Liverpool Banter Archive November 11 2015

 

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11 Nov 2015 20:57:50
Evening eds and reds,
Just wanted to see what's the general fan (and hopefully eds) opinion on Firmino so far.
Have to admit I'm a big fan of his and was crying out for him to be signed for the last 2 years but I've been largely underwhelmed so far. Not that I'm writing him off or anything I do think he'll come good and since Klopps come in he's been improving by the game. Just with Sturridge coming back soon, Benteke banging them in, Lallana looking a Klopp favourite its hard to see space in the starting XI for him to be getting the run of games he clearly needs.
Opinions please.

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{Ed002's Note - So far it is not working out well for a player that the club paid significantly over the top for. Give him time.}

11 Nov 2015 21:23:18
I feel he hasn't been given much of a run at his preferred no.10 to establish himself but he's shown enough to make me think I want to see him given a chance to establish himself there. I think he'll create real problems running at defences and he has an eye for a pass.

His biggest problem is that's also probably Coutinho and even Llalana's best position as both aren't quite as effective on the wing due to pace. Hopefully Kopp will figure it out soon enough.

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11 Nov 2015 22:15:05
I Think he has done OK considering he had the injury you can tell he has talent he is able to just glide past players without having any real acceleration fantastic with his feet in tight spaces correct me if I am wrong baring the palace game he had two in two for assists? he should of really started the palace game.

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11 Nov 2015 22:47:41
We are top heavy with number 10's. I think the Summer will see a very significant one moving and i don't think it will be Firmino.

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11 Nov 2015 22:49:10
Good player. I have said it before and received criticism but he is one of these players that you don't always notice how important they can be or are to the team.

Yes he will get goals and assists. How many a season, I'm unsure.

But his contributions in link up play, runs in behind, pressing is going to a lot of the time go - I want to say unnoticed- but erm, ill go for underated!

I guarantee when we start to click under klopp and the interest comes in for Roberto, we will see on here that we can easily replace him! As his numbers won't match up with his actual contribution, that when countinho scores or hendo breaks into the box, it will have come from fir dragging people out of position with his run. That's the type of player he is going to be!

Personally I love him already. He just has that about him!

Let the criticism start 😊.

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11 Nov 2015 23:19:49
Ed, you often say Liverpool paid over the odds for Firmino but we and plenty of other English clubs have been overpaying for players for years, it really is nothing new.
My opinion regarding Firmino is that, you can only have 2 of Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino on the pitch. It is way too narrow playing all 3 as all look to occupy the same spaces. I think he is the most complete out of the three so I expect him to start shining soon, after all I put him in my fantasy last week. Hope to see a three of Ibe Firmino and Coutinho next game.

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{Ed002's Note - So because Liverpool paid over the odds for other players you think that justifies paying too much for Firmino? A agree it is difficult to line up with all three.}

12 Nov 2015 00:53:38
i like the guy and i think he needs time damm he's only just arrived at new country, but i also agree three can't play the number 10 role at same time so if we keep all three one or two need to find something new or be transformed into a winger and i think that should be lallana as i think the other two, coutinho and firminio are better and more creative number 10s.

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12 Nov 2015 02:43:43
I think it is far, far, too early to be even saying you're "underwhelmed" by Firmino. I think in recent games he's showed his top quality and potential.

Let's look at how things have played out. A lot of what has contributed to your "underwhelming" feeling can be blamed on Rodgers.

Rodgers apparently had to be "convinced" to sign Firmino (because Rodgers is clueless), and it showed:

First, he kept Firmino sitting on the bench, only subbing him in very late and out of position. Remember Rodgers making up lame excuses to keep Firmino on the bench early on? (BR kept saying it was because Firmino wasn't "match fit" due to playing in Copa, even though Coutinho had also played in the Copa. ) .

Second, then, when Rodgers finally started Firmino, it was with our second string and then it was far out of position. not just on the wing, but at wingback!

Third, Firmino gets injured.

Then Rodgers is fired. The People Rejoice. Klopp arrives.

Since Klopp's arrival, Firmino has gotten better and better, especially as Klopp has had the foresight to play him in his actual positions: no10 or false 9.

From his maurauding display against Bournemouth, including that filthy nutmeg and a few strikes that just missed, to key assists against Chelsea and Rubin, with another nutmeg and brilliant pass to Milner, who flubbed it.

Have patience. He's going to be one of our best in the next few years, my prediction.

