Liverpool Banter Archive December 14 2017

 

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14 Dec 2017 18:30:52
Ed what's your opinion on giving coutinho the captains armband when he has made it quite clear he does not want to be at the club. Is it another big Klopp mistake sending a bad message to the rest of the team? Who would your shout be if Milner and Henderson don't play?

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - captains should be centre backs for me, they can see the game in front of them and are close enough to bawl out the rest of the team. Coutinho does not deserve it.}

14 Dec 2017 20:38:27
Cou may not deserve it globally and that is fine. However, Klopp it is reported, googled who the longest serving player was amongst those that would start and saw that Cou was said player hence, he gave it to him. Ed, I take your point as to me, CB's or certain mid's should be captains.

Les, I think you are reading too much into this capt. stuff as I am sure Klopp does not care what all the innuendo or whatever as no manager works that way so to me, there was NO mistake there and bte, we won that game 7-0 with Cou scoring a hatrick. Nothing to see here, really.


14 Dec 2017 22:10:30
I agree with Ed on this to be honest. I was captain for my last team but i played as a striker. I used to scream at people but the defence can't hear you. In the end i switched to midfield mainly because it got me closer to the action and my team mates could hear me. It has to be someone in the thick of the action.


14 Dec 2017 23:00:17
BR couts was captain against west brom too!


14 Dec 2017 23:12:02
According to BR, Klopp never does a mistake 😄😄. So much love. I wonder, what will happen if Klopp gets the sack!


14 Dec 2017 23:55:54
the worst thing is having a striker yell instructions at the rest of the team on defending lol.


15 Dec 2017 00:01:50
If Klopp gets the sack we will go backwards fast Harry. You don’t appreciate what you’ve got until it’s gone. Just remember that when you’re picking at every little decision he makes whilst not giving him any credit for the good decisions he makes.


15 Dec 2017 00:12:44
Firstly, I would hope Klopp knows enough about his players that he doesn't have to resort to Google to see who's been there the longest.

Secondly, since we're not exactly blessed an abundance of leadership in the dressing room, I can sort of understand Klopp giving it to the longest serving player in the absence of Hendo and Milner, rather than trying to pick the best leader from who's left, something I'd consider extremely difficult because I honestly don't think any of them are captain material at the moment. However, when the longest serving player actively wants to leave and is a complete non-entity without the ball, maybe you should look at giving it to someone who's guaranteed to at least put a shift in.

I'd have given it to Firmino.


15 Dec 2017 00:35:23
I don’t think there’s many true captains in the premier league. It’s become more of a ceremonial position rather than the manager on the pitch like it used to be. Kompany maybe when he actually plays? Johnny Evans? Spurs have Lloris which baffles me as most games they play he spends most of his time at least 40 yards from the nearest player!


14 Dec 2017 19:29:08
Lovren matip or klavan then ed001 aha?


{Ed001's Note - yes. Klavan is the captain of his country and Lovren plays better when he has responsibility.}

15 Dec 2017 02:21:42
Oh! I truly appreciate what he is doing at the club, In the mean time I am also aware he is poor in certain other departments and his future, I repeat his future truly depends on the performance of the team as a whole!


15 Dec 2017 06:30:18
Something red. He actually told everyone in interview after spartak that he used google.


15 Dec 2017 08:05:37
Unbelievably Faith in works, i was probably the best defender in the team i played for! Most the goals i scored i had to win the ball back myself. It was the worst team I've ever had the misfortune of playing for.


15 Dec 2017 09:05:20
It's a political ploy to wake up Henderson.


15 Dec 2017 10:52:42
Exactly, Lfcfan. Harry, Klopp makes mistakes and at the same time, tries to learn from them. That is all I care about as no manager is perfect. You saying his future depends on the perf. of the team BUT that is NO news to anyone as it applies to every manager in any league. Harping on this point all the time, is not helpful.

If Klopp gets the sack and deserves it like BR did, I have no problems as in the end, it's part of the job. What I have issues with is people losing their marbles each time we draw a game (not even lose) and start saying Klopp is this or that or has not taken us forward or cos he has not won the PL or trophy fast enough for them, then he needs to go.

That is what I have issues cos careful what you wish for. Klopp will get the Bayern job tmrw if he leaves. We will get a manager inferior to him. Remember that, when people start losing their marbles again after a draw.


14 Dec 2017 18:24:43
Hi eds, gentlemen,

Not club related, but some interesting news coming out of France, with video refereeing being introduced into the Ligue 1 next season.

Do you guys think the Premier League should introduce it as well? Would it make a big difference?

It would be good to get everyone's opinion on it.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I thought it was being introduced next season?}

14 Dec 2017 19:29:25
I think they will trial it in the Cup games, I haven’t heard or read anything about the premier league itself.


14 Dec 2017 19:40:29
Excuse my lack of knowledge but what the hell is video refereeing? so by the sounds of things there's no real referee? I don't know I may be too old school for this but it makes no sense, surely this would take up too much time? if somebody could enlighten me, I have never seen it in action.


14 Dec 2017 19:52:21
It was an absolute horror show at the confed cup.


14 Dec 2017 19:58:29
I’ve not seen it either. For me it should be a bit like tennis you get two calls each for a match if your right you keep your call if your wrong you loose it. It would stop a lot of moaning and you could challenge a decision. Just my opinion.


14 Dec 2017 19:59:55
Would be ideal if it was done like cricket and tennis with limited appeals by capt to stop spurious appeals.


{Ed025's Note - it would ruin the game for me Tc..

14 Dec 2017 20:05:22
Not if it disallowed your ridiculous penalty😏.


{Ed025's Note - the video ref would have upheld the penalty decision Tc....but only because it was a blatant shove in the back mate..

