Liverpool Banter Archive December 16 2017

16 Dec 2017 23:38:46
Fans talking about fourth. We should be talking about challenging for the league. I've held my tongue through out and will keep it that way until the very end of the season with my views especially regarding klopp.
What I will say though is that we are worlds away from city. "we're only two central defenders and a keeper away". Good luck finding two quality centre backs in Europe and then hoping they settle and perform. Everything's clicked for city and they have the personnel and a fantastic manager.
BTW Van dijk has been a blessing in disguise and hopefully it keeps that way. That being he remains a Southampton player.

17 Dec 2017 01:23:42
No one is challenging for the league it’s only one team. City also have a load more money than us and have had for years. So have Utd and Chelsea do if you think we should all of a sudden be better than last seasons champions and Utd then I think that’s abit delusional tbh. If we can finish top 4 again and have a good run in both cups we’re still in. Get keita in. Keep salah.

Hopefully a cb and then we’ll see. I think top 4 again this season is massive. Shows consistency we’ve been lacking. I think Klopp is building something here. Couple more pieces and we’ll be v competitive next season. Thinking that we should be on this city teams level right now is crazy.

17 Dec 2017 01:27:07
Oh and joe Gomez will be a top centre back I reckon so we need one. Give Karius or Ward the rest of the season if not good enough get a keeper. And another Lucas to protect the back four. And let the boys fly forward.

17 Dec 2017 01:15:41
To be fair Big Al everyone else in the premier league is a worlds aparts from city . as you said everything clicked for them and yes in big part its to do with the money they spend but also big credit due to their manager . the way he transformed the likes of Stones, Sterling and even Delph, we all knew Bruyne was a good player but working with Pep he just gone to another level, some of the passes today were Messi like.

One point though, their defence is n't that great, under pressure they do makes as many mistakes as our back four, and their goal keeper, good distribution of the ball, but is he really any good in being a keeper . I don't know, the ball is hardly at his of the pitch for us to know.
We are not just 2 defenders and away, we are 5/ 6 quality players away.

17 Dec 2017 02:05:18
There defence has improved massively due to having a quality keeper to help out they’re not quite an error waiting to happen as we are.

17 Dec 2017 02:19:37
We were never in the title race as long as the window shut without strengthening the defense. I remember people said before the start, Pep overcoach players and makes it complicated. Right now I don’t even know what does that even mean. They ll spend even more next season courtesy of more income from this season. How could we challenge next season?

17 Dec 2017 02:20:18
Agree, city is having a superb year. It is what it is. We lack consistency but at least our inconsistency this year is ending in a tie and not losing. I get it that for some that is not good enough but it is progress. If you take out mings and lovren we could easily be second. Top four, back to back champion league, a good run in the CL and maybe a trophy in a cup and that will be heck of a year.

17 Dec 2017 08:23:14
Big Al, it is that "we should be challenging for the PL" attitude that is killing our fan base. Wake up and smell the covfefe. LFC are nothing special and have not been in the PL era. That is the brutal truth. The self entitled attitude of some of our fans needs to end as it explains why people lose their marbles each time we draw a game. Also, comparing us to City is just insane and frankly, a false/ dishonest argument judging by the obvious circumstances so I will not even comment on that part.

CL is our target now and YES, so it is for the other top 6 rivals. You can disagree with that ans sinf "We are LFC" and say what we should be doing till hell freezes over. The fact of the matter is that it it what is is and I propose we all get to grips with the current programme.

17 Dec 2017 08:24:46
Harry, so had we bought a good CB, would that have stopped City from winning 17 out of 18 games and would that suddenly stop Moreno, Migs and some others in say, midfield from making mistakes or would that make our striker not fluff their lines as they did earlier and are now doing?

17 Dec 2017 08:40:15
If we don't win anything (FA cup and CL left), don't finish above 4th and end up with fewer points in the league (as we currently have) where is the progress?
Some fans might stand for it but ultimately it will be up to the owners.

{Ed001's Note - the progress is in reaching the knockout stages of the CL, we didn't do that last season.}

17 Dec 2017 09:00:07
Ok well it will be up to the owners to decide if that is progress. I still think Klopp is going to struggle to "win at least 1 title" in his first 4 years.

{Ed001's Note - of course he is, there is not a manager alive that would do anything but struggle to win the league with us right now. I don't get why you are so down? Yes it was the derby, but it was one game, you are beginning to be as depressing as Harry. At the end of the day it could have been like Hodgson, telling us after we got beat that a draw would have been a good result against them. Klopp instead was furious at not getting a win. What more do you want? He is human and he made the mistake of leaving out one player, as no one will ever convince me that Coutinho deserves a place in the side for a game like the derby while he is strolling around the pitch half-arsed. We don't even know that was a mistake, for all we know we could have ended up losing with a different team out.