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12 Nov 2015 06:55:13
By the beginning of next season the Number 10 problem will have sorted itself out - either Coutinho or Firmino will no longer be at Liverpool. Given that we paid way way way over the top for Firmino, that suggests that the player tha will move on is Coutinho.

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12 Nov 2015 13:25:01
Disagree with Ed here. Firmino is a very good player and to me, has shown flashes of skill and vision in the recent games he`s played. He just needs time to get in rhythm and make better choices because at the moment, it looks like he`s rushing things and he needs to just settle down and let the game come to him. With Klopp who knows all about him from his Hoffenheim days, he`ll be fine.

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12 Nov 2015 14:45:04
I am still very excited by him, not seen a lot yet but to be honest I wasnt expecting much from him until, the very least, second half of the season.

But I think he will be massive for us, I genually think in time he will our star man.

Since klippity came in you can see how much better he plays in his prefered position, and the Capital One cup match was his best so far I think in the number 10. The more he plays the better he is going to get.

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12 Nov 2015 15:04:30
I actually don't think we overpaid for him at all. He reminds me of Suarez when on the ball, he'll come good in time. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

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11 Nov 2015 18:09:43
Hi guys
Is the any genuine rumours of players where interested in?

Thanks will.

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{Ed002's Note - Read the posts.}

11 Nov 2015 23:00:14
I can't believe the ed's at times wirh reply's like this. How can you expect people to follow this site say in day out. I haven't found any answer's to this question either.

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{Ed002's Note - Other people will quickly get pissed off if I simply repeat things over and over because knuckle dragging morons like you can't be bothered to read the posts. Fee free to go elsewhere.}

12 Nov 2015 00:59:27
I can't believe posters don't scroll through the many posts on the various pages the Ed's give us.

The various Ed's give us insight / information that no tabloid paper would give you; explain things even when they know they will end up regretting it (although a lot of the posters thank them for their explanations etc. ) ; give us an insight to current players, future players etc.

The above should tell you enough why a lot of us follow the site - also big up to most posters - it's good when there's a debate (not after a loss though lol) .

I'd scroll or use the search facility!

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12 Nov 2015 13:46:41
I read the posts pretty much daily so this problem generally doesn't affect me. But, just as a suggestion, the only thing we can search in the search function right now is a players name, or ed002/ed001. I am simply suggesting this as a method to save you eds time; perhaps you could update your transfer responses in a way that they stand out compared to others? For example, ed002's transfer update: .
It may be too much of a hassle, or may not help at all, but thought I'd mention it.

By the way, the ed002 appreciation page is brilliant. Got some genuine laughs reading it yesterday.

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11 Nov 2015 17:53:03
Long time reader, sporadic poster.

Interesting start for Klopp, can see his methods coming through but yet to properly click with the team although that's understandable.

My question is not related to Liverpool as much, but with the rumours in Spain about Catalonia wanting to become a separate entity would Barcelona push for a breakaway Euro league.

I think it was ED002 who talked about this in posts and mentioned two clubs looked to create one, I assume it was the two Spanish clubs?

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{Ed002's Note - The breakaway league will happen regardless of whatever happens with Catalona and Barcelona will not be joining any Catalan league. If any side is eventually impacted by such an event then it would be the Barcelona B side. Meetings have been with Spanish RFEF to discuss the complications that arise when the breakaway clubs run for the pan-European league. The Spanish clubs know that opens up the Real Madrid and Barcelona second string sides to La Liga - so they want assurances that (a) they can only use the extant stadia, and not the main stadia, and (b) the television rights will then be shared equally - regardless. This has been raised in a meeting of the breakaway sides in Monte Carlo last year with UEFA present and an unbiased journalist sat in to moderate - at the agreement of all parties. Some clubs (three voted for it this past August) are still looking to accelerate the pan-European league breakaway. They won't get it before all clubs agree.}

11 Nov 2015 19:15:38
What will happen to league winners etc, would there be a European competition for them to qualify for or will it just be domestic, or would there be a relegation from the pan euro league.

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{Ed002's Note - It remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between a dozen or more clubs.

Without going in to too much detail: (a) A number of clubs take the opportunity a once or twice a year to discuss various issues including changes in rules, television rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. These discussions, the last of which were in late August in Monte Carlo, also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions. The next meeting will be in December. (b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues. (c) The clubs would renegotiate their television rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc.. (d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen. (e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs want it to happen as soon as possible (2018) and they have the support of a third club but most are looking at 2022 being a good option. Realistically, a few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2027 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

There is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis.}

11 Nov 2015 19:49:24
Cheers ed.

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11 Nov 2015 20:09:01
It will be the end of football as European football can be very boring, so it will not interest people and there will be less ticket sales, less TV interest so less TV package sales, the interest just won't be there.