14 Dec 2017 20:09:56
While we're at it why not abolish draws have three judges who would award the match that way we would have had an additional 4 points this week 😂😂😂.


{Ed025's Note - its not strictly come dancing you know Tc...mind you with all the prima-donnas you have you would probably win that.. :)

14 Dec 2017 20:11:57
I actually thought it was a pen.


{Ed025's Note - and you would be right mate, big mistake by lovren though as DCL was going nowhere and had no support..

14 Dec 2017 20:44:52
I'll digress from the Everton pen issue and we don't really know if it would be upheld ass the ref had only one angle and the VAR would have multiple angles so we don't know.

Now as for the VAR, I have seen it used in the Bundesliga a lot and it works perfectly as there is an official who watches on the sideline and when say, pen. or goal is scored. The ref thinks it is valid BUT if it is not, this official calls the ref to look at this on the video and in a minute, the decision is either upheld or reversed. I hope it comes to the PL.


{Ed025's Note - it would end up like american football brover, half the fun is the ref getting it wrong.. :)

14 Dec 2017 21:27:13
I remember being on a forum once and mentioned the beachball icident and our fans loved it 'as it gave them something to talk about afterwards'! Sorry, I'd rather win/ draw the match than get done by a bad decision!


{Ed025's Note - i enjoyed that incident keith...you spoil sport.. :)

14 Dec 2017 23:11:54
Been in rugby for years and hasn't killed the game or turned into american style sports. The challenge is don't give it to refs as an opt out so they can indulge cowardice and get someone else to make the dcision. The idea of getting the ref to look and make his own call works best. Would be great for one thing, if the diving cheats were gping to be caught during the game, when it counts then that has to be a positive.


14 Dec 2017 22:29:42
Ed25, I disagree. The best thing about the NFL are the acrobatic sometimes, one-handed catches as well as kick off/ punt returns that got for touchdowns.

On another note, what do you think about the way Craig Powson ran to penalty spot on the Everton penalty? He was completely milking the moment and really giving it to the Everton fans and they were all yukking it up, big time.


{Ed025's Note - powson did milk it a bit WRED but he knew he had got a major decision right so i dont blame him, our supporters were bound to be happy mate, we were awful and getting a draw at anfield was beyond expectation so you cant really blame them..

15 Dec 2017 10:47:04
Details - rugby has probably over used the video ref. Bloody stopping game for anything that might be foul play. i think the trick is to keep it simple. Review every goal scored and the 2 phases / passes leading up to it and then give ref chance to review a penalty decision.


16 Dec 2017 23:39:09
Absolutely agree faith hence said don't let refs use as an opt out. Certainly they could deal with cheats like the divers and stop the most contentious game changing mistakes.


14 Dec 2017 15:53:19
Dear Macca,

It's been a while since you posted. Any action in the upcoming transfer window?

Crimson Ride.

Believable8 Unbelievable0

14 Dec 2017 16:53:04
Ed2 got us covered with the sharkopod.


Liverpool v West Bromwich Albion - A Liverpool Perspective

14 Dec 2017 15:03:57
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Liverpool v West Bromwich Albion - A Liverpool Perspective

Believable3 Unbelievable0

14 Dec 2017 15:32:21
I was at the game last night ed you're right about the atmosphere, you could hear the players shouting more than the crowd. It's the chicken and egg though isn't it, good football makes it better.


14 Dec 2017 16:53:44
I thought it was just me who thought Coutinho has a dreadful game
it would be better to be subbing him earlier when he performs like this as your basically playing with ten men defensive wise.


14 Dec 2017 17:06:52
The whole performance was flat, including the atmosphere. We ran out of ideas last night and seemed unable to find any kind of cutting edge. West Brom, while defending reasonably well, behaved appallingly with the constant time wasting which contributed to perhaps the most boring 90 minutes of Football I've ever witnessed.

Ed001 has been right in questioning Coutinho, despite his recent form, because he looked like a player who was not interested at all.


14 Dec 2017 17:18:44
Hugh - somehow we have gone from all feeling good and upbeat 6 months ago to now all feeling a bit underwhelmed. Its the same thing season after season, the players just don't have the hunger, the desire and a lot of them the skill to take us forward.

The way they sell tickets doesn't help the atmosphere, the amount of tickets on these sites for £150+ is crazy. The music at the games is dull and at most games now the crowd only builds up 5 mins before kick off. Years ago even if the match was dull the atmosphere would always cheer me up now it just depresses me.


14 Dec 2017 18:14:53
Very accurate review especially on Coutinho, the man offers nothing, his head isn't at Liverpool anymore. I really hope we can sell him in January, I think he's causing too much disruption the team doesn't need. Thanks Ed001.


{Ed001's Note - cheers, if his head was right he would be excellent. Problem is it isn't and there are far too many times when he is a passenger which makes things difficult. I really do not know what the answer is while he is with us. It is a waste to leave talent like that on the sidelines but he needs to earn a shirt.}

14 Dec 2017 18:30:40
Depend's if the manager trusts him to perform in the second half of the season. If not he has to be sold now. He is way off his overall performances of the last 3 years.


14 Dec 2017 18:41:52
I wasnt too happy with the Ref, again, with all six subs used, and way too much time wasting from West Brom, their goalie did my head in, that sub who kept hold of the ball, yes he got booked, but we got no advantage at all, the ref just giving the 3 mins, when maybe 5 mins would have been fair .
I did think that West Brom played ok, but their new manager had them playing anti football at times .


14 Dec 2017 19:04:38
Stop playing in centre mid position will go a long way to getting the best out of him.

On another note, the atmosphere debate always rages some kind of toxic path! To me there is no chicken and egg, the fans are there to support the team, so support the team. Anfield sounds like a graveyard on the telly and I've never bought into the whole turning microphones down rubbish, especially when in that same game the away fans are chanting "this is a library".!


