Liverpool Banter Archive December 12 2017

12 Dec 2017 19:41:09
For the first time today I watched Naby Keita for an entire game, during the Wolfsubrg vs RBL Leipzig. My feelings are a bit mixed and I would like to hear the thoughts of others. From everything I saw, he truly has world class ball control and dribbling abilities, but when it comes to passing, he either prefers running with the ball (like Can), or at times is over eager to just play one touch, pass-and-move football. This tendency, atleast during the game I was watching resulted in him squandering the ball very often. Would be interested to hear what Ed's thoughts are. Also, the formation that RBL plays is pretty different (atleast to me) and I don't know of a lot of teams playing that formation in the Premier League (4-2-2-2), so I am not sure if him just being a passenger for parts of the game is to do with the formation being played or he is just not hard-working enough.

I can certainly see why Liverpool pushed so hard for the transfer, because he can truly turn out to be a cracking player, but I believe he has some way to go and might require a fair bit of coaching and discipline to realize that world class status (unless its a situation of him being less interested in RBL this term due to his future lying elsewhere from next term) .

P. S: I think the loan is proving useful for Origi and his movement in and around the box looks so much better.

{Ed002's Note - Generally you have nailed it - although you have slipped the words “world class” in, which really isn’t the case. He has often been called out for disappearing in the more important games.}

12 Dec 2017 19:53:24
Got to agree Ed, that as things stand he is no where close to the 'world class' bracket, but from what I have observed in tidbits and today during the entire game, he certainly possesses the qualities to be there. But to achieve that status, as it so often comes down to in football, you've GOT TO HAVE "desire and application" and I have to concur, that is missing from his game right now.

12 Dec 2017 20:28:39
guys what you all have to understand he's 22 he's going to improve with the right coaching what we see now is be far not the finished article.

12 Dec 2017 20:53:31
Make no mistake about it, NK is a beast of a player and his talent is unquestionable. Having said that, he is still rough around the edges as he is still 22 and has a higher ceiling for improvement. Nothing some coaching could not fix as we have seen what Klopp has done with the likes of Can, Lallana, Moreno, Bobbie, Mane, Gomez and of course, Salah.

12 Dec 2017 21:09:45
Are we sure he's 22? He looks older.
Is it another "Rigobert Song" situation?

12 Dec 2017 22:52:27
The same was said about Mane at Southampton, that he'd go missing in games,
He's worked out fine up till lately where the same intensity seems to have waned a bit.

Maybe I'm just been picky.

13 Dec 2017 00:16:58
Interesting read Abba and I too have tried to watch a bit of Leipzig to see him play a bit. Like you say though they play a somewhat strange system and I don’t think the players around him are of the quality of Salah, Mane, Firmino and dare I say it Couts. With the technically gifted players we have the little flicks are more likely to come off. Also he creates space by bursting through the lines which will in turn draw defenders out which makes a ball in behind to our pacey players a much easier ball. You’ve also got the ‘is he really trying’ question which no one knows the answer to.
I also think it’s difficult for any player when they say they are leaving. The fans are quicker to jump on mistakes and criticise as they want to justify why they don’t need you anyway. As a lot have with Couts on here and other sites myself included I think it’s only natural. You split up with your bird and you say ‘I never loved her anyway’ when all along it’s tearing you up inside.
I think I’ve come to the conclusion I’ll just wait and see. I can’t believe how much Ox has improved and is improving since we signed him so whatever Naby has I’m sure we will see him improve hugely over the next few years. Being that many people I’ve spoken to tell me he was the best midfielder in the bundesliga last season that makes me excited to see what will come from him.

13 Dec 2017 00:18:36
Lfcder

Mane is trying to hard to get back his previous form, and most likely feels under pressure due to how good salah is playing at the minute.

Mane needs to chill out and remember it's a team sport.