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11 Nov 2015 20:58:24
It'll never happen.

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{Ed002's Note - It is going to happen Chris.}

11 Nov 2015 20:58:29
Didn't you listen to a word ed002 said mighty red? . He said "all the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league". So I don't know were you got this idea that there would be less interest.

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11 Nov 2015 21:06:56
At last. Somebody uses the correct plural = Stadia!

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11 Nov 2015 21:23:49
The television money will only go with it if it interest people as people will simply not pay.

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{Ed002's Note - You are looking at it from the perspective of a Liverpool supporter who has seen very little European football in recent years. There have already been approaches made by media companies from across the world.}

11 Nov 2015 22:26:00
Not at all ed2 I have seen plenty of european football over the years, a lot of it can be very boring, we will see if it happens what level of interest it brings but it could be very much the death of football. European football is meant to be unique once it loses its appeal to fans we will then see what happens, I am sure playing in front of half full stadia is what's it all about then.

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{Ed002's Note - It certainly won't be like that. It will be a step change.}

11 Nov 2015 23:28:33
Catalonia will never gain it's independence.

Look at Scotland!

Democracy doesn't matter in these cases when political power and greed are at the forefront of an agenda to keep them together.

Anyway, Spain is already on it's back-side, so the central power will push (in what ever ways or means) to keep them together.

It's all corrupt, just like the two biggest teams in Spain.

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11 Nov 2015 23:57:27
So say the best teams from around Europe go into the league, is there relagation and promotion to the league? Where does it leave domestic leagues? The epl would be poor without say city Arsenal Chelsea.

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{Ed002's Note - I have already answered that above.}

12 Nov 2015 02:23:17
I can only hope that once it happens it is a resounding failure with and the outrage from the fans is such that it fails.

The only reason people even care about derby days, competitions like the FA cup, European cup, Premier League, Serie A is the history behind them. Take out some of the biggest contributors to the history of these competitions and place them in some nonsensical new European league where tickets prices are even more ridiculous and fans become completely alienated.

Everyone knows football needs restructuring but my god I would absolutely hate this 'solution'. Are there any fans that would actually want this?

Forget English football for a moment I can't imagine Torino being invited to play in this league along with Juventus despite it being a huge Italian game. Espanyol and Barca? Lazio - Roma? Chelsea - West Ham? Tottenham - Arsenal? Would we have to say bye to some of these fixtures forever?

I know ed002 said it will happen, I sincerely hope however small the chance, that it doesn't and if it does I hope it is a stupendous failure. It would in my opinion be one of the tragedies of football to see the history leave in the pursuit of a European breakaway. For me it can be sad enough to see big clubs with history fall down the ladder because of financial mismanagement like Leeds, Rangers, Portsmouth but at least there is the notion that one day they will play, however infrequent, competitive games with other storied clubs. To see big clubs move away completely would be even worse.

Apologies for the long post.

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12 Nov 2015 09:00:04
completely agree Imred. i think a lot of people would lose interest.

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{Ed002's Note - No more football then.}

12 Nov 2015 10:35:49
It will happen.

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12 Nov 2015 12:34:52
I love the concept of 'a lot of European games as boring so no-one will watch this league'. Cause Watford vs Stoke is a fixture on your calendar each year?

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12 Nov 2015 13:25:52
Be careful what you wish for.

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11 Nov 2015 17:29:23
What's your opinion on Chirivella? Seen a little of him, which I liked. Nice to see some young lads getting a chance.

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11 Nov 2015 18:15:21
I have my settings towards females on tindr chip, he wouldn't be my type unfortunately. Edd001 might know more.

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{Ed001's Note - the missus won't let me use tindr sadly, I believe Ed003 uses it to find swingers for his weekly parties though, so he might be able to help.

As for Chirivella, I really think this lad is going to be awesome for us.}

11 Nov 2015 16:20:53
Is there even a remote chance Klopp could convince Ter Stegen to the club? He doesn't seem to get gametime at Barca, and they possibly wouldn't be willing to sell. Unless the player himself tied to force the move.

