Liverpool Banter Archive September 14 2016

 

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14 Sep 2016 22:35:12
I'm not hendo biggest fan and I think he should not be the captain but on Friday night he will show me and the rest wrong. He will put Costa in his place.

Believable4 Unbelievable9

14 Sep 2016 23:36:28
Regardless of what you think about Hendo (I personally think he's a very good player), you not rating him as a player doesn't mean he's a bad captain. The best captain for the job doesn't necessarily have to be the best player.


15 Sep 2016 00:00:17
Yes, I also think Henderson is likely to get an early red card.


15 Sep 2016 00:25:28
What makes you think that Fanobip, the last time Henderson got sent off was towards the end of our title challenge vs Man City in the 2013/ 14 season.


15 Sep 2016 02:14:55
Reis, The boy has absolutely nothing to prove to you and whoever the "rest" are that you are referring to. He is a very good player and LFC captain and Klopp has not signified any intention in stripping him of the arm band. So regardless of what you and the "rest" think and if he plays well on Friday or not, he will still be captain and you'll still have to get over it.


15 Sep 2016 08:01:12
Redden, no need to fret. Klopp is just scheming and waiting for the right moment to hand the captain's armband to either Matip, Can or Klavan.


15 Sep 2016 09:00:13
Lee. you don't half spout tosh you know. very surprise how you can read klopp mind to know he intends changing captain at the right moment.


15 Sep 2016 09:37:44
Fanobip probably wants Hendo sent off so he can come on here and have another whinge whilst slating another player -- as he usually does.


15 Sep 2016 09:52:24
I'm saying basically hendo won't stand for Costa bullying. And show some people wrong.


15 Sep 2016 10:56:57
Hamilton Red

Well said. It's about time some fans just give Hendo a break.
Hendo is our Captain, and a very good one at that. Get behind the lad instead of constantly whining about him.
He had a lot of injury issues last season but now looks back to full fitness, which can only be a good thing for Liverpool.
Let's hear his name being called out by the fans on Friday!


15 Sep 2016 13:13:01
Lee,
Do you honestly think for a second that Klavan is going to be our captain ahead of Henderson? Come on son, that's at least a yellow card! He is a back up player and it'll take a number of injuries before he gets a solid run in the team which you suggest he should captain.


15 Sep 2016 13:16:26
I still can't understand the Henderson debate . Now i know if we all thought the same thoughts the world would be a boring place but I'm sure there is proof that when Henderson plays, Liverpool play better . I personally think he's quality and a very good captain.


15 Sep 2016 14:26:57
Lee. Again! Give it a rest will you. Every post is utter nonsense. I'm glad it's not just me who's noticed it too, editor 1 plus a few other posters think the same. I'd love to know a bit about you, age, what team you support etc to get a clearer picture of the clown that's posting garbage!


14 Sep 2016 19:22:51
Forgive the new thread for the old subject but i just wanted to say thanks to 01 and the posters for contributing their thoughts on King Kenny.

I know as Liverpool supporters, we often get accused of living in the past but if men of that ilk comprise our past, then we should be damn well proud.

Believable14 Unbelievable8

14 Sep 2016 20:13:15
clywed glywed! Or hear hear.


14 Sep 2016 22:58:22
Spot on.


14 Sep 2016 23:17:12
I was feeling the same way when I read the discussion.


14 Sep 2016 19:19:48
Hi Ed1 hope all is well with you. I just wanted to bring up an observation regarding Lucas, Klavan and Wijnaldum.

I'd like to add the caveat that this is not an attempt to try to catch you out - just a genuine inquiry - as I can only guess at some of the abuse the Ed's receive.

Anyway in replies to posts about Wijnaldum you said you'd give him time before passing judgement on him, and yet with Klavan you said he will struggle against pace and that Lucas is better.

My point therefore is that isn't it a bit early to make that judgement about Klavan? especially since Lucas who without pace has acquitted himself well at CB.

I'm not saying you won't be proved right, but considering factors such as a new country and the speed of football here then it might just be that he needs some time to adjust to the pace of the game in England.

Admittedly I've only seen a bit of Klavan, but I thought he looked pretty decent from what I saw, and if Lucas with little pace can do well then I see no reason that Klavan can't either.

I look forward to your reply and thanks in advance.

