Liverpool Banter Archive February 12 2018

12 Feb 2018 14:49:20
{Ed's Note - Raghav has posted a new article entitled, Surely Manchester United are capable of playing better

12 Feb 2018 15:46:24
You forgot. ’under Klopp’.

12 Feb 2018 16:22:24
Yes SGRed, that's why you're behind us? Out of both cups right?

12 Feb 2018 16:31:59
If Klopp had spent as much as Jose, I would be expecting to be doing a lot better than Man U are right now. And if klopp had an extra 300 million to spend on top of our current team like Jose, I am pretty sure we would be doing much better than you right now. But unfortunately its all if, buts and maybes because our previous owners failed to capitalise on success, so we earn nowhere near as much as united. An unfortunate reality.

12 Feb 2018 16:49:59
Since when has playing well been defined as being successful? Don't be a moron Scholes. I assure you most educated neutrals would far rather tune into an LFC match than a United match at the moment, we score more than you and the goals are qualitatively better.

12 Feb 2018 17:08:23
Your previous owners were dreadful in fairness, but the current ones get far too much stick, undeservedly at times.

12 Feb 2018 18:29:33
How much money did you lot spend to lose at Newcastle? Unlucky.

12 Feb 2018 19:00:23
How much did you spend to lose at Swansea? Unlucky.

12 Feb 2018 19:12:44
Paul Pogba - the new Damien Plessis.

12 Feb 2018 19:21:44
Yeah scholes, you are doing great! A whole 2 points above us! Jose is awful mate and you won't be winning anything this season.

12 Feb 2018 19:18:42
Not sure why everyone is just taking about United spending recently.

Football began in 1992 apparently, 26 years before their spending began.

12 Feb 2018 19:32:53
Yeah, we won't win anything and neither will you.

12 Feb 2018 20:11:22
Mourinho will win though, he'll win a new contract in the summer then walk away with the cash when he gets sacked by Christmas. That's about the only thing he's good at these days 😂😂.

12 Feb 2018 20:53:10
We may well not wi anything, but at least the football isn’t like watching paint dry. All that money and you look like Stoke City under Pulis. Well done have a biscuit.

12 Feb 2018 21:12:12
I'm hate utd. It's not personal Scholes, it's a requirement for supporting Liverpool.

Scholes has a point, we ARE out of both cups and although we clearly play the more attractive football at the end of the day it's a results business. We certainly wouldn't hand back our 2005 champions league medals because we played boring, defensive football.

All that said, utd have spent so much more than lfc in the last 5 years, a lot, lot more and it has gained you two points and a couple of cold nights in the fa Cup. Since you can't beat City, you won't be lifting either of those cups.

I have never disrespected our owners, I think they're great, they back the manager to buy big Big money players, I, as a fan, thank them for that.

The owners were willing to splash out on Vvd last summer, I suspect had Southampton sold us virgil then, then we would be above you in the league. Since he signed we are way above you in the form table.

I can see only one reason why utd would want Jose managing them and that is success. Like I said, I'm no utd fan but you guys, us and arsenal are world famous for playing attractive football. The gunners and us still stick to our ethos, whereas you lot have sold your souls for the success you crave, which BTW you are as far from achieving as we are, more or less. How does that feel? Give me the gurning German ALL DAY.

12 Feb 2018 21:14:38
Scholes. I'd rather pay 110 mil for nothing than 300 mil.

12 Feb 2018 21:25:34
Bloody hell Salah, don't you think you've been on fire enough this season? 😮😂

Naby, you say that's the only thing he's good at these days but when was the last time Klopp even won a trophy? Im not taking aim, a genuine question. Trophies or attractive football?

12 Feb 2018 21:25:52
Mourinho won 2 trophies in his first season at Utd Supersalah.

12 Feb 2018 21:47:06
fair to say manU supporters expect more tho ye? forget the comparisons between clubs, ya surely want better with what you have don't ya?

12 Feb 2018 22:31:21
Maureen’s aiming to win the best behaved trophy at least this year isn’t he 😂.

12 Feb 2018 22:35:22
We certainly do expect more faithinworks but it's not a given. We have to be realisitic in the 'situation' that we're in right now, whereby it would be acceptable to win the FA Cup, get a good CL run and get in the top 4. I'd love it just as much as the next fan to be winning the league, CL, domestic cups bit its not a given right either.

Yes we have got 'criticised' for celebrating the league cup and Europa League last season but it was a building block, a starting point for more success, it has been a bit disappointing this season in the league this season but this City team is outstanding at the moment, no previous winners of the league had as much points at this stage than City have right now, any other season and Jose would have us right in the middle of a title race, so frustrating and realisitic/ understandable.

12 Feb 2018 23:09:02
Jesus the bitterness from our supporters is ridiculous at times. I hate Man Utd more than anybody but I’d swap positions with them in a heart beat, 2 trophies last season, the same 2 trophies we lost in our last 2 finals by the way. They’re above us, and let’s be honest are in a better position to be challenging for major honours.