All hypothetical obviously but he would be my first choice for a goalkeeper signing. Again hypothetically how much would Barcelona rate him at to consider a deal? I'd say at least 15 million.

id say a defence to pick from of

Ter Stegen.
Flanaghan.
Moreno.
Clyne.
Ilori.
Sahko.
Lovren.
Skrtle.
Gomez.

Is a solid one for many years to come. I really hope this one comes to fruition more than others linked to us.

A defensive foundation of the above would be very solid and a base to build the squad around.

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{Ed002's Note - The release clause would provide a guide to Barcelona's expectations - if they wanted to sell which they don't but suspect an offer equivalent to that release clause of €80 would tempt them.}

11 Nov 2015 16:44:39
Even psg aren't that stupid.

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11 Nov 2015 17:37:00
May I ask what the obsession is with Illori?
If he was better than what he had he would of stayed.
He hasn't had a look in at Villa either. What makes people think he could come and do a job for us?

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11 Nov 2015 17:42:12
Gazza, I think a lot of people saw him perform well for Portugal in the U21's. He has a lot of good attributes that suit the Premier league, but there is a huge step up in class from the U21's. I think some just want to see how he would get on.

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11 Nov 2015 18:03:07
Didn't know the release clause was so high so that's ones out then.

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{Ed002's Note - The release clause itself is of no consequence to Liverpool of course, but Barcelona are not looking to sell.}

11 Nov 2015 18:52:17
Maybe if the manager who bought him yet could not be arsed about his career, had had the backbone to give him a chance like Klopp has the backbone to play our youth, we would beable to tell if he`s good enuff or not. Ron, footie is footie anywhere you play it. Why? because it`s still 11 vs 11 regardless. Now levels may differ but that`s about it. if he can play for a talented Portuguese U21 team then why shouldn`t he be given a chance here? That`s the only way we1`ll know if he can step up. Him not playing uder BR is irrelevant because Tex never saw the field under BR bar the Fulham game and now many are saying he should be starting aafter his good perf vs Bournmouth. Let the kids play and we`ll judge then. Not before.

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11 Nov 2015 18:58:54
Cheers Ron.
I know he is fast and doesn't hesitate from a ariel challenge. Is a shame that he had two seasons on loan, promised (I could be wrong) a fair chance and getting a 1st team place and then loaned out again where he isn't getting a look in.
I know the eds have mentioned about a loan to buy and Villa have a new management team. But if he doesn't get a look in they won't be buying surely?
I remember all the hype about Luis Alberto and that came to nothing for us.

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11 Nov 2015 17:33:55
I don't think ter Stegen is the best we can get, specially considering how much he would cost. No value for the price at all. Sometimes he looks like Neuer, others he looks like Mignolet on his worst days!

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12 Nov 2015 00:04:06
Problem with the team you've named is that skrtel would still be first choice.

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11 Nov 2015 15:02:33
Eds other than Mustafi and Zieler, who would you go for in January? And who would your choice of striker be if we had to replace Sturridge? Thanks.

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{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't go for anyone, as we are short of money. I would rather we used the youth and waited until the summer.}

11 Nov 2015 15:23:25
If we are short on money Ed001 do you think Klopp won't be given any money in January (unless he sells a player) and spend big in the summer!?

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{Ed001's Note - I would think they will look to avoid buying in January, unless a bargain can be had. It is more about trimming the squad to get rid of the excess fat.}

11 Nov 2015 17:34:07
If anyone can find a bargain it has to be Klopp?

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11 Nov 2015 11:38:54
Ed1 I really like Rossitier as a player and hopefully should get some more game when he is fit, do you see him as a replacement for Allen without us spending needless money and in your opinion is he a DM or does he have a lot more to his game?

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{Ed001's Note - he could easily replace Allen, and more. He has a lot more to his game, potentially, than being just a defensive midfielder. He needs to be brought on now though, before the promise goes to waste.}

11 Nov 2015 12:43:34
How about we sell Allen in January, and bring up Rossitter and Chirivella to the first team squad and see how they get on rest of the season, and make a decision if we need to buy someone in the summer?

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{Ed001's Note - I would be very happy with that personally, I don't see any point in keeping Allen at all. He offers nothing.}

11 Nov 2015 13:01:10
Have seen him play live a couple times and can see signs of a good player, but played holding (believe it was a Europa league game if memory is correct) . Looked tidy and comfortable on the ball but was hard to judge him as don't think he was given the licence to do more. Could anyone possibly enlighten me as to his strengths (eg passing, positioning, ball control etc)?

