Liverpool Banter Archive November 12 2014

12 Nov 2014 20:25:29
Hello eds
When talking about transfer fees are signing on fees included in that number or are they separate? Also if they're separate do they ever get disclosed to the media? Thanks

{Ed002's Note - I try to avoid discussion of finances as football fans are not very bright and they get confused and bump in to stuff.}

Ok thanks eds

13 Nov 2014 06:56:50
Try searching on "super agent". Ed002 did a brilliant breakdown a while back (actually more than once).

13 Nov 2014 12:46:38
Haha classic Ed002, managing to insult the very characteristic that all followers of this website share. But you have to appreciate the humour that comes with it and to be fair Ed you cannot be blamed. I commend you for using such pleasant wording and not putting your true thoughts across to the "vegetables".

Also I was hoping you could give an in depth break down into finances in football (The search function is far too complicated for a football fan, but the intricacies of finance within football are not), tell us when Suarez is due to return and possibly explain to us why it is that Chelsea are to blame for Liverpool's current situation (because they obviously are). Many thanks Ed ;-)

12 Nov 2014 17:40:59
justs like to no who is in charge of our transfer a they have been shocking since BR took over 1st pepe riena goes we get migolet sakko we had agger who we let go for 3m and then to this year buys markovic lambert mario thinK lanalla will b good buy if given play time but i'd stick with what we have got as fifa fair play rule is in breach maybe a goalkeeper think BR as only had 2 good buys sturridge and countino 1 last question do u think lucas should get more game time think he is a smashing DM

12 Nov 2014 18:01:47
Do you have any idea how difficult that is to read? There's a full stop key on your keyboard for a reason.

Anyway, I'd agree we've had some bad transfers and maybe the current committee system could be reviewed. It's particularly hard to see what benefit the £60m Lovren, Lallana, and Markovic cost us has delivered yet. Lallana's the only one who looks the part, SO FAR, and we already had a similar player in Coutinho.

Despite that, though, I don't think we've been left with a poor squad. Apart from right back and goalkeeper I think we generally have enough quality.

12 Nov 2014 18:19:28
I have only just got myself to watch the Chelsea game.
I would say its not just which players, but the type of player we buy.
Chelsea's second goal - we have 7 players in our own area as the Costa strikes the ball and they have 3 - how can we allow him to be free and no-one closes down?
On the Cahill goal, Johnson makes himself as small as possible to not take one off the shot.
I think this is becoming my hobbyhorse, we do not have enough players at present going to put themselves out and take a bad one on behalf of the team- we want every player to be a footballer and not all have qualities to become top LFC players, particularly our back 5.

There was a time last season (Gerrard injured) that everyone thought Lucas, Allen and Henderson was the real deal; Gerrard came back adopted okish to the new role and everyone said Allen was the weak link. wait a month replace with next player.

My main concerns is our fight and "want"; the Chelsea game had their players wanting to get to the ball first; our players seem to have gone from lots of movement to none / we have so many players our side of any of their players (i.e. 4 or 5 which means the opposition have 5 or 6 players to mark with their 10 players) also more players in a particular area reduces the space to move into.

It worked last season; disappointingly Sterling has looked a class above at the top of the diamond / CAM yet he rarely plays there.

I don't want to take much about the new players - some I think will come good others will struggle some we should of known not to buy in the 1st place.

Sakho is a great defender and Lovren needs stability

Hoola is right to some extent. We have no desire and sense of urgency like last year. Players have no idea what they are doing and look like strangers on the pitch. We have players to suit the high press BUT are being told to drop deep and pass the ball around. BR is essing the whole thing (the same thing he built) for God knows what reason and frankly, I don`t see any change even when Studge comes back. I will be happy to bproven wrong, tho.

12 Nov 2014 13:23:41
Hi ED the other ED has said that we are highly unlikely to be buying any new players come this Jan can you confirm that please or have your heard anything different.

