Liverpool Banter Archive November 14 2017

 

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14 Nov 2017 22:22:20
Would love to see Gomez given a shot at CB but think Klopp might be holding back as he feels TAA may not be ready to play every game at RB.

It's a brave decision to throw 2 inexperienced youngsters into your back 4.

I'd love to see them both play, perhaps if we can buy in a reliable leader at CB then Klopp will have a bit more confidence about bringing them both in. Maybe.

Believable5 Unbelievable1

14 Nov 2017 22:45:14
For now keeping it settled is probably best. We have played a more solid shape last couple of games which has belped the backline, making another change would certainly not help. Time is very much on our side with taa and gomez but I think it is quite clear that Gomez will end up a CB.


15 Nov 2017 08:31:10
Yes taa may not be there yet, but of its a choice of him or lovren?


14 Nov 2017 22:03:37
Think JG has just played his way into the England set up ahead of the likes of Keane . Big Dome Solanke forcing the issue to . Happy days .

Believable6 Unbelievable1

14 Nov 2017 22:01:58
Joe Gomez gets home tonight and empties his pockets; Coutinho, Neymar, phone, G. Jesus, keys, Marcelo, wallet.

Square T, you be sure to tell our man he was absolutely incredible tonight! £400m worth of attacking talent almost single handedly nullified at times. Wow, the best performance I've seen from an English defender since Ferdinand was in his prime.

Believable15 Unbelievable2

14 Nov 2017 22:57:51
Not bothered about England but great training session for Joe

He looks like the real deal

Well done but the game on Saturday is more important so keep focused and same again please Joe

Don’t really care if Pipco has a relapse and misses the game as it’s now more his loss than ours.


15 Nov 2017 08:47:46
I don't think Jurgen should play Coutinho to be honest. He clearly does not want to be with us and couldn't arsed. Always looks like he is playing for himself than for the team. And anyone notice that since he was back in the team, we went through that slump? Then he gets a mysterious injury again, and our form starts to improve. that can't be a coincidence. He can't be good for team morale at the moment. Say what you like about Emre, the boy at least puts in a shift, despite not wanting to be here. He at least is professional. We should have sold Coutinho in the window. I also did not want to see that happen. But I, like most thought he would at least be professional. How wrong I was.


14 Nov 2017 21:56:39
Can't see Joe playing very long at RB like I said a while back he's been told to push lovren and the form he's in surley sees him as a first choice in that position now.

Believable16 Unbelievable1

14 Nov 2017 22:06:43
Incredible from him mate. I can't get over how well he played.


14 Nov 2017 21:52:04
great game from Gomez tonight looked really good should give him lots of confidence àlso solanke looked good also for 20mins well done lads.

Believable11 Unbelievable0

14 Nov 2017 21:49:02
Well done to joe Gomez played really well tonight.

Believable5 Unbelievable0

14 Nov 2017 21:37:14
Gomez playing really well against a good Brazil side for England.
Solanke on for last 15 minutes.

Believable6 Unbelievable0

14 Nov 2017 21:48:25
Man of the match. Very much deserves it.


14 Nov 2017 18:17:00
Hi Ed1, question for you. I think Firmino is one of our best players and we are lucky to have him. His pressing creates goals for others, which if you look at it is as good as him scoring. Would you play him where he is going forward next season as a false nine or would you drop him behind a quote on quote out and out striker? I like the balance as it is with him, Salah and Mane either side, who all have enough goals to do without out an out and out striker but again would he be just as effective behind a number 9, in someone like Solanke.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - play him where he is.}

14 Nov 2017 18:49:45
Cheers for the quick response. I know Suarez was banging them in the Dutch league prior to arriving at Liverpool but do you see him doing a Suarez in the sense of hitting those 25+ a season figures? if he did he would get that worldwide recognition he truly deserves, although real Liverpool fans already value him as he is scoring 10/ 15 goals but his pressing and selflessness leading to goals for the likes of Salah, Mane and co.

I personally would like you leave him in the false nine and have a defensive minded midfielder alongside Keita and another Midfielder who can ping a pass or two who is also good in turning defense into attack with one ball, in a similar mold to Alonso. That would give us the ultimate balance to our midfield and forwards and have us making the step up in challanging for the title.