14 Dec 2017 19:17:22
Forget the refs, the players win or lose games.


14 Dec 2017 20:12:23
Salah
His head was at Anfield less than a week ago when he scored a hat trick against Spartak.


{Ed025's Note - i would have scored 3 against them irish.. :)

14 Dec 2017 20:47:43
The Irish Rover - I knew somebody would come up with this, yeah he had a good game but isn't consistent with it is he? He has done nothing remotely close to that the rest of his games this season, the majority of them he's done bugger all mate.


15 Dec 2017 00:02:59
This season he has 9 goals and 7 assists from 16 games. He's easily our second best player this season. There's a lot of rubbish been spoken which is based on nothing but prejudice.


14 Dec 2017 19:36:13
Very true Ed001, he's a brilliant footballer there's no doubt about it, but this seems to be only when he wants to be one which I don't understand. I get it he wants out but we're still paying his wages he should be performing to his potential if not for the club then at least for the fans but footballers these days don't seem to give a damn for the fans now.

I may have missed it but is there still interest from Barcelona in him? it seems to of gone very quiet considering it's almost January I thought there may have been more news about a potential January move. The thought of him keeping here until the summer somewhat worries me going on his performances the majority of the season.


{Ed001's Note - they have had a change in personnel in the dept that deals with transfers. The guy who was trying to put the deal together is gone, so it will take the new one a bit of time to get settled in and working on new deals. They do still have interest, but he is not the only one they are after.}

14 Dec 2017 20:59:50
Spot on, Ed. The team lacked some juice in every dept. BUT the fans did not help them at all. And I disagree that it is up to the players to provide good football to entice the fans. The fans are there to support the team esp. when they are struggling. If you only support cos you see good football then a lot of other grounds would not be bouncing as good football does not always happen.

As for the players, Mane is in a confidence crisis, Robbo has a lot of work to do before he can be a Klopp type FB as not all FB's can play the way Klopp want, and Cou is NOT doing much and bar the hatrick vs Spartak this season and it is still an issue and will be till he leaves. Either way, we have to take it on the chin and move on.

I would as the Ed01 about the disallowed goal. I saw the very same goal allowed to stand for Arsenal vs Burnley and Hull last season so what IYO, made the ref (a completely clueless one overall) disallow the goal? Cheers, mate.


{Ed001's Note - because it was handball, it was the right decision this time, regardless of what happened in other games.}

15 Dec 2017 09:00:37
Matches that on another night the decisions could of gone with us last night the handball witch looks a good goal to me and the pen against Everton shame but these are the type of games we probably lose last year were so close but progress has definitely been made.

The only problem I see is with the subs klopp is slow to react with them with correct player on and off how can he improve on this? Thanks.


15 Dec 2017 08:36:13
Ah that makes sense, thanks for that Ed1.


{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

14 Dec 2017 10:42:43
Ignoring the rest of the performance, Klopp has an interesting problem now. Karius has been good all season in the Champions league despite rarely having much to do, there wasn't much he could do about most of the goals we conceeded there.

Now he's been given his second PL game with a fair bit to do, and did much better than Mings has been doing on average this season. Klopp said he started because Mings had a niggle, but does he seize the opportunity and let Karius continue or does he revert back to the 'standard' back line?

Believable13 Unbelievable4

14 Dec 2017 10:51:47
There is no interesting problem. He meant what he said! Mignolet will be back once he is fully fit!


14 Dec 2017 11:17:24
Karius should be the number 1 now, Migs has never and will never be good enough for us, Karius last night showed some signs of utter class, if Migs is put in front of him now then I just don't know anymore. To me the whole GK situation is a shambles, rotating them left right and center it's pure stupid, keep to one goalkeeper, the one who looks the best, Karius! I love Klopp and have little bad to say about him but this is a big problem he needs to fix, why stand by Migs? I just don't get it and it really frustrates me.

I fear if Karius doesn't get the chances he deserves he may get fedup and want out? who knows. I've seen many people saying we need another GK to this I can't disagree more, we have not only Karius but Ward, why do we need another Goalkeeper?


14 Dec 2017 11:24:40
Karius this season has 5 clean sheets in 8 games, conceding just 6 goals. 5 of which came against Sevilla who are one of the top 4 teams in Spain nowadays.

For me it's a no brainer. He has to start over Mignolet who despite improving, still cost us a victory as recently as 2 weeks ago by misjudging Willian's cross. He also cost us a result against Watford, Burnley and Newcastle just off the top of my head. Those 8 points alone would have us on the edge the title race, rather than the edge of top 4. I'd even argue that he was partially at fault for the first goals against both Spurs and Man City, though it's speculative to suggest we'd have got a result in those games anyway. Plus he nearly cost us another 2 points at Leicester, but Vardy bailed him out with a penalty Benteke would be embarrassed by. In fact the only points dropped where Mignolet is blameless for me are the draws against United, Everton and West Brom. Every other point dropped, he had a part to play in it in my opinion. That's alarming when you factor in that United and Everton put him under absolutely no pressure and he didn't play against the Baggies! He's not always the sole culprit, or even the main culprit, but he is usually involved when things go wrong at the back!

Mignolet is a lovely bloke. I follow him on social media and he really is a genuinely nice guy who noticeably tries harder than any other Liverpool player to engage with the fans, but he is costing us 15-20 points a season. It is genuinely that bad as well, when you realise his mistakes have directly cost us at least 8 points in 17 games so far. At that rate he'll cost us about 18 points this season. All players make mistakes, but we can't carry someone who makes nearly 10 a season which lead to a goal.