13 Dec 2017 03:15:17
To all the above posters - I am in no shape or form calling out NK. I was just curious to hear from other posters if they had seen NK play often this season and if yes, what their observations were and if they were different from what I saw today. I definitely have a good feeling about him, but just a bit apprehensive, since we very easily tend to get carried away when international players are signed.
@Ings, I agree with you that having better players around him might help and I too am curious to see how things turn out when he plays in our formation where the midfield is responsible for making so much happen. My comment around the 'is he working hard enough' stemmed from the fact that so many a times during the match today I saw him just strolling around where there was a good opportunity to make a gut busting run into the box and provide support. Again, it could very well be there formation and the instructions he could have been given, but we will have to wait until next season to find out and let's just hope he lives up to the expectations and settles in as seamlessly as another African has this year :)
Also, it's a strange scenario with Mane. It seems like everything was just great until a couple of weeks ago, when he was benched for a game and since then I sense some frustration in him. Also it could very well be the Salah effect and how he (Mane) is no longer the star man of the team (which he so often was last year) . As long as he channels his competitiveness to generate healthy competition, it's all good (similar to the Suarez-Sturridge situation in 13/ 14) but if he let's this get to him, then the team might suffer.

13 Dec 2017 03:50:42
Naby is only 22. People are expecting him to deliver world class performances on a consistent basis which is just unfair. He did not choose his price tag, LFC did and Naby deserves time to develop into a world class performer that his talent merits. Just look at Modric, Vidal, Kante who found their footing in their mid twenties.

13 Dec 2017 06:13:47
Keita is an excellent player and will put a lot of midfielders to shame in the league. Do not worry. I don’t usually get my hopes high on Liverpool signings unless they are class above the reference line. He will boss our midfield! We need to sign a holding mid to partner him though!

12 Dec 2017 16:26:25
Hi Eds, just wanted to ask your opinion, at the moment everyone's priority is top 4, do you see that shifting to top 3 anytime soon. The reason I ask is this was the only year with top 4 and Europa league winners going into champions league, if memory serves me correctly, in the future, if an English team wins the Europa league, they qualify at the expense of the fourth placed team. With the strength of the likes of city, United, Chelsea, us, Tottenham and arsenal, and the fact that any third place finish in the group stages go down to Europa, I think we will start to see English teams winning the Europa more often so top 4 is no longer a guarantee.

{Ed002's Note - Clubs will continue to do the best they can. Liverpool's target is first place.}

12 Dec 2017 17:49:29
Fair enough reply ed, thanks for your time.

12 Dec 2017 18:18:53
Clubs should be looking to win all trophies on offer regardless. If its the incentives they are after, such clubs don't deserve success. The Europa should be treated as a worthy competition in its own right, not just a backdoor to qualifying for UCL.

{Ed002's Note - Other countries and many EPL sides have taken it seriously.}

12 Dec 2017 20:36:59
Chelsea will do next season.

{Ed002's Note - if the need to I am sure that they will. That is way they have been so successful in the last 10 or 12 years and clubs like Liverpool haven’t.}

12 Dec 2017 22:06:22
Liverpool is the only team I follow will all my heart and passion, but that comment by Ed2 is right on the money! We (including players, owners and fans) have all been too complacent to challenge for any serious trophies in the last decade or so. I largely think it's a mentality thing as well. Every time we have been close to getting our hands on a trophy, we have bottled it for some reason or another. Say what you may, clubs like Chelsea and City have not thrived just cuz of the money pumped into the teams (though that has largely helped) but they have induced a winning mentality and anything less than that will NOT be entertained. Yes, they switch out managers often and sell players which perplexes a lot of teams, but it's all done keeping a goal and objective in mind and that goal is to WIN, not just a few game, but Trophies! Really hope we can count ourselves amongst the elite soon again.

13 Dec 2017 08:23:15
Ed2 drops the mic.

12 Dec 2017 15:50:58
The winner of the charity cup game will win "The Matt Hawker Cup" after ed001s best friend who just died from leukaemia. I do hope we can do this once a year :)

12 Dec 2017 16:02:10
Fair play. let's hope its a great game in memory of Ed1's friend.

12 Dec 2017 16:32:08
Sorry to hear about your friend Ed001. A nice thing to do this event in memory of him!

{Ed001's Note - thank you mate, I just hope my team does me proud now.}

12 Dec 2017 18:04:28
You can count on us ed1. BTW, what abt starting line up, formation and tactics? I suggest we go all out attack .

{Ed001's Note - I am counting on you to understand fluid dynamics and use that as our tactical base to flow over, around and under the opposition......}

12 Dec 2017 18:24:24
Hope we can do your friend Matt proud Ed and that the match for this trophy becomes an annual event for years to come (oh and like watching Brazil are the first winners of the cup for you sir ⚽️🇧🇷👍)

{Ed001's Note - no pressure on you like but it does mean a lot!}

12 Dec 2017 19:29:52
The only fluid dynamics us lot know involves beer 😂.

12 Dec 2017 19:38:52
With your tactical genius we can’t go wrong 😜.

12 Dec 2017 21:53:35
are there enough posters frow switzerland ed to play a match there? ;)
looking forward to the livestream, I'm sure you'll get slated for the squad rotation ed.

