Liverpool Banter Archive May 15 2016

15 May 2016 22:02:52
Just seen Paulo's reply to my comment on Torres earlier. Torres did score 22 goals in one season for Chelsea. 2012-13 season. 22 goals and 11 assists in 64 apps (approx 4500 minutes) across all competitions. Your comment made me doubt myself but I looked it up and I was right.

Hence my point that Rafa got the best out of Torres and I hope that if we sign Gotze, Klopp can work the same magic. Some players just seem to click with certain managers. Kevin Nolan and Big Sam are another great example. Harry Redknapp and Niko Krancjar. I'm sure there are lots of other examples.

I'm not keen on Gotze's attitude, but he did shine under Klopp. Same as Torres always has under Rafa. So fingers crossed that if it does happen, Klopps influence makes it a success.

15 May 2016 23:57:24
Can't doubt the lads talent, same for Torres for that matter.
I know your a lover of stats Adam, have a look at gotze's goals per games ratio for Dortmund and bayern, everyone's saying his forms dropped since Dortmund, but his stats are better, explain ;) lol
For me gotze is a bit of a luxury signing, not really needed and we would have to ship out a few players if we where to bring him in, but it's a signing I would get excited about, defo.

16 May 2016 01:08:41
Gotze we mean Klopp means business and sends out a massage to the other teams.

16 May 2016 02:45:02
I agree with MK Scouser that Gotze could well be a good signing for us. Klopp knows the player, and the man, and he certainly wouldn't be bringing him in because he is chummy with him. He must believe that he can help Gotze come out of this rut he has been in lately, and make him get the level he can play at.

It's a risk, but one that I would be comfortable with LFC taking.

16 May 2016 02:45:46
The only message we need to send to other teams is "is that the best you can do? Really? "

16 May 2016 05:04:34
AG, hasn't Ed002 said consistently that we haven't even contacted BM yet everyone is talking as if Gotze is a done deal and speculating on the reasons why Klopp is ' bringing him in ' when that isn't even the case yet. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. There are far more pressing issues needing to be addressed in the squad in the summer than bringing in yet another AM player that isn't needed.

16 May 2016 07:07:18
Ed002 has also said that we are interested and Gotze could be a Liverpool player next season. Nobody is assuming it's a done deal. We're just speculating and discussing a rumour. Because this is Liverpool Rumours . co . uk perhaps?

16 May 2016 08:06:57
Brisbane, I believe Ed002 has mentioned that there is interest in the player.

Additionally, as chummy as Klopp is to Gotze, he is being asked by Bayern to explain what sort of conversation he has had with Klopp. I don't think Klopp was talking about the Liverpool weather with Gotze.

16 May 2016 09:26:20
To anyone who says we have too many number tens he played on either wing under klopp as kagawa was the ten. Usually it was left like coutinho has been with blackhowski on the right.

16 May 2016 09:28:00
AG, if I remember Ed's words correctly, it was along the lines of if we are interested in Gotze, then we know what we need to do, which I assume means actually contact BM, which it appears as we have yet to do so. Which is why I mentioned putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

16 May 2016 10:19:38
Think you need to check his words again Bisbane.

"He may well end up at Liverpool, or at any of the other sides I have mentioned. "

You are correct in that Ed002 has said we need to contact Bayern, but he has also made it pretty clear that Liverpool are a potential destination for Gotze.

16 May 2016 09:28:14
To be fair now state how many were down to rafa. You sais he scored 22 under rafa not in 64 games. Wasn't rafa only there half a season.

Your choice of wording made it seem like in about 30 games Torres gor 22 goals and I dint remember that either.

Will hold my hands up if it was all down to rafa.

16 May 2016 09:36:03
Torres under rafa scored 14 goals from the 21st November till the end of the season under rafa.

2 in champions league.
6 in Europa league
4 in premier league
2 in club world cup

If you throw stats are tell all not just flashy numbers.