Believable7 Unbelievable8

14 Sep 2016 20:25:05
Sammy hyypia has no pace.


14 Sep 2016 20:26:31
Sam Hyypia had less pace than my nan, but he was a wonderful rock of our defence. If you can read the game as well as Sam. but not many can.


14 Sep 2016 20:47:06
Speed of thought can be just as critical as speed in certain situations. However if you are trying to hold a high line, there is pretty much nothing a guy like Hyypia, Klavan or Mertesacker can do against a lobbed ball in behind for a guy like Vardy!

Hyypia was fortunate he played in deep defensive line. In the right system he was undoubtedly world class in my opinion.


{Ed001's Note - Klavan is not Hyypia though, and has not got the positional sense needed to make up for his pace. You could see he wanted to move out against a pacey attacker, every time he should have been dropping off. When he should have pushed up he was dropping off. It is clear he is a decent back up, but no more than that.

Oh and the reason why I say that sooner is because this is something that ties in with what scouts have told me about him. So I took a good look, the first time he played against pace it showed, sadly.}

14 Sep 2016 21:26:05
I agree with you Ed, you are preaching to the converted ;) as I said, Hyypia in the right system was world class. Klavan as you say is just a good back up to have.

Matip and Lovren are clearly the first choice pair, although I'd have Sakho and Matip personally!


{Ed001's Note - agreed, but Sakho has to buck up his ideas.}

14 Sep 2016 21:34:23
Also add in that a lack of pace is easily identifiable regardless of how many games, Klavan isn't going to up his pace over 10 games. Gini on the other hand could very well adapt his play and get used to the position in 10 games.


14 Sep 2016 21:59:42
Klaven lack of pace was apparent to all vs Burnley, it is a matter of fast or not, hence why you can tell he is slow before 10 games without any inaccuracy, Klaven isn't going to magically get much faster in 8 games. Where as Gini being good enough needs longer to be established as it incorporates a lot more factors other than just speed, it is also based upon opinion which people need longer to form, about 10 games.


14 Sep 2016 22:07:41
Lack of pace is quickly identifiable, but the point was you can't judge immediately how good Klavan is despite that ManahawkinRed which is why I cited Lucas as an example.

Plus thanks for the reply Ed1 as I'm clear now why you've judged him more quickly. And I also agree in an ideal world Matip and Sakho would be first choice too.


{Ed001's Note - welcome mate. I wouldn't normally judge on just a couple of games, especially coming to a new country, so I can understand why you asked. I probably should have made it plain at the time thinking back.}

14 Sep 2016 23:36:37
Sakho is unconventional and defends in a way that is exciting to watch and generally distributes a good forward pass.
But he is also heart attack material to coach, manage and partner at cb.

Thats why the fans love him.

Sahko and Matip for me.


15 Sep 2016 02:20:39
Loren is just as reckless at time as Skrtel was yet Sahko is the one who gets grief for his styles of defending. He is simply the best one on one defender we have with very good pace and the best passing CB we have at the club. If he can sort himself out, he and Matip should be starting.


15 Sep 2016 09:34:20
Sahko is finished, it's blatently obvious Klopp wants rid. Gomez will be back next month, although will take him a while to get back to full match fitness. Matip and Gomez could be the long term solution there, and a regular back five is well overdue.


14 Sep 2016 19:10:42
hi all. just a shot in the dark. i have been reading this site for years on end. wouldn't dream of asking normally, but been delayed near London for a few days with work and would do anything to get in the away end on Friday night. sourced two tickets but they looking for 250 each and separated in the home area. two of us reds traveling for work. if anything is avaliable a lot cheaper give us a shout. we never have any problem getting home game tickets alway travel from Ireland. we not been to an away game before. but no way getting suckered for 250 each.

Believable2 Unbelievable8

14 Sep 2016 23:02:18
Can't help but hope you get in. It will be an awesome atmosphere with the away fans šŸ˜Ž.


15 Sep 2016 14:35:01
cheers Ron. no luck yet.


14 Sep 2016 17:26:45
Hi Reds and eds new to this site just posting to say hello. This is a real cool site! . One little question who exactly are you/ those eds and how do they have supposed inside knowledge?
Cheers!