I personally hope they implode but let’s be realistic for a second, yes they spend huge money but the countless trophies in the past 2 decades have allowed that to happen.

Other fans come on this page sometimes for a general chat and our lot are so self conscious we can’t help but just get on the defensive straight away, lighten up lads.

12 Feb 2018 23:26:50
I'd have been alright with winning those trophies tbh. at the end of rodgers time we were bereft of ideas and had no identifiable playing identity. i wonder if the current culture that mourinho is embedding is something that manU fans will buy into for the next 3 - 5 years?

I suppose if you're winning trophies then who is really going to nit pick about it aye?!

13 Feb 2018 02:17:07
Behind you? bro by the end of the march u will b behind arsenal by d looks of how u play😂😂and wow. the guy u got for mkhi missed an empty net😂.

13 Feb 2018 03:19:18
My comment wasn’t one of Liverpool vs Man Utd at all. I agree wholeheartedly that your results have been much better last two seasons in terms of trophies, it’s also clear Man Utd has better income and therefore spending power/ squad and Mourinho has done a decent job picking up the pieces after LVG.

My comment was 100% would they play better under Klopp. My view is yes, I think you would.

Mourinho is entirely pragmatic and minimizes risk to the downside. With a top squad in his hands, that means he’s got a decent of winning something every so often as he’s bound to get a decent run across one of either the league, EFL, FA cup or in Europe. It’s very difficult to knock out a side playing low risk football with quality the likes of De Gea, Pogba, Matic, Sanchez, Ibrahimovic etc.

Klopp is almost the exact opposite, he takes risks. He looks to maximize performance to the upside at the risk of the downside. IMO it produces much better football, and much more in keeping with Man Utds traditions of attacking football. I think he would make you a less consistent side, but also more likely to beat the best of the best.

13 Feb 2018 07:24:37
This such a childish thread.

13 Feb 2018 09:18:31
Man Utd have won 5 trophies since we last won one.

I agree we are going steadily in the right direction compared to their steady decline, but they've been a better team for the best part of 25 years unfortunately.

13 Feb 2018 10:21:45
Spot on, 87red. I do agree w/ Scholes that our owners get way too much stick, most of which is undeserved, IMO.

13 Feb 2018 11:52:25
Mourinho will soon be kicking up a fuss with Bobby Charlton! Don't worry. Self destruction coming.

13 Feb 2018 11:55:03
True Irish rover, 3 if you count chart it shield. Mourinio would swap them both for ten points now though. I just don't think utd are in a position to give us stick. I know it's unusual for you guys to be above us these days but I think it's going to your head.

If man City were sucked into a black hole and it was the last game of the season, a utd win and Liverpool loss would hand utd the title and a lfc win and utd loss and we would win the season. (or) it's only 2 points.

13 Feb 2018 12:02:42
Fair enough jordz and you're right, it's only a game. But I think the argument was, would you swap our playing style for the 2 points and a cup run. Personally I wouldn't want us to sacrifice our flair for a league cup trophy. Would I sacrifice it for a title and CL title. Damn right I would. But not for two points, a team low on confidence and Shrewsbury away.

13 Feb 2018 13:30:14
Unusual for us to be above you salah? You've finished ahead of us twice since Fergie left and we've also finished ahead of you twice since then, ahead of you this season aswell, not really 'unusual'

13 Feb 2018 14:08:36
Some of the comments on this thread are downright embarrassing.
It is not United’s fault that they have more spending power. Success is measured in trophies (and for some in income) and all due respect to united for being good at both.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate United and get almost as much joy in them losing as in us winning, but I cannot support arguing against them because they spend more money.
Honestly though, personally, for all the success in the world i wouldn’t trade Klopp for Mourinho, or the performances by Our team for United’s.

13 Feb 2018 16:20:07
Eds note - your comment has been posted on the Man United rumours site.

12 Feb 2018 12:09:21
Ed1 not liverpool related at all but why does everyone think neymar will join real madrid? is he of serious interest to them andi assume that's why PSG have bought Mbappe also as i guess he will be neymars replacement if he does go?

{Ed001's Note - this has been addressed on our Real Madrid site.}

12 Feb 2018 12:24:58
Lol but they got Mbappe in the same window. Why buy him at all if they bought his replacement at the same time?

12 Feb 2018 13:05:48
Maybe PSG knew Neymar would never hang around long enough, hence the Mbappe signing. let's be honest, Neymar will go to Real this summer or the next, hence why I am confident Real won't sign Salah. Real's first choice is Neymar to replace Ronaldo and they are looking to Icardi or Griezmann as their new No.9 which is close to 300 million euros worth of talent alone. They won't have another 150 million kept aside for a luxury signing like Salah. Also, Perez is a big Hazard fan so he might go to Real as well this summer.

12 Feb 2018 15:53:32
Salah is going nowhere in the summer. Not after only 1 year. He has scored goals so of course there will be rumours. Surely Real would go for kane before salah, kane has proven he can do it year in year out. I keep expecting the salah bubble to burst. He is pure class though and I wouldn't swap more for anyone.