Great job ED keep up the good work I know us fans supports must push you guys to your limiest sometimes with us posts lol lol have a good one mate

Bravesun

{Ed002's Note - I have answered this repeatedly - you need to read the posts.}

12 Nov 2014 13:01:34
Hi all, Reds n Eds. I really worry for the team at the moment, and in particular Brendan and the likelhood of him being replaced. Question for the Eds, let's say Brendan goes, how do we attract a 'good' manager without any funds to spend? Also, in your opinion, can the current squad be succesful with right coaching team, and if so, in your opinion what should be the ambition for this squad in terms of league position?

cheers

I still don't believe we have bought a bunch of lemons. A decent manager should be able to take the existing players and rejig the tactics and formations to make the team perform better. Anyone can see that the centre backs are not being played correctly and that Balotelli needs a buddy up front. Our players didn't become poor overnight but they need a new manager to make sure they play to theirs strengths

13 Nov 2014 08:08:51
Salvaging our season, if anything, will require sacrificing some players who aren't performing for the moment rather than buying more. All we need to do is not worry about who we have to play for their names or their money, and play who is playing well for their performance and their fit to the formation. 2 up top. 4 in the middle, including a real CDM. 4 at the back, with CB's in front of the keeper at all times.

W/ what happened in Madrd and v Chelsea where some players played well YET got benched for the off-form players, I don`t see that changing. BR looked like someone who could make tough decisions BUT now, he`s either becoe scared to make them or scared to be proven wrong if these decisions work (making him look dumb) or has become too big for his shoes. He`s sticking to a failed system because he wants to prove everyone wrong or he has no idea what he is doing. We shall see.

12 Nov 2014 11:27:34
According to Norwegian Newspaper, Norwegian Wonderkid Martin Ødegaard is headed to Melwood, to practice a week with Liverpool.

Himself and his family are LFC supporters, uf now BR can convince him to move to Merseyside a huge talent with love for the club might be a january signing!

12 Nov 2014 13:08:04
Sign another kid who's a good 2-3 years away from being capable for the first team?

I don't think so.

I would expect maybe 1 to come in in January if we manage to offload players and it wouldn't be another kid

12 Nov 2014 16:46:37
You could have said the same about Raheem 4 years ago .

13 Nov 2014 08:09:46
And he only really broke into the squad properly a year/18 months ago, so you would have been correct to say that about Sterling

12 Nov 2014 08:25:52
Morning All, I was looking at our transfer activity on line over the past 10 years, It is nothing short of shocking, There can't be a club in the premier that has lost as much money as LFC, hardly any players have been sold on for a profit, It is like other teams have a transfer figure in mind and add a few million to it once our interest becomes public knowledge,
FSG have obviously seen this that is why the transfer policy was reviewed looking at young players with a good re sale value, But the problem here is the wrong players have been bought, I don't think 1 of the summer acquisitions if sold now, could be sold for anything more than a substantial loss.
More frustrating to me is the fact that I do think we are linked with the right players but then seem to do nothing when it comes to the negotiation stage,
Jackson Martinez 35/40 million euros, Were we not linked when he was playing in Mexico, Bony when at Vittesse? The list is endless, nearly every player we are linked with we have had an opportunity to buy before the price went through the roof,
If we don't buy Odegaard when we clearly have an advantage, it will be another opportunity missed. The scouting system needs a shake up, but more importantly the way we do transfers is the bigger problem,
I have heard a few people on here say how good our youth teams and set up is?? How many players that haven't made it and been released, have gone on to bigger and better things?
We don't quite seem to understand what it takes for youth players to make the transition to first team, Were as Southampton are the benchmark they do, The percentage of players that come through their academy and become regular premier league players is high,

Anyone's thoughts on the way we do transfer business.

We haven't had a decent scouting system for years. I am not old enough to remember it but you hear stories of plucking the likes of Rush, Keegan, Aldridge etc from relative obscurity.