I don't even think Mignolet is awful now. He is probably average or slightly above it. It is just his frequent rash decisions or lapses in concentration that make him a liability. Same applies to Lovren. If they have error free games, they're actually all right players. Between them though, they're averaging an error leading to a goal every other game! Over a season you accept that even top keepers and defenders might make 1 or 2 glaring mistakes. But 10? It's got to change. Karius should be first choice for that reason alone; He is less error prone.


14 Dec 2017 13:18:01
Look forward to your analysis of both how many points he saved as well by his shots saved and also the points lost by other players as a direct result of an error or mistake. I'm sure we would owe the league points if you total them up.

Oh sorry? your comment was a random number based on your perception rather than fact? ah well, .


14 Dec 2017 14:17:30
Marshy how many saves has Mignolet made that were truly great? I can only think of the Penalty save against Hoffenheim and possibly the save against Brighton 15 seconds before we scored (though in my opinion Murray fluffed his lines and made it easy, ou could argue Mignolet's positioning and reactions had to be spot on) . He makes routine saves, but he doesn't make saves that he has no right to make regularly. Not like Lloris, De Gea, Ederson and Courtois do.

Even if he hadn't made that save against Brighton, we were playing so well we might have won anyway, but I'll play your little game. So say he saved us 2 points by stopping Murray? That reduces his points cost down to 6 in 15 league appearances. Woohoo! Knight him!

All players make small errors. If they didn't, football could be solved by an algorithm. If you hyper analyse every goal, there will always be an error involved. If you hyper analyse every failed attack, there will always be an error!

We are talking about major errors though that directly and undeniably cost us points. Not being weak in a one of one, or from a cross, or being beaten by a decent shot. Those are more of a lack of ability rather than a massive mistake.

Everybody makes mistakes. Maybe it's a misplaced pass, punching the ball when you should catch it, a missed shot, an over hit cross, or even just not communicating with a team mate. Those are all errors which happen all the time, but they aren't critical errors.

Critical errors are missed penalties, being out of position, conceding a needless set piece, flapping the ball to the feet of an opposition player, missing an open goal, passing it straight to the opposition under no pressure etc.

Of course this is all my perception. Football isn't an exact science. There is no algorithm to solve it. It is that subjective debate that makes it so popular. Rather than attacking my opinion purely for being an opinion (yes, you seriously did that), why don't you try and counter my point of view? Find me some examples where Mignolet has done something brilliant. Not a run of the mill save. Might as well start applauding defensive clearances under no pressure, or 5 yard passes from a midfielder, or a striker for getting in the box. Saving shots is the minimum expectation of a goal keeper. It doesn't make Mignolet great if he stops 2 shots a game hit nearly straight at him.

I'm all ears though. Explain to me why Mignolet is good enough for a team with title winning aspirations. I'm really looking forward to it.


14 Dec 2017 14:32:26
Very well said MK.


14 Dec 2017 15:51:33
The same De Gea you said wasn't world class MK? Not sure goalkeeping critiques are your strong suit kid.


14 Dec 2017 16:55:24
You say he is slightly above average but costs us 15-20 points a season. Not sure that makes any sense. He is crap and costs us about 10-12 points more likely.


14 Dec 2017 16:56:49
Migs costs us 15-20 points a season? It's difficult to take a post seriously with a statement like that.


14 Dec 2017 17:31:01
Migs isn't the worst, but he's also light years from great. I don't like knee jerk reactions, but he has had 3 full years. Face it, he isn't going to get any better and he simply isn't good enough. You don't have to be a great GK critic to see that.


14 Dec 2017 17:34:45
If we had swapped keepers with MU at the start of the season I am sure we would have 6/ 9 more points at this time, and while I don't usually watch them apart from against us the whole match against Arsenal and the save from Matip were 6 points MU wouldn't have got had Mings been in goal for them (I'm sure De Gea has contributed some more) .
That's a minimum swing of 12 points, possibly as high as 18/ 20 by swapping world class for average and vice versa.


14 Dec 2017 18:07:59
Dunno why my post didn't get through, but basically, I've never said De Gea isn't world class. I just think Oblak and Buffon are better. Less than a month ago i voted for De Gea as the player I'd take if we could have one player from any Prem team. Buffon came 4th in the Ballon D'or last year. Anybody who thinks he's past it, hasn't watched Juventus enough. There is more to goal keeping than highlight reel saves. Though i accept some people prefer De Gea. That's fair enough.

Average means you are in the middle of your field/ range. Let's be honest, there are worse keepers than Mignolet. Forster, Foster, Hart, Ryan, Lossl, Fabianski, Darlow etc to name a few. There are also better keeper like De Gea, Lloris, Courtois, Ederson, Cech, Pope etc. Mignolet is an average keeper because I'd say a third of the keepers are better, but a third are worse. That puts Mignolet in the middle 3rd alongside the likes of Pickford, Begovic, Gomes etc. The keepers for bottom dwelling clubs tend to make errors every week so they probably cost more like 30 points a season. At least Mignolet has the occasional week without error. He has improved massively, but it says it all that he's come on so much and is still just a run of the mill keeper. We needs keeper to take us to the next level.

Goalkeeper is the hardest position in football because your mistakes usually cost points. That is the reality of it to be honest. The best keepers just make less mistakes than others.


{Ed025's Note - for me MK de,gea is better than both oblak and buffon, but as you say it all about opinions..

14 Dec 2017 18:08:08
So if we get 76 points this season, you are saying if we swapped keepers we would get 96 points?

There are too many people on here in total dreamland. You are forgetting that there are many other players in the squad not upto standard.

Hendo 5 points
Lovren 10 points
gk 20 points
mane missed chances 15 points
carra own goals 6 points

in your logic we should get 180 points a season.