12 Feb 2018 16:15:26
Moves for Kane, Hazard or Neymar will all have to fail before they come for Salah in my opinion. Not to mention that they need to find suitors for Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema despite them all being on wages they don't remotely justify. Maybe Ronaldo does based on the exposure he brings globally, but he's not worth the wages he demands on the pitch anymore. I can't see them selling the other two easily. Certainly not both early enough in the summer to make two big moves for a Galactico replacements! Transfer sagas for big players get drawn out until the wire and Premier League clubs will be turning off the fax machines much earlier than normal so Kane, Hazard and Salah may be unattainable. No way will they get all 3.

Madrid will have an idea of how they want this summer to go, and I personally just can't see everything falling in to place for them in one summer window. Salah recently said he wants to win trophies here and was a boyhood red, and although that is definitely just lip service, it does suggest we shouldn't struggle to convince him to give us at the very least 1 more year.

I must stress this is just my opinion though and i have no, nor do I claim to have any, inside knowledge about any of these clubs or players! I'm just speculating like everyone else.

12 Feb 2018 18:15:06
While Salah has been saying he wants to win trophies and is a boyhood fan he has had he agent sounding out Madrid, so it is indeed lip service. I think it will be more of a case of Liverpool putting the "not for sale" sign up to keep him 1 more year and less of trying to covince him to stay. If he got the chance to join Madrid this Summer then he would be gone in my opinion, boyhood fan or not.

12 Feb 2018 19:26:23
Give him a new contract 🤝.

12 Feb 2018 11:55:07
I think Watfords Richarlison would be a good signing in the summer. Plays every match, good work effort, gets goals and assists and wouldn't break the bank. Think he would be a good option for us from the bench. Only 20 years old aswell.

12 Feb 2018 12:05:48
I thought the same 10 games ago but he needs to adapt now. As an unknown quantity who was given space he started really well. Since his scintillating start though, teams habe identified him as a threat and marked him out of the game at times.

At 20 years old he has huge potential, and I'd definitely take a gamble on him as a back up for a good price. He just needs to learn to cope with being targeted by defenders.

If we are shopping in Watford though, Abdoulaye Doucoure should be the first player we buy! He started well, got targeted as a player to try and stifle in midfield, and his physical dominance meant that he thrived on people trying to keep pace with him, or outmuscle him. He is so good that whoever marks him might as well not be on the pitch because they'll spend all game chasing a shadow or flat on their backside in his wake. Even Kante got dismantled by him. He'd be a perfect replacement for Emre Can.

12 Feb 2018 12:22:22
Why gamble on Richarlison when we have Solanke needing game time? Richarlison is a good player but clearly he’s not going to improve the first team, and he would just block Solankes opportunities without being a clear improvement.

12 Feb 2018 12:25:13
First season, not convinced yet 👍.

12 Feb 2018 13:00:48
Richarlison is NOT who we need from Watford. It is Doucoure. The guy is just brilliant in all phases of the game, IMO. As for Richarlison, he is still too inconsistent so no thanks. Also, people whining that Wilson, Ojo should get a chance YET some on here are looking at another young player who is just as raw as they are. Sorry, that is not improvement. If any young winger should be signed/ used, it should be OURS and no one else's.

12 Feb 2018 13:40:28
Solanke and Richarlison are totally u related. Solanke plays in the centre, and Richarlison plus out wide.

He'd just be extra competition out wide who is a clear upgrade on Kent, Wilson and Ojo.

I agree with Ron though. Rather wait to see if he can step up.

12 Feb 2018 14:19:20
MK, I disagree. He is not an upgrade on our boys. He is getting chances at Watford to learn so I believe our boys need the chances and him coming in, will block their growth if indeed we believe in them. If we don't then fair enuff and at that point, I don't wanna hear people whining that our youth don't get chances whilst at the same time, asking for young players from other clubs coming in to take thier place. Both those points of view CANNOT be correct or valid at the same time.

12 Feb 2018 15:00:20
I'm all for giving youth a chance. Woodburn, Solanke, Gomez and Arnold are the stand outs though and anyone else (currently) is nothing but an outside chance

Wilson, Kent and Ojo are nowhere near ready for Premier League football on a regular basis. Richarlison is already doing that though.

I'm not saying we should move mountains to sign him, just that if he was available for a good price, he'd be a good option to have on the bench as he gives an injection of pace and fearless direct play. I'd rather wait a season or two to see if he can continue to improve, but if he was available for say £15-20m (a pinch in todays market) and we showed no interest I'd be a little disappointed. In our team where there is more than one player to mark, and with Firmino's creativity, he might well thrive.

I do get your point on giving players a chance, but Wilson and Kent are hugely over rated on here in my opinion, and Ojo can't seem to stay fit for longer than 3 months. It was even suggested they are as good as Pulisic which if I'm blunt, is just total rubbish.