I miss the old Ron. Come back please!}

17 Dec 2017 09:15:58
lol 'you are beginning to be as depressing as Harry' he does have a point Ron mate, come on snap out of it fella lol maybe he got possessed? by Harry!

17 Dec 2017 09:20:28
You know when you think you're on the same page as someone and the manager really understands the club and the fans. That's how I thought of Klopp. I thought he would never sacrifice the derby, it would never enter my mind as a possibility. I thought he understood the feeling of a derby to the home fans.
But then I saw it with my own eyes and I still can't believe it happened. I can't reason it, I can't rationalise it. It doesn't make any sense to me other than he's not on the same page and he doesn't understand the fans - which worries me.

{Ed001's Note - I don't see it that way, I see it as a manager taking too much from the lessons of last season. He saw so many players suffering with fitness and form that he is now listening to every word the sports scientists are telling him, rather than taking a gamble with fitness for the biggest matches. Hopefully he will learn there is a balance, that sometimes you have to ignore the advice you are given.}

17 Dec 2017 12:05:22
Ron the team he put out was easily good enough to win that game! It’s not like the team was guilty of lying down and getting out fought and out played. We dominted and bar some silly decisions at both ends of the pitch we would have won comfortably. So you’re in a huff for dominating a game and being a bit unlucky just to come away with a draw?

17 Dec 2017 13:38:09
No Swish I'm in a huff because the manager didn't take the derby seriously enough to play his best team. If they had won comfortably it might be different, but they didn't and when the manager realised they weren't going to win he threw his best players on.
5-0 up after 50 mins vs Moscow, why did Coutinho need to play 90 mins? Why did Firmino need 72 mins? We only needed a point in that game. Was he saving them to play WBA, a team that hasn't won for 16 games?

16 Dec 2017 20:17:31
Ed007 I remember when we got beat by city and Celtic by PSG I tried to compare City to PSG and you shot me down saying PSG were the best in Europe. Feeling a little silly now eh?

{Ed007's Note - I have no idea what you're talking about and yes I do think PSG are the best team in Europe this year and it'll take a couple of great performances for anyone to stop them winning the CL. Until they meet or the CL is decided you're post doesn't really make much sense.}

16 Dec 2017 20:57:33
I'm not getting involved with the argument, but I can't see PSG winning the CL at all.

16 Dec 2017 21:14:51
PSG are indeed a great team they have arguably the best midfield in Europe as well as attack, it's all debatable but I also just cannot see them winning the CL. Their biggest test is Real Madrid, if they beat them then I'd change my opinion and would put them as potential winners. That game will be like a CL final, one would've imagined both PSG and RM in the final.

{Ed007's Note - I agree with that, it'll take someone like Real Madrid to beat them and even though they're not playing at their best this season they know how do win the CL. I wouldn't discount Bayern Munich stopping them if PSG get through Madrid and they meet again.}

16 Dec 2017 22:03:46
Yeah true, Bayern have that trait of upsetting teams pretty easily at times but I personally don't think they'd get past PSG to be honest with that team, any team will find it difficult to. The only advantage id say a team such as Real has over them is experience in the CL but PSG will be confident and to me do have the better team. I really see a City v PSG final if PSG get past Real, now that'd be an interesting one, I think PSG would do it though.

16 Dec 2017 23:31:26
Personally I don’t think either Real Madrid nor PSG nor Manchester City will will the Champions League this season. I think we’re all going to be surprised when we see the real winner this season.

16 Dec 2017 23:32:49
PSG is loaded and they will be there or thereabouts this season if they can do RM, which will be no easy task regardless oif their form domestically. They were poor in the last two seasons YET it did not stop them from winning the past two CL trophies back to back. It will be a great tie.

17 Dec 2017 02:07:59
For the CL I would say us, city or Munich.

16 Dec 2017 20:02:04
Ron you have always been the eternal optimist. What has turned you? Yeah we're not goung to win the league but its not even January yet. Is everything ok man?

16 Dec 2017 20:18:13
Brexit has done him.

16 Dec 2017 20:27:57
Couple of wickets tomorrow morning might help 😁

I'll snap out of it. Still can't shake that team selection last week. It literally felt like a kick in the cojones.