14 Dec 2017 19:20:37
I understand your point Mark, but that is why goal keeper is the most important position on the pitch. Because it is the one position where a good or bad player can literally be the difference between winning the league or finishing 5th. It is an absolutely vital position. Anyone else makes a mistake and you there are 9 other outfield players to potentially bale them out. Goalkeeper is the last line of defence though. You can't afford mistakes there. Being a keeper is all about concentration, organisation, positioning and decision making. If you have to launch into a flying save it might look spectacular but it usually means you were out of position, or the shot was absolutely perfect.

Ferguson knew that a good keeper was worth an extra 15-20 points a season. That's why he was so successful. It was always his priority position.


14 Dec 2017 18:24:51
Ed025 agree De Gea is best in the world for me. Makes hardly any mistakes and is mentally as strong as steel. He didn't spit his dummy out when he didn't go the Real. He just kept producing great performances even when he knew his team weren't going to win anything. World class.


{Ed025's Note - its hard to argue otherwise mark, i really believe that utd would be mid table without his saves mate..

14 Dec 2017 20:10:21
I agree with you there Ed025.

De Gea has conceded 11 goals from 76 shots against him.

In contrast, Mignolet has conceded 20 goals in 46 shots.

United concede so many chances. De Gea bails them out so much. He's easily worth 20+ points a season to them.


{Ed025's Note - he is MK and thats the only reason why united are in the top 4, also city,s keeper is making a massive difference as well, a good cat makes all the difference mate and is a massive liverpool downfall..

14 Dec 2017 20:37:25
Ed025 a top goalie helps us no doubt but we would still be a long long way from winning the league. We have many other players who are not good enough as you well know mate.

The players need to get their act together asap or the OTT posters on here will be saying in a month - oh it's ok we are only 6 points from 4th and 24 points from the top.


{Ed025's Note - some will say that a top keeper instills confidence in his defence mark which would solve a lot of liverpools problems mate..

14 Dec 2017 20:51:20
It is by far the most important position for me, Ed. Not only can it help everyone to relax defensively, it also takes pressure off the forwards. When you go into games feeling like you need to score 3, it is much harder than knowing if you get 1, you have a keeper and a defence who can hold on to a slender lead.

That stuff can't really be measured, but you can measure that De Gea conceded 1 in 7 shots and Mignolet concedes 1 in 2!


{Ed025's Note - i agree mate..

14 Dec 2017 21:13:54
MK is spot on. Ed25, I agree that a top GK helps a lot as DDG is like you, the only reason Utd are in the top 4 cos w/ o him, heaven knows where they would be. Just check the B'mouth game last night where B'mouth had so many chances BUT DDG was there to save them until Lukaku scored. Had they had Migs, Utd would have lost.

Having said that, all the top GK's are taken right now so we have to build our own and Karius (who I am a huge fan of) has all the tools to be a top GK in a Klopp system as he was highly rated in Germany before he came to us. All he needs is experience at this level cos the top ones were not born top GK's. They had to learn like everyone else. The question is that do some of our fans have the patience to persevere with him and that is my biggest fear judging by the way they shamelessly turned on him for making a mistake or two.

As for his comparison to Migs, it is very simple. Karius has made ONE mistake that led to a goal this season (at Spartak) . Migs made THREE mistakes in one game at LC. Job done!


14 Dec 2017 22:03:14
In my house if anything goes wrong. We call it a mignolet moment.

Karious for me all day. however, I really would like us to break the bank for a worldy keeper. ready made quality. the difference it would make. Not just shot stopping, but organisation wise too.


14 Dec 2017 23:20:39
MK one problem with the goals conceded from shots stat, it shows nothing of value without the context. One keeper could save 90/ 100 but actually every single shot was straight at him. So he conceded 10 he shouldn't have. Another could save 70/ 100 but in fact only 50 were standard saves he is expected to make.

That isn't to say that the context wouldn't prove the point but that it is the context and not the numbers that would prove it. Stats alone never really show an individual player's performance.


15 Dec 2017 09:03:31
It was a while ago MK but don't you remember a debate you and I had about him, and stated that he was world class and (I'm paraphrasing) you said he was a very good keeper but no way was he world class. Your on here quite a lot MK so probably don't remember it, so I'll let you off 😂😂. I agree by the way that mignolet should be replaced by karius, but long term I don't think he's the answer, hope I'm proved wrong though.


15 Dec 2017 09:07:52
The only issue i have with MK's argument is it is unfair to blame Migs totally. Where does the 'this error cost us a point' line start? Yes, when Mig's got lobbed recently, he was in the wrong. But how far do you go back? Was there a misplaced pass 5 minutes earlier that turned possession over by someone in midfield? Does that not shift blame to them? I agree MK that Migs is average and does cost us points, but it is impossible to put a number on it and also unfair.


16 Dec 2017 23:41:50
Stuie that is part of the problem of whether people understand what they're watching. Why so many coaches keep trying to say it isn't just defenders who defend. Mignolet isn't a top 4 keeper but some of our other players don't always perform like top 4 players and when they don't we don't.


Dominic Solanke - An Initial Assessment

14 Dec 2017 08:37:27
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Dominic Solanke - An Initial Assessment

Believable3 Unbelievable0

14 Dec 2017 09:43:24
Great Assessment Ed, I think he has everything it takes to go on to be a big player for us in years to come. You do not win the accolades he has at a young age if you are not the business. Had no issue with him starting against Everton, and I think against the likes of those teams who will sit back against us he could be the answer.
I Hope he can find the back of the net sooner rather than later as it will be great for his confidence and hopefully fans won't get on his back like they did with Origi who I still think haven't given up on.


{Ed001's Note - it was MKS mate.}

14 Dec 2017 09:58:26
Spot on, Cy. Solanke and Origi are the future for LFC at CF and I have no issue with him and the games he has played. Actually, he's been unlucky to not have scored as he hit the post vs Burnley and had a goal disallowed last night (I saw the exact same goal given to Arsenal last season vs Burnley and Hull) while Origi is to me STILL the real deal as his talent and potential is obvious. Those getting on their backs really need to give over, really.