Also hope more youth get a chance as seem to have highly regarded or talented players (Suso, texeria, ilori) who although may not have made it, think will struggle to reach the heights they could have as most of them have to wait to years to be given be given a chance or a run out.

Which is a shame as although normally think should try win everything but in past 4-5 years getting back to a top 4 should be a priority and would have preferred to see a mixed of youth and experience in cups.

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11 Nov 2015 13:19:34
Still think we may need one more centre mid, if Lucas and hendo is first choice, and say can and rossiter second, unless we play Milner there, which I don't want, we can't rotate for Europa or cup games without issues considering rossiter and hendo are currently out.

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11 Nov 2015 12:17:53
Hopefully Klopp will give him the chance, because i remember Rossiter as a 15 year old bossing the midfield completley vs 21 year olds. He is one of the best passers with both feet and has a very calm presence, dare i say he reminds me a bit of Alonso in his style. I don't want to hype him up or anything but he has great potential. He just keeps getting small injuries here and there, hopefully he will get over them once his body is fully devoloped.

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11 Nov 2015 13:26:41
How about we keep Allen and Sell Milner? . High wages, 30 years old, Very poor output so far?

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11 Nov 2015 14:59:30
Good idea Harry. Better yet sell both and bring in a wide man with some modicum of ability, determination and speed.

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11 Nov 2015 15:14:36
Agree with puzzled, the issues of Milner and Allen are separate, as he's playing Milner out wide. Doubt Milner will leave though, who will match his wages.

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11 Nov 2015 15:18:55
It's awfully risky to rely on a teenager as backup for your first team squad.

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11 Nov 2015 15:39:38
Would you buy Milner and pay him his wage demands of 150K+ Harry? We probably even haven't paid all of his £5m signing on fee, and at this point, if we manage to find a buyer who can afford his wages, we literally will have to pay Milner money to sell him.

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{Ed001's Note - his signing on fee will be paid as part of his wages, spread out throughout the length of his contract. That is the standard way to pay those fees.}

11 Nov 2015 16:00:25
Just one question.

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{Ed002's Note - We are not going to get in to that at this time Marc.}

11 Nov 2015 17:45:56
Ok. I understand.

Marc.

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11 Nov 2015 17:57:24
I'd be happy to sell Allen and keep Lucas, Hendo, Milner, Can, Rossiter, Chirivella as our CMs but I'd be even happier if we brought in a kongdogbia or Scneiderlin type player to compete/back up Lucas. I still feel we'd be very exposed if he got injured. and our luck in that department has not been great.

Aside from that we need a top CB and a GK, and unless Flanno can prove his fitness over the second half of the season perhaps a FB to back up Clyne and Moreno.

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11 Nov 2015 18:54:58
Milner and Allen should be shown the door.

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11 Nov 2015 18:54:33
Ed002, I envy you. How does it feel to have your own appreciation page :) .

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{Ed002's Note - I assume you have signed up for the Ed002 Appreciation page - tinyurl.com/c6j7t2m }

11 Nov 2015 11:34:25
do any of the eds or reds know if sturridge is training again with the first team squad again or is he still doing non contact gym work?

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11 Nov 2015 12:22:20
Klopp said he's training outside, not sure if that is on his own or with the team but he will be running etc.

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11 Nov 2015 11:34:11
Partly to move us on from the quiet fan thing, partly to defend a guy who I think has got more grief than he deserves recently. James Milner ranks 7th in the list of most chances created in the league this season. He ranks a long way behind the leader (Ozil's made 54 chances, Milner 'only' 27) and ahead of any Utd, City or Liverpool team mate.

I know that stats aren't proof but is suggests he's a lot more valuable to the team than the casual viewer realises.

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11 Nov 2015 12:23:26
I don't think there is a casual viewer on this site, certainly a lot of analysts.

Does it say about the amount of chances he wastes? I hope he comes good, I was very happy when we first signed him and though it was a coop.

Fingers crossed he still has time to get going again.

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11 Nov 2015 12:44:01
Substituting your view of a player because of stats (the particular one anyway) is what makes one a casual viewer. At 29 years old and having played for about 11 years in the EPL I expect a lot more from Milner.

His passes more often than not don't reach their target and that's while playing simple passes, not the spectacular passes Coutinho attempts. His crossing has been hyped out of proportion as has Clyne's. He is slow to release the ball when outside the box which slows the play down and means that there could be issues with his reading of the game. He has good stamina but it is wasted because he appears to not know how and where to press.