We have some great talents, don't get me wrong. Woodburn is an attacking midfielder, Trent is a right midfielder or right back, Solanke is a centre forward, and Gomez is a centre back or a right back. Richarlison is a left winger so i fail to see how he affects the game time of our top talents.

We can't pass on opportunities to sign great young talents just because Wilson, Ojo and Kent have about 6 Championship goals combined. If Richarlison is not a top talent to you, than fair enough, i understand your argument fully. To me, Richarlison looks like he has some serious potential though at the top level.

I am a massive advocate of giving the youth academy players chances. Arguably one of the biggest on this site historically. However I've learnt down the years to take a step back and assess without bias after i was bitten by the likes of Wisdom, McLaughlin, Suso, Sterling, Smith, Teixeira and Ibe; 7 players i was convinced would make it at Anfield.

Only 1 of them was i correct with, and only 1 other made it at the top of the game elsewhere. Sterling and Suso were probably the two I'd have picked out as the best, but i still thought the others had what was needed. So what i learnt from that is that you should focus on the one or two clear stars. Woodburn and Arnold stand out by a mile, and Gomez and Solanke were the stand outs at the academies we nicked them from.

Sometimes you just have to accept that players who look good at youth level, and average in the Championship still at 21 years old, probably won't make it. There might be the odd anomaly like Harry Kane, but for every one Kane, there is close to 100 players who just genuinely weren't good enough. So you can't pin your hopes on kids who have shown no consistent quality in men's football, to the detriment of the future of the club. If they are as good as you think they are, signing Richarlison won't matter as they will usurp him when they are ready.

12 Feb 2018 15:41:25
He wouldn't be targeted so much with Salah and firmino playing.

12 Feb 2018 15:42:19
I don't see Richarlison getting In our team. Simple. And like sgred says, we already have dom solanke.

12 Feb 2018 16:23:22
MK, I never said that our boys are better than Richarlison. You are having a convo that I am not having. I am not saying Richalison is better than our boys or vice versa. Shoot, we can't even know that as our boys who play in his position, have not getting the chances he's getting at Watford so we don't know if he's better than them, really. You may like Richarlison and that is fine. My point is that if people want him in here, thwy should not at the same time complain that our boys are not getting chances. Again, both those statements cannot be correct. On of them is wrong.

12 Feb 2018 16:26:48
Again, what does Solanke have to do with Richarlison? One is a target man centre forward, the other is a pacey left winger. You might as well say "I don't want Oblak because we have Salah"

It's a squad game and after Mane and Salah we only really have Chamberlain (maybe Woodburn) who can play out wide in the 4-3-3 system. That is fine for the mean time, but if Ox is going to be a midfield regular long term, surely we need to get some more competition in the wide areas?

I'm really surprised at the resistance to signing another wide forward considering we only have 2 of premier league quality and a couple of midfielders who can cover there in emergencies. Richarlison gives us pace out wide, in depth. Currently if we lose Mane or Salah we have to do a major reshuffle to the side. I was happy with that temporarily as January is a bad time to buy, but long term we need a better squad to compete. Not to mention a better option coming off the bench to play out wide than Milner! Every time he comes on in a wide role we lose width and directness as he just hoods ball forward from deep. Gini, Ox and Lallana can play wide but none of them look comfortable there to be honest.

Just my opinion. Richarlison might not be everyone's preferred choice, but I'm surprised people don't want any wide forwards at all because we have a 20 year old centre forward on the bench 🤔.

12 Feb 2018 16:51:44
MK, I hope you are aware that I never mentioned Solanke in any of my posts as that would just be stupid cos they are in no way related in terms of player profile and position on the pitch.

12 Feb 2018 19:14:14
Don’t think Richarlison would be cheap, I bet it would take at least 40m to sign him. He does however look a good prospect, had a downturn in form the last month but I like him, needs to improve his final ball/ finishing but he’s only 20.

12 Feb 2018 19:45:21
I'm not convinced by Solanke and will be surprised if he proves to be good enough.

12 Feb 2018 21:15:39
I know they are different players mk dude, but it's still a case of having az player trying to break into the front 3. Dom has been put on the left side of that front 3 before too. It's okay dom sitting on the bench at this stage of his career but Richarlison is an established premier league player now. Having said all that I would be pleased enough if we signed him.

13 Feb 2018 07:20:16
They may not play exact positions but it would clearly still impact our own players.

If we want to rest a winger for example, we can currently easily
1) play Woodburn there like we did Coutinho
2) play Ox there and bring on Woodburn in attacking midfield or
3) bring on Solanke either out wide
4) move Firmino out wide to close out the game while Solanke becomes our hold up striker

All of these are sensible alternatives IMO.

13 Feb 2018 11:50:33
I would sign Richarlison tomorrow. Ideal for Coutinho role, left side of midfield 3. Bit inconsistent now but will be a top player imo.

13 Feb 2018 11:59:11
I think solanke will make it at lfc. I think he just needs a proper nice Premier league goal and the flood gates will open. I wasn't convinced until I watched him in Pre season where he was brilliant. He strikes me as a confidence player.