Believable0 Unbelievable7

{Ed001's Note - there is no point in us answering this really. Only time will tell you if you can believe what we say or not. Whether you go back through and see what has been said in the past or wait and see in the future, there is nothing we can say that could (or should for that matter) persuade you of our knowledge. As for how, it is, like most things in this world, a case of who you know.}

14 Sep 2016 18:45:43
Or you could do what Waro does and rub his bald patch with your index finger counterclockwise 11 times jump up and down on your right leg 8 times, with your tongue sticking out trying to touch your nose and then.

Poof

A magic dragon appears and tells all.


14 Sep 2016 19:36:37
They commit blood sacrifices every night, I should know I was one of them.


15 Sep 2016 10:26:52
I'm starting to think ED02 is the Red Woman from Game Of Thrones.


14 Sep 2016 17:24:38
I saw an article in which El-Hadji Diouf blaming Steven Gerrard for Mario Balotelli's failure at Liverpool. That excuse is up there with 'the dog ate my homework' and we all know Balotelli failed because he couldn't be arsed. I treat El-Hadji Diouf like any other piece of rubbish I would see on the road, either ignore it and keep on walking, or avoid it and keep on walking.

Believable8 Unbelievable6

{Ed001's Note - El-Hadji Diouf is what happens when the homework works its way out the other end of the dog. He is a thoroughly dislikeable piece of excrement.}

14 Sep 2016 18:12:07
Ed01 on Form šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚.


14 Sep 2016 23:39:53
One of gerard houlliers many pitiful signings.
If I tried to list them all I'd be here all night.


15 Sep 2016 02:22:36
Ed01, now that was awful as in, Awfully Awesome. Bravo, sir!


14 Sep 2016 14:04:49
Just saw Morenos new haricut! I thought it couldn't get worse, but it has!

Believable6 Unbelievable10

14 Sep 2016 23:04:32
If it's good enough for Messi, it's good enough for Alberto.
I actually think it's an improvement.


14 Sep 2016 23:38:52
The problem is that Messi's hair could be attributed to a mid-life crisis after the Copa America final loss where as Moreno has no such excuse at this very point.


15 Sep 2016 02:24:32
Unfortunately Ron, it seems his hair is the only thing Moreno can improve. t.


14 Sep 2016 13:56:40
hi Ed, I posted it on a wrong page, I wanted to say every time I see Martin Atkinson officiating Liverpool match he screws it as is the case this coming Friday where he will be in charge of the match, hope he proves me wrong.

Believable11 Unbelievable5

14 Sep 2016 23:40:01
No amount of bad refereeing can stop our vibrant attack, best in the league due to style and individual ability.


14 Sep 2016 12:41:10
I was hoping to get Ed001's opinion if he is around.

i wanted to ask what you made of King Kennys second stint in charge?

the last trophy we won was under Kenny and the last league title. in my opinion depsite an 8th place finish he should have never been sacked. i don't know ho much of it was to do with suarez or if you are willing to comment on that side.

at the time i seem to rember us playing some fantastic football. wasnt comoli responsible for the transfers carroll, adam et al. when i speak to people about this period, they speak as though it was a resounding failure, something i think is wide of the mark. and plus everyone loved seeing him on the touchline again!

its important i say that i am extremely happy we have got Klopp. and think top 4 is nailed on!

a response would be appreciated.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

{Ed001's Note - considering what came after, I don't think anyone could say we improved by getting rid of him, at least in the short term. I can understand why FSG made their decision, but I can't see his time as a failure and Kenny deserved better. More to the point, he deserved better from the fans and they did not deserve to have the King in charge. The modern day fan (not all but most) do not appreciate what that man did for us as a fanbase during the dark days of Hillsborough. He won us a trophy in his second stint. He deserved more time. Like I said at the time, he is too good for the modern day fan and that is why I didn't want him to have the job.}

14 Sep 2016 13:19:45
Hey Ed, hope you are ok. Just re your comments about the fans not deserving Kenny, Do you think he got a lot of stick off the fans? certainly not from anyone around my generation (started watching as a kid when Keegan made his debut) and I wasn't aware of too much stick altogether to be honest.


{Ed001's Note - there was a lot of people calling for him to go. I couldn't understand how anyone could call for Dalglish to go, no matter what. That is one man who deserved to pick his own time to leave, even if he had won nothing. Hell I would not have been able to bring myself to call for his head if he had led us to successive relegations out of the league system! Having said that, there is no way he would have stayed unless he was taking us forward, he loves the club more than anything. He would never have outstayed his welcome.}

14 Sep 2016 13:46:41
King kenny has been out of the game for too long to make a great job of it in the long run. He was brought in to steady the ship and a longer term solution should have been brought in at the end of that season. He was also hugely let down by the failings of damien comolli and co, which made it impossible for him to succeed the season after, but we will never know how much say he realistically had in it.