16 May 2016 13:47:54
Paulo now you are just being pedantic mate. Fact is Torres improved under Rafa. 14 goals under Rafa is more than he scored for the club In a whole season under any other manager, so all you've really done is help prove my point buddy.

Forget thevstats completely if you want. Torres visually played better under Rafa.

He got 22 goals in the season Rafa was there and over half of them goals came under Benitez. Case closed.

16 May 2016 15:36:30
Its not case closed though. 4 goals in the prem from November to may?

Your point was that Torres gor the manager he loved and was class under him. So if gotze gets klopp then that could happen aswel.

I'm just trying to pont out that a player is a player and its not always the manager. Even when they get the one they love it still doesn't make them what they use to be. As for torres stats those goals came spread across 8 comps. He was just scoring fir having so many games rather than back to his clinical best.

22 games and 18 goals 09/ 10
33 games and 24 goals 08/ 09

Might be a tear earlier on both but his seasons for us were proper form and that's his amount in the league.

15 May 2016 21:58:36
Fellow reds, do you think Liverpool will do there transfer work nice and early this summer or will it be another last day buying . i think klopp will get it all done before pre season starts . imo.

15 May 2016 23:58:50
I'm hoping all our targets will be chomping at the bit to want to work with Klopp, I don't think Rodgers had the same appeal.

16 May 2016 02:11:55
The hard part will be moving on the players we don't want to keep.

16 May 2016 02:48:04
I am sure all teams would like the transfers done early so they can work over the summer with the team and the manager, but it doesn't go that way often.

We already have Matip and Grujic coming in and perhaps Zielinski as well.

15 May 2016 19:18:09
Made up for 3 players today:

Great for HENDO and INGS to get on the pitch.
Huge congratulations to Jordan Ibe. What a goal, brilliant run and BOOM - get in.
I think next season will be a big one for him, I'm sure Kloppo will keep him. He's got a great attitude and Klopp will get the best out of him.

15 May 2016 23:16:03
With Ibe, I recall he did extra training with Dalglish last preseason. I would have agreed about him having a great attitude up until a few months ago, but it did look like something happened and he seemed to be dropped then really bit part.

Is there anything to suggest he did have an attitude issue during this season? I'd like to think not and it's purely a form issue, which at his age is understandable. Just odd Klopp was all over him, you could hear him at the end of matches calling Ibe Ibe and hugging him, then it just wasn't the case anymore.

15 May 2016 17:49:24
Any truth in the rumours that Klopp has identified Loris Karius as his top goalkeeping target?

{Ed002's Note - I think you will find "top" is a subjective term.}

15 May 2016 17:56:11
What will of happened is Klopp has said a few targets, none of which fsg will purchase because they don't want to spend. So it will likely be 4th or 5th choice. Fsg will wonder in a year or 2 why it's not going right again?

{Ed002's Note - I feel sorry for the owners of the club. Maybe they can get some decent fans.}

15 May 2016 18:06:44
Ed002 - get where you're coming from but god I hope this Hem guy is a one off.
I do wonder at times why both owners and eds even bother with replies like this one 😅.

15 May 2016 18:08:23
It truly is amazing that anyone could say FSG don't spend. I just don't get it.

15 May 2016 18:09:26
That is an embarrassing comment Hem b. Surely, it you have seen the amount of money FSG has given the managers to spend.

15 May 2016 18:23:25
Embarassing comment Hem. To say that FSG haven't spent is a ridiculous comment.

15 May 2016 19:10:51
Maybe the owners can fund some new fans. They have spent plenty.

Baz.

15 May 2016 19:15:38
FSG have allowed too much to be spent IMO.

16 May 2016 00:38:38
Hem, seriously, WTF?!?!?!

15 May 2016 15:45:18
What a nice touch of class from west brom with the empty red seats.

16 May 2016 00:40:23
Absolutely agree. Most fans and most clubs know that, but for the grace of god, this could have happened to them. 27 unacceptable, disgusting years of lies and cowardice.