13 Dec 2017 08:25:23
Or you know, Irish posters v English. Just saying.

13 Dec 2017 08:51:01
I know there was an entry fee for players but if other posters want to support is there a JustGiving or something?

13 Dec 2017 18:19:07
How about wools v scousers. Nah what am I thinking, we'd never get 11 scousers on here.

12 Dec 2017 10:35:22
Ed1,

Always appreciate your opinions. You've probably given your opinion on this lots but what's your take on the Gerrard v Lampard v Scholes argument. Who was the all round better player?

I just ask because Toni Kroos tweeted that it was Scholes. Obviously my bias says Gerrard but would love your take.

{Ed001's Note - tough one that. Lampard made the absolute most of his ability but he was the least naturally gifted. Scholes was a wonderful passer and a good goal scorer, he was not so good at tackling but knew how to get away with nasty little fouls which should have seen him booked. Gerrard was a driving force with the most natural talent but he should have been more. He should have been the complete midfielder but he focused so much on trying to score that he forgot about the rest of the game and never made the most of the talent he had for tackling and spent too much time looking to play Hollywood balls to the detriment of the quick short passing game. They were all great in different ways to be honest.}

12 Dec 2017 11:17:17
So ed who was best? ;)

{Ed001's Note - best passer was Scholes, best goalscorer was Lampard but Gerrard was the best all rounder.}

12 Dec 2017 12:13:30
I think Xabi was a more complete midfielder Harry, Gerrard was class and will always be a legend, but Xabi for me, was a better player.

12 Dec 2017 12:25:58
Xabi Alonso was better than all 3 of them.

12 Dec 2017 12:43:23
"he could find my missing gf with his passes" hahaha.

12 Dec 2017 12:45:38
Alonso was fantastic but if I could only have one of him and Gerrard I'd pick Gerrard every time.

I almost regret him not going to Chelsea in 2005, at a club with top tier resources he would have been a Ballon d'Or contender.

12 Dec 2017 15:46:21
Scholes was the best of the 3 IMO.

12 Dec 2017 15:47:15
And backwards .

12 Dec 2017 17:00:44
When xabi Alonso left Liverpool the ass fell out the whole thing he was different class an never replaced properly instead we got aquilani, nuff said.

13 Dec 2017 00:42:46
You forget the 2007/ 08 season Alonso spent a lot of time on the bench and Rafa wanted to replace him with Barry! I think when the arse fell out of Liverpool there was more than just losing Alonso going on. Great player and I loved him but he was certainly no Gerrard!

12 Dec 2017 08:26:54
On a light note. How good has Gomez been? He looks the part at right back, doesn't he? A few million for a player that hopefully could stay for 10 years! Bargain!

12 Dec 2017 08:47:27
Should be playing at CB though. Lovren and Klavan like to think they're these quality ball playing CBs when in fact our best ball playing CB plays at RB. Also our best tackler. Make him Captain and put him at CB I say :)

12 Dec 2017 09:20:15
Fenton, he will play there before long, although I reckon it'll happen in preseason. Throw him in to soon and he could lose all confidence, especially the way our defense is under the microscope at the minute.

I am a huge fan of the lad and wouldn’t be surprised if he was a future captain. He’s vocal and he has come through the ringer with his injuries so he will know it can be taken away at any point.

12 Dec 2017 09:22:09
Fantastic to see him improve so quickly and look so assured in every game. but let's slow down and not put to much pressure on the young man.

12 Dec 2017 09:37:34
I just hope he stays clear of injuries and keeps working hard and we have a special player for years to come.

12 Dec 2017 11:19:23
Gomez is the future for LFC at CB, that much is clear. Lovren and Klavan are very solid at playing out of the back esp. Klavan of late. Now to make Gomez capt., that's kind of a stretch, don't you think?

12 Dec 2017 12:38:31
That part of my reply was a bit tongue in cheek BRover! Although I do see him as a future captain for us. Has all the attributes and the quality to be a consistent starter for the next 10 years, IF he stays injury free!

13 Dec 2017 08:57:36
Isn't he the England U21 captain at the moment?