He is definitely not a central midfielder and we have a lot better and younger options on the wings, who will improve given time. With him being the highest earner at the club all we have done by signing him is to impede the progress of our youth and provide ourselves with an overpriced sub-par backup.

All this is simply my opinion of course.

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11 Nov 2015 12:45:26
"Chances created" includes passes from which shots are take and more importantly any delivery from set-pieces, and Milner takes almost all of our corners, under Rodgers anyway, so that will have bumped-up his chances created stat.

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11 Nov 2015 12:49:12
What constitutes a chance created? What quality is there? For example in Spurs vs Arsenal, Ozil supposedly created 7 chances and Alli didn't create one, but Ozil was rubbish all game and did nothing really of note whilst Alli bossed that midfield and made all sorts of opportunities for Spurs.

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11 Nov 2015 13:22:41
And hopeful crosses may count as Chances created too.

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11 Nov 2015 12:04:47
I think you will find that these stats mean absolutley nothing, a 2 yard pass sideways and coutinho shooting from 35 yards counts as a 'chance' him getting tackled and someone shooting at goal from the freekick counts as a 'chance', him taking a corner and it hitting a liverpool body part first counts as a 'chance' If it said clear cut chances that would be completley different and you will find that he has created very very few of those clear cut chances.

He has been very bad and casual viewers or not he has done nothing to deserve to walk into our starting line up. He has been awful and a blind goat could see that!

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11 Nov 2015 14:04:59
Kenny, i'd say we're all casual observers on this site.
Phoinix, you shouldn't base an opinion on stats, they certainly don't give the whole picture, but stats should inform opinions, they're much more useful than conjecture.
Sabona, as for these stats meaning nothing they do have a correlation with the more creative players so to dismiss them out of hand is a little arrogant (and I'm being polite) .

My point is not that milner's great, just that he's better than this site thinks he is.

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11 Nov 2015 15:46:03
All, our manager keeps picking him so he sees something. Can we please stop slating Milner and any other player in the squad.
New manager, new chance for all so stop bitching.

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11 Nov 2015 17:07:32
ScapeGoat. He's awful but the squad as a whole is mid table.

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11 Nov 2015 03:42:15
Ed002 if you are around and have time could you tell us the story behind the origin of how JK came to be called Klipperty?

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{Ed002's Note - It came from him having a horse called Bamboo Harvester as a child.}

11 Nov 2015 11:05:00
Klipperty Klopp
Clippity Clop
Neigh.

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11 Nov 2015 12:08:06
Makes you want to bang your head against a wall it really does :/.

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11 Nov 2015 13:03:58
A21Z your heading for immortality on the Edds 002 Facebook appreciation page. Congratulations.

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11 Nov 2015 13:27:00
I prefer 'Klopp of the Kop'.

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11 Nov 2015 13:39:38
I just visited the facbook ed002 appreciation page, Harry I NEVER pictured you to look like that!

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11 Nov 2015 03:03:06
Below is a superb comment posted by a dritmund suporter. Pls read and hopefully people understand what negativity does

"Greetings from Mainz, Germany. I can assure you, 2/3 of the fans enter the stadium one hour prior to the match start and cheer their team during warm-up. Of course, there are people leaving before the whistle, but you can count them with two hands. In general, people will stay and applaud even if the match was lost. You acknowledge the effort, the fight.
A little off-topic, but another thing that comes into my mind is the way how (some) LFC fans see their players, especially when they are underperforming. Here in Mainz, even without having such a background as LFC we regard ourselves as a family, too. Small one, granted, but a family nonetheless. And there are things we don’t do very easily with family members. Bashing them for instance, and oozing a plethora of comments about how unable, rubbish or worthless they are. You just actually don’t do that with anyone. I think the players in Dortmund or in Mainz perform so well because they know that even if they should have a negative run.
Take a look at Mhktarian in Dortmund for example. His first season was horrible, his second very mediocre. Visible quality yes, but he just would continue to make bad decisions in the majority of cases. Jugding by my impressions of the last five weeks, I am sure that most of the fans would have wanted to trade him if he was playing in England. But both managers Klopp and Tuchel, his team and the fans believed in in him. There has not been a single word doubting his value for Dortmund. And since the beginning of this season, he is paying back, you can see, feel and smell his dedication to do so. Five superb goals and six assists in 11 matches. There are quite a number of examples like him in the Bundesliga.
I am thinking about Origi, Can and Millner, and I wonder what LFC could achieve with an atmosphere like that. "

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11 Nov 2015 08:17:35
Ticket prices are the reason the most passionate Liverpool fans are not at the game. Blame it on the low minimum wage and the ever increasing cost of living. It's just too expensive these days for the real fans. Liverpool is actually full of deprived areas and poor people, like myself.