Its gestures like today that make me realise that we are all fans at the end of the day, no matter what our colours.

15 May 2016 14:01:12
Hendo on bench so does that mean he gets 20 mins today and we get him back for Wednesday? Hope so.

Also can't wait to see Ings out there.

15 May 2016 16:59:14
Neither are ready for the final IMO. We should go with fully fit players.

15 May 2016 13:18:23
Good afternoon eds and reds. A quick question for you eds. We kno Grujic trained with the squad yesterday and we know that he only returned to Red Star on loan so with their season over could in theory he make an appearance today? I know its not going to happen I was just interested if it was possible. Thanks ed, it may be a stupid question 😁.

{Ed002's Note - No.}

15 May 2016 13:30:57
Again I know it won't happen, but what's the difference between canos playing and grujic? Is it because grujic isn't in the premier league squad and canos is a youth player.

{Ed002's Note - Canos' loan has ended and his contrcat has reverted to Liverpool. Grujic is not available until his loan ends - and that is another 6 weeks away.}

15 May 2016 13:58:50
Thanks for the quick reply and here's to a convincing win today and a good end to our PL season.

15 May 2016 14:01:03
Little or no difference but seems odd the loan is for another 6 weeks when Red Stars season has now ended. I suppose that's just what was negotiated and agreed.

{Ed002's Note - There is a vast difference. And not odd, negotiated or agreed at all - these are the rules.}

15 May 2016 12:27:06
The Gotze issue is a divisive one.

On the one hand, players of his supposed quality and experience rarely come along for that kind of money. An opportunity to add such quality to our team doesn't come along very often, and if anybody can get him back up to fitness and form, it is klopp. From that perspective, it could be a coup of luis suarez proportions. His achievements in the game already pretty much outweigh anybody in our current squad.

On the other hand, he is rumoured to be unfit, lazy, has a poor attitude, has lost his magic and has run his mouth in the media unproffessionally. It could be argued the fans are clamouring for a player that is simply good on fifa but in reality, has lost his hunger and isn't that good anymore. Plus, we don't need any more injury prone players. The fans have also clamoured for players such as balotelli, who was a gamble; and that didn't work out too well. They have also cried when we have 'missed out' on players in similar situations in recent times, such as sneijder, fabregas and mata, and in the long run, them being sold by their old clubs has been justified and bullets have been dodged. It could also be argued we don't have that money to throw around on players in positions we do not particularly need, especially with our bloated squad and other areas that definately need improving.

Overall i think it comes down to one thing and that is jurgen klopp. Not only is he much more astute than brendan and the transfer committee at signings, he also knows the player better than anybody else. If he believes he still has the quality and correct attitude to succeed, i doubt he will pass up the chance to sign him. If not, he will not, and i won't be crying - if jurgen thinks he will just be another balotelli, or has an insight into his personality others do not, then i trust him and would much rather respect his opinion because it will most likely be the right one. If he does sign him, and that prospect does excite me, we have one of the most prestigious and exciting talents in world football on our hands, but that only matters if he has the correct attitude and ability to succeed still. Given the questionable management of guardiola at munich, i do hope his struggles there will have just been a matter of the move not working out for various reasons. But either way, i am sure the correct decision will be made, and i will not be crying if we do not sign him.

We all know our squad is only a few players away from being a seriously strong outfit so let's support the players we do have before our final game of the season and respect how far we have come, before we start salivating over players who may not even deserve our attention.

Seriously looking forward to wednesday, win or lose, is a remarkable achievement given where we were 8 months ago.

15 May 2016 12:58:56
I like Gotze as a player. He has a lot to offer our team.

I think Klopp can have the same effect with Gotze that Rafa had with Torres.

Torres was really struggling at Chelsea yet under Rafa at Chelsea he scored like 22 goals in all competitions.