Nowadays (like you say) we identify a player and then go for a safer option. The problem is tgat these safe options are usually costing 3-4 times more than we could've signed them a year or two previously (Lovren is a prime example).

Regarding the academy, that is as much the fans fault as anyone at the club. They demand instant success from the young lads and write them off before they've even played. It puts pressure on the club to just take the easy option and sign somebody more well known even if they're of a similar age or ability. Manquillo is no better than Wisdom or Kelly.
Lovren is no better than Ilori.
Moreno is not much better than Smith.
Lallana isn't much better than Teixeira.
Markovic is no better than Ibe.
Lambert/Balotelli aren't much better than Yesil/Dunn.

The list is endless and the only thing separating our academy players from those who come through at other clubs is a manager who isn't afraid to play them.

12 Nov 2014 09:31:02
EMS I respect that you rate the young lads but to say the difference in quality is that small is a bit misguided, if they were that good, we'd have half the premier league asking for loan deals,

Well you can't say it is all doom and gloom. We did buy Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge for what can be seen as a bargain (depending on Sturridge's future injuries). Last summer wasn't great though, transferwise. By the way no one says here anything about the fact that Falcau, the dream of many here in the summer seems to be a injury prone as Sturridge and hardly played so far for ManU.

Thats a fair point Welshboy, but if we don't show a degree of trust in the kids, nobody else will.

Chelsea have an excellent system set up with Vitesse to get their kids that first chance so that Premier League clubs start to recognise them as good players. We don't do that. Then we find them the wrong deals in the lower leagues of English football where technical ability and tactical awareness are irrelevant because you'll just get kicked off the park.

Disagree with the academy players listed, I don't think any will be consistent performers in the premier league with any club? because they are not good enough, All the money spent on their development to let them go on loan a few times and then released for free.
It's not about having the bottle to play them either its about the calibre of player, Southampton academy players are a class above the academy players you mention, Walcott, Bale, Oxlade Chamberlin, Llalana, Chambers, shaw, Ward prowse, clyne,

12 Nov 2014 10:09:57
Fair point mate, and I do agree that Rodgers should really be using the youth players more, where was the sense in buying Alberto when we have Suso/Texiera etc?

Especially when you consider the likes of Sterling, Wisdom and Flanagan played so well for him,

I do still disagree with the gulf in class you suggested, maybe form wise their contributions would currently be similar, but you would hope the likes of Lallana and Markovic have another few gears they can go through,
In fact, you would REALLY hope they have a few extra gears, otherwise that's almost £40 million down the swanney!

This is my point though Dave. Southampton give those kids chances.

Players will step up their performances to acclimatise to the league they are in. If you put a player in league two, he will get used to the tempo and style of league two.

If you put a player in the Eredivisie in Holland, he will learn the more important things like technique and positional awareness.

If you give your youngsters a chance in the Premier league like Southampton it may initially be a baptism of fire but they learn quickly.

Our problem is not the calibre of ppayer in our academy. Our academy is arguably the strongest in the North of England (Pep Guardiola says it's second only to Barcelona). Our problem is the way we try and integrate these players into mens football. The club has no procedure in place. We just rush the kids through to the reserves and then wait for a team like Tranmere, Yeovil, Sheffield Utd etc to come calling then regardless of whether or not it's the right deal, we ship the kids out to fail.

The fact that you all seriously think these players I've listed aren't good enough shows just how badly the club is failing to get these players recognised.

Not a single team was interested in a loan deal for Flanagan. He was considered by us to be dead wood so no other club wanted to even consider him. Rodgers was then forced to play him due to injuries and he very quickly stepped up his game and proved he does have the ability in tge right surroundings.

Other players in our academy would do the same if we gave them a chance.

We either need to revise our loan structure or stop signing players to fill swuad positions that our academy can fill.

