Liverpool Banter Archive November 13 2015

13 Nov 2015 18:22:44
I'm really confused about people's opinion on Benteke's start to his Liverpool career. If I was told in the summer he'd have 4 goals from 9 appearances (and some of them from the bench) I'd have bitten your hand off. He came on and changed the Southampton and Chelsea, he scored a worldie against United and he was unlucky not to score against Arsenal. Some of the fans really need to stop giving out about players and get behind them and support them!
YNWA.

13 Nov 2015 19:39:36
Totally agree.

13 Nov 2015 19:41:24
I think people especially those who never wanted him, are just whining for no reason. Granted he can do better BUT so can every single other player on the team so don`t know why he`s been singled out for criticism.

13 Nov 2015 22:19:58
He is scoring goals and i am happy about that - but i always expected that he would do so. But there are times where i want to see him put in more effort, work harder. Hopefully he will learn because he really have it all to be a very big player for us.

13 Nov 2015 22:53:35
I like him, I think he's a great player, uses his body well, wins headers, brings others into play. Years ago we said we need a plan b, but I think the problem people have with benteke is he is our plan A. So is the the best option for how we want to play?

14 Nov 2015 02:31:26
I think Lucas is more tactically aware than Henderson. And would be better if Lucas shout out to henderson to carry orders rather than other way. Of because lucas is not box yo box so henderson could be the executor while Lucas the brains. problem with lucas is he is too nice a guy. He needs to be more keano.

14 Nov 2015 02:50:16
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Every second post on here is an Ode to Benteke. See your post. And the previous thread/post. And the one before that. etc.

14 Nov 2015 06:25:10
Benteke is good and going to be even better!

14 Nov 2015 12:37:28
He's not a player I wanted, He's doing fine though, I still don't think he suits Klopp's style of football, as he's still a bit lazy, I hope that can be worked on especially if he sees Couts, Firm and Studge press and run and harry. His first touch is still lacking, but he's getting a goal a game roughly. 9 matches and being in and out of injury isn't anywhere near enough time to make a judgement so whereas I wouldn't complain, I also wouldn't scream and rave about him either.

16 Nov 2015 10:54:43
I think people have a problem with Benteke because he is not the ultra mobile type of player if the ball comes to him in the box he has a good chance of scoring, but he does not appear to try to get the ball if it more than 10 feet away from him. He could try harder.

13 Nov 2015 15:27:34
Eds, if it's not Karius or Zieler, what keeper are we interested in? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

13 Nov 2015 16:09:50
Patricio.

13 Nov 2015 16:22:00
Rui Patricio has been looked at, per Ed02.

13 Nov 2015 08:05:06
Hi Ed,
I was wonderining what would be your honest assesment on Hendo? How do you rate him as a player? Would he be able to get into any other top 4 sides? Personally, I think Hendo and Lucas brings more to the team, then people actually thinks of!

Cheers!

{Ed001's Note - I love Hendo, he has more quality than most people see, as they just see the energy. He can play the big crossfield passes Gerrard was famous for, he has the vision to spot when they are on as well. His workrate is exceptional, his technique is excellent, far better than he is ever given credit for. He chooses to avoid being flashy, in exchange for being effective, rather than because he is incapable of the flicks and tricks. The main issue he has is that he does not score enough goals, he weighs in with a few, but he does need to score more.

As for getting into any of the other top four sides, depends on what you mean by that really? He is a far better player than Delph, who Man City paid a lot for, offers more than Yaya Toure can be bothered to most weeks, and is, imo better than Fernandinho and Fernando, so he could get in their side. Man Utd have Herrera who is a very similar player, they just don't really need him, though he is arguably better. Chelsea lack in the midfield right now, he would be an ideal partner for Matic, a major step up from Ramires or Fabregas in that role. Arsenal are another team that don't really need him, as they have Ramsey, who is very similar, and probably a better player when both are at their best.}

13 Nov 2015 09:05:00
Cheers Ed!
Yeah I was talking about whether he would get into Top side's starting eleven and I got the answer. Do you see him taking that extra strides to be one of the best?

{Ed001's Note - if he can avoid major injuries, yes. He works extremely hard in training on his game and listens to his coaches. When things go badly for him, he just knuckles down and works harder to try and improve. That is the kind of attitude that takes a player far.}

13 Nov 2015 09:07:33
I agree with u there . Think he lacks the ability to dictate the play . Set the tone and control. Almost like he's on a leash chomping . Think he's brilliant at advancing into space, and when we stretch play he runs into space all day long and adds to the offensive aspect assist / goal, don't think he's suited for a dm role .