{Ed001's Note - I doubt he will ever score 25 but I do think he could easily get just under it this season.}

14 Nov 2017 21:44:56
He's come on for Brazil and nearly undone the defence with fab through ball Solanke just roamed through the Brazil defence and Gomez having a blinder.


14 Nov 2017 17:19:51
As its ask ed001 question day i have one for you. in regards to micheal johnson of man city. I know he had a tough time with imjurys but what ever happned to him. Was there other things that stopped him reaching his potential or was it just injurys. did you rate him by the way?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - he had a few mental problems mate. The injuries didn't help. He was never able to focus on the game properly and work at it. Actually mentality problems is a better way to word it. He was a great young player, but he never had that drive or desire you need.}

14 Nov 2017 17:07:07
Alright, just a little question for ed001. Something that bugs me watching footie today is the number of foul throws that are not pulled up by the refs. Even when I was a kid playing footie the refs would always have the player retake a foul throw but it seems refs don't enforce the rule at the highest level anymore. Do you think that refs are just letting it go to keep the flow of the game now or are they simply inept?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I think your first answer is correct, they just don't want to keep pulling up a game. Though I could be wrong and they might simply be as inept as they always seem and aren't noticing. I find that difficult to believe as it happens on every throw in, just about. The fact they aren't pulling them up on it would suggest the assessor is not pointing it out, so there must be a decision to just let it go.}

14 Nov 2017 17:21:02
Ultimately the whole point of a throw in is just the get the game restarted as quickly as possible, so long as a throw is isn’t blatantly a foul throw it would be petty to keep bringing them back for every little infringement.


14 Nov 2017 20:00:31
Appreciate the response ed001. I just find it odd that some rules are enforced and others are not. I agree that it probably is to keep the flow of the game but then refs seem to let goalkeepers hold onto the ball for much longer than the 6 seconds, so that pretty much kills the flow of the game. It seems like refs begin to take action when a big deal is made of something in the media.


{Ed001's Note - I find it odd too and find it really frustrating to see something so easily fixed allowed to pass out of what seems like laziness.}

14 Nov 2017 14:47:51
Hi Eds and Reds,

Question for Ed1 if you're about mate.

What has the general opinion about Michael Owen been around the club not just since he left but before it too.

Also, what is your opinion on his comments about Man United whilst "embassador" for LFC? And would you strip him of this role? I'm astounded he was given it in the 1st place to be honest.

Any insight would be great, keep up the good work.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - the commercial dept love him, he was never a club favourite before he left though and his comments were not well received.

My opinion on him is that he was never one of us anyway. Constantly wearing an Everton kit to training as a youth player just showed contempt for the club, imo. If you are going to do that, it just shows that you have no respect for the club you are a part of. His attitude while a player was sickening, he was far more interested in his horses than football anyway.

I would never have let him near the club again to be honest, let alone as an ambassador. However the club will keep him because he is good for business and makes it money with his fake squeaky clean image, when he is in reality a nasty little turd. It just shows that the club is more interested in making money off people than what the club stands for.}

14 Nov 2017 15:18:21
Thanks for the reply Ed1.

Not surprised to read that to be honest he's never seemed one of us as you say. Was unaware of the wearing the Everton kit to training! Luckily for him (and us on some occasions, FA cup final being one of them) he was talented then.

Disappointing that we brought him back to the club in any way and far more deserving players who are reds through and through. Out of curiosity how would he be making money for the club as opposed to any other ex player? He's not exactly a world superstar since warming Madrids bench is he?

Thanks again Ed1 keep up the great work.


{Ed001's Note - he is still one of the more recognisable ex-pros around, due to having played for us, the goal for England against Argentina and the fact that he would take anything to earn a few quid so endorsed everything and anything during his career.}

14 Nov 2017 15:29:51
That is a pretty harsh assessment of Owen. I didn't know that about the Everton kit, he was only a kid at the time though. I have very mixed feelings about Michael. I agree with you that he is not as clean as he makes out. The fact he played for United is enough to hate him but we have to remember that these guys are professionals. Most players end up playing for quite a few teams in their career. The Gerrards and lampards are quite rare.