My problem with Gotze is that he is a toerag of Suarez/ Balotelli proportions off the pitch. He needs to grow up if we sign him. He might look 15 but that doesn't give him the right to behave like it.

15 May 2016 13:07:08
Suarez was never a toerag off the pitch, in fact quite the opposite. It's just on it that he has his 'moments'.

15 May 2016 14:07:45
You missed his constant interviews with foreign radio stations trying to Engineer a move away then? Or his agent being a knob on his behalf? Or his constant contract disputes with the club?

People have short memories. He was a tit on and off the pitch. Don't kid yourself.

15 May 2016 15:46:28
Pretty sure those stats are well of there for Torres fella. Like I think hw had a few good games and rhay was itm

Torres best game was against man united under avb, really thought he was back. Apart from his tremendous miss he was unplayable that day.

Not that anyone xarws lmao.

15 May 2016 11:25:38
In the year he left Dortmund, debate raged over whether Götze or Neymar would have won more Balon d'Ors come the end of their respective careers. Götze would be the most talented player in our squad and would improve our first team. Period.
I commented it further down the page, the guys scored a brilliant goal to win a World Cup final, and at just 21 or 22 years old! Messi hasn't, even the messiah that is Luis Suarez hasn't- albeit he plays for a much poorer national side.
Beckenbauer said Götze was the most talented young German footballer he'd ever seen, and I don't think any of us have the authority to question him.
Sure his career has stagnated but if it hadn't we'd have no chance of signing him.
He wants the man that helped him mature as a man and a footballer- Jurgen Klopp- who will take him back and better than his former glories. We will win the league in the next 3 seasons if we get Mario Götze, and he will win player of the season.

15 May 2016 11:31:34
100% agree. You don't get many chances to sign players of his quality for the price being quoted. Snap him up!

15 May 2016 11:47:29
Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar haven't scored in a World Cup final but I don't understand how that affects your point of view. Gotze has been a good player in the past but his form has dropped in recent seasons. I very much doubt he would be the difference between us winning or not winning the league. Personally, I'd hope Klopp can find the next Mario Gotze rather than us hope he can recapture his past level of football.

15 May 2016 11:52:49
I've not seen him do anything since Dortmund.
and that isn't a dig, genuinely haven't seen anything from him. Injured or Benched.

15 May 2016 12:06:02
Plenty of players haven't lived up to their potential. A move for him would be a gamble, maybe he'd be amazing, maybe he'd be another Ballotelli. If he's available at a reasonable price I'm OK with a move but if we miss out on him I won't be disappointed.

15 May 2016 12:09:04
It depends on his attitude IMO.
If he comes in on a sensible wage ready to work his nuts off to impress Klopp and re-establish himself then it could be a great piece of business.
If he comes in on mega wages with the "I'm the most talented German player ever" attitude and thinking he's already impressed Klopp once before then he's no use to us.
Klopp will assess that and if he thinks he's up for it then great.

15 May 2016 12:12:04
What about the texts between him and JK? Wouldn't that look a bit dodgy if we did sign him?

15 May 2016 12:19:56
He was never really given a chance under Pep. He is a quality player. form is temporary, class is permanent and all that.

Fingers crossed!

15 May 2016 12:21:09
There's been a lot of talk on here regarding gotze, for me I don't really care who we sign as for the first time I feel I can trust a manager in the market. So let's see how it plays out, but personally I don't see us getting him as I don't see where he fits in the team. He may be purchased though if couts gets snapped up by barca.

15 May 2016 12:35:00
I think one thing that keeps getting missed is how well Goetze did under Klopp before. Klopp know him knows his attitude, his strengths and weaknesses. If his attitude that keeps getting questioned by people who have never met him, I would rather listen to someone who has spent a lot of time with him. Surely Klopp knows who he wants and if he will fit in. If Klopp wants to sign him i will be very happy.