He wasnt great but he wasnt terrible, he came in to steady the ship in our darkest our like the legend he is, the people who failed were the club in the transfer market and for asking too much of a man who would never say no to helping us if we needed him.


14 Sep 2016 13:30:11
I with you ed . Arsenal have that problem now don't there. Wenger deserve to go when he feels right. Under Fsg he's the only one who has won something. I'm 22 years old but I seen and been told by my dad about King kenny and he deserves respect.


{Ed001's Note - he is up there with Shanks and Paisley as genuine legends.}

14 Sep 2016 13:59:10
Dalglish made a front 3 of Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt all in their 30's look dangerous! He even got Torres and Meireles firing before they walked out.

I also believe that under him and largely helped by Clarke, we had our best defensive record in the last 7 or 8 years with Johnson, Skrtel, Carragher and Enrique!

The guy was sacked far too soon. I think ultimately he was judged on things out of his control. The Suarez saga which has be blamed primarily on Suarez and then the PR department. But also his transfer business which also is partially Comolli's fault.

Of his transfers Henderson is now captain and Suarez was our best player since Fowler. Bellamy was a very good short term signing as well. Downing, Adam, Coates, Carroll and Enrique let Kenny down unfortunately.

I would have loved Kenny to stay on though. I reckon we'd have won more than Rodgers haul of zero trophies, put it that way.

Hopefully Jurgen will bring us silverware. I'd honestly take a domestic cup/ Europa league win and a top half finish over just finishing in the top 4 every year. Trophies are what excite me. If we don't finish first in the league, I don't care where we come to be quite honest. Fabregas and Van Persie left Arsenal because they realised how embarrassing it is to compete to be the 4th best.

Thankfully, I think Klopp is a rare breed. I get the impression that he just wants to win every game as much as any other and then he'll just see where he ends up from it. The only way to be. Treat every game like a cup final and sure enough, you'll win trophies.


14 Sep 2016 15:39:19
Couldn't agree more with you MK very well put.


14 Sep 2016 14:44:50
despite not being old enough to have enjoyed kenny when he was playing or to have seen him manage during his 1st stint. knowing the ehings he has done for this club and its fans and for the families of the 96 i was shocked to hear people were unhappy with him in charge. he also had to deal with torres leaving along with others. suarez was still adjusting. he didn't have control over transfers and still took us to two cup finals and finished 8th. what did we do in Klopps first season very similair? i agree with the modern day fan argument, very short memories and very little patience.


14 Sep 2016 14:51:03
Spot on ed001, never agreed more with comments posted on this site. We'll said fellašŸ‘.


{Ed001's Note - I remember we had similar convos about this at the time Waro. It is so difficult to think about how such a genuine legend was treated by the club and fans he has done so much for. You only have to look at the footage (I am sure there must be some online) of him at every single funeral he could possibly attend of the 96 and see his face get progressively more lined and strained due to it to see that he deserves special treatment. There are very few people that do, in my opinion, not even my favourite ever player (Fowler) does, but Kenny Dalglish deserves it. More than anyone, if you ask me.}

14 Sep 2016 16:24:00
People forget what Kenny took over from Hodgson and where he got us to that season.
It was a remarkable 20ish games in the league.


{Ed001's Note - correct.}

14 Sep 2016 17:08:12
I need to caveat this with the fact that if it were my choice I wouldn't have got rid of him but let's not pretend 11/ 12 was something it's not. We had two excellent cup runs but we had our worst league campaign in 50 years. If anyone else was in charge they would have been chased out of Liverpool. It says a lot about Liverpool's love of Kenny that it was even considered he stay on.


14 Sep 2016 17:34:35
You're right Ed, KK is a true legend and hero for what he did post-Hillsborough, before you even mention what he was like as a player. Couldn't believe the news when I heard he got sacked, and as the ed points out what came after could not be described as an improvement.