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11 Nov 2015 09:12:20
Availability is the key issue for local fans.

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11 Nov 2015 10:27:02
Locals should get priority, should have a ticket box in town for x amout of seats.

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11 Nov 2015 12:13:44
As I do agree that the average working joe is getting priced out of seats and that the tickets are way over priced take my home town of hartlepool 20 pound to watch a lower league team is a disgrace but with the tickets in the town for local people is abit harsh isn't john? where a worldwide family and it shouldn't just be for the locals I'd love to be able to afford to take my son down to anfield but at the prices I could afford a last minute deal in the sun once you put petrol and ticket prices into it. I'm sure I read somewhere you could get a bayern Munich season ticket and still have enough left over to fly there and back cheaper than it would cost for a arsenal season ticket. which is a joke in my opinion and the sooner they lower ticket costs and make it affordable to all people not just the upper class the better it will be atmosphere wise and people staying until the final wistle because if I was paying the price of tickets these days and saving just to watch my team play I would be a little disappointed paying all that money and travelling up to see my team get beat.

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{Ed001's Note - what happens if you are a local working away as well? Do they get priority or do they no longer get classed as locals? Do you have to be born in the area? The whole idea is silly. Making a bigger ground with cheaper tickets is the best answer.}

11 Nov 2015 12:20:41
Anyone else read that in their head but in Hans Grubers voice from die hard?

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11 Nov 2015 12:48:04
I don't agree with giving any priority to anyone, locals or tourists, and we have already been over this discussion plenty of time.

John Lemon, try not to be so narrow-minded.

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11 Nov 2015 10:08:48
Its a bizzare statement the people who attentd the match need to be from lower class. Football has become like a movie, Where there is excitement you have cheers and claps.
Who attended the matches 2 years ago. If i remeber correctly we had excellent home and away support when we finished second.

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11 Nov 2015 14:31:09
Good point ed didn't think of that especially seen as though I work quite a lot just to makes ends meat.

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11 Nov 2015 22:03:00
Depends on ones definition of lower class though does it not Mr glory? Also I only said x amount of tickets should be available in the center of town. Like a thousand maybe. I think it would encourage more locals to go. Also not everyone fancies going anfield or buying online. Proposing an idea that is not in effect is not narrow minded. Dismissing it in the blink of and eye is though. The rael ag.

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11 Nov 2015 22:08:08
Clearly not a local like myself if you don't think locals should get some priority for a phew tickets. Not even just 100 tickets. I personally think it would encourage more locals who don't usually go the game to go. Don't see why its such a bad thing. I don't like people who support liverpool when they've never even been to england . That's why there's no passion anymore. Too many non scousers at the match who don't even know any song or sing along.

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10 Nov 2015 23:42:38
Ed001. If you could choose two realistic transfer targets for January who would you pick? (Assuming we had the money situation under control)

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{Ed001's Note - realistic? That's tough. I would suggest Zieler, though I am not sure if he can be considered realistic right now, but he seems the most realistic available keeper in January. I think the next major priority is centre back, so I would look at someone such as Mustafi. The reason I would suggest those two is that both have lived in England as youngsters, so should adapt quickly and not need months to settle in.}

11 Nov 2015 07:32:45
I'd personally go for timo horn the koln goalkeeper. He is fantastic and supposedly has a very low release clause.

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{Ed001's Note - I deliberately chose players who would be likely to adapt quickly, as a January buy needs to make an instant impact.}

11 Nov 2015 07:57:59
So instead of Mustafi why not Ilori and save some money? He has also spent time here and funnily enough he's our player.

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{Ed001's Note - obviously you were not reading the initial post.}

11 Nov 2015 08:27:02
Isn't Illori half english? I thought he grew up in England but was born in Portugal? I, like a lot of others, think it would be wise to give a young centre back like Illori a run in the first team. Can't be much worse than Skrtel imo. Maybe Richards or Okore will get imjured and we will get to see him start a phew for the Villa.