We have been fairly Lucky with injuries so far, I know we have had a couple but it's not been too bad. Origi got a decent run last year, Don hasn't had that chance.

12 Feb 2018 09:25:48
Dreading the thought of seeing Mignolets name in the starting 11 on Wednesday. Karius may not be a million times better buti feel like Mignolet's time is up now and Karius just needs a run of games until the end of the season and we'll see if he can cut it for next season.

Klopp really doesn't need to rotate so I hope he's brave enough to keep Karius in.

12 Feb 2018 09:33:44
Karius has been the champs league keeper up to now I doubt Migs is going to take his place.
Migs is a backup now.

12 Feb 2018 09:56:04
Didn't Klopp just make Karius the undisputed No.1 GK for the rest of the season? Don't see Migs getting a look in unless Karius suffers an injury.

12 Feb 2018 10:35:11
We have to give karius a run until at least the end of the season. Migs can have no complaints, he’s had almost 5 years to make the position his own with little to no competition and little improvement.

12 Feb 2018 11:46:27
Personally I think Karius should be keeper in all remaining games unless he is injured with Ward as number 2.

12 Feb 2018 13:08:15
Why would Migs come back in when Klopp has said Karous is he guy till the end of the season? Also, I know he brought Migs back in the FA Cup (foolish decision) BUT if he does that in a CL game of this level then, he will deserve the stick he gets regardless of outcome. Karius is on a roll right now and it would be stupid for Klopp to kill that now for reasons only he would be able to understand cos no one else will.

12 Feb 2018 15:33:31
If he rotates the GK’s. then he faces its consequences. Simple!

12 Feb 2018 15:44:17
Business end of ucl. Not the place for rotation funny business. Karius sill start.

12 Feb 2018 08:11:28
Supersalah, i saw you ask if i was a fan of Virgil, but it's on like banter page 3 or something by now.

To answer your question, I'm in limbo at the moment.

My opinion is that he is a better version of Matip. He is quicker, stronger, better in the air, and just as good on the ball.

However he still has a penchant for grappling with people, he is only marginally faster at getting back into position, and he also shirks responsibilities constantly. Though at least he communicates and orders his team mates to deal with it. Matip just leaves it and says nothing!

All in all, it's not that i don't rate Virgil. I just think he was a poor choice to partner Matip. In games where we are under the cosh, like the West Brom game for example, i think they will fold and look at each other rather than themselves. Virgil was only a £30-40m player in my opinion, but Klopp wanted him and the board put their money were their mouth was and broke multiple transfer records.

Both Matip and Virgil need a strong partner who will just take responsibility and focus more on defending than on trying to play football though. A player such as Milan Skriniar, Stefan De Vrij, Kalidou Koulibaly, Jamaal Lascelles or Jonathon Tah would be ideal in my opinion.

I just don't see that we can get away with having two centre backs who both think they're midfielders, when the going gets tough. I think deep down Klopp knows it though which is why he played Lovren against Spurs. Lovren isn't good enough long term, but he's a proper centre back who just puts his foot through it and loves a physical battle. We've upgraded Matip with Virgil, now we need to upgrade on Lovren. I think Gomez might end up staying at right back as it allows us to morph into a back three mid-game, against stronger opposition. So we need a consistent warrior type centre back who can play on the right side of the pairing, as Virgil favours the left.

I rate Virgil as a ball playing centre back. He just needs a strong partner. He's only ever looked solid in his career alongside Jose Fonte who was an actual leader and didn't just point a lot and pass on responsibility.

12 Feb 2018 08:22:08
I reckon Lascelles would be a good shout. Genuinely good defender and also a proper leader. Never see him go missing or shirk a challenge, certainly remember him having a go at his colleagues for not caring enough about the job they’re paid to do.

12 Feb 2018 08:27:52
Exactly Mr Dennis. Leadership is dealing with a situation yourself and then telling your team mates off so they do it next time. Set an example for them to follow.

Virgil just points and shouts at a ball he is 5 yards from. You can't be taken seriously when telling others to take responsibility, if you don't do it yourself. He's a very composed player who is great on the ball and in the air, but he needs a better partner who takes responsibility.

12 Feb 2018 08:45:32
Have you guys really turned on VVD already? Come on guys, he isn’t fully fit, has only played a few games and been with us a month.

Let’s get behind him. We kept a clean sheet yesterday, won the game yet people are still unhappy?!

12 Feb 2018 08:55:57
Bit harsh MK - I think he’s been very good at taking responsibility so far, you can see already he takes ownership for anything coming into the box, he’s excellent with any long balls pumped up to their striker, and he’s not afraid to nick in front to regain possession avoiding the need to tackle much of the time, all the while dictating to his defence where they need to be.

12 Feb 2018 08:57:07
I think van Dijk is a top defender, but he can't do it on his own, and I don't think that Matip is up to the job and Lovren is too inconsistent.