I gonestly don't care if anybody here wishes to tell me Wisdom, Ilori, Smith, Teixeira, Ibe and Dunn aren't good enough because I don't just think, I know you are wrong. However you are probably right that they'll never make it. That is not down to a lack of raw talent and ability. It is down to absolutely atrocious management at our club for the last 15 years. Evans was the last manager to truly utilise our academy. No suprise he pulled through Fowler, Owen, Carragher and Gerrard.

I will agree with you that these players will probably flounder. However I will not agree that that is any fault of their own. Give players a chance and then you can say they're not good enough. They all have natural talent and to deny that is just ridiculous.

I'd love to hear Ed001's thoughts on this when he is around.

{Ed001's Note - I can't argue with this at all, EMS has made some excellent points and it is a source of frustration in youth coaching circles how players are assumed not to be up to the mark just because they don't step up immediately. Players like Albrighton look great initially but then get found out, because they don't have the raw ability to raise their game. It is usually the slow starters, that take time to find their feet, that grow into the better players. The problem is that very few managers are prepared to give them that time, unless forced to do so.

Young players need to be nurtured, they need runs of games to get into the different style of football at professional, adult level. They also need to be carefully managed, taken out of the team if they start to get big headed etc, to get the most from them. They are going to make more mistakes than experienced players, they are going to be inconsistent, but that is when the manager earns his money by guiding them through it.}

I do believe that Lallana etc are probably better than the youth at this present time Welshboy. I am talking about pure natural ability though. The only way you perfect your skills is by being given a chance. Our acadeny is not failing us. We are failing our academy. Rodgers gas successfully introduced two youth players; Sterling and Flanagan.

Both of them were only given a chance because injuries gave him little to no choice and with a sustained run of games, they upped their game and improved drastically.

Since then Smith was put on for 20 minutes out of position against Chelsea (and we wonder why nobody wants him on loan? Talk about setting someone up to fail), Teixeira had a cameo agaibst Fulham in which he changed the game playing the pass that led to the penalty we equalised from, Ibe was given a game in which he set up the winning goal against QPR, Rossiter was given a game in which he scored and played excellent in, Suso was brought on as a sub in the same game I beliece and saved us from a humiliating defeat with a goal.

No I ask you, (ignoring the complete mismanagement of Smith), why is it that 4 kids have had a measurable impact on 4 different games in mere cameo appearances and yet not played since? Teixeira, Ibe, Rossiter and Suso all had positive impacts only to be shunted back into the reserves or out on loan to bloody Brentford.

I can completely accept that in your opinion these players are not good enough. However I must respectfully disagree because they have proven they have the ability just by making it this far. The only way they will make the next giant leap into premier league football is if somebody takes a chance on them or if we find them proper loan deals at teams who will play them in the right positions in a style that suits their game.

We're completely failing them and the fact Rodgers is actually inviting fans to turn on the youth team by insinuating they're not good enough with his diabolical transfers is just sickening.

If Carragher, Gerrard, Owen and Fowler had come through 15 years later I doubt even 2 of them would've made it into the first team because the process just isn't in place anymore.

If I was a 15 year old academy player I'm telling you rright now, I wouldn't touch Liverpool with a barge pole.

I completely agree with you regarding the management Ed. We just give players a taster then boot them straight back into the reserves/league 2. There is no management structure to helping our youth players with the transition. It's just a case of 'wait until we have no choice, that way if they fail I have an excuse'.

{Ed001's Note - sad thing is that it has been going on for years.}

What league were all the Southampton players in when they got their chance to impress and took it? Most of them were league 1 & 2 with the exception of shaw, ward prouse, chambers and I think another that I've forgotten the name of. They have the best system and the right profile of club to be able to risk a few kids because it doesn't matter if they finish mid table I really would love our team to be made up of the kids I've been watching in the u21s the last 2 years nothing made me happier than when sterling was on the team sheet for the city game I was so happy and nervous for the lad and its been a pleasure seeing him grow since carra's testimonial. I just don't think there's a professional manager about who's job is under pressure to win the league Etc who would have more guts than br to play the kids. Even if our next manager was Nigel Adams who brought through all the Southampton players he wouldn't do it as our manager. Klopp could do it because his team were nobody's with no money and no targets, Ajax can do it because they have no competition. A manager must feel safe before he can risk his job to play the academy kids even this summer he was under pressure to spend big because Suarez left of he'd of replAced Suarez with ibe and we were in the same position as we are he'd of been sacked already

