Liverpool Banter Archive November 10 2014

10 Nov 2014 21:37:16
Ed, I just read that you said Sakho could be on his way out because Rodgers doesn't rate him. I also seem to recall a certain bitching session on here around the time we were linked with every centre back on the market, where people were saying Rodgers was stupid trying to buy such bad players for such large fees. With the CBs we have signed signed (5 I think), we haven't got a good CB partnership.
It seems the people you were giving out to for moaning about "bad signings", were in fact correct.