12 Feb 2018 08:59:51
I don't think MK has turned on him kdfirst, just stating a few what I'd call facts. - Good post MK, I couldn't agree more.

12 Feb 2018 08:59:52
Management has a variety of style and quite honestly eh don’t see anything wrong with VVD’s style. You cannot always do everything yourself, that’s micro managing. On the football pitch communication is vita and u TIL VVD came in I don’t honk I ever saw any of our defenders talk. Even yetserday VVD was directing and egging then on when we looked a little sheepish. I will not pretend he’s perfect or will save us ever conceding. A goal but he wants to fight for this shirt, he’s the best we’ve had in a while and he’s got the balls to shoulder the responsibility. I think long term he’ll have been a great signing.

12 Feb 2018 09:00:57
Wha school of leadership did you attend mk? ‘ telling your team mates off’ lol.

12 Feb 2018 09:30:02
MK, Are you Jimmy Hill in disguise? Jumpers for goalposts and all that? I personally think that in the short time VVD has been at the club he is progressing. We look so much more robust. Have a look at the stats for the Spurs game. How many shots on goal did one of the leagues most attacking teams have? I think your well off the mark. I can see huge improvement in how many chances the opposition are being limited to and it will get better too.

12 Feb 2018 09:36:14
Far too early to judge him. He needs a good preseason under his belt.
If I had to judge him though I would say even though he’s not fit and not settled he’s already probably our best defender and will only get better.

12 Feb 2018 09:45:43
I was a club captain for 5 years Swishcleaner. At a low level, sure, but i would never tell somebody to do something i didn't do myself. It's common sense. If your manager asked you to do 3 hours unpaid over time because the business was struggling, and then he left on time, is that good leadership? Of course it isn't. Virgil needs to take charge and then talk to his team mates about what they should do better, for the good of the team. If he is prepared to let us concede a goal he could stop just to prove a point, Klopp needs to have some serious words.

I've not turned on Virgil at all. I said all this before he signed, as did plenty of others. All I've stated is that he has a few flaws, and that Matip is not the right player to compliment him. How is that turning on him? There are some real snowflakes on the internet! I think Van Dijk could be fantastic alongside a proper leader, and warrior type centre back. But not alongside Matip who has the same flaws, or Lovren who lacks consistency.

Virgil is a very good ball playing centre back. He is not going to fix our defensive issues over night though on his own.

It is not "micro managing" to just clear a ball that you are stood right next to, and then tell your partner they need to be dealing with it in future. That is called taking charge of a situation and leading by example. Carragher would never have left some of the balls Virgil is leaving. He'd put it into safety and then tell the keeper he should be coming to collect it. You have to take responsibility to show others that they have to, and for the good of the team more importantly. If we concede a goal because Van Dijk refused to clear it as he was having another "not my job" moment, I'd be furious.

If explaining constructively where a player can improve is now considered "turning on" a player, we might as well shut this site down. I like Virgil, but all I've said is that he would not have been my pick, he was over priced, and he needs a more defensive minded partner than Matip to bring out the best in him. People are in denial if they think Matip and Virgil are a good enough partnership to win league titles. They do not compliment each other well, at all.

12 Feb 2018 09:58:16
Whether people rate VVD or not, the work on our defense is not yet done imo. VVD needs a long term partner (not Matip coz he is just a lazy poor version of VVD) for next season. Lovren will do for now but Klopp should know we need a consistent CB who can partner VVD without the need for rotation. Manolas, De Vrij would be great.

12 Feb 2018 10:16:58
My opinion of van dijk.
He was piss poor in Mary poppins. (fake cockney accent) . Great in chitty chitty bang bang. Who wouldn't enjoy a flying car. and his pinnacle was in diagnosis murder. Which is still shown now and again on the BBC. Overall a nice fella.

12 Feb 2018 10:31:37
MK. You would not get anyone to do anything you not prepared to do yourself? Well let's wait and see when your heavily pregnant and see if you are prepared to travel some distance by car without soiling your trollies Lol.

12 Feb 2018 10:36:50
I agree Indian Buzzer. De Vrij would be a perfect partner for him in my opinion.

Just to add, people seem to have missed the original thread this was in response to. I did say that i thought Virgil played well yesterday. His calm and composed performance in the second half was a big reason why Saints didn't trouble us. We had Milner, Arnold, Can and Robertson just playing hoof ball for the last 15 minutes, but Virgil, Matip, Gini and Lallana all got the ball down and tried to play. They were the 4 stand out players in the second half and their composure helped to see out the victory!

I'm not anti-Virgil at all. All I've said in essence is that he needs a partner who compliments him better than Matip and is more consistent than Lovren.

Anybody who thinks Van Dijk has no flaws should probably watch the West Brom, Swansea or Spurs game again. All of which he was heavily involved in goals conceded. He is a good player and he is notably improving, but he needs more quality alongside him to bring out the best in him. Alongside Fonte, Virgil looked world class. Put a leader next to him in our defence, and we should see that Van Dijk again.