{Ed001's Note - a close friend of the family worked at Anfield all her life, May was not in the offices or anything, she worked as a cleaner there for as long as anyone could remember. In fact I remember one piece on TV for a cup final build up showing her knocking over the silverware as she was trying to polish it for the cameras! The Dalglish's not just knew her by name etc, they used to take her to their house regularly for Sunday dinner after her husband died. That was the way Kenny was, he never saw her as just a cleaner, like so many would nowadays, she was as important a part of the Liverpool team as the players to him, even after she retired. That to me is something that says a lot about him, he valued everyone at the club and still does.}

14 Sep 2016 17:56:35
As a "modern" fan, I didn't want Kenny to leave at the time. It's pretty inescapable that the league results weren't good, but we must've set some sort of modern record for hitting the post and spurning easy chances under Kenny.

We had one completely ridiculous game (I think against WBA) where we peppered their goal with shots for 70 minutes (and they weren't from 20 yards either, they were good chances) somehow failed to score, and then they ran up the other end and scored 2 from 2 shots in quick succession. It didn't happen to that extreme every game, obviously, and we did have a few poor performances, but it happened quite a lot that we'd have far more chances that the opposition and fail to pick up three points.

The quality of the attacking play in terms of movement, passing, tempo and interchange was as good as we've had in 20 years, right up to the point where it came to sticking in the net where we'd contrive to make a hash of it. We easily would've been top 4 with a Torres or a Sturridge in that side. Or an even an Owen.

My solution to that would've been buy a striker who didn't land himself with a 8 match suspension or wasn't a pony-tailed drunkard rather than offloading the manager who'd only had 16 months in charge, but alas.

There were also non-footballing issues of course.


14 Sep 2016 18:27:34
Yes Ed, Kenny always put the club first, that's why he walked after the derby game, he felt he wasn't functioning properly for the club and made what must have been a hard decision to go, but as I say at the time he felt it had to be done, shame he didn't just have a break with a view to coming back but hey that's all if my auntie had balls stuff now isn't it.
I lost my nephew at Hillsborough, unfortunately his funeral wasnt one Kenny attended but I do remember he did attend a very high number of funerals which must have took a heavy toll, everyone knows how a single funeral can affect you never mind numerous funerals in quick succession.
Nothing but the utmost respect for the man never mind him being my No1 football hero of all time.


{Ed001's Note - that was what most people within the club wanted him to do, but a certain man in charge would not countenance a break for the manager, so that choice was never available to Kenny unfortunately.
Sorry about your nephew mate. It wasn't just attending funerals that he did though, he also organise the players to ensure at least one would be at every single one of the funerals to represent the club. That must have been just as hard on him as well, having to pick and choose which they went to and organise it after what had happened.
I agree with you, he is the ultimate football hero for me too.}

14 Sep 2016 18:47:59
Kenny is one a dying breed. He lived and breathed the club. Even so far as picking up youngsters like Fowler to drive him to training.

His leaving in 91 started the decline we've never really recovered from.

Had the club let Ronnie Moran and Roy Evans take over for the rest of that season with Kenny coming back after a long break I'm convinced we'd have stayed in front of United for a lot longer.


{Ed001's Note - agreed.}

14 Sep 2016 18:52:27
To be fair Suarez was a brilliant signing from a financial and tactical POV. Poor attitude from a professional season but his work rate and ability can't be questioned. If we could have kept Torres that winter and showed impetus to build our program a bit better. and then brought in Coutinho and bedded in Sterling it would have been a world class frontline (for a few seasons anyway) . Then again we probably wouldn't have got Sturridge from Chelsea and he was integral in our 2nd place finish a few years ago.


14 Sep 2016 19:18:31
King kenny is exactly that a King. Total legend as a player manager and most of all man . Not sure if I can post references to other sites but the portrait of an icon piece written about him is a good read . Total legend should be knighted for what he did post hillsborough . Not that he cares a jot for personal accolades.


14 Sep 2016 20:54:54
I'm guessing it was David Moores who you allude to Ed?


{Ed001's Note - I think so, I remember it as him, but I couldn't be 100% sure he was the man in charge at the time. I didn't want to name him in case it was just before he took over. I was just a kid then, so I am really stretching back in my memory.}

14 Sep 2016 23:09:16
Wasn't it Noel White who effectively blocked Kenny's plan to take a sabbatical?


14 Sep 2016 23:47:02
I'd have kenny back tomorrow.

No ifs or buts simply the best.

Fsg made a bad mistake .
The way they made him fly out to America to get the sack was horrible.