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{Ed001's Note - you are thinking of Eric Dier I think. As for Ilori, I would like to see him back, but this is nothing to do with the original question, so let's drop it from this thread, as any more Ilori posts will have to be deleted from it.}

11 Nov 2015 08:27:06
What I mean Ed is FFP is an issue for us. So transfers are an issue for the club why buy when we have a player already. I agree a keeper is required but certainly not a centre half.

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{Ed001's Note - we still need a centre half in January. Or would you prefer to rely on Lovren and an injury prone Toure as the back ups?}

11 Nov 2015 08:52:34
Both Ilori and Dier were born in England and grew up in Portugal.

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{Ed001's Note - I never knew that. Not sure how it is relevant, it would be if he grew up here, but otherwise he has little experience here and has spent his career with us being farmed out abroad gaining even less experience of life in England.}

11 Nov 2015 08:59:51
Ed001, surely Mustafi would cost around the £20 million mark?

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{Ed001's Note - which is what we paid for Lovren, so what is your point? Valencia are a team that, while no longer in the financial dire straits they were a few years ago, are not really in a position to refuse good offers, so he is attainable if we are willing to pay.

I was answering a question based on there being money to spend, not what I would do in the current circumstances. All these ridiculous questions because no one reads the initial post properly!}

11 Nov 2015 09:47:30
I don't think people aren't reading original post Ed. I see what your were asked and why answered with what you did. Posters are simply saying that there is no need to spend and spend given what we have available and with FFP that's all.

We have wasted a lot of money over last few years. Ideally for me our defence for next season should comprise of the below.

Moreno.
Flanaghan.
Clyne.
Lovren.
Sahko.
Skrtle.
Ilori.
Gomez.

I would give Lovren until the summer to see if he stake a claim and does actually have that opportunity now given Sahko injury. I don't think Toure will get a new contract and I can see Wisdom being sold as well to be honest. But the eight above would be more than capable of being a good defence under Klopp.

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{Ed001's Note - that has nothing to do with the thread though, so please stick to the topic or start a new one to discuss that particular topic. It is bad enough when Harry constantly hijacks every thread to discuss his latest obsession, without everyone else doing it as well!}

11 Nov 2015 09:55:11
Fair point Ed will do no worries.

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{Ed001's Note - cheers, otherwise the original post just gets swamped under and forgotten.}

11 Nov 2015 10:15:15
That was a painful read. Focus on the initial post rather than trying to pull apart what Ed001 replied with. Two realistic signings! Not whether we should/shouldn't sign or spend money.
So on topic, those that are saying we should not sign a CB are you saying we should be strengthened elsewhere?

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11 Nov 2015 11:28:08
I don't think we ''desperately'' need anything in January. A centreback better thank Skrtel and Lovren would be nice, and as has been the case for a long time another GK. I don't think January is the time to go shopping for either of these given what we have in the short term, unless we are drastically off pace in January and Migs is at a major fault for this.
RRZ is very well thought of, as are a few German keepers. I presume is availability is down to the fact he can sign a pre contract for the summer and so Hannover may wish to move him on for some funds.

I don't know much about Mustafi so won't comment on ability or situation. But LFC have gone from a situation of being overloaded with centrebacks, last 2 years t having 1 good one who's out injured,2 below the necessary standard and an old man that may retire at the end of this year.

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11 Nov 2015 12:15:04
Keeper if anything in January for me and that's all. Summer is best time to buy as you have said.

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11 Nov 2015 12:32:29
It would be something if we bought Mustafi and Zieler - a former Everton and a former Manchester United youth player. Would be good fun if they became stars for us :)

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11 Nov 2015 12:42:20
I agree with your logic ed001 but surely that was the logic behind buying mignolet, lovren, lallana, lambert and balotelli. And that didn't turn out very well did it.

Mustafi would be expensive but could do the business but i'd like to see us go for leno first.

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{Ed001's Note - it is not the logic behind the buys that was the problem, it was the choice of players and their abilities that was the issue.}

10 Nov 2015 21:24:43
Are the Echo just copying everything that appears on this site Eds, such as podcasts and loan updates etc?
Get your own I ideas!

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{Ed001's Note - I am sure someone else came up with the idea of podcasts before us to be fair! What on earth happened to the Echo anyway? It used to be an excellent paper years ago, now it is a rag tabloid.}

11 Nov 2015 07:41:35
Same thing that happened to every newspaper - social media.

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11 Nov 2015 08:28:57
Need to make a newspaper that tells the truth. Murdoch will probably buy you out lol.

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11 Nov 2015 09:14:53
It's based in Manchester now.

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