He was so good for us though, remember the F. A. cup final against Arsenal when he banged in two classic Owen goals and proper done Keown. I used to love him, I remember his first game in the Europa league qualifications. I think it was Sion we played. He was fantastic as a sub. I think he scored? did he Ed?

I don't get why LFC fans hate him. I don't mean any disrespect Ed01, you know I value your opinion. I know he played for UTD but he also played for us. We all love Paul eh? (that was the other way though, utd to lfc) He is one of the best strikers we have ever had, I always thought he would be a Liverpool legend, thought he would come back from Madrid after a couple of years. He ruined that by joining utd, hated him for that.

So he has become an ambassador for us? is he the only one? why not Stevie G?


{Ed001's Note - harsh? Not in the slightest. That was my nice take on him.}

14 Nov 2017 15:37:40
I would have made Agger the club embasador over anyone. He is universally loved. Old or Young!


14 Nov 2017 16:13:27
Shame about Michael Owen, remember him being a brilliant player until his hamstrings went and his ego took over.


14 Nov 2017 16:36:26
lol ed01! yeah, I don't like him like I used to. Seeing him I a utd shirt made me feel sick, honestly.

He got blown out didn't he, ya know, he was finished by 25. His best asset was his speed. all we had to do was get Jamie redknapp to lob the ball forward and owen would get on the end of it. When his legs went he was well average.

I think he deserves ED01's criticism tbf, but we should also remember his magic when he was in his prime for us.


14 Nov 2017 17:50:39
We all make decisions in life that cause difference of opinion. I don't necessarily like his personality but his goals record for us was fantastic. His winning goal against Arsenal in the fa cup final will always be remembered.


14 Nov 2017 13:06:03
I think this question was asked and answered a while ago but how did we ever discover Couthino? Also how did we convince him to come to Liverpool?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

14 Nov 2017 13:13:09
Lack of first team opportunities. He came in and the Kop simply loved him from the moment he stepped on the pitch. The little man became the magician 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗.


14 Nov 2017 13:17:51
His was not a regular at Inter.


14 Nov 2017 13:46:18
He was struggling badly at Inter, who themselves were struggling and we were the highest profile escape he could dream of at the time. I've heard that Rafa recommended him to us but no idea if that's true.


14 Nov 2017 14:15:04
Scouts probably watched him at Espanoyol the season before. He played under Pochettino there and the team gathered a lot of interest and support for their style of football. It is what got Poch his move to England.

When he went back to Inter Milan he was expected to become a regular after his excellent loan, but it never happened. So he left.

Hjikle is correct though i believe. I've also heard that Rafa recommended him to the Liverpool scouts. It is probably more likely that they asked him for his opinion than Rafa knocking on their door and saying "see this 5ft6 Brazilian mop head? He's class lads"


{Ed001's Note - just to point out, it was Lucas who convinced him to sign for Liverpool, they were good friends prior to him joining and Lucas talked him round when he was not sure.}

14 Nov 2017 14:35:49
Brilliant thank's a million lad's.


14 Nov 2017 15:42:54
people talk about Liverpool f. c. as we are minnows? We are LFC, one of the biggest clubs in the world. One of the European elite clubs. The rest of Europe sees Liverpool as a massive club.


14 Nov 2017 16:06:52
Thats why I need him to show some respect to the club which gave him the chance to fulfill his potential.


14 Nov 2017 20:03:51
Agree 100% RedEka, I think he has showed lack of respect and class t be honest, fit enough to play for Brazil but not for the club that pays his weekly cheque. I know he's just itching to get away, either Barcelona or PSG, maybe its time to think about taking the cash and saying goodbye.


{Ed002's Note - Barcelona are looking to agree the Countinho transfer before November 30 (when someone departs Barcelona), else they may well start to look elsewhere - given they have a list of alternatives.}

15 Nov 2017 01:59:36
Thanks Ed002 for the feed back.


{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}

14 Nov 2017 12:39:49
With Chelsea looking to secure £750 million in sponsorship over the next7 years. What plans have the reds commercial team made to secure big deals.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

14 Nov 2017 13:08:34
Very good question GT because we really need to keep up with the other top club's on the commercial side of thing's.