15 May 2016 14:40:42
People forget coutinho wasnt ripping up trees before we signed him and look how that turned out. Not saying we should or should not sign him but over the years we have seen some players just don't fit certain clubs and have gone on to be brilliant at another. Again not saying that will happen if he came here but i wouldn't be so quick to write him off.

{Ed002's Note - Maybe get Rodgers back to work with him like he did with Coutinho?}

15 May 2016 15:39:20
Not a bad idea ed, he is an excellent coach. 😉.

15 May 2016 17:16:35
Tbf a player who can't get in Bayern munichs squad is by no means a write off. The problem is, will he sulk if he misses games for his next club.

15 May 2016 09:50:47
I don't recall Karius being anything special when we played Mainz. Is my memory fading?

Is Horn not better for a reported same price tag?

Anyone watch German football during the season to suggest who is the better keeper or are neither what we need? I don't think potential is what we require at the moment in that position.

15 May 2016 10:20:36
When did we play Mainz?

15 May 2016 12:12:42
He's thinking of the crazy augsburg keeper.

15 May 2016 13:45:37
Clearly Max hasn't seen Karius play. He is very good just like Horn.

15 May 2016 10:26:51
I don't think the club would buy any regular first choice keeper. A cover for Migs would come in to replace Ward and Bodgan. If he proves himself to Klopp he might fight Migs for the starting spot.

15 May 2016 23:28:01
Yeah I was thinking of the Augsburg keeper, we were linked to him too right?

15 May 2016 07:48:08
Lots of posts on Gotze and how he would be a great buy if he can recapture his previous form. It got me thinking about other players and I'm stumped in trying to think of someone who was hitting the peaks, then slumped for a couple of years before regaining his previous form. Anyone?

15 May 2016 08:08:14
Torres seems to be doing so. Hope he can continue it for the season beyond.

{Ed001's Note - he has had a few good weeks, in the run up to his contract expiring....}

15 May 2016 08:16:26
Unsure about length of time maybe a season, season and a half, but here goes,
Ben Arfa
Lovren
Berkamp
Sahin
Forlan
Sturridge

That's off the top of my head, I'm also thinking Jean Pierre Papin career dived in Munich but returned to form back in France, nowhere near his original heights. There aren't many and I'm not replying to be an a hole to your post, just to show a few players have been able to turn it around with a move. Maybe Gotze will too, it's about him and Klopp which gives me hope and winning world cups, scoring in the final shows pressure can be handled.

They'll be good players at Citeh who Guardola just doesn't fancy and won't want that'll have a bad time if they don't move on, but then show their undoubted form elsewhere in a season or two. but not many as that squad is old.

15 May 2016 08:22:37
Fair points, he's also a lot younger than when most of those guys lost form, his seems mainly due to injury. I don't know the severity of those injuries if they will affect him long term or if it's just a case of getting fit and getting picked!

15 May 2016 08:33:07
His form has slipped because he's not fit. He's not fit because of injuries and lack of playing time. I watched him yesterday and his finishes were class. Old saying form temporary class permenant. It's not a couple of yrs slump. The last 3 seasons attacking midfielder Bayern 15 goals 15 goals and 6 this season where he has only played 8 full games and 21 games in total.
Klopp will get the lad fitter if he signs him and this will improve his overall form. Manager tactics alo play apart of a players form.

15 May 2016 09:49:08
Not convinced another AM is needed, I would rather we look at the GK, LB and a wide attacking player first. Gotze shouldn't be at the top of the shopping list, there are more pressing areas that need sorting out first.

15 May 2016 11:17:54
You could argue Coutinho- looked a class talent but wasn't getting a chance due to injuries and selection at Inter I believe.
Obviously Götze is better known but you can't use the fact he scored a worldie to win the World Cup final at just 21 against him, can you?

15 May 2016 13:51:53
We have Coutinho and Firmino who are better than Gotze right now so I personally don't want him here because to me, he's a luxury that we can do without especially if Lallana will be kept. As Brisbane said, we have issues at GK and LB that need addressing ASAP so all these Gotze talk for me, is unrealistic BUT if Klopp gets him, I will trust his judgement even tho, I will disagree with it.