16 Dec 2017 22:40:22
Derby result and team was little annoying and certainly disappoing, but after tomorrow’s game that will be 2 matches ago, off course we remember results and if we had our way we would win every game, yes Klopp made mistakes that derby and when consider there performance it has a hard one too take but got to move forward not half way through season yet and got cup competitions still up for grabs with little hope! Onwards and upwards and support the redmen my mate.

16 Dec 2017 23:38:09
Don't see any mistakes he made, Wombart. People can be disappointed and that is fine BUT it does not mean mistakes were made in the lineup as he played the best team he had based on fitness and availability. That is the take away here. You can't play your best team all the time and even if it is a derby, if Cou and Firmino are carrying knocks and Salah (the most played LFC player along with Bobbie) needs a rest at some point which they were, Klopp has to do what is best for the team as one derby does not a season decide. People really need to get over Everton as for me personally, we have bigger fish to fry than them.

17 Dec 2017 02:11:07
I still can’t understand the issues with the team, we would have won’t barring an idiotic error from lovren (again) . SO omitting that we would have had a win and rested some importantly legs. We’re coning to the busy period.

17 Dec 2017 08:47:06
JB and BRover - for me, and a lot of other fans perhaps not using this media, the home derby is the biggest game of the season. Obviously that can change if we get to cup finals etc but otherwise there are no "bigger fish to fry".

What are these bigger fish BR? West Brom?
All players carry knocks all season, it's a well known fact. If they are fit enough to come on when we concede, they were fit enough to start.

We've nearly won every game, we would have been ahead of City. We nearly won the league with Rodgers.
"Nearly" doesn't mean jack at the end of the season.

16 Dec 2017 19:16:09
Seeing a bit of discussion about pep and thought id throw my two pence in. For me mourinho and pep are better managers than klopp. They go out and buy a replacement where there is a weakness, they may have the money to do so but they do priortise where they are weak. Klopp however in my opinion is a better coach, he works with what he has (sometimes blinkered i admit) but he tends to priortise moulding players with the right attributes to his vision rather than just going and buying a player that slots right in.

Pep is doing a good job at city, yes he has plenty of money but he still needs to get his team winning.

I am still thorughly behind klopp and always knew it would be a rocky ride to get us back to challenging. Something i believe he will get us doing but is only going to get tougher with the way that city team is at the minute.

16 Dec 2017 19:30:13
Pep does a pretty good job of coaching too. He is getting the best out of Sterling and Sane consistently. KDB is next level. 52 points after 18 games is incredible in modern day football.

Klopp tried to sign players he needed if reports are true (VVD and Keita) so he knew we needed them but didn't get them over the line. definitely costing us. Not sure it was about wrong priorities more about lack of professionalism in transfer window. Hopefully that lesson has been learnt and we can strengthen in Jan and get top 4 again.

16 Dec 2017 20:01:56
Jordz, unfortunately he illegally approached VVD so he wrecked that one all on his own.

16 Dec 2017 23:47:51
Jordz, I agree with you overall however, Klopp has changed a bit. Yes, he believes in coaching and moulding players as that is how he started his career at Mainz taking over from his mentor Wolfgang Frank, an Arrigo Sacchi disciple. Frank taught him that you can beat any team if you are meticulous in your training, tactics and preparations cos to him at times, Having your best 11 is better than having 11 of the best players and clearly, that ethos has served him well with the success he has had.

Now the diff. is that he now has more spending power compared to his Bundesliga days so he now has no prob bidding or willing to drop 150m for VVD and Keita if he feels they will improve his team. Pep and Mou do the same thing as well as we see with the mony both have spent. The diff. is that Klopp has his way of recruiting as he will no longer settle for stop gaps so he will rather coach the team up to try to make up for the player he is missing rather than sign one he does not believe in. I'd rather that than just buying for buying sake, something both Pep and Mou do.

17 Dec 2017 02:15:13
People love to slate pep saying ‘he manages only big team’ ‘he has to spend money’ look at him right now compared to mourinho, ones breaking records, top of the league by 14 points playing incredible football. The their takes cheap shots in interviews, is anti football. They’re both successful but there is o my one I’d want. There is a reason all the big clubs want pep, because he’s quality. Messi credtited a lot of his success to pep. Comparing managers is hard tho, I’m sure there is probably some random non league or manager of a Latvian team who works wonders but nobody knows. Slcertain mabagers for certain jobs and roles.

