have a clue how to coach defensive awareness or positioning. Thus we are poor defensively and can't break down teams who park the bus due to over playing it. He relies on talented individuals rather than good team goals.

He is a limited coach, a shocking manager, a useless judge of a player, and a PR disaster. A good run once a year is not going to rose tint my opinions. Sorry mate. That is my opinion and I'm not fickle enough to change it every week. I'll give him credit when it's due but don't ever confuse that for affection.

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16 Feb 2015 14:33:44
He is a fantastic coach, if you believe the likes lf Markovic, Sterling, Can, Coutinho, Hendo etc have all just magically improved because they have talent then ok, but it's naive. I'm not sure who you think he's coached flair out of? You listed a bunch of names there, and I can't see your point? Some he's helped, some were in decline due to injury or getting to the end of their career, others still young, the likes of Moses has done nothing anywhere else he's been? I'm not sure what your point was on this? Maybe I've misinterpreted or just not understood this part, I don't know.

Using what he says to media as a guideline for intelligence is also in my opinion stupid. Does he sometimes say things he shouldn't or say things too bluntly? Sure. I'm part of the group that believes there are definitely times players need a kick up the arse publically if they aren't responding privately. Not defending how he does things, this is my first mention of his PR antics on here, because I think fans make more of it than anyone else.

I'm not asking, nor expecting you to change your opinion, it's your opinion and your entitled to it. But I think you're laying blame at Rodgers' feet on a few things there, that are maybe a little exaggerated.

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EMS - Fairly said. I always enjoy reading your comments because you're clearly pretty knowledgeable about the subject and i don't profess to be. We all just want to see our club do great things.

I'll admit that my posting about keeping our current manager is mostly from a better the devil you know standpoint, but for the life of me i can't see why the next guy that comes along won't be promising the earth to the owners aswell, with no guarantee of producing it. It's a damn nice job to get to be fair.

I just don't want us getting another Hodgson!!!

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He is THAT short of intelligence. Why? We have living proof of this because in 3 seasons in a row, he has played that dreadful system for the first half of each of those seasons which got us nowhere ESPECIALLY this year where had he just stuck to it and played on-form players, we woulf NOT be 16 points or so behind Chelsea because the core of the team from last year was still there apart from LS (which he knew would be sold so no excuse there). Those are not opinions. They are facts because they have been proven as evidence which is why, we do not trust him UNTIL he proves us wrong on that matter. As EMS said, a good run every half a season proves absolutely NOTHING and we don`t have time as a club for such ditherings and lack of direction because we will NEVER win the PL at this rate. Prob for him is it my be too late because if the owners drop the hammer on him (due to his failure to redeem his promises of which 4th place was NOT one of them, based on the Ed`s info), then we will never know.

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I think he is a good coach and although he opens his mouth a bit more than I would like I want him to stay whether we get top 4 or not

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Big E I think most of those players have improved purely because they've gotten older. Sure Rodgers has improved their technique but they all still have flaws in their games. Watch our team around the penalty area. They look scared to lose possession. That is what I mean regarding the flair thing. There is rarely any creativity, particularly in the first half of every season.

Moses scored 13 goals in a single season for Chelsea before he came to Liverpool. Rodgers actually sent him backwards by forcing him to be less direct.

Sahin was running the midfield for Dortmund and Madrid before Rodgers sent him backwards.

Gus Poyet got more out of Borini than Rodgers can manage.

He has sent Lambert backwards as well.

I think he can improve players in terms of control and passing.

In terms of tactical awareness, flair, discipline etc though he is useless. Hence why he has never improved a single defender.

You list Can and Markovic as though he's elevated their game when both players were better for their previous clubs than they were for us until recently.