15 Sep 2016 09:37:38
Whoever it was made a bad shout, Istanbul apart we could have hardly done any worse since. Makes you think how it would have been if Peter Robinson was still at the helm and Kenny did return after a short break, guess we'll never know.


14 Sep 2016 12:35:53
Everyone is talking abiut Couthino and if he should start Friday, some are even saying replace him over Sturridge, well I have always been a fan of both players. I have been recently critical of Sturridge granted but for what I consider good reason, but here's the thing.

Why has nobody mentioned starting Origi instead of Sturridge and Firmino and Mane either side of him?

To me makes a lit more sense than starting with Couthino and dropping Sturridge.

This to me is the more likely scenario but personally I would go with Origi over Sturridge as Chelsea will be very hard to break down and a bit of strenght and raw determination could be the key factor to breaking them down around the 18 yd box.

Just my opinion but seems different to what everyone else has been talking about.

Believable0 Unbelievable10

{Ed001's Note - it is more people are talking about what they think Klopp will do.}

14 Sep 2016 13:14:23
Well yes

But I think you get what I'm saying.


{Ed001's Note - I do mate, I would like to see Origi get a chance, but I think we should stick with the team that dominated Leicester.}

14 Sep 2016 15:14:56
Spot on, Ed. Stick with what we know has worked from the start of the last game, and then make changes if need be.


14 Sep 2016 16:10:50
Stick with Lucas ed, even if Lovern is fit? Personally i would but it will be interesting to see what Klopp does.


{Ed001's Note - I would too. Keep it completely as it. Lucas did make a big mistake, but the rest of his game was flawless, it was just unlucky his mistake cost us. Every player makes at least one mistake a game, misplaced passes, a heavy touch, whatever, but they usually go unremarked because they rarely cost anything.}

14 Sep 2016 16:11:55
Apologies. I see you have already answered that.


{Ed001's Note - no worries.}

14 Sep 2016 19:35:51
The team that beat Leicester deserve to start against Chelsea. (With the exception of Lucas who was brought in as injury cover, out of position) .

Coutinho is obviously a great player who will start the majority of games this year, but it will send others the wrong message if somebody is dropped for him.

Sturridge had a great game. Great movement off the ball, involved in a couple of goals and most importantly, his bursts of pace seemed to be back. He should 100% start again.


14 Sep 2016 10:29:55
Hi Eds and fellow Reds,

I had the pleasure of being at the Fulham vs Burton game last night where the young 16 year old left back, Sessengon, scored a last minute equaliser. He seriously impressed me through out the game. Are any big teams interested in him? I am a Fulham season ticket holder (live 5 mins from the stadium) and let me tell you this kid is set for big things. Please oh please Mr Klopp sign him up for us. Especially when we have no real left back talent in the U21 side either.

Red Sandman.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

{Ed001's Note - he is being watched by lots of clubs mate, I think they said they had 18 scouts at one game to watch him, if I remember correctly.}

14 Sep 2016 12:50:38
North or south of the river?


14 Sep 2016 09:54:12
Hi Eds
Do you think there might be any change to the set up of the team personnel this Friday against chelski ie Karius and Lovern or do u expect the team that played extremely well last Saturday to remain unchanged cheers.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I expect Klopp to mostly stick with the same team, probably Lovren in for Lucas and Couts in for Sturridge though.}

14 Sep 2016 15:19:15
I would n`t change Couts in for Studge tho, Ed. I would just let the same team bar Lucas, start the game and let`s see how it goes. Also, Studge had a very good game, full of running assisting and had two chances to score. Not starting him would be a blow for his confidence, IMO. We`ve all wanted Studge to work harder for the team and he did just that vs LC. Changing him or benching him on Friday would erase part of that. Couts will definitely come on, no question but I just feel we should stick to this team as it is now until further notice even tho Wiji or Lallana should be the ones to make way for Couts. What do you think, ED?


{Ed001's Note - I don't want to see any changes unless there are injuries. You change a winning team only when there are injuries or it won because the manager made changes to rescue a win during the previous match. Stick with the team.}

14 Sep 2016 08:38:42
Interesting article by Henry Jackson about the viability of operating Couts in the midfield 3.Your thoughts Reds?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

14 Sep 2016 09:16:52
This was done under Rodgers, it's nothing new. It worked well. Unfortunatly we have so many midfielders it's unlikely to happen. Besides that couts would need to learn how to pass not shoot all the time haha.