12 Nov 2014 11:19:40
Completely agree EMS, you are echoing my thoughts exactly. The biggest thing for me would be to see us use our talented youth as squad players, only spending money on established, more experienced players. As you've already said, Wisdom for Manquillo, Ilori for Lovren, Suso and or Teixeira for Lallana and Ibe for Markovic. Is anyone really going to tell me that these youngsters could have done a poorer job so far than the players I have mentioned. There is roughly £60m worth of players there and I'd of preferred for us not to spend that money and instead use what we already had. It would be a fresh and exciting approach, and I much, much prefer watching a youngster grow and improve from being given a chance.

I honestly think Ed that even if we had the academy of 95 right now we'd still have people on here saying "Carragher is useless", "Redknapp is too slow", "Fowler isn't ready", "Owen is over rated", "Gerrard is a red card waiting to happen", "McManaman just runs into trouble" etc.

The easy way out is too blame the academy and say the players aren't good enough. Flanagan has proven that to be total n*****ls though. He was the reserve teams 4th choice right back behind Kelly, Wisdom and McLaughlin!

If our 4th choice right back can make the step up I'm sure at least 2 or 3 of the first choice players will make it if we give them the chance.

Sorry for my heavy input on this subject and all the typos. I am just so passionate about this subject in football!

I agree with most things you have said EMS although I do feel that saying that the current academy players would adapt to first team football if given a chance is a little off the mark, I feel the gulf in talent as mentioned between Southampton academy and ours is vast and not down to game time simply talent, What I will say is that the confidence of our youth players may be knocked badly by poor players playing in their position in the first team week in week out maybe tough to take, Were as saints players confidence grows and grows, It still comes down to raw talent for me.
An example for me is Adam Morgan, a lot of people on here wanted to see him given a chance in some games, Do I think if he had played regularly he would be up with your aguero's and costa's in the scoring charts. No because he wasn't good enough,, The same reason he was released by Yeovil

''The fact that you all seriously think these players I've listed aren't good enough shows just how badly the club is failing to get these players recognised''

Don't think any 1 said that at all EMS, people for the last year, and ED001 have been asking for the youth to be given a chance.Where people (welshboy) disagreed, was the claim lallana was only slightly better than texeira etc, texeira is good but has some way to go before texeiras level

Yesil hasn't played for 2 years, how can you say he's better than Lmabert, who's played well up front.

The sentiment of playing youth I agree with, as I think the board over the last year has agreed with, but I feel you have exagerrated the level of skill some of the youth have to their counterparts.

Redknapp didn't come through our academy, and Owen was overrated

12 Nov 2014 12:42:43
Well I for one certainly think they've got what it takes, maybe not all of them but certainly there's a few that would step up like Flanno and Sterling did.
I'd rather have an in form Yesil, Ibe or Sinclair than a dreadfully out of sorts Balotelli, but I really dislike Balotelli so that's probably not a fair comparison,
I also think Rodgers should take some of the blame for his form, as much as I dislike him, he's been dreadful and BR should have dropped him from the side for his own good.

Good points on the younger lads though, if memory serves, didn't we sign Texiera then give him a back operation that kept him out for 6 months? Why go through all that effort just to completely ignore him?

I imagine there are a few players who wish they hadn't moved to Liverpool if I'm honest,

Some of our youth players would excell at Southampton IMO!

I completely agree "not one of harrys". However, if Rodgers cannot handle that pressure, is he really good enough for us?