17 Dec 2017 04:04:49
Irrespective of comparisons to Mourinho Pep has had trunk loads of cash and world class players at his disposal in every management job he has been in. Now I'm not saying he is a bad manager, as you cannot really judge the quality of a manager when they have had half a billion to spend, but that he has always had everything gift-wrapped for him. I mean I think a lot of managers in world football would be able win things with the players Guardiola has had in their team you know? It is not 'genius' to get players that good winning in my opinion.

17 Dec 2017 08:51:23
Perhaps not Seano, but he's not just winning, he's breaking records in his second season. He broke records at Barcelona. You want someone who doesn't win anything for 8, 9years or a record breaking manager? Someone who in 2 seasons can take you from mediocrity to the best of a generation.

{Ed001's Note - mediocrity? City were not mediocre though. They were the most expensively assembled team in football history before Pep arrived and spent half a billion on the team. They had been winning leagues regularly in recent years. How is that mediocrity?}

17 Dec 2017 09:54:08
They were mediocre in the champions league, usually finishing 3rd or 4th in their group.
They were very poor the season Leicester won the league. Not just in terms of results but they were playing poor football.

16 Dec 2017 17:55:20
So I'd still like us to go for Van Dijk.

Realise that pretty much everyone on here thinks he's terrible now but I still feel he can be good for us. Got this feeling he is going to end up at Man City and be a powerhouse for them with a bit of good coaching.

Yes he may have disappeared this season and its clear his head is elsewhere but he has a lot of the attributes to be very good. He has the pace to chase back and help us with our high line as well giving us a bit more oomph when defending set pieces. There's no doubt that he's certainly a much more imposing figure than any of our CBs.

Wonder whether anyone else thinks he Could still be a good option. Or is De Vrij
our one and only saviour now!?

{Ed002's Note - he is damaged goods because of the illegal and totally unprofessional behaviour of the Liverpool manager.}

16 Dec 2017 18:00:17
He's got a lot of good attributes but ed002 makes an excellent point. He's damaged goods, I worry about his mentality after what happened in the summer.
He could be great at City but then he won't really have much to do in that team.

16 Dec 2017 18:32:59
Is a shame. We should offer Southampton some players and give some extra cash and say we're really really sorry again, maybe let them beat us next time we play?

Think he will just end up at City now and make them even better!

16 Dec 2017 18:43:36
I agree he will end up elsewhere.
If he came to Anfield now he would be under far too much pressure to succeed. I feel it would be a poor signing now.

We will have to look elsewhere, maybe we can just sign some more midfielders and some kids who will never play.

16 Dec 2017 20:25:17
Get a 🍻 and chill out Ron your still down pal c'mon game on tomorrow different opposition onwards and upwards 👍👍.

16 Dec 2017 20:13:44
I think you need to get laid Ron. Its the only thing that will get the real Ron back, i hope. You are giving Harry a run for his money atm.

16 Dec 2017 22:36:33
I’m pretty sure Harry hacked Ron’s account, either that or there’s been an alien abduction!

16 Dec 2017 23:57:07
I want my Ron back as the one we have now is an imposter.

Seriously tho, I would stay well away from VVD. He is not only damaged goods BUT he is not interested in playing for Saints anymore and he has been average if not poor all season. We should look elsewhere for a CB and there are decent if not great ones out there. Not sold on De Vrij tho as he is injury prone and not that quick.

16 Dec 2017 16:18:07
I hope we win tomorrow.

16 Dec 2017 17:05:16
We must win tomorrow.

16 Dec 2017 17:05:45
Hope so too Mc, but we lost their after winning, so it won't be an easy game, this could be yet another draw, we seem to have gone off the boil,
but a win would lift moral, and up a place or two .

16 Dec 2017 17:40:58
Can't get up for these games now this season, roll on August. We're rotating players whilst the premier league disappears off into the distance.
We've got the cup and the champions league left this season.

Hope he rests Karius. If he plays and drops another clanger at Bournemouth it could end him.

16 Dec 2017 19:24:15
Speaking of rotation how much rotation have previous league winners like Chelsea Leicester Utd when they dominated carry out?

16 Dec 2017 15:32:57
A post for Ron,
pick your head up Kiddo and put your Keague tinted glasses back on.
I know you're upset about the derby and I agree with your point about never remembering us resting players for the derby. But think about it with a slightly different perspective, have we eer had a squad capable of rotation at this stage of a season. Enough of the doom and gloom.

16 Dec 2017 16:02:57
"squad capable of rotation" I think we should wait until early January before we make the call. Draws against Everton and West Brom in the last two games isn't exactly a confidence booster.