14 Dec 2017 09:58:55
Nice post Adam, only criticism would be you should have expanded the post to be an assessment of all our summer signings, that’s what it looked like it was going to be when you read the first paragraph.


14 Dec 2017 10:16:23
Hi Mikey, if you're interested i could make it into a short series? It would've been a bit long doing all 4 at once but I'll happily do them all separately if you would like.

Thanks for reading and for feedback guys.


14 Dec 2017 11:56:34
To be honest MK i really enjoy reading your articles so id be happy to read them if your doing a series. Or even if you want to choose your own series like Ed001 has done with the legends list or the history of Liverpool managers list. But you should definitely be doing articles on a regular basis as its some of the best content on the site mate.


14 Dec 2017 14:29:59
Wow, that is high praise Scarry Houser. I really appreciate that. Thank you mate. I will assume from the thumbs up that people would be interested in an initial assessment on the other 3 signings so I'll crack on with them when i get the chance.

I would definitely be up for a series though. I'll brainstorm some ideas.


14 Dec 2017 20:41:11
MK you really have to be applauded for the effort that you put into some of your posts. Even if people don't agree with some of them, no one can argue agains't the time it must take.


14 Dec 2017 21:47:23
Cheers Mark. I never got around to commenting, but you put a brilliant post on the rumours page the other day! I did give it a thumbs up.


14 Dec 2017 07:24:33
Last night started with klopps press conference before the Derby, he played right into the media's hands when they pushed him about Henderson not playing in the spartak game.

Instead of pouring water on that line of questioning he got prickly about it and told everyone that Henderson would be playing on the Sunday, I feel this influenced his team decision (if I can drop the captain, look I can drop these two as well! ) he was played by the media which subsequently led to the furore of his team selection before and after the game.

Then came the result on Sunday which created all the wrong headlines and unnecessary pressure leading into last night's game, pressure on klopp translates to the players which gives you last night's result and performance. Let's hope klopp has learned from this and is more guarded in the future.

Believable7 Unbelievable14

14 Dec 2017 08:53:58
Or maybe he knows that there is a busy Christmas period coming up and knows he can't play the same 11 in every game and rested a few players accordingly? Seems logical to me!


14 Dec 2017 08:59:32
He doesn't seem to be handling the pressure very well at the minute all this "you blame me" and "this is my life" stuff. It's like someone's held a gun to his head and forced him to take the job. He does put too much pressure on himself with his comments "if I'm here 4 years we will win at least one title". That's looking a long way off at the minute.


14 Dec 2017 09:05:22
You are wavering Ron! Have you lost your mojo? Its not like you to be so down beat!


14 Dec 2017 09:33:54
I agree. Recently the pressure looks like it's getting to Klopp, he seems far more uptight and agitated.


14 Dec 2017 10:47:16
Can you blame him seriously? He rotated and won 3 4 games nothing said. Yet minute players throw game they should have win away everyone suddenly saying oh it's rotation! They gave him grief for taking Salah off as precaution of his best player coming into busy period and having slight injury. Yet in disbelief am reading today he's getting a hard time for leaving Salah on last night as he looked tired! I honestly am at a loss.


14 Dec 2017 11:05:33
I agree Coco. It’s absolutely ridiculous. He rested players against Chelsea and Everton and but for a freak goal and a woeful refereeing decision not to mention Mane and Salah missing sitters we would’ve won both games! How can that be down to rotation? Then he plays the Fab 4 last night and we don’t score so he should’ve changed it! If I was him I’d seriously be thinking of Bayern at the end of the season because he just can’t do right for doing wrong with some of our idiot fans.


14 Dec 2017 11:20:03
Chucking away the HOME derby, like I believe he did, is obe of the worst errors a manager can do in my eyes. Going to take a while for me to get over that.


14 Dec 2017 11:56:16
Waro, you are making 2 and 2 out to be 5, IMO. He saying Hendo would play vs Everton has nothing to do with the media playing him. The fact that some of our own fans hate the captain. is what should outrage you. It was these fans that started this farce about the captain not playing, means he is crap.

Pep does not play Kompany due to his injuries BUT no one says a thing cos well, it is not relevant as he is managing his fitness and so is Kopp with Hendo. But it's an issue cos well, it's Hendo. It is the pathetic media narrative that the captain. must play when fit that is the issue and you are falling for it. He defended his captain and Hendo played well IMO vs Everton. Coaches defend players and captains all the time so what changed? Cos Klopp did it? Nothing to see there and we move on, IMO.


14 Dec 2017 11:57:32
Don't know where you have read people criticising him about salah last night ings, I've not seen that!

You're being a little blinkered here, klopp got it wrong v Chelsea as well by the way, there's nothing wrong with squad rotation but not in massive games, he plays the same team as the previous weds on the Sunday and imo were 3 up at half time against Everton because they didn't defend particularly well, take your two players off there at half time when the game is won, ditto the Spartak game.

I love klopp and hope he's hear for many years, but he's been a smart arse a few times this season and his interview after the Derby showed he knew himself he'd got his selections wrong, we've had worse decisions go against us than that since he took the job and was always pragmatic with his interviews, but his reaction suggested he knew he'd messed up and his subsequent apology at the end of the interview showed he knew he'd lost control. Saying he should go to bayern is a similar dummy spitting reaction and shows a lack of class.


14 Dec 2017 12:07:23
Ron, if we as fans are frustrated as heck over the past two games (where we did not lose, btw) why would you think the manager won't be? All managers are like that as it was the fine margins that did not get us two wins i both games and we all are livid. Klopp is emotional and lives games w/ his players and the fans which is why majority of us love him. He sees the players everyday and how much they try so he is not only frustrated for them. He is for he rest of us as well. Pressure is secondary as it is part of the job.