Even in his last season Ferguson was giving youth players a chance. Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Welbeck etc. He won the league that season btw. Sometimes just having a reasonably talented player full of hunger and desire can be the difference. Not only do you get a 100% performer out of it you also (who doesn't love seeing a kid fulfil his dreams?) improve squad morale.

I personally think Ibe would've scored and assisted more than Balotelli has. certainly more than Lallana or Markovic have. I think Lallana will come good (he did miss the entire pre-season with injury after all) but even then will he be £27m better than Ibe?

I disagree with you saying he'd be sacked already though. He has spent £120m+ and failed yet kept his job. I don't think spending £60m and failing would've made him more likely to get sacked. If anything it'd make him less likely to get sacked!

He has blown so much money on sending us backwards and sending those at the academy into complete disillusion.

I'm not suggesting he should've put 6 academy players straight into the starting line-up. That is a recipe for disaster. He could've used them as squad players and impact subs though rather than spending £100m on his subs bench and loaning out promising players to absolutely shocking teams in appalling leagues. Origi and Wisdom are the only players who got a decent loan this season.

I'm going to try and conclude my argument now because I feel as though I'm rambling:

Youth players need raw talent to get get to the top of the youth game. They need proper coaching to make them stand out at the top of the youth game. Liverpool FC has provided this. However, to make the step up youngsters need to play in a proper team that suits their ability/style and will prepare them for the technically gifted top flight leagues. There are two ways for them to achieve this; the club manager utilises them as squad players (Southampton, Arsenal, Dortmund, Ajax etc) OR you set them up with good loan deals that will get the best out of them for the future or at least alllow them to be sold for a return on the investment you put into nurturing them (Chelsea, Bayern, Barcelona etc). We are currently just rushing our academy prospects into the reserves and then kicking them off to the first team who takes an interest which is usually a league 1 or league 2 team; occasionally a Championship club. In these lower leagues the players are taught how to cope with poor pitches and physical opposition more than they're taught about technique and tactics. They also learn bad habits from a lower calibre of pro footballer and (sometimes) suffer from generally bad coaching from defensive or ancient managers. They acclimitise to lower tempo games and compeltely different styles of football. Then when they return or fail to cope with the physical aspects of the Npower prison rules league, we dub them failures and throw them back into the academy to await their next pub team loan deal. Then of course the manager publically bemoans the lack of options in his squad and signs 10 squad players, subliminally convincing the fans that the academy simply can't be good enough despite winning youth team tournaments and league titles every year. The lack of confidence in them from the manager to the fans then causes talented youth players to retreat into their shells resulting in them never meeting their potential. On the off chance that a youth player does get a chance, we over hype them as the best thing since sliced bread and make them think they've made it so they lose their hunger and sit back and enjoy their massive wages that they did nothing to deserve. We are not lacking in talented youth players; we are lacking a clearly defined process of integration into adult football that should be laid out by the manager, Rodgers. I will not back down from my opinion. So if you still disagree, hit the button and move on because I know we have talented players in our academy. I also know that Rodgers is not the manager we all thought he was and that he will not utilise our academy effectively without some guidance from a director of football which he is too stubborn to accept. If you give youth players a sustained run of games in your team then they can and sometimes will cement their place in the team. Sure, some will fail. Not even being given the chance to fail is unacceptable and unfair though and Rodgers/Hodgson/Rafa/Houllier etc have to take responsibility for that. Even Dalglish in his short spell back gave extended game time to Flanagan, Robinson, Spearing etc including giving Sterling his debut. He may not have had the right tactics or the best crop of kids, but he had the right idea on youth players. Maybe Rodgers will be forced into changing his ways. Personally I think he will be sacked eventually because he just doesn't know how to take the blame for things and that is the first step to improvement; admitting you are wrong.

Dave that is fair enough. There are undoubtedly players who just aren't good enough. Morgan, Spearing, Ngoo etc. Some players with obvious talent though are simply never allowed to showcase it.

Bobatron, I merely meant raw talent wise. Not necessarily current ability. I think you can handle having a few raw players on the bench though.