13 Nov 2015 09:11:22
If he scored a few more goals he level would be more recognisable if that wakes sense . Quality player who we are missing!

13 Nov 2015 09:28:34
exactly why we are missing him. he may not be that flashy, but he is effective.

13 Nov 2015 11:50:11
His attitude has been proven when he was close to being sold, thought "f' off - I'll show you" and turned into an un-missable part of our side

I remember when he first signed, people ripped the p*$$ out of me when I stated he would be Gerrard successor and future LFC captain, the bloke is pure class.

13 Nov 2015 12:25:48
Hendo is a beast and can only see him doing even better when he is back and playng under Klopp. Under rated midfielder with a sparkling attitude and a ton of quality - if he can learn to put his laces through it when it matters he'll be a game changer week in week out.

13 Nov 2015 12:31:31
He's been excellent for us. Seems a very humble and grounded guy too.

13 Nov 2015 08:36:45
Henderson doesn't score enough goals and by his nature he should be hitting few regulary.
If I am right Klopp wopuld tie him down alongisde Lucas as a typical CM, That would rule out goals but would open up his technical ability to control and dicate the game.

Chelsea and City, Both would love to have him.

I have always said this and would stick to it, He is not a typical playmaker nor famous for his excellent passing abilites like Pjanic or Modric. Henderson is a very differnt player very similar to Vidal or Gundagaon.

I would rather buy a Playmaker and relseas Henderson further forward. very similar to what Gerrard did back in 2008/09.

Nice post mate.

13 Nov 2015 09:24:01
Henderson is a decent player. Agree with 5ive. He is not a playmaker and not a typical CM who dictates and control the game. Henderson is very similar to Vidal and Gundagaon. I would play him as the advance midfielder in the team and not the typical CM.

He would definitely get into Chelsea ahead of Ramirez.

13 Nov 2015 13:18:10
Henderson a step up on Fabregas? Ooopppsss.

13 Nov 2015 13:26:13
Hendo is brilliant. I hope he gets back to training soon. I am pretty sure under Klopp he will become even better. Just needs some confidence and the goals will flow .

13 Nov 2015 13:53:51
Yes TOT66 he is more effective then Cesc. Never seen a more overrated player ever. Near useless once you nullify him.

13 Nov 2015 14:00:28
dilakh2
Fabregas:

"Near useless once you nullify him"

that's the same with all players, its the point of nullifying them!

13 Nov 2015 14:43:54
dilakh2,

Fabregas:

FA Cup
La Liga
Copa Del Rey
UEFA Super Cup
World Club Cup
Premiership
League cup
World Cup
2 Euro Championships

Henderson:

League Cup
Got on the FIFA 2016 cover.

{Ed001's Note - and your point is that you are one of those who can't judge a player except by his trophies? John O'Shea must be world class then.....

This is idiotic. Fabregas is nothing like as good as people make out, he is lazy and has no defensive awareness at all. Hendo is a better player, if you can't see that, then it just shows how little you know about the game.}

13 Nov 2015 14:49:26
Hendo should be a role model and example to aspiring young players as to what can be achieved by true hardwork, dedicatio, work ethic and will to win. The boy was close to being sold but didn`t complain nor bleat on. He just put his head down and did the hard graft necessary to the point of being capt. and a player we desperately need. He may not be as naturally skilled as Ramsey, Pjanic or Modric (who I love) but as Ed said, he lacks next to nothing bar adding more goals to his game. He will only improve under a very competent manager like Klopp.

13 Nov 2015 15:02:55
The thing that frustrates me with Henderson and why i think people say he cannot dictate a midfield is the fact that he is very reluctant to receive the ball on the half turn unless he's in 20 yards of space. The amount of times I've seen him pick up the ball from defence for example and I'm shouting at the tv screen saying "turn! " where instead he'll just pass it back to where it came from or play a negative pass which totally kills the momentum and allows the oppostion to get back in shape. I do rate him though but I think that is one of the key areas he needs to improve.

13 Nov 2015 15:05:33
Hendo is top draw. Ill admit when we first bought him i wasnt his biggest fan but he put his head down and slowly turned into a beast! He makes a good captain and i agree with some of the other lads maybe not the typical play maker. But he can spot passes and score some goals and i'm sure Klopp will want him to add more to his tally. I have to admit it would of been nice to have Jonjo and Hendo playing side by side. I rate both them highly. I think Jonjo and hendo first coming in had a hard time, but both have grown into top players. But credit to Hendo i can't wait for him to come back i think he will do well under Klopp!