15 May 2016 09:04:25
To be fair to torres he will have a fat pay check waiting in America or china regardless of form. I just think he feels loved again, under simeone. Mr number 1 again, fought off Martinez and vietto, not the create but big money buys.

Cant help but always love the lad.

15 May 2016 10:29:38
We should be looking at a Pacy RW similar to Mahrez or Texiera or even Salah. Gotze is another Coutinho / Firmino technically good wouldn't help us in our ongoing issues.
Liverpool lacks pace and Good set piece ability.

14 May 2016 22:03:12
Eds do you think we need Gotze, or rather can he improve us as a club?

{Ed001's Note - I don't think we need him, if he can stay fit he would improve us as a team, but not enough I see any point to his signing.}

15 May 2016 07:46:43
I think a 3 of Couts Firmino and Gotze playing behind a striker would definitely improve us. While Lalana has worked hard he lacks that quality final pass or finish that Gotze would offer. At the price reported it's a no brainer.
My transfer policy would be only buy if he's better than what we have. He has a better end product than Lalana an would improve our goal tally. I Imagine him playing under Klopp again would get the best out of him.

15 May 2016 08:36:32
The question is whether he has better pressing and overall defensive contribution than Lallana? Do not underestimate what he brings to the team, the lad has been fighting for his place most impressively this year.
It is my impression that Gotze has lost a lot of his Dortmund work-rate, and will need time to build it up. I would think that IF he comes here, Gotze may as well be used in a squad rotation, behind Lallana in the pecking order, especially against tough opposition.
That said, if he gets his fitness levels and form back during his adaptational year, he should easily displace Adam in his second year - I would expect that about this time Lallana will be falling behind, and ready to move to pastures new.

15 May 2016 08:55:30
Obviously he will need to get fitter but he his better in front of goal and he has proven he can play outstanding under Klopps pressing style.
I am not having a go at Adam his work rate as kept him in the team, but goals and assist win you games. In this department Gotze has a proven record. Klopp would love to have them both to rotate. Why not?

15 May 2016 09:07:27
Sure, I can get behind rotation, especially if we manage to obtain european football next year. I just hope the rest of the fanbase is patient enough with Gotze, he will need the time.
Couts, Firmino, Lallana, Gotze, and either Marcovic or a new winger would be a nice setup, though I am not sure where Milner fits in this equation - though considering his recent improvement, he might take the winger spot for next year. Who knows?
I am really hopeful for Volland or Rafa Silva coming here, but this squad has proven it has more potential than people believed.
In the end, we should just trust in the Klopp, and enjoy the ride.

15 May 2016 11:56:25
Gotze is not a no.1 need, no, but if he was knocking on our door, we'd be silly not to bring him in and give him a cup of tea and a place to stay. Lallana doesn't strike fear into opposition defences and managers. Gotze does. Rivals aren't going to heavily mark Lallana out of fear of letting him on the loose, but they will to Gotze, and then that creates space for Firmino and Coutinho to do their magic, who are heavily marked themselves. Rivals then won't really know who to mark. It's a similar situation at Barca. Who the hell are you supposed to mark? Messi, Suarez or Neymar?

Gotze also has final ball and incisive instinct, something Lallana lacks. This was epitomised against Chelsea when he was given a great through ball in open space towards goal, but instead of going with it, he stopped it, dragged it back and did a Cruyff turn for absolutely no reason, and allowed Chelsea's defence to completely re-settle. It's like he's been reading criticisms on here, and then did it just to troll us. He's not a bad player, but we can do a lot better if given the opportunity.

15 May 2016 09:08:22
Still think Adam can pull a vardy/ mahrez out his ass next year.

Very capable of 15g/ 10a minimum.

Everything's there except that selfishness he had a soton.