14 Nov 2017 14:00:45
Sponsorships are directly proportional to the success on the pitch!


{Ed001's Note - not true.}

14 Nov 2017 14:37:00
In what way Ed?


{Ed001's Note - well Man Utd do not have to win anything to get big deals, whereas Leicester won the title but still can't even come close to the kind of commercial returns of a big club. On pitch success creates a proportional improvement on the base level, it is not directly proportional to the commercial income.}

14 Nov 2017 15:11:38
So is it a case of can do better for the club?


{Ed001's Note - yes, LFC is one of the biggest clubs in the world and they do not do well commercially comparatively. For instance, if I wear a Liverpool shirt here I get stopped all the time by people just wanting to talk about footie and LFC. Right now you can't even walk ten yards without an Egyptian running over shouting 'Salah' and stopping you to talk about Salah. Yet it is very difficult to get any kind of Liverpool merchandise in the area at all. Not as difficult as it used to be, there is no an LFC store in Abu Dhabi, for instance, but that is purely for New Balance stuff. Liverpool is huge here, Iraq and Egypt, in particular, yet they do very little. If it was me I would have club ambassadors out here constantly.}

14 Nov 2017 15:44:04
good answer Ed01.


{Ed001's Note - thank you.}

14 Nov 2017 15:53:33
Ed 1. Seems like an ideal location for the everton supporter aka Michael Owen. :) xx.


{Ed001's Note - god no please not near me!}

14 Nov 2017 16:40:48
That is bad Ed. Thank's for the very well informed reply mate.


{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

14 Nov 2017 17:12:18
Are you back in Dubai now Ed001? I just moved here myself from London and it’s lovely to say the least. Is there an unofficial club bar to watch the games in?

Red Sandman.


{Ed001's Note - I am back in Dubai mate, getting a bit chilly now though!

As for the bar, there is one in the Tecom area (if I remember correctly) which is where the Dubai Reds go. Goodfellas Bar it is called, in the Ramee Rose Hotel.}

14 Nov 2017 20:43:16
ed1 - I like what you said about success. There must be a relationship between sustained success and commercial viability? for example, I doubt that sponsors would have jumped on the Leicester train at the first instance? with the exception for those sponsors going that wanted quick exposure, doesn't sustained success and an established brand like manU over decades grow the capability for huge commercial revenue? I imagine that backers are investing into the brand that is manU that was built on decades of success etc. Altho I'm sure if that success eroded over 5 - 10 years then that commercial revenue would start to decline as well.

In any case, what really happened under Moores stewardship? You may have mentioned elsewhere, or perhaps you can point to where there is good info about it. From what I can gather, the 90s felt like a barren period for the club where the ownership perhaps sat on their laurels trying to get quick fix to rekindle the glory of the 80s. all the while the commercial world really took off and we were left lagging behind on the pitch and off it. do you have a take ed?


{Ed001's Note - it was never about the success with Man Utd, most of their success, commercially, came on the back of having an appealing story in the Busby Babes and Munich Disaster. That creates an interest, like the shock of Leicester winning did, that brings in commercial revenue out of all proportion to the size of the club prior to the event. The success is really not the big thing, it is having something for people to take to heart. Trophies bring a short term lift, but it only works in the long term if there is an identity to the club (which is why major brands work so hard on creating one).

It is like Pele, it was not just because he won things that he became the most marketable player of all time, it was because he had a story. Coming from poverty, the shoeless ones etc all created an identity to his brand that companies wanted to be seen to be a part of.

Under Moores Liverpool failed to build on their identity because it would have required investment, he would never put money into things, only take money out. While United had always been very much on the ball commercially, LFC were amateur. It was just a room above a pub running everything. If you are winning things, it is free advertising, the moment you are not then you have to put yourself out there and tell everyone about yourself as a club. Liverpool under Moores just sat back and he milked the cash cow.}

15 Nov 2017 02:44:42
Cheers Ed001! I shall check it out!

Red Sandman.