13 Nov 2015 15:46:50
Yeah good one Ed001, guess everyone at Barcelona knows nothing about football as well then? Santi Cazorla is quite poor on defensive awareness too so does that mean that Henderson is better than him as well.

I like Henderson but you could never convince me that he is a better footballer than Fabregas.

{Ed001's Note - are you really this simple? Or are you making a special effort to act the fool today? Barcelona discovered he wasn't worth keeping did they not? What has Santi Cazorla got to do with anything? Your last sentence says everything about you, you will never learn anything because you are already decided on your opinion, pointless discussing anything with a closed minded person.}

13 Nov 2015 16:19:05
Cazorla point was made to show that a lack of defensive awareness doesn't make a bad midfielder there are lots of players that are only really effective in an attacking sense.

I was under the impression from reading the Barcelona pages that the main reason Fabregas was made available was because of a necessity to raise funds to bring in players before the embargo (I assume that the laziness you mentioned earlier contributed to this) .

And no Ed I was not making any special effort to act the fool I guess it just comes naturally but there was no offence intended and my apologies if some was caused.

{Ed001's Note - I never said that lacking defensive awareness made a bad midfielder, I said that it was a weakness in Fabregas's game. For a player playing deep and defending, if you are not putting in work and have no defensive awareness, then you end up getting overrun by the opposition, as we have seen happen to Chelsea time and time again. Cazorla is not the most defensively aware, but he works hard to ensure he gets back and helps out, while Fabregas does not. That is a massive difference.

Barcelona needed to sell to raise funds, correct, but they could have sold other players, the reason they chose him was because of his attitude. He was hated by the fans and his recent comments about liking Real Madrid and would be happy to play for them has certainly not improved that situation!

Fabregas, for some reason, is one of those players that gets fawned over by the media. He has good vision and passing but the rest of his game is amateur league stuff. He struts about like a peacock, offering nothing when his passing is off or there is no players offering themselves to him. He needs to make an effort, because his talent is just wasted on him. Henderson makes a difference every game he plays, that is why he is a far better player.}

13 Nov 2015 16:27:11
TOT (prolly a Spurs fan), no one mentioned SantiCarzola but you on this thread so only you can tell us where you got that from. As for Fabregas, he was got shot of by Barcelona because he couldn`t get a game and wasn`t good enuff for wht they were trying to do. For right now, he is NOT better than because he doesn`t work hard enuff and is quite poor defensively, two of the reasons he got the boot at Barca.

13 Nov 2015 16:47:38
Ed001 i never thought hendo was captain material.

{Ed001's Note - he was England U21 captain for a while.}

13 Nov 2015 17:01:52
Ed001 i don't get to watch as much football as i would like as i work evenings and weekends. but when i have seen carzola he allways seems to work hard for the team. Something i think they brought up in punditry month or two back. maybe he wasnt as much when he first moved here. And yes fab is a lazy arse. i'm not sure tott is actually watching football ey. maybe playing too much fifa.

{Ed001's Note - I really like the player Cazorla has become, shame Fabregas doesn't have his attitude really.}

13 Nov 2015 17:34:18
IMO the Fabregas we saw playing for Arsenal was a great little player but Arsene utilised him differently as he was allowed more freedom to attack and Arsenals 1 or 2 touch football at the time suited him. Chelsea's Fabragas has a lot more defensive responsibility plus he's expected to dictate the midfield. I honestly thought he would be awesome for Chelsea but he's been a massive let down as far as I'm concerned. I'd take Hendo over Fabregas all day long. If he had a name like Hendinio he'd probably be in the cover of FIFA. oh wait!

13 Nov 2015 19:27:32
The best descriptioon for Henderson is 'Efficient. Frighteningly efficient. '

He is grossly underrated by people. He is still 3-5 years off his peak and is going to continue to improve. In a couple of years time our big problem will be hanging in to him.

13 Nov 2015 19:49:57
Red Lenin, it will mean that we have to remain competitive for us to keep hold of our best players.

13 Nov 2015 21:43:43
I do agree that the Arsenal Fabregas was something quite special. But the Barca/Chelsea cesc pales in comparison. I am hoping that this is what the poster meant by cesc is better. Probably was a better player than Hendo in his Arsenal days. But h was way more attacking, scored and assisted a lot more, but in saying that, Wenger seemingly utilised him differently than other managers.