12 Feb 2018 10:40:56
I think you’re massively underrating his performance in poppins roller. He owned that chimney sweep song.

12 Feb 2018 10:48:31
Roller you really are "The Comic", to remember all this stuff you must have had "A night in the Museum".

12 Feb 2018 11:32:11
Well said MK. Its not the quality of a single CB in your first team that matters. Its how well the group of defenders compliment each other. Right now the best fit for VVD as a CB partner is Lovren who is a proper defender unlike Matip. BUt we all know LOvren's flaws hence the need to upgrade that position. I want to see another leader character in that defense to guide our younger fullbacks in Gomez and TAA and who will compliment VVD's style. VVD is a ball player with immense physical and athletic abilities. Now let's go for a proper old fashioned CB who likes commanding the defense and will be the last man which will allow VVD to step out of defense and push the opposition backwards. Manolas and De Vrij striker me as the best options but Gimenez would be ideal.

12 Feb 2018 11:59:29
Sorry MK, when I read your reply, I couldn't help but to think what if the words were in different tenses? You turn on him? He turns you on?

Sorry. It's a bad joke. I know. I just couldn't help it. Sorry.

12 Feb 2018 13:19:16
Spot on, IB. Matip was poor yesterday if that can even be possible in a game like that where we were under little pressure last night. Lovren is a proper defender with way more ability than Matip. Lovren does not hide in games and is committed to a fight esp. vs a physical striker which is why he can't be bullied by them except vs Kane in Wembley where well, everyone was poor. VVD was not my choice as well BUT is way better than Matip in every area. He just needs to be more aggressive and committed in his game cos he is too laid back for a CB. Lovs/ VVd for me, at the moment.

12 Feb 2018 15:32:15
Perssonally I think VVD is excellent. He has shown only glimpses of what he is capable of. MK u say that VVD is not a suitable partner for Matip. It’s the other way around although give them a chance to get some understanding going!

U refer back to the West Brom game but it was clearly Moreno’s fault for all 3 goals in that game. West Brom knew Moreno would leave a huge gap and exploited it time and time again. VVD was in the right position for each goal, he was let down by the idiot that is Moreno.

In my opinion VVD has been commanding and made a huge difference. we were unlucky against spurs, wonder goal and a dubious pen, Swansea had 2 shots. bar them results and the Moreno and Mignolet disaster show we are improving at the back. It’s midfield that needs more attention I think.

Would like to add that Karius has done well over the past few games. Still putting us under pressure with some silly passes but his kicking is much better than Mignolet and he gets out and closes attackers down. Hopefully he can continue to improve.

Finally! Please Klopp leave Moreno
And Mignolet in Liverpool this week!

12 Feb 2018 15:38:51
I think there are lots of types of leaders and knowing what our players will respond best to isn't easy as they've never really had any! It's important that we dump any thoughts of a van djik shaped messiah quickly, or else the wave of inevitable disappointment that will follow will make his position in our team untenable. We will see what is he and what he will become as time moves on (tbh I think MK may be slightly coloured by some of his more prominent positive and negative soton performances than reflecting on what he's done for us so far), and there can be little doubt that we would benefit from another top class CB to start replacing a couple of our current set and improve/ diversity our options and leadership back there, whatever Van Djik turns into. For now though, we can just enjoy that we have a more capable defender in all the basic skill sets required for the job than we had 2 months ago. Together with a more stable goalkeeper, our entire defense looks steadier and far less prone to panic. Good things - if they evolve into great things then awesome but if not, ce la vie and at least they are good things.

12 Feb 2018 15:39:32
I have to disagree with that MK.
VVD brings a calmness at the back that we didn’t have before. Yes we can pick at his faults but every player in the world has faults they are only human beings.
For me he’s very much like a Kompany type of player and leader. Big, strong, quick and gets his point across to his defenders without having to scream at them.
He will no doubt improve in his time with us too.

12 Feb 2018 15:46:43
Thanks for your reply MK, I understand where you are coming from. I don't think mk has turned on Vvd it is the high fee that has upset fans.

For me, I don't think we have seen the best of him yet. I was one of the lads who voted for lovren as player of the month back in 2017, and I think he looks a better player at rcb rather than lbc. I'm not a massive matip fan, he is too lazy for me. Vvd seems to have settled really quickly, it's easy to forget that he has only been with us a few weeks.

When I watch Liverpool something just feels different now defencively. I reckon he will steer us toward top 4 and 1/ 4 final+ in ucl. Where I take your point about laziness, Vvd is quicker off the mark than matip. There was a late offside shout yesterday (they had like 3 players offside) and it was Vvd who reacted first, in fact he had moved into position to make a challenge before anyone else had even noticed. I like him but it will be the big games that he is ultimately judged on.

12 Feb 2018 16:14:29
Van Dijk is head and shoulders above anything we have had for a fair few seasons, he stands out a mile from our current crop, he is a next level defender and it shows, if we had another cb on his level and a keeper of the same quality we would be a real title contender.