Wenger and Mou for ex., do not hide their frustration very well at times esp. Wenger who just starts insulting the journalists and calls them all types of names. Pressure is everywhere in the PL and there is nothing wrong with Klopp getting frustrated cos well, all managers are COS of the pressure. You're losing your mojo mate. I feed off your optimism here.


14 Dec 2017 12:57:19
I thought Klopp understood the fans but the derby error shows I was mistaken. If you don't pick your strongest team in the Merseyside Derby then you'd better hope you win otherwise you've upset the fans for the season.

That's my take on it, happy to accept if I'm on my own with it though.


14 Dec 2017 13:53:59
First off, the Chelsea game; Klopp got it bang on, which is why we were beating the reigning champions with 5 minutes to go before Mignolet made the worst goal keeping error I've seen this season. Klopp's only mistake is continuing to pick Mignolet which he only does because fans bullied Karius out of the team. The rotation worked perfectly and our freshness saw us outplay Chelsea comfortably.

Onto the Everton game, Klopp picked the best team he had available. Klavan played because Matip was injured, Robertson played because Moreno was injured, Chamberlain played because Coutinho was ill, and Solanke played because Firmino was suffering from fatigue. No surprise considering he has been involved in every game except the League Cup this season, and had to be subbed vs Spartak because he looked shattered. Henderson is captain and first choice, like it or lump it. Klopp made that clear in his interviews. Can, despite his support on here, is nowhere near as good as Henderson. He is positionally inept, over plays it, and at times you can tell he wants to leave. Milner played but I'd assume that was because Gini has been terrible this season and Lallana is still injured. Some may prefer Can, but Milner had just come off the back of 3 assists against Spartak, and he presses the ball better than Can does. I expect Lallana would've been in the team instead if fit. Klopp picked the best team he had available for the derby and but for some bad decisions by both our forwards and the referee, we'd have won.

Klopp's only error in all of this is not signing a centre back in the summer, and refusing to drop Mignolet. People are literally making up reasons to moan though, instead of focusing on the actual problems at hand. If the rotation is so bad, why are we unbeaten in 11 games since we started doing it? That is the longest unbeaten run of any other English side right now, as Man City lost in the Champions League a week ago.

Why is the glass half empty for so many on here? We're joint 4th and we're playing in the last 16 in Europe for the first time since 08/ 09. Some people will never be happy. Ron, what has happened to you? 😭 you're usually so upbeat. A draw is still a point gained and it keeps the tally ticking over even when we're in bad form. Keep calm and carry on.


14 Dec 2017 14:43:18
To me Can os a overall better cm than Hendo is, i have nothing against Henderson, and i love his mentality/ workrate but Can has better pace on the ball, better shooter, much more physical and i also believe he is going to get better, while Hendo is clearly not getting any better.


14 Dec 2017 15:28:39
Not sure why your bringing another player and another team into it Brover? People have there opinion on players and I've learned to accept that over the years whether I agree with them or not. I believe klopp handled the pre derby press conference poorly, it has nothing to do with what game Henderson played in or not, there is a time for rotation and Chelsea and Sunday were not the correct times to do it, Sunday in particular because the furore it caused had a knock on effect to last night imo, and that's all it is, my opinion and I'm not trying to pass it off as fact and I'm not calling people idiots the way another poster just has, the only positive is that there are plenty of opportunities to put this right and hopefully we do. You need to learn from your mistakes, again hopefully we do.


14 Dec 2017 15:47:12
MK your really think klopp took karius out of the team because of fan pressure, your insinuating that the fans pick the team? Wow, that's a bigger insult to klopp than anything I've read on here. Karius was taken out of the limelight for his own sake as he was rivaling mignolet for incompetence, which looks to be a decent decision as he seems to have improved being eased back into the team. I'd say that with a full strength team we would have won that day, but that's just conjecture.

Were are you getting this information from about the team picked for the Derby? Because everything you have just said about firmino fatigued couthiho illness? I saw none of this mentioned before the game and seems a convenient excuse after it, just like the salah niggle hence the substitution when he had Martina on toast all game yet still played against West brom, coutinho didn't look to Ill in the tunnel after the game were he was kicking a door in frustration at the result, and your view on Can and Henderson is bordering on pontificating, you seem to be passing your opinion off as fact.

By the way MK, you can remain unbeaten all season and be relegated so unbeaten in eleven means very little, klopp has many positives and is the right man for the job and will get it right, but he like everyone else in life makes mistakes, it's how you react to mistakes that make you a top manager and I'm sure he will react in the correct manner.


14 Dec 2017 16:10:24
MK

Karius was taken out an year ago and you still think he is not ready to face the light? Lol! How about Can ( he has been on the receiving end of abuses form a long time and still keeps his place ) . Karius was taken our coz he was crap in the beginning! If the manager picks a team baased on couple of Facebook post then dear o dear!


{Ed001's Note - he was not crap unlike your support of our team.}

14 Dec 2017 16:40:16
Why is the glass currently half empty?
We've just drawn the Anfield derby against a team in absolute turmoil whilst we came off a 7-0 win.
If that wasn't disappointing enough we threw it away by playing a weakened team. Seriously? A weakened team in the derby? Never would have happened in the past.
So people come out and say well he's done that to keep the players fresh. Then we watch one of the most stale abject performances at home against a team which hasn't won for 16 matches and fail to score against them.
We're out of the league cup. We're miles behind in the league. So we're looking at FA cup or champions league win. FA cup we play Everton (hmmm not quite as confident now) and champions league needs a huge slice of luck to win.


14 Dec 2017 16:51:25
Can't believe people are comparing Klopp with Pep.
Pep's team are 18 points ahead of us after 17 games and thrashed us in the league.
Pep's team has just set a new record of 15 wins in a row.
They are top scorers in the league and have a monster goal difference. They are accelerating away from us.
They are in 4 tournaments still.