EMS
I agree with you on many points.
Ajax has produced the best players from their youth ranks the last 40 years in europe.
There under 17/18 teams do not need to win the league and ours are playing for the league.Ajax youth often win the league but its not a must for them.
Ajax want 1/2 players a year to make into their first squad that's there aim.
All the others leave the club, in the eredivisie there are about 30 players from the Ajax youth set up who were not good enough.
We need work like ajax does work more on the player itself.
Ajax knows that in their current under 18 team only 1 maybe 2 will make it although they win most matches.
A player like ibe/smith should have stayed with us this season and played cub games and if the score allows it bring him on the last 20min.
BR choose to buy more players than needed.
He should have replaced suarez/moses/siccokho they all left us, and a defensive midfielder what we needed.
And kept some money for the future.
BR would have kept the same balance the team had last season + its easier for a youth product to come into the team once the team is playing well.
Now its very hard for a youngster to get into the team.
BR will play it safe.
Malta.

Some of the youth players you've sighted from Man Utd EMS (smalling and Jones) cost around £24m reportedly from Fulham and Blackburn. The best kids get their chance around 18 and take it but usually this only happens at lower league clubs, they must get the chance I agree they must but going on loan is detrimental for me some of the best kids are bought from league 1/2 clubs that have played a season or two at that level at around 18. For me if a player reaches 21/22 like coady, morgan, roddan and now texiera and hasn't got into our first team that's when they won't make it they have to be bang ready at 21/22 but for those maybe 4 years from 18-22 they have to be on loan and playing or in our first team playing if they get injured in that crucial time like dunn, yesil, pelosi then that's pretty much curtains for them you can't afford to miss 6 months at that age. I know there's the odd late bloomer like Ian Wright but at the age 18/19 you can usually tell they have to look super human at the age they're playing at they can't just be the best in our team they need to be amongst the best in the country at 18/19 and they need to keep that up every single week. For me texiera was ruined by his back injury he missed so much crucial time in his career that for me the likes of brannigan age 17? Looks far more influential and he has 4 years on texiera, truth be told though the younger a player is naturally there is more potential growth but Personally I've seen more to be excited by from brannigan and even Adam Phillips I can genuinely see a future where out midfield is Phillips brannigan and rossiter but Phillips needs u21 games and CB needs a loan when he's of age & he then needs a better loan the season after that's how I see their progression and I know you and 001 think different and I suspect we always will but I think the top clubs loan their players until 20-22 and then they have to do it and if not they get cast aside because there's plenty more behind them

12 Nov 2014 18:12:25
Blame Rafa.

I had a good mate who played at the school of excellence for five years under Heighway.

We would travel after school on the bus and would be greeted by Heighway and allowed to watch the lads train.

Very informal but very effective.

Since 2010, we've sold or let go on a free 51 players. The 3rd most lucrative transfer (after Torres and Suarez) was Jonjo Shelvey to Swansea for a cool ~£3.3M. The only other transfer that were remotely profitable (outside of a few kids from the Academy) were N'Gog for ~£2.7M more than we paid for him and Meireles for ~£400k more. 51 players, 5 profitable and 3 of those were miniscule. That's just an absolutely shocking record.

12 Nov 2014 22:29:01
RDL, what about Alonso and mascherano? Didn't we buy then for roughly £12 and £19 million respectively and sell for £30 million each?

Mascherano was bought by us for £19.8M and sold to Barca for £17.6M.

Xabi was the year before in 2009 (I only went back to 2010), but he would have been a decent gain as well if I had went that far back. Bought for ~£14M, sold for ~£31M.

13 Nov 2014 07:30:30
Fair enough mate! Honestly thought we'd made a few bob on old Javier.

12 Nov 2014 05:46:08
who was that kid who wore no49 in the 'Reds prepare for Bernabeu clash video'?

Not sure as I haven't seen the video, but I think 49 is Williams' number.

Trent Alexander.