14 Sep 2016 12:33:21
I have a strong feeling courts will play a major part in the outcome this weekend, anyway that said I'd love Liverpool to really push on now and a special mention to the fans that keep believing.


14 Sep 2016 08:29:45
That conversation about migs passing to Lucas under pressure reminded me of that time in the Europa league when sakho got knock on the head, just before he went off, mignolet gave the ball straight to him under pressure and he fell over. The guy doesn't have a football brain.

Believable2 Unbelievable4

14 Sep 2016 08:43:23
There are three things to take under consideration.
1. A goal keeper having options to pass the ball
2. A GK observation on the opposition danger
3. CB's who are strong enough not get bullied by the attacker.

Henderson need to drop deep to receive the first ball from Migs when there is a press, else any keeper would only pass to thier CB's. ( Alonso does this during his time, dropping deep to receive it from Reina. )

Lucas for all his good work got bullied over so easily by the attacker. Un acceptable under this level

GK passing to a CB who is under press from the opposition.

We got wrong on all fronts.


{Ed001's Note - there was no bullying, it was a bad piece of control, nothing to do with bullying or strength. We are not playing the same system nor are we playing the same opposition as Rafa faced, so comparing it is ridiculous.}

14 Sep 2016 12:02:02
Disagree there Ed. Gerrard dropped deep under BR for the play from the back system currently we are playing. Hendo has to drop deep for Migs to have an option. Until he will only pass to the nearest CB.


{Ed001's Note - what is the relevance to that and what Rafa did? You are making no sense. We do not play the same way Bodgers had us playing, we are not passing for passing's sake and standing off opponents. There is no need for Hendo to drop back at all. He should be further up. If there is no pass then Migs should kick it longer.}

14 Sep 2016 16:05:26
Sweet, I don`t know the point you are trying to make and whatever system Rafa/ BR played has got to do with what happened in the last game. You made two good points in the beginning of your post and then I got lost. You`re right that Mingo should have observed what was going on around him and had he done that, he would have made that mistake. Lucas got bullied? By whom? Okazaki that never touched him? he may have paniced but bullied? Then Hendo should have dropped deeper. To where, the six yard box so Vardy can press him there and then lose the ball? Help me out here Sweet because you`re not making sense.


14 Sep 2016 01:04:31
Ed001, if I may, what's your take on the whole Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes debate? Me being a red I obviously cannot see past Gerrard being the superior player but as you seem to be more unbiased than myself, I wondered how you felt.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - the debate should be Gerrard or Scholes as Lampard was nowhere near as good, but Lampard, to be fair to him, made the absolute most of the talent he had, unlike the other two. Which is why he put himself into the conversation. For me though, he just is not as good as the other two.

To be honest it is really down to personal preference as they are such different players. Scholes didn't want the personal glory, hence his willingness to move further back throughout his career, away from the limelight of the goalscorer. Gerrard thrived on the glory. For me it is like choosing between apples and oranges. Both were great players in different ways.}

14 Sep 2016 09:20:23
You got to hold your hands up to fat frank, 20 goals a year from midfiekd for 5 years is so impressive.

Got to agree though, other aspects of his game were miles off scholes and Gerard.


14 Sep 2016 01:04:31
Ed001, if I may, what's your take on the whole Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes debate? Me being a red I obviously cannot see past Gerrard being the superior player but as you seem to be more unbiased than myself, I wondered how you felt.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

{Ed007's Note - Squidgy -like a big teddy bear.}

14 Sep 2016 01:26:41
Gerrard all the way, he single-handedly carried average teams on his back to success for years, while Scholes and Giggs had the luxury of being in very good teams, Scholes legendary teams. The argument I like to put forward is that Lampard and Scholes were masters of one trade, Scholes, playmaking, Lampard, goalscoring, while Gerrard was a master of many trades, passing, finishing, athleticism, penalty taking, power, crossing, technique to name a few, neither did he ever shirk a tackle, his only weakness of note being defensive positioning due to wanting to attack. He is up there with Souness as being one of the most complete players ever. However all 3 are legends of game.


{Ed001's Note - Gerrard is not complete at all, he couldn't defend, he would not track back. How can that be complete if one half of the game you can't do? Scholes could do a lot more than play make, he was a goalscorer, one of the best, but they did not need those particular talents of his in the teams he was playing for, so he was used deeper.}

14 Sep 2016 07:50:24
Scholes is one of the finest passer of the ball. He was better than Xavi in his prime, in fact the best CM around.
Gerrard is the most complete midfielder. Both cannot thrive in a team without a DM. Gerrard was more influential than Scholes for their respective team.