If Pep wants to drop Kompany, he has a lot of credit in the bank before anyone can criticise him.

He has also just won a derby, away from home 🤔.


14 Dec 2017 18:35:49
Ron Keague welcome to th real world. Hopefully some of the others will join it soon.


14 Dec 2017 19:48:50
Sorry fellas but for me Klopp’s error came at 3 and 4 nil v Spartak when instead of resting 2 out of Coutinho, Bobby or Mane ready for the Derby he took off Lovren? Fat lot of good that did as resting him made not a jot of difference to his concentration.
Then he got suckered into the “only play home grown in the Derby” BS and it cost us. You are not telling me that Bobby and Coutinho can’t take care of themselves in a Merseyside Derby against a pitiful Everton side that didn’t lay a glove on us in the first half.
It should have been the team that started last night get 3-0 up and then rest players for Tuesday. Last night would have suited UK players better as it was a physical game, Solanke and Ox contributions showed that. Can and Gini were awful and the pace of our play was dreadful.
We now need a winning Christmas period or we will be way off 2nd and 3rd by mid Jan.
Will be intrigued to see who starts in the FA Cup now.


14 Dec 2017 21:39:17
Spot on, MK. Sono, Firmino is suffering from fatigue as he an Salah play all the games. Cou had a knock after the Spartak game and had not trained since that Wed before the derby while Moreno was injured. With this in mind, how on earth could Klopp had played his first team vs Everton?

You guys seem to forget that lack of rotation cost us in Dec. -Feb of last season and Klopp is trying to change that and avoid this happening BUT all goes to crap suddenly cos we did not win a derby vs Everton where we were should have won handily with the team he fielded considering the injuries on the table. Yet all the points we had picked up prior (!4 out of 18) came from the same rotation policy.
As for WBA, we played our best team YET we were not good enough as we were disjointed in attack so again, cos you play your full team does not mean you will win. Let the manager do his job cos footie is not an exact science.


14 Dec 2017 21:45:57
Ron, everyone is miles behind City so not too bothered about that. Our boys were not good enough vs WBA and no one is defending that either. If you wanna compare us to City, good luck with that as you will be disapointed everyday as they are on another Solar System compared to EVERYONE else in the PL and not just us.

Our only issue is that people should stop blaming the rotation cos Klopp told us before hand that he would do that and by and large, it has worked (18 points from 24) and tho it is frustrating to not win games you should, that does not mean the rotation does not work. You cannot say that a system is great when it is working and then turn on it cos you did not win a game or two. IMO, that makes no sense.

If it was not and we had no success then I would agree. I don't as the nos, show it is working and not winning a derby or fluffing our line vs WBA, does not change any of these facts. God bless, my friend.


14 Dec 2017 23:17:14
Welcome to the real world Ron, A place where you are certain to receive stick from posters lol! I can’t belive people are crediting Pep now!


15 Dec 2017 00:03:18
For me there is "rotation" which Rafa used to do - changed his line-up 99 matches in a row- and then there is 6 changes for a derby match from a team which won 7-0.
One was expected - Karius, one was enforced - Moreno, but that still leave 4 changes out of 9 positions. That's excessive, unnecessary and ultimately counter-productive.

We fell apart last season because we lost our best player - Mane - who was the player with pace to unlock defences.


15 Dec 2017 09:04:26
Waro, no one called you names or anything like that, mate and nowhere in mky post did I project your opinion as fact. You gave your opinion, I disagreed with it and that is all. You are free to give your opinion as I am free to critique it. You say Klopp should have picked this or that player for this or that game. Neither you nor I can say that in any way possible w/ o having the info Klopp has about the players' fitness levels during the busy period.

Klopp said he is rotating and has been rotating for weeks now and we have been globally successful at it as one fluke goal and one dodgy penalty does not change the fact that we have taken more points since the Spurs debacle than any other PL team bar City. If you thought he would not rotate then that is you did that on your own as he told us all he would during this period.

You say he should play his best lineup in the derby and we should have won. Well, we were close to winning the derby w/ o our best 11 than we were vs WBA with our first 11. See how that is? Footie is not an exact science. Before the the derby, Cou had a knock (had not trained since the Spartak game) Moreno was injured and Bobbie is suffering form fatigue so with that in mind, there was NO WAY on earth Klopp would play his best team. The team he put out where one dodgy pen/ a second goal away from winning the derby so I don't see this innuendo you keep referring to as all I have posted are facts.


15 Dec 2017 10:21:48
I have a question BRover:

If Firmino is "suffering from fatigue" why did he play 72 minutes against Spartak Moscow when we were 5-0 up after 50 minutes in a game we needed to draw?
In addition, if he's too fatigued to start against Everton, why bring him on when Everton score when he's likely to over commit, and why start him against West Brom at home - a team that hasn't won for 16 matches in a row.

There's no logic to these decisions.


15 Dec 2017 22:53:16
Ron, those are the questions that you address to the manager as he is with the players and the preparation team and he has all the info on their fitness levels and how long they can play for if they are having fitness issues. You don't have that info and neither do I so asking such questions is pointless as I am not the manager. I do understand that you cannot draw conclusions based on information you do NOT have. All you can do is speculate which in the end, is not fact. Now that, is logical.


14 Dec 2017 03:09:15
Sounds like I made the right decision to go see the new Star Wars film instead of watching us fail to break down WBA. That's Pardew and Fat Scam who's had points off us at home this season. Worrying trend. But there's a long way to go.

Believable4 Unbelievable8

14 Dec 2017 04:15:14
We won’t break Burnley either!


14 Dec 2017 11:06:17
Harry 🙄.


 
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