So, ed. What do you reckon of the Arsenal version of Cesc in comparison to Hendo?

{Ed002's Note - He was a 37.}

14 Nov 2015 00:54:10
i loved watching fabby at arsenal and thought he was quality. Then he went to Barcelona and he just went down hill for me. Didn't live up to the hype at all and i started to dislike him then he's at chelski and great passer when on point but other than that doesn't really do anything and very lazy on the pitch.

13 Nov 2015 21:56:46
Ed001 you said . "Hendo is a better player, if you can't see that, then it just shows how little you know about the game"
Can I just say football is all about opinions. Just because someone disagrees with you that Henderson is a better player than fabregas doesn't show how little they know about the game.

{Ed001's Note - if you say so.}

13 Nov 2015 21:43:43
I do agree that the Arsenal Fabregas was something quite special. But the Barca/Chelsea cesc pales in comparison. I am hoping that this is what the poster meant by cesc is better. Probably was a better player than Hendo in his Arsenal days. But h was way more attacking, scored and assisted a lot more, but in saying that, Wenger seemingly utilised him differently than other managers.

So, ed. What do you reckon of the Arsenal version of Cesc in comparison to Hendo?

{Ed001's Note - totally different players, but I still wouldn't have had him in my team, he was lazy, had a bad attitude and Wenger accommodated him. I would rather have the great team player that Hendo is. Fabregas, when he first burst on to the scene, had the potential to be out of this world, but he never applied himself properly. Instead, Wenger made space for him and allowed him to do what he wanted, which is why he has become the half a player he ended up as.}

14 Nov 2015 18:35:21
All it shows is how narrow minded you are. If people don't agree with ed001 then they must be wrong.

{Ed001's Note - if you say so. Narrow minded is judging people on one short convo. Only a complete moron would do that, wouldn't you agree? Almost as much of a moron as the kind of person who posts utter drivel like this really, that just wastes everyone's time and offers nothing to the convo at all. Either go away or offer a post that has some relevance to the convo.}

15 Nov 2015 20:36:43
Henderson is easily one of the most underrated players in the premier league.

13 Nov 2015 05:06:30
Hi eds, just tinking about man utd's martial purchase. Very curious to know how they come uo with 36mil value for him even though he is not proven. But looking at his performance, its a fair value actually. Perhaps liverpool can take a leaf out of how they evaluate player's worth.

{Ed001's Note - not sure what you are getting at there, you want us to pay over the odds for more players just in case we get lucky?}

13 Nov 2015 05:18:18
What i am saying is they seem to be pretty accurate system to gauge martial's value. When it was announced the purchase, they were laughing stock but that ended when this kid start playing. So it seemed to be a accurate and contrarian system to value players.

{Ed001's Note - how so? They just met the asking price, not paid the value they ascribed to him. There is nothing 'accurate' about valuations, it is impossible to be more accurate as everyone ascribes a different value to everything. I really do not understand this nonsense of saying they got one signing right so they must know what they are doing when they overpay. What about all their other signings? Or should we base every judgement on one thing? Maybe we should sack a manager after every defeat?}

13 Nov 2015 05:51:29
How have you come to the conclusion that martial is actually a good signing? what has he done to convince you? for me he goes far too much missing in games.

13 Nov 2015 07:13:26
akshit,

goes missing in games? the lad has been pretty much influencing most games he played, this is backed up with his 5 goals and an assist already, I don't know what more u expect?

there's no doubt we over paid for him and I agree with ed we got lucky he's seemingly turned out to be a good purchase but there's no doubt we rolled the dice with him.

the boy has talent and already at 19 is impacting a team that was lacking.

13 Nov 2015 08:34:12
Where does the 36m£ prize tag come from? Manchester United are paying Monaco 50m €, with another 30m€ in ad ons, 20 of those will most likely be paid of the first season, unless he gets a massive injury keeping him out of the team. I have to say he does look like a really good talent, but he has only 1 season on senior level, so its still early to say how good he will be. Looks like a huge talent though i have to admit. But it is takin transfers to a whole new level.