14 Sep 2016 08:56:55
I was unaware of Scholes' goalscoring prowess, I'll do more research on it. I still feel Gerrard, despite his defensive shortcomings was one of the most complete midfielders ever, because he really could do the rest of it, pass, cross, last minute penalty, finishing, dribble even when he was younger, you name it. While Scholes may receive praise for being selfless to move back, Gerrard should also receive praise for taking so much pressure upon his back and not surcoming to it, it takes a special type of steel and self-confidence to be able to do such a thing, the likes of Maradona had it too. Both Gerrard and Scholes were poor defensively though and Gerrard was more complete than scholes.


{Ed001's Note - Gerrard was not complete, he could have been complete, but he didn't work at the defensive side of his game until in his 30s. So yes, he could do it all, he just refused to bother, which is what annoys me about him. There should be no comparison to him and any other Liverpool player, there should be no argument about who was best, but he never made the most of his talents. Oh and it was not about taking pressure on his back, it was nothing to do with steel, it was pure arrogance that he refused to trust anyone but himself no matter how much better placed they were to shoot. That is why he wasted possession 20 times a day with shots into row z, when an easy pass was on to a player in the box. At the end of his career, in particular, defenders never even bothered to mark anyone if he had the ball on the edge of the box, they just closed him down and forced him to shoot high or wide. If he had just passed more, as he was more than capable of doing, he would have created two or 3 times as many goals as he did. Gerrard could, no should, have been even better, and that is what frustrates me. He was so supremely talented.}

14 Sep 2016 13:07:14
That's very sad to hear about Gerrard in regards to the not making the most of his talent part. The fact he is still so well regarded and considered one of our best ever players despite not making the most of his talents, is mind-blowing, because it shows just how much God given talent he actually had. It's absolutely tragic to think that he had untapped potential still left in the tank, also begs the question of what could have been had he tapped into these very deep reservoirs of potential, a player of his already great talents, with even more ability would surely have inspired us to an even greater amount of trophies. In defence of Gerrard, it could also have been overconfidence which caused him to try to do so much as well as a great desire to inspire his side to success, with him being a Liverpool fan. But I am aware of his mates constantly chirping in his ear about how good he was which would have inflated his ego.


{Ed001's Note - it wasn't just his mates, it was his family and the club. He needed his feet kept on the ground, but everyone was always bigging him up, that was why Rafa was so important in his development, because he would point out what Gerrard was doing wrong. There were more than enough people telling him how he was wonderful, he needed more Rafas pushing him to improve, but he never got them. I don't blame Gerrard at all, the main blame for me was down to the club. They pandered to him. He loved the club, he didn't need to be pandered to in order to keep him, but they were terrified of losing him.}

14 Sep 2016 14:21:50
Thanks for the info ed, so despite Gerrard's vast achievements, status in the club and ability, it's sadly all one big 'what could have been tale', due to everyone around him bar Rafa inflating his ego to the point that he was walking on clouds.


{Ed001's Note - in my opinion yes. He had the potential to put the argument beyond question about who is the greatest player in Liverpool's history. He had everything, even the defensive ability, until he got pandered too. He was outstanding in defence in his early games, but he was allowed to pick and choose where he played and how he played. That is exactly what went wrong at Real Madrid at one point, when the players were in charge. Players need to be motivated and driven to improve, he was being told he was already fantastic, so what motivation was there to improve?}

14 Sep 2016 16:09:22
Thanks for the inside info, ED. I definitely could not have known all this by just watching his games or reading the mainstream media reports. That`s why I love this site. I have become way more knowledgeable than ever before about the club. Thanks to all the Ed`s and posters for enriching said knowledge.


{Ed001's Note - you are welcome mate.}

14 Sep 2016 23:13:24
Hated Scholes for his assaults/ tackles but always admired his football skills.
Then read a article by Fergy where he said Paul Was The easiest guy he ever had contract talks with, Paul would walk in alone, MU would offer him more money and he would say that sounds about right, no agent skimming x %, no argument that soandso is on more, just cool, he went up in my estimation after I read that.
Always shocked he didn't put a season in to his beloved Oldham mind.


 
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