{Ed001's Note - hope you have a great time mate.}

14 Nov 2017 12:29:04
Been reading should Can start from now on since he's going to be moving and also for last 6 months why should we sell coutinho, we should make him honour his contract, etc, the two views contradict each other. Can should start every game IF he is the best option. Unlike Coutinho, he has honoured the contract he has signed, with his future undecided he still gives 100% in every game, yes it's a shame he hasn't signed a new contract but I personally will wish him all the best and hope he goes on to have a successful career.

Believable9 Unbelievable3

14 Nov 2017 13:16:28
Magnificently Post. You know the dumbest thing is to sell when you know he is the best solution. I just can’t believe we couldn’t convince him! Another 6 months of regular football in No.6 position and you are looking at a wonderful midifelder.


14 Nov 2017 13:47:50
100% agree on this. He’s been our best cm this season.


14 Nov 2017 13:47:51
Agreed Welsh, either players leaving shouldn't see the field or we should maximize the resources that we have - simple as.


14 Nov 2017 15:48:45
He is great, I am gutted he ain't signed a new contract. We have to sell him instead of letting him go on a free.

We will see quite a different team next year with Can and Coutinio gone. Klopp will definitely need to find some midfielders. we will have plenty of money. I think we will see a lot of signings in the summer. gk, cb, cb, mf amf and even a striker. it will be totally klopp's team then. I don't think we will do much in the January unless Can and coutinio go then. I don't think coutinio will ever play for lfc again.


14 Nov 2017 08:14:17
Ed01. Could you write something on the current situation of Seria A and how that has effected the Italian National Team! They were well beaten by Sweden yesterday. Left out Insigne, Belotti and El sharaway on the bench and as a result they crashed out from the qualifier. An inept and awful manager I can't believe!

Cheers mate.

Believable1 Unbelievable4

{Ed001's Note - the current situation of Serie A is not the issue, Serie A is growing in strength recently. Italy just have a completely inept manager who has no idea how to use the players at his disposal.}

14 Nov 2017 08:43:49
He Asked De Rossi to warm up when they needed a goal, De Rossi then preceded to point at Insigne saying we need a goal a striker on the pitch I think that sums up how inept the manager was.


{Ed002's Note - You don't need to worry, Gian Piero Ventura will be gone soon.}

14 Nov 2017 08:58:33
Ed002 who would be in the front running for the job, I know there's a lot of talk about Carlo A, Mancini potentially getting it?


{Ed002's Note - Ask on the European page please.}

14 Nov 2017 09:04:25
It's just shocking, I am Italian and this I would never of guessed in a million years, what a dreadful manager this should never of happened. International football doesn't really do it for me but of course I always want Italy/ England to do well but that's more or less impossible. Especially when there's a manager like him in charge, recipe for disaster.


14 Nov 2017 12:57:28
The team played was woeful, when you have players like insigne on the bench.


14 Nov 2017 14:17:35
De Rossi is one of my all time favourite players. That ended up as his last international game as he's retired apparently.

So to refuse to go on and tell the manager to put on an attacker was not only brave, but incredibly selfless to give up his final goodbye international cap. Absolute legend for Italy and Roma.


{Ed001's Note - he didn't refuse to go on, he refused to go and warm up as there was only a few minutes left and De Rossi thought they should be getting the strikers ready to go on, not him.}

14 Nov 2017 16:57:15
These things happen from time to time at the end of a great generation, the great Holland team from the 70’s reached two World Cup finals and subsequently failed to qualify for either World Cup in the 80’s, similarly the French team of the 80’s reached two World Cup semifinals and won the 84 Euro’s and then failed to qualify for the 90 or 94 World Cup. If looks to me as an outsider that Italy’s problem was the transition between the old guard who are all probably past their best and some excellent young players who aren’t quite ready yet. They also weren’t helped by some pretty inept coaching. I’m sure Italy will be a force again sooner rather than later.


14 Nov 2017 17:38:54
Hard luck Corleone mate, must feel real bad without your Country in the World cup considering you are always a semi-final candidate each time (at least)


15 Nov 2017 21:15:29
Simone Inzaghi is my guess, allthough it might be a bit early for him. atleast he knows how to attack.