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16 Feb 2015 15:25:33
I think he is a good coach, not a fantastic coach at all. Big E as you stated players like markovic or can or hendoo are doing great because of him is totally unfair. They are good players to begin with, the have a lot more potential, so its not rogders who made them world class in a day, any decent manager would have done it. Yes if you are comparing him to Hodgson, Rodgers is fantastic buy compare him to a decent manager he is not even close. I will agree with Ems that the defensive part of his game sucks, he could not sort that out after 2.5 yrs. him playing players out of position is unreal. I can keep on going for days and will not be finished how many faults he has. But on the other hand I think he has the potential to be a very good coach (not a manager), if we get a DOF and rodgers can only concentrate on the coaching aspect of the players he will come good. This job is too big for him he could de a good job if sorts out his defense (first thing every manager should do) and just plain and simple coach player to improve as a team.

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16 Feb 2015 15:30:23
I understand where you're coming from here, but I don't agree that players just improved due to ageing. They may have a more matured and cultured mentality which in turn gives them that mental boost to learn further, but the coaching aspect has to be there.

Can and Markovic have excelled out of their natural position, both very tidy players prior to joining, undoubtedly. But their marked improvement must go down to astute coaching particularly in the tactical aspect due to these guys being employed in unfamiliar positions and still playing very well.

Moses is at Stoke now, and if I'm not mistaken, warms their bench frequently. Why didn't Mourinho want him? Why isn't he a star for Stoke? That isn't down to Rodgers.

Borini for me is an enigma (the situation) because I like the guy, think he should have had a few more opportunities. I believe this is just mismanagement not poor coaching.

Lambert was always a plan B type. He was never going to improve or maintain saints form. I'd suggest he's also been a touch infortunate to play when our midfielders for what ever reason weren't making the necessary supporting runs, they are now.

Sahin, for whatever reason didn't work out, he was employed slightly deeper than maybe he would have liked, but for me he didn't show maturity or character when he did play. He certainly hasn't hit anywhere near the heights he did prior to his injury. Likely didn't help his cause when he was with us.

As for flair, I think that's a case of age often showing in decision making. Coutinho, sterling, Ibe, markovic. All capable of beating a man, pace, trickery. Sometimes try one too many tricks or turns, sometimes want to beat an extra man. Other times seem afraid to run defenders. Sturridge's return also brings flair to our attack, he certainly isn't afraid to run at defenders.

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{Ed001's Note - Moses has been Stoke's star player in a large portion of the season, injury kept him out for a while, but other than that he is a starter.}

16 Feb 2015 15:32:08
That is understandable Can Ibe the King. If your girlfriend was putting you through hell though, would you stay with her incase the next one was worse? :/

I cannot, and will not accept "mediocrity" to coin a phrase from Ed002.

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16 Feb 2015 15:47:23
EMS,
Moses, Aspas, Alberto, Shelvy, Gerrard? Are you serious?

Alberto can't get a game for malaga

Moses is still crap for stoke

Aspas was and still way to light weight for this league

Gerrard is just getting old get a grip, he was a genius last season when it worked with gerrard at a deep lying playmaker position.

Shelvy? he is still as inconsistent and rash as ever at swansea and has done nothing since moving to show his "improvments.

Sakho? is improving every game (get a grip)
If you think the french league where Sakho was dominant for PSG is the same as the PL then you should re think that.

Agger? injury prone and never could defend under any manager.

Skrtel has always been bad in my opinion and actually after watching him for 8 years or so it is just this season i feel good about him in the line up when we play 3 at the back.

Sahin btw was the one bitching like a girl because he was played out of position (which he actually did very well in scoring twice and creating 3 other goals) and demanded to leave to play in DM for Dortmund. It hasn't been going so well for him or them since.

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16 Feb 2015 15:51:47
My mistake re: Moses. Didn't realise he had been injured.

Crazy horse, Markovic had been called a flop early season. Henderson had plenty of criticism until last season. These guys aren't developing purely by themselves. There is 100% a coaching influence.

Although, many may disagree at this level of football. But playing players out of their comfort zone actually helps to develop them tactically. Sterling will be better for playing wide, centrally and up top. Markovic from playing both wing backs and centrally etc.

Admittedly, his defensive coaching obviously needs help or work. That I can't really argue. Although we haven't done too badly of late!

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{Ed001's Note - to be fair, I am still not convinced Moses is that good, but he has been a definite starter and one of their better players. That is why Assaidi came out here to Dubai, as Moses kept him out of the team.}

Adam, can you refer me to any comments the same or similar to your comment
"He is a limited coach, a shocking manager, a useless judge of a player, and a PR disaster" during ANYTIME last season even during the so called bad start to the season, I await with interest. If you do/can I will hold my hands up and say well done you spotted it much earlier than most.

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Adam, the palyers you quote facts about;
Moses scored 13 goals in a single season for Chelsea before he came to Liverpool. Rodgers actually sent him backwards by forcing him to be less direct. Yes he was playing in a flying Chelsea team

Sahin was running the midfield for Dortmund and Madrid before Rodgers sent him backwards. Why did Madrid let this guy go then if he was running games?

Gus Poyet got more out of Borini than Rodgers can manage. Maybe that down to Borini being intimidated by playing for such a big club and playing for Sunderland lightened the pressure on him allowing him to play better, that is Borinis problem not Rodgers.

He has sent Lambert backwards as well, Lambert has probably gone backwards but maybe that due to him not playing as regularly (as i'm sure was intended by Rodges in the first place) and therefore his confidence has dipped leading to performances not as good as when he was an automatic choice for Southampton.

Also, you state about younger players naturally getting better as they get older but fail to use the same reasonong for the players who have got, let's say less effective as they get older, Agger and Gerrard to name two.
Im not saying you are wrong about all but I think you are overly critical in a lot of instances where Rodgers is concerned.

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{Ed001's Note - I agree in the main with what you say, but the Borini one. If the manager is not able to do his job and lighten the pressure on one of his young players, then that is his fault not the players. If the player simply isn't good enough, then you can't put the blame on the manager, but if a player is just not playing as well as he can, then that has to be partly down to the manager. It is his job to manage that after all.}

I agree with Red Ramsis in that the players you use to prove your point about Rodgers not being a good coach are harsh to pin on him.
Have Yesil's two ligament injuries been caused by Brendan Rodgers?
And it's not fickle to have one viewpoint and change that viewpoint when presented with evidence to do so.
It's called wisdom.
Nothing wrong with that.
If we lost every game between now and the end of the season then based on the evidence provided I would agree with your hypothesis that Rodgers is pants.
Also the coach can only improve a player if that player wants to improve in the first place.
I give the example of Enrique, a player who has not improved 1 jot in my opinion since he has been at the club.
Is that down to coaching or the players well documented attitude?

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I took massive abuse last season for criticising Rodgers use of Gerrard, Skrtel and Mingolet as well as how poorly he utilised and got the best out of his players. This may suprise you but I was the first to question Gerrard in defensive mid on this site whilst all the No. 1 fans called it a stroke of genius.

I can't remember a time since he's been here when people haven't been criticising his press conferences or his transfer dealings. I took so much abuse last year for questioning his managerial and coaching ability though. I'll forgive you for not knowing as I think you're a relatively new poster.

Search under my old name ; YNWA! (Adam) or YNWAdam

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16 Feb 2015 20:49:34
I have to say it is far too easy to put the manager down when things are not going as well as we'd like. Last year, he was brilliant, got adulation and manager of the year. Not exactly mediocrity was it? I think too many people like to jump on the band wagon. BR has made mistakes, but we are better than before he got here.

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16 Feb 2015 21:20:05
Yes Adam you did criticise Rodgers use of Gerrard and other individual criticisms but nothing as all encompassing as
Limited coach
Useless manager
Useless judge of player
PR disaster
As I said earlier , I actually don't disagree on all you say but I think you have gone over the top.

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Best thread I've read on the site so far.i change my opinion all the time over many of the issues discussed due to the information gathered on here. I used to be 100% behind Rodgers but I'm now beginning to see the pitfalls pointed out by eds. Certainly there are areas to improve upon for Rodgers.However if we look where we are now, our form and squad we should be pretty excited about the coming seasons. I'm failing to see the point on previous players? Would you prefer to have Moses, shelvey, aspas, sahin in our team now? For me all clubs need to improve and be looking to do so in every area. If you don't you be had it. Yes changes are needed but drastic ones are not required.
Football is about results and if we continue to get them and win some silverware all this will pale into insignificance

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16 Feb 2015 11:43:26
Hey eds
Might not matter now, but something interesting I picked up. When asked who is the most laziest player amongst your teammates both Borini and Johnson said Suso. Could just be the reason he never made it with us

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{Ed001's Note - they meant he was a couch potato mate, though there were issues with him giving up bothering in training at times when he felt he was wasting his time. That is more of a problem with how he was managed. It is easy to manage people like Henderson, they are desperate to succeed and will run themselves into the ground to do so. It is players like Suso that show how good you are at managing, being able to get them to work is what Mourinho specialises in.}

16 Feb 2015 13:55:27
If he makes it like Pogba, Pique or Matic like they left, I will be sickened

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Agree w/ you, Ed. But shouldn`t a layer show that determination to succeed on his own? Afterall if the player shows signs of not wantin to b great, there`s very little a coach can do most of the time because IMO if you wanna be great, you will be and if you don`t, you won`t. Thoughts?

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{Ed001's Note - there is that, but those players are very few and far between, they usually learn the determination during their life. It only tends to be players from extreme poverty that grow up with that innate determination, as they have to make it to look after their whole family.}

You are VERY correct and this is is prevalent among African, South American as well as players from third world countries. It is also very present among majority of black pro athletes here in the U.S who grow up in poverty hence, have no choice but to be determined or it is back to the crime-ridden neighborhoods where they are trying to get out of to begin with.

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{Ed001's Note - is that the same with the Hispanic community as well? Only everyone I know that is either Hispanic, or just from the States, says they are the true underclass over there, treated worst of all.}

Sorry, I forgot about the Hispanic community who in some quarters are nothing BUT whipping boys for certain Americans who blame them for all the ills of the country. They also have the same disadavntages as the Back people in pro sports as well, IMO. Now, are they worse of than the African-Americans? It depends on where you are and who you believe on that one, Ed.

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16 Feb 2015 10:47:21
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can say we had a bad start to last season. Maybe the performances weren't as spectacular as they were in the second half of the season, but in my 24 years I've never seen us play as well as we did in the run in last year. Obviously we we dipped at the start of this season, we lost one of the top 5 players in the world and then sturridge to injury (over 50 premier league goals). We're getting there now, and I can't understand wanting Rodgers out at this point and going back to square one.

And all the hatred aimed at Sterling is ridiculous. He is probably the best young player in Europe, (which everyone on here agreed with last season) so why shouldn't he be paid as such? He's had to become a senior player for us at the age of 20, and done brilliantly.

I don't understand the culture of slating any player of ours. Surely you all want him to sign and fulfil his potential here, even if he only gives us another 2 seasons followed by £60million in the bank.

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16 Feb 2015 11:29:34
Ok need to get this off.
Everybody goes on about the difficulty of losing Suarez and Sturridge. Other teams also lose players you no I could give two examples from recent pl seasons (Southampton and Manchester United after losing Ronaldo)
Now if you all jog your brains you'll remember that for 4 weeks from the end of December to mid January (Before Sturridge's return) we were playing great out playing arsenal and thrashing Swansea.
So why didn't he revert to the passing style midway through the season. We started playing a pressing system WITHOUT SUAREZ AND STURRIDGE and were still winning. So why could you explain to me did he start with that horrible pass pass system? Why did hewait until hhalf the season was over we were well out of the contention for the title and embarrassingly thrown out of the UCL?

Bottom line is he is a stubborn guy who will always return to his preferred system.

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At this stage last season we were on 50 points. In the current season that would put us 3rd; 9 points off Chelsea, 2 off of City and only 3 ahead of United. That was despite having no European competition and going out of both cups early.

Last season looked good because everyone else was awful too. Had we not gone on a blistering run taking 34 points from the final 39 available we'd have finished 4th at best.

Even if we win our next 13 games this season we will only make 81 points. Arsenal came 4th last season with 79. Basically, to be sure of 4th we need to win every game. Only other option is to hope the others slip up and we are completely unaffected by the FA cup and Europa league.

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I am sorry mate but we should not be in the position we are now with the money spend and what he claims he is.
We were dumped out from the Cl like a laughing stock.
This is not to offend our manager but don't try to make him messiah.

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16 Feb 2015 11:42:26
Small reason
**So why did he revert to the pressing system halfway through the season and not before

Anybody can give a decent answer to this?

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{Ed001's Note - simple, his job was on the line.}

16 Feb 2015 11:44:36
Small correction
**So why did he revert to the pressing system halfway through the season and not before

Anybody can give a decent answer to this?

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16 Feb 2015 11:51:39
So ed why did he have to start with that God awful style at the start?

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{Ed001's Note - because his job was safe and he believes that is the long term future system that will have the most success.}

16 Feb 2015 11:59:29
I'm still astounded as to how someone thinks he should manage us next season. There is every chance he will revert to that system next season again

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16 Feb 2015 12:14:11
I'm not convinced there is anyone better available at the moment. I like Ed001s idea of Brendan under a top DOF; Brendan is a good coach and we play some sweet footie when we get it right but he needs more guidance a la Kenny under Sir Bob

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Reet, that is exactly the reason why i want Brendan gone at the end of the season. I am fed up of this b******t about LFC' season starting in January. Its a shameless excuse that managers come up with to get themselves more time. If your a good and capable manager and have a proven formula for success, u will not have to come up with such lame excuses in the first place. Just use a system that suits the players than imposing something alien on them. Brendan has made that same mistake twice in a row and i do not see him changing his stubborn and clueless ways anytime soon. I want a manager who will dish out credit to others as well as absorb most of the blame when the team is under pressure like Mourinho does. Brendan is the complete opposite of that.

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We were top at Christmas last season.
Must have been a terrible first 3 months.

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{Ed001's Note - how does that match up to the style of play? It is this kind of pointless comparison that is keeping the United fans behind the arrogance of LVG, because they are putting up with the dross served up due to a false league position. We only started to perform well partway through the season when Rodgers changed the style, up until then we were picking up results but on the back of individual brilliance, not good team performances. Why is that so hard to grasp??}

I've said before that Rodgers still has a lot of learning to do, but if Rodgers learnt by his mistakes from the past 2 seasons and started next season with the same style we are playing at the minute, would it not be worth keeping him next season.

I don't think he is god, but at the end of the day if we change manager again in my eyes are we not back to square one.

A new manager will want to bring in another group of players and we start a new transition again.

I know there's been broken promises and he doesn't use the academy kids enough but that's for the owners to limit his spending in the summer and limit him to 1 quality signing.

The performances have improved a lot since the start of the season so it shows he's got it in him.

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{Ed001's Note - so what if we bring in a new head coach whose job is to coach the players given to him? How would that be back to square one?}

Reet, maybe he now sees that as a mistake.
The important thing is he "has" reverted back to a system which works.
No manager is perfect and when I weigh up the positives and negatives with the current manager I see a lot more positives than negatives.
That is why I am behind him. at the moment.

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Ed001. We played nowhere near the dross of LVG's United team last season.
I admit though that United's position in the league is a classic example of league position masking the actual football being played.
I don't remember being that bad though fella:)
Also would it not be fair to suggest that when your star player(Suarez) is out injured or suspended that you might have to try and alter the way you play in some way to maximise what you have available?
That may have had an impact on style of play early on in the season last year, especially when you consider who was on the bench for most of last year (Aspas, Alberto etc)
A lot more options this season than last.

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{Ed001's Note - we weren't that bad, I agree, but we were still poor and playing the pass, pass, pass system. It was remarked how much things changed after Rodgers attended a Bielsa seminar because it was such a sea change to attacking, exciting football. So why have people forgotten it now? It was nothing to do with who was available, the SAS played a large part in picking up the points when we were playing boring footie.}

My stubborness makes it hard to grasp ed001.
"I'm just not havin it" ha ha ha.

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{Ed001's Note - go back and watch the games then. I have.}

Ed

Who is a realistic option as head coach, and also how many new coaches would go to a new team and not expect to have money to spend?

I know people are saying de boer but what experience does he have?

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{Ed001's Note - what experience does Rodgers have? At least de Boer has titles and so is a proven winner.}

People should really stop making excuses and suppositions for BR because it is really getting old and tiring. We know he likes the pass pass style and we also know it has gotten us nowhere for two thirds of the time he`s been here. Fact! The fact that some of us are "not having it" doesn`t make it less a fact because we have empirical evidence to prove that while some only have their suppositions to counter these facts. Also, we know he is stubborn and arrogant and felt his job was safe which is why he was being arrogant in the press UNTIL FSG was going to give him the chop then went back to the high press system (which he doesn`t really favor BUT has to play because he would have goten the sack in Nov/Dec). We cannot afford such ditherings and we need a coach who knows what he is doing ALL the time and not HALF the time. Yes we are getting results and the play is better BUT we always had good results w/ the players we have and the stem they thrive on that BR himself introduced so why did he change to a tried and failed system? Only BR can answer that. Until then, can we just stop making excuses for his unforced blunders and errors because it makes some of us desperate to give him credit for the "upturn" while in reality, we should NEVER have been in this situation were it not for his arrogance and stubborness.

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The missus is back on Wednesday morning fella.
If you think I am spending it watching Enrique give the ball away for the 3 hundreth time at Villa last year then your mistaken!!!!!
I'll spend it on ere instead.
Talking ship!!

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Come on ed I know you want Rodgers out, but De boar managing in a poor league hardly gives him top experience.

I wouldn't say there's much between them experience wise.

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Rodgers took us to within inches of the league last year only to balls it up this year through his own fault, but then persisted with the same mistakes for 6 months and ruined our season until the amount of hate and pressure directed at him made him crumble, panic and throw it all out the window in a blaze of glory. Hence we now have a completely bizarre looking 3421 formation that almost certainly isn't a long term fix and rodgers is praised as genius for only driving us into the ground for 5 months, not 7.

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There is, unfortunately. De Boer was a fine defender in his time with Gerrardesque passing ability. He has won titles at Ajax while BR doesn`t have a sausage YET to his name. He has coached in the CL four seasons in a row while BR has only 6 games so far. Do these facts mean he will win us the PL? NO! Does it mean he is more experienced than BR? Heck YES!

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16 Feb 2015 10:30:17
If L.F.C are skint ings and w.reid would be to good options
Opinions

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16 Feb 2015 14:31:19
Apparently with this new tv deal man utd can take on real Madrid for the best players in the world we also benefit from this tv deal and we r suppose to be broke what I don't understand is haven't utd got debt of a couple a hundred million but they r not broke.yet we need to be careful for ffpr.

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Don`t think it is that cut and dry hence, the reason why the Eds don`t talk money and I don`t blame them.

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16 Feb 2015 07:49:56
Hi Ed1,

Did Borini sign a 4 yr or 5 yr contract with us ?
If its a 4 year contract than I feel Borini will just see out his contract as he is already in his 3rd year. I feel Borini is doing the right thing for himself ( not good for us though), because if he had moved to Sunderland for 11 million pounds then he would be stuck at Sunderland for few years as no team in Italy would pay that amount or higher for him. I agree with you as he is not LFC quality. What are your thoughts on this Ed1 ?

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{Ed001's Note - 5 mate, it ends in 2017. He chose to stay because he wanted to prove himself with us and felt he had done enough at Sunderland to earn a chance this season. As a squad player, I think he is well worth keeping around, as he can cover a number of positions and you can guarantee he will give his all in every game. He is not going to ever be a first choice in the system we play, so it would be better for his career if he found a move.}

I like the lad for the same reason I loved Kuyt, he may not be the greatest but he puts a shift in, I think he is a good player and importantly he can finish(His goal against Villa was required good technique.), he can play across the front line and doesn't throw the toys out of the pram if he isn't first choice.
I agree that for his career he may want to move on, but by no means does that mean I would want him to move on as I think he has something to offer and he should be given a chance to prove himself when opportunity arises.

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The difference is that kuyt was more tactically astute, less of a lightweight and had the uncanny ability to pop up and score big goals. Borini has none of those abilities and therefore is limited to the category of headless chicken for me.

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{Ed001's Note - he popped up and scored big goals for Sunderland though.}

I have no problem with Borini. The only reason I think we should sell him is because he will fetch a decent fee and Ings is a more natural goal scorer and Origi has better potential. Lambert and Borini will almost certainly leave due to a lack of football and they will attract interest.

Balotelli on the other hand will not attract any interest at the fee we will want so might as well stay and be the 4th striker. Sturridge Ings, Origi and Balotelli is a good quartet in my opinion (assuming Balo's resurgence continues and this isn't just a flash in the pan)

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{Ed001's Note - while I know we are interested in Ings, I have to wonder why he would want to join us? Forget his injury problems, or whether he is good enough, or any of the other questions, ask yourself why he would want to join us and play second fiddle to Sturridge?}

2nd fiddle to a player of Sturrdiges quality is tough but with his injury records Ings may just think he will get a decent chance you would have to manage Sturrdige better in future to to last a season

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Sturridge barely averages 25 games a season Ed. Considering we'll be playing 50+ perhaps he is confident of getting games. Or perhaps he thinks he could compliment Sturridge and break into the England team.

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{Ed001's Note - maybe, I would not count my chickens though, he has plenty of options.}

I don't think he is that lightweight, remember the goal that he scored for Sunderland against Man City when he brushed off Kompany?
I think for a back up, he is good, yeah he isn't a first choice like Sturridge but as a squad member he definitely is worth keeping.

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16 Feb 2015 14:43:22
Ed don't you think he's good enough or can be good enough to play alongside Sturridge rather than playing second fiddle?
I have only watched him play once (so I could possibly be wrong), and that was at his recent game against United, maybe I caught him on one of his better days, also they were up against a lacklustre united defence
But what I saw i liked a lot, he was quick, held the ball well and worked his socks off!
I thought he would complement our style of play rather well

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{Ed001's Note - I am not convinced that he is good enough or will stay fit any more than Sturridge.}

16 Feb 2015 07:35:23
Ed01. wow loving you points of view on Stevie. van gaal and Brendan etc. Not been on for a few days sacrilage I know but just spent the last 30minutes reading all your posts. Great job. Obviously you work in football in some degree, I was just wondering who out there at the moment excites you?? Player and mangager wise. Any names we should keep an eye out for. cheers tom

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16 Feb 2015 07:24:56
pjanic, nainggolan from roma and keita baldo from lazio, to liverpool for 75 million pound as on BBC rumours. LoL

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The first two are top class. Not happening in dream.