16 Dec 2017 16:03:57
We need you back firing on all four cylinders Ron.

16 Dec 2017 16:05:04
The bit that annoys me is if we played a full strength squad in the Derby, I'm sure our rested team could also bore us into a nil nil with west brom. In fact, I think they would be more likely to get a result. In a derby, everyone wants to try their best and win the game. Sometimes, in games like west broms, it's the players fighting for a chance that do best!

16 Dec 2017 16:35:33
Firmane as you say, football is not an exact science and if both lineups in both games has not proven that then, nothing will. Our rotated lineup played a lot better vs Everton than our best team played vs WBA. Nuff said!

As for Ron, put your big boy pants on and get back on that optimistic horse of yours.

16 Dec 2017 17:03:04
We have won less games than Burnley. There is little to be happy about. We need a improve a lot in all areas. Tomorrow is a massive massive game we can't aford to keep falling more points behind.

It has been a really poor first half of the season in the league. Rotation has not worked because very few players are performing at a high level. Our best 3 players this season Salah, Moreno, Gomez all didn't play last season. Where are the players that got us in the top 4? It is a must win game tomorrow, we are now 7th. I suppose for Back and BRover that is plenty good enough.

16 Dec 2017 17:11:50
you can look at this any way you want, Klopp messed up his subs V Chelsea, we drew, Klopp made 6 changes V Everton, we drew, Klopp made another 6 changes V West Brom, we drew .

16 Dec 2017 23:08:47
It doesn’t look right now but I think we have to wait till Feb to see if this rotation thing is a mistake or has helped I’m the long term. I expect us to smash Bournemouth tomorrow.

16 Dec 2017 12:45:15
Quick point on the cohesion between the goalkeeper and the defenders.
Karius is looking a little better than Mignolet in terms of talking to his defenders, organising them and taking command of a situation.
It's important to remember though that cohesion in this case works both ways.

Karius needs to know exactly what his defenders are capable of, exactly how they will react to different situations and can base his own game around that.
Equally, the defenders need to be comfortable knowing what Karius will deal with easily.
Right now, Karius is probably on edge knowing any one of his defenders could drop him in it at any moment.
Until we get this understanding really working on both sides, we're always going to leak silly goals. It's also why we can't change too many players at once at the back. It could also be why Karius is now being blooded in.

16 Dec 2017 13:02:43
Karius is being geared up and prepared for next season. He looks 100% more assured than Mignolet on the pitch.

16 Dec 2017 13:34:17
Karius should he playing from today if you want to achieve top 4 this season!

16 Dec 2017 13:46:27
Have any of you actually watched Karius? He is a disaster waiting to happen.

16 Dec 2017 15:04:55
KBM have you ever seen Mignolet play? He is a disaster that happens continuously.

16 Dec 2017 15:11:47
Klavy, yes we have. You must have been watching Joe Hart.

16 Dec 2017 15:12:28
Harry, who is "you" in your post or are you an optional LFC fan?

16 Dec 2017 02:01:18
When will Harry Wilson play in the first team again?

{Ed0333's Note - I don’t know mate my crystal ball stopped working last week.

16 Dec 2017 05:48:21
I’m pretty sure with Ox and Solanke looking for game time in the forwards, and Woodburn too, Wilson will need to go on loan to prove himself before getting a shot.

And with Ojo playing well at Fulham and Brewster looking special, competition in the forwards will be extremely tough. He’ll need to really shine in the championship.

16 Dec 2017 09:46:46
Never, he is not good enough. He will end up the bottom half of the championship or more likely league 1 or 2. Check out how Kent etc are doing.

16 Dec 2017 10:12:14
That's not fair. He's scored enough goals to have earned a shot, you never know if they'll step it up unless you play them.

16 Dec 2017 10:24:15
The fact that he hasn't been given any kind of chance so far is a concern. It suggests Klopp has doubts about him for whatever reason.

If I was him I'd be desperate for a loan.

16 Dec 2017 11:34:03
I think this is sad in this day and age that you are writing a 19 year old off!

they are doing the right thing, he is just enjoying his football at the moment. in January he will probably go out on loan. even if he does 2 seasons on loan comes back at 22.

22! that's so early in his career, he could be in our first team he could be anywhere he has the raw talent just needs to apply himself.

16 Dec 2017 15:07:29
I feel he is so far down the pecking order it would be remarkable if he got a chance, barring a disastrous run of injuries.

16 Dec 2017 15:13:21
Southern, you did not get the memo? You are useless as a young player if you don't perform in the first 5 games you play.