14 Nov 2017 05:26:32
Hi Eds and fellow readers.

I saw something interesting on the comment section of BBC Sport's article about Everton's approach for Silva as their new manager.

Has there ever been any discussion about a transfer window for managers? I. E that you can only approach a manager from another club during a transfer window? It may be a good idea in giving managers a bit more time to find their feet rather than sacking them as soon as results start to turn.

What do you all think?

Red Sandman.

Believable8 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I think it would help, make it just during the close season that you can change managers. Then players would have to just get on with it until the summer.}

14 Nov 2017 06:23:28
Excellent idea, it would stop some of these clubs like Sunderland changing mangers every 5 minutes and give players less power and mangers more of a chance to actually do their jobs.


14 Nov 2017 07:35:24
Difficult one.
You can look at it with Crystal Palace and De Boer. They made a judgment to sack him in the hope that bringing a new manager in will save them from relegation and keep them in the elite financial table of the premier league.
That’s the business to our beloved game
On the other hand, in trust in what you sought. Again using De Boer, he was seeked. Interviewed and deemed suitable for the job. Only having a handful of games to prove himself isn’t good enough. With answers at finger tips now. There is no patience in anything. If that’s Crystal Palace’s philosophy. If Roy Hodgson goes on a four or five game losing streak will he lose his job too?
Personally, I thought that was a prime job for a young manager to come in and prove his worth.


14 Nov 2017 07:42:33
I agree with Ed001, although I would add that the manager can not be sacked in the first 2 years of being at a club.


14 Nov 2017 07:46:50
No way. We've of had 2 years of Hodgson.


14 Nov 2017 08:28:45
I actually regret the way we fans treated Hodgson.

He had absolutely bugger all to spend. Meireles, Jovanovic, Konchesky, Poulsen and Cole! How was he supposed to turn around a team that had just lost Alonso, Hyypia and Mascherano? No to mention he had Gerrard, Torres and Agger on the treatment table.

Hodgson took a hit that every manager in world football would've taken in the same situation. There is literally nobody who could've turned us around with what he had to deal with.

Dalglish took over just as we got our injured players back fit, and just before we got new owners who signed Suarez and Carroll that January.

Did Hodgson really stand a chance taking the job in the midst of the club being sold with no investment?

I'm not sure It would've changed much at all if he'd stayed for 2 years. He was the scapegoat for a transitional period and i regret the way we (myself included) treated him. He is a lovely bloke and nowhere near as bad a manager as the press make out at times.

I doubt we'd have won anything with him, but would we have done much worse than the mid table finishes we got in the next 3 years with Dalglish and Rodgers? Probably not.


14 Nov 2017 08:57:23
Manager window is a tricky one - everyone agrees till their team is sinking and their manager looks to blame, then they praise the lord that they can act!

MK - Really? Roy was awful. He chose those players he bought in but even with our injuries, our team wasn't a relegation team and that's where he had us playing. It wasn't just the players, the tactics he demanded were basically Fulham in Red. We would not only have done worse with than with KD and BR (remember, KD won a cup and got to the final of another, and BR almost took the league for all his faults) we almost certainly would not have gotten the players in and through like Suarez, Coutinho and sterling in that period either. Seriously, can you imagine him looking at the scrawny little kid struggling at Inter and seeing the potential? Or a player like Suarez seeing the slow, cautious build up play he refused to leave behind and thinking 'yep, that's for me! '. I'm not sure even Sturridge would have chosen us if he had stayed in charge - Ricky Lambert would have been the limit of his potential, not his squad backup. He was a disaster and his complete ineptitude to even try something different when what he was doing was clearly destroying us very much earned him not just the sack, but the enternal disrespect of the fans.


14 Nov 2017 09:04:27
Exactly what I said at the time. With the injurys the squad had he had no chance.
I think that if he had Gerrard etc fit he would of done just as good as king Kenny and Rodgers. Really nice bloke and gets undeserved stick. I hope he keeps Palace up.