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15 Feb 2015 23:27:24
Banter please eds
Ed001 this is for you if you're about. I always enjoy reading your seemingly inside scoop on the behind the scenes goings on. I was just wondering what gerrard was like with the other players and in the dressing room. He's obviously been a huge influence over the years and has a lot of pull within the club. On the one hand there's the loyal one club man who's repeatedly put in world class performances but then there's the guy who apparently has always insisted on being the highest paid player (deservedly probably) and it seems that he may have spat his dummy out with his last contract offer. We've all seen what power can do to people so I was hoping you could provide a little insight on the man behind the image if you could. I understand that this may attract abuse so if you don't want to answer that's fine.
Thanks ed

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{Ed001's Note - you are right, it probably will attract abuse, but Gerrard has been a mixed influence on the club. His goals and performances have been top class, but he has been spoilt by the club and indulged, including having a say in transfers, such as our addition of Joe Cole, way above the level any player should have.
As for loyal, he wanted to leave for Chelsea in 2005, he refused to play on the right, he refused to sign contracts that didn't guarantee him the top wage at the club. He does love Liverpool, there is no denying it, but like almost every player his first loyalty is to his wallet.
There are also the way players were forced to either be one of his clique or be a second class citizen at the club. Torres, for instance, became unhappy initially at the way Gerrard and Carra acted towards him because he wanted to be with his family rather than go on the team bonding exercises. It was always Gerrard's way or be the target.
In my opinion he has always had far too much influence, was always indulged far too much, and it fostered the on field issues that sometimes manifested of everyone just giving the ball to him and letting him do it all.}

Wow ed001 that is some freakingly heart breaking info. i thought he was the best team man ever and would take a bullet for the club( in subjective terms). Wow far far from it seems.

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{Ed001's Note - he does love the club, but it is his career rather than just a hobby. That changes your attitude completely to things. You have to sometimes think about what is best for your wallet or you end up with nothing. It is unfair to judge him by the same criteria as the fan in the street.}

Correct ed, he has played his heart out for us every game and has given us moments to remember. as fans that is all that should matter.
as a fan Gerrard is my favorite player and i thought he was the ideal player. but we have to agree success is defined by money and so the player will want it. after all it his livelihood and it is a short term livelihood. one does not play for ever. but still very awkward info there.

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My take as I don't wanna stretch so far.
He is the best player I have seen at the club😊😊😊.
17 years with the club. I don't think my couch would stick not more than 10 years.

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Honestly though, if i was in his boots, with his power, i really can't tell if i'd be any different. power changes people, as proven by history.

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Thank you ed. I have been arguing this point for years now with fellow reds. Great player though he is but he hasn't been the be all and end all that others think. We have had players in the past of a similar ilk but I am an old Shankly man and the philosophy that no one is better than the rest still sticks with me.

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My mate reckons when ever he does not play we play much better.
I am not so sure apart from this season when it is obvious that he is on the wane.
But I will not allow this season to distort what the lad has done for us.
He has been immense.
Is it not natural that when you become a more influential player at a club you have more influence.
Does Vincent Komapny have an influence at City?
Does John Terry have an influence at Chelsea above other players at the club? of course.
It's when it is an undue influence that it becomes a problem.
And maybe this is Gerarrd's first season when his influence is not necessarily positive.
I have noticed how Hendo plays when Stevie G is not in the side and he is one player who benefits massively by the omission of our captain.

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There were games that we played well in w/o him too. Games vs Spurs (5-0), vs City at the Etihad come to mind.

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15 Feb 2015 22:54:22
Hi Eds.
New user here.
Love the site.

How many years has Emre Can signed for?

Do you think Jack Dunn will ever get a go in the first team not just tour friendlie

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{Ed001's Note - off the top of my head, I think Can signed a four year deal. It depends on his progress over the rest of the season, but I have to say it seems unlikely he will get a shot. He might well have missed his chance now due to injuries in the past.}

 
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