13 Nov 2015 09:22:52
to you there is no doubt, to me there is a lot of doubt. that's the gist of it. he hasn't done enough of what he can do. for 90 minutes on the pitch he shows a lot of immaturity and non awareness which is obvious for a player his age. yes he is a decent player but saying that you have rolled the dice to no.6 with him is far from correct. he is an investment, whether the returns on it are worth should be decided only after two- three seasons. he will come good, equally likely he might just not. i don't deny his quality but is he using it to obvious effect, i cannot say. the lad has done one enough to suggest he is good signing but not enough to suggest he is a breakthrough sort of signing. in three years he might be up there or he might be a zaha. and am not going to discuss how for now he is a very one dimensional player.

13 Nov 2015 09:44:12
I would say to me he has shown he is doing it atm, where as seem to expect more.

the future I can't comment on I can only judge now but to claim he has gone missing is just silly, he has influenced most of the games he has played.

one dimensional? u mean a lad that has come in playing striker and shifted to the left? that's not one dimensional.

13 Nov 2015 10:55:55
People very quickly forget about the hit or miss nature of transfers. And it applies to every team across all leagues and even all sports. For every Cantona, Schmeichel, Van Nistelroy, and Ronaldo that are brought in and were successful, there are the Andersons, the Verons, the Bebes and the Zahas that are failures. So to imply that Manchester United gets it right every time is to look at it incorrectly. And, for me, the price paid for a player, is not the value of the player per se. It's more a price paid for the owning team to let go of the player. There's a very fine difference, but a difference nevertheless.

13 Nov 2015 11:52:00
He is s talent but look at chicarito, he made a massive impact in his first couple of seasons but his value has more than halved and he's just a squad player now. How anyone can say he's worth 36 mil plus add ons ( and looks fair value) because he's scored 5 goals and has a couple of assets is beyond me.

13 Nov 2015 09:25:34
Akshit

Martial is a good player, The only Hindrance is LVG sticking him out wide to accommodate Rooney.
He was fantastic in the U21 for his national team. He had pace and his finishing is lethal.

13 Nov 2015 14:08:59
I didn't say he was worth 36m just pointed out he has not gone missing that much at all, in fact he has been our only shining light in an attack on with its flaws.

13 Nov 2015 15:21:09
I think its way too early to judge Martial. he's been a good player this season but CTR he has also not been effective at times, which is understandable he's only a young lad! I can't remember exactly which game it was he did indeed go missing. Had one easy tap in and fluffed it.

The thing i'm keeping in mind is Di Maria was one of the best players of the la liga then went to Utd, first few games he was quality i know he got injured but you have to question the coaching and tactics in some form. LVG played him as a striker at times if i recall? He's a winger but the season he carried RM at times he was played through the centre no? that's the problem i had with LVG, Di maria might have been deadly through the middle or at least more effective than a back to the goal striker. He wasn't physical enough to go up against big centre halves.

Thats my point Martial has come in good form but can LVG keep it up with him? or rather the coaching and tactics allow him to carry on playing at a good level. The other lad Depay has been poor. But i said before he signed for Utd he has a attitude problem if he doesn't keep his head down he might struggle. NO denying Utd are doing well atm. That said personally feel they have been lucky and playing pretty average football. They are 4th but i'm questioning can they keep in the top 4 playing pretty average football all season.

I think Martial is a good player. Over paid for him i think but none the less if he keeps his head down and LVG doesn't do anything crazy with the lad should carry on doing well. Depy on the other hand i'm not so sure!

13 Nov 2015 15:53:33
gd post Ali, I would agree mate I think the game u were thinkimg was Arsenal away.
that is one game, he was also not so great vs Moscow at OT which is to be expected of a young'un, it was just the comment with absolutely no sustenance from Akshit that made me giggle, to claim he goes missing to much for him to rate him is laughable and clearly shows lack of any knowledge of the sport (if he has actually watched him) .
the lad has influenced many games this season and has goals and assists to back it up to for the stat whores out there.

Depay is a strange case, the lad is not helped with Rooney's movement or lack of it. one thing is for sure he needs time.

13 Nov 2015 18:40:08
If Martial continues to score at the rate he is, avoids injury and stays with Utd for a few years, he has the potential to somewhat justify his price tag.
However, he is young, unknown and unproven long term, he may well turn into a worldie but he could just as easily fall off the boat and wander into European obscurity.
Not fair to say he's worth the money or not yet, really.

13 Nov 2015 18:50:02
that's a fair assessment Welsh boy.

12 Nov 2015 19:16:12
Question eds. with no more long term injuries to key players and the likes of Hendo n sturridge staying fit. Wud u say a top 4 finish is achievable? I definitely believe so. but that it will go right to the wire.

{Ed001's Note - yes.}