14 Nov 2017 10:24:00
I don't really want to get sucked in on a big debate about it hijkle, but if somebody said to you "the board and the fans expect to finish top 4, your 3 best outfield players are aging and injury prone, but you are only allowed £15m to spend" would you take the job?

I know i wouldn't. Hodgson was negative in his tactics, but so was Rafa. The difference was Rafa always had money to spend. Hodgson also took his 'Fulham in white' to a European final so they weren't exactly a bad team.

He was set up to fail to be honest. Never the right man for the job as we needed somebody with fresh ideas and charisma to inspire a fading group of players. It took 5 years of mediocrity before we got Klopp though. I just think Hodgson gets an unfair amount of stick. Nobody would've achieved top 4 with the resources he had. Not when United, Chelsea and Arsenal were at the top of the game still and Spurs and City were becoming forces domestically as well.


14 Nov 2017 12:41:05
rafas tactics were negative but he was the guy who smashed 4 goals at old trafford and after few days 4 mire at anfield against Madrid. so even if he was negative please don't put Rafa and Hodgson in the same sentence. one felt his friendship with fergie was very important and the other cried in the Hilsbrough prayer.


14 Nov 2017 13:57:45
Think you misunderstood Crazy horse. I'm only comparing their tactical approaches, not them as people. Rafa is the joint nicest man to have ever managed Liverpool in my opinion; joint with Dalglish.

Hodgson just didn't deserve the dogs abuse he got. Neither did Dalglish the following season. They both had to work in extremely difficult circumstances, but Hodgson was the main fall guy.

I think everyone is misinterpreting my point. Hodgson literally got hounded out of the club, threatened, abused from the stands etc. Then the managers who followed him have won 1 trophy in the last 7 years and qualified for the CL twice. I am not saying Hodgson would've done better, but if you'd given him that amount of time and money i wouldn't mind betting he'd have won a trophy.

My argument was purely to counter the point made by Hugh Mungus that we'd have been stuck with Hodgson for two years. Because i don't think it would've made any difference if we had been. If that rule existed, Hodgson probably wouldn't have got the job in the first place because the club would've taken more time to choose a manager. I like the idea of a rule that managers can't be sacked. Players don't get sacked for (subjectively) underperforming. Teams would just stop handing out such ridiculously long contracts and it might save the clubs some money (and ultimately the fans who fund everything in the game either directly or indirectly) .

Managers should only be sacked for breaching their contract. If they sign a contract which stipulates they have to reach a certain target, then they can't complain if they get sacked. Because they would've contractually agreed to it when taking the job. No manager should be sacked after less than 1 season though. It's frankly ridiculous.

If managers weren't allowed to be sacked we'd probably still have Rafa in charge today and still be one of the best teams in England and Europe. Sacking Rafa and appointing 3 managers successively who weren't good enough has set us back behind our rivals by half a decade. Klopp looks like putting us back on the map but it's still not a given.


{Ed001's Note - Rafa and Hodgson were nothing alike tactically. Rafa played a deep defence with the intention of drawing opponents in and countering. Hodgson played a deep defence with the intention of playing as many players as possible blocking off the goal to stop the opponent scoring. Hodgson got abuse because he was more concerned with being Fergie's buddy than beating United and said the most idiotic comment ever "a draw with Everton would be a good result" after a defeat at their hands. The guy did not understand LFC or Liverpool or the fans. He should never have got the job.

He is too arrogant and stupid to change his ways because he has always done it that way, which is sheer idiocy. It is akin to rejecting keyhole surgery because they always used to do it with invasive surgery. If he was in charge of things we would still be on horseback because there is no need to move on to cars as we always rode horses.

By the way Hodgson's training methods never involved any work on attacking play at all. Not one bit. It was all about shape work. Constant drilling on defending. Rafa used to work on attacking play as well as defending.}

14 Nov 2017 14:05:12
RH was not negative in his tactics. He was naieve at best and woefully underprepared at worst. The difference between Roy and Rafa is that RH didn't know or care where the goal was coming from, he considered it a bonus if it happened and was prepared to take draws as a decent result against anyone. Rafa was very defensive but the team still knew how to score, even if it was nothing more complicated than quick balls on the floor to get Torres behind the defense. Not to mention he started with the basic tenant of 'build a world class defense' - not bring in players barely making the grade at fulham.