12 Feb 2018 16:49:55
Agreed, Supersalah. There was also a time where Tadic got free on the left with acres of space to measure a good cross. Just watch Matip literally jug towards him instead of breaking his neck to get into position to at least affect the cross and even if you don't, at least act like you are trying to get there.

Matip just jugged over and the cross came in, a header from Ward Prowse and Karius makes the save. Sorry, Matip is no longer possible. It is Lovren for me. Had Klavan not been left footed, it would be Klavan b4 Matip.

12 Feb 2018 07:25:40
Just wanted to say what a difference solid gk performance makes. Ward Prowse header and 1on1 with hojberg i think (know it is hard angle but migs conceded worse) and later we are comfortable and no drama. bravo Karius hope you grow every game, it is so hard to come to new club and shine not many goalkeepers have done that (even de Gea made lot of mistakes first season) . our defece looks better when Karius is on the goal especially CBs.

12 Feb 2018 07:53:13
To be fair, Migs saves both of those (and then let's a goal in by flapping a cross)

12 Feb 2018 08:05:59
Personally i think fans are putting him on a pedestal he really doesn't deserve, highlighting every decent save he makes and comparing him to Mignolet.

12 Feb 2018 08:18:05
I agree RedLorry. Knowing Mignolet, he would probably save the Hojberg shot, save the strong header from JWP, but then he'd have flapped at the crosses whoch resulted in thebweak headers from Carillo and JWP, and both would've gone in straight down the middle into an open net with Mignolet lying on the floor.

Karius should be playing every game until the summer. Mignolet can be like a cat at times, but he's used up his 9 lives.

12 Feb 2018 09:33:25
Karius was interviewed in the Guardian on Weds last week. Its a great read. Gives you an idea about the lad and his take on being the Liverpool No 1.

12 Feb 2018 09:41:13
Give him a break Irish Rover. The pundits and a lot of fans pick fault at very slightest thing he does. Yet we aren't allowed to give him praise for couple good saves at 1.0 and good fast distribution to start move for 1st goal? And we wonder why his confidence looked 0 a while back!

12 Feb 2018 13:31:28
No one cares what Migs would have done cos he is a non starter and how it took this long to bin him for good is still a mystery.

Irish, let it go, man. No one is putting him on a pedestal. Shoot, no one even did that when he had a much better perf. vs Spurs than last night. He is doing well. We can all agree on that w/ o the constant nitpicking. The goal Newcastle scored last night was one DDG could do nothing about. Had that been Karius, it would have been nitpicked on to find fault with him as Coo9 said.

The guy cannot do a darn thing right in the eyes of many esp. the pundits cos it seems like it would literally kill them to say he did well or was solid. The guy is on a roll now and the hope is he keeps it up and whether he is the guy or not, it will be up to Klopp and no one else. Not the useless pundits nor his shameless detractors who have nothing good to say about him.

12 Feb 2018 15:31:00
Irish - I disagree, I think the comparrison is important because you know everything wrong he does will be blown up ridiculously. It's important right now to highlight when he does things right. And we can say Mingolet saves both of those shots but considering he's let in 9 of the last 10 shots on target he faced. he probably doesnt.

12 Feb 2018 15:48:18
I don't think he was amazing. He threw the ball to Southampton once and it was just carelessness. We are so used to below par gk performances from both migs and Karius that when we see a keeper have a decent game we call it a great performance. It wasn't, it was OK.

I still think we haven't seen the best of him but he has 12/ 20 games to show why he should be given the shirt. He is low on confidence, that much is obvious. Loved mks 9 lives comment. The only time I would give migs a game would be as a sub, late in the game if we have to defend a penalty, even then I would worry. Nah, migs has played his last game for us hopefully.

12 Feb 2018 19:30:28
As a certified "Karius sceptic" I have to declare O think he’s done well. Not perfect, but an improvement. Keep it up Loris 👍.

12 Feb 2018 06:36:27
Karius had a good game. Just thought id mention it. Everyone mentions how poor he is all the time but he seems to be building up some decent form. Long may it continue.

12 Feb 2018 07:01:25
on Wednesday, long may it continue Wednesday.

12 Feb 2018 07:33:49
Made a couple of terrific saves yesterday and looks far more confident. If he starts catching crosses then my heart would massively appreciate it. Nice to see the lad playing well.

12 Feb 2018 08:00:44
Spot on aussie, he seems to have gotten his feet firmly under the table and is looking like the keeper klopp thought he bought. Now for him to kick on and prove we don't need to spend in the summer, the ball is in his court.

12 Feb 2018 14:04:04
Spot on, boys. Karius has always been a talented GK cos if he was how his haters and the media tout him to be, he would not have been highly rated in Germany and Klopp would not have signed him. You just have to wonder where we would have been had he got a full run in the team earlier. Not saying he is the guy as of yet BUT just saying based on what we have been seeing in his last two games where some like MK believe he saved our season w/ that pen save vs Spurs. Long may it continue.

12 Feb 2018 15:28:27
I think we might see Mignolet on Wednesday.