Like I said, it might be the case that anyone we had in his position would struggle. But we were not just struggling with him. We weren't failing to secure a Europa league place. He was after 10 games telling us to prepare for a relegation battle.

I love your posts MK but I genuinely believe that some of the unearned arrogance we've seen over the past few years has endeared you to simple Roy's gent modesty. I really think you have forgotten just how awful we played every game, how badly even our best players were trying to make sense of instructions they knew would never win a game and how utterly without ideas, inspiration and drive we were while he was a manager. We had plenty on the field despite a lot of injuries - Maxi, Kuyt, Johnson, Agger, Miereles, Carra, Skrtel, Reina, Aurelio, Gerrard and Torres for some of the time etc. It may colour his record as worse than it would be if he finished the season, but there is no doubt that his record was not 'par for the players'.


14 Nov 2017 16:12:26
Hey Ed01

Based on the Rafa way of setting up his teams and the training and tactical side. do you think based on the players we have currently he would have a successful team if managing us now?

Just based on how quick we attack. if we had the deep lying defence well prepared and drilled with lighting quick counter would it work in your opinion?

Cheers.


{Ed001's Note - not really, he would look for a different midfield.}

14 Nov 2017 16:25:06
Feel like everything is lost in translation here Ed001 😂 I'll break my points down

1. I never said they have similar tactics, just that they both use defensive tactics. Obviously (just like you can have different attacking styles) you can have different defensive styles. You explained the differences perfectly in my opinion so no need for me to rehash your point.

2. I do not like how easy and habitual it has become to go through managers. It is far too easy to chop and change. Liverpool have had 5 managers since 2009. Rafa, Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers and now Klopp. I will take a guess right now and say that aside from Dalglish the 4 preceding Klopp had some kind of pay off to terminate their contracts. Let's conservatively estimate that at £5m each? That is £15m wasted as long managers. What do they say in these board meetings?
"oh he looks alright. Shall we carry out due diligence? "
"Nah, just give him a 5 year contract. If it goes wrong we'll just pay him off and cover the costs by raising ticket prices"
It just doesn't sit comfortably with me.

3. In the 7 years since Hodgson left we have spent over half a billion pounds on players and won a single League Cup. I personally think Hodgson probably could've managed that. In fact i think any average manager could given that much time and money. The constant transition has just set us back years though.

4. I wanted Hodgson sacked at the time and i don't disagree it was the right thing to do. All I'm saying is that if we had been obliged to give him 1-2 years i don't think we'd be in a too dissimilar position to what we are anyway, and that if there was that obligation to give managers more time, the boards at football clubs might take more care when picking a manager and we may never have ended up with an appointment as careless as Hodgson.

5. Hodgson worked in such difficult circumstances that he could've been anyone and still failed. Thus, he takes abuse which isn't warranted amongst the criticism which is justifiable (such as the things you pointed out) . He seems to be the most hated manager in the clubs history mainly for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Another disastrous product of the H&G era.

I'm not really defending Hodgson, though he did take some unfair stick such as the threats that some of our fans are so good at. I'm Just arguing the case for a law to protect managers from being sacked so easily so that we don't end up with managers like Hodgson, and managers like Rafa don't end up sacked after 1 bad season in 5 years at a club. I don't know what the solution is, but i just don't think a rule that managers have to be given 2 years is that bad of an idea, or a rule where managers can only be sacked for breaching contractual obligations. that way you don't end up with managers (who are human, believe it or not) like Bilic who look like a quivering mess because their futures are completely undecided and completely out of their hands. Owners can literally sack a manager just because they don't like his style of play and that to me is disgusting. You picked him, you back him. If they want a get out clause, stop giving out massive contracts that us fans end up paying for, and put it in the contract what is expected of managers so that the decision to sack someone isn't completely subjective. Perhaps some clubs already do that and we just don't hear about it though.

I doubt even most managers will agree with me ultimately because they probably love the huge pay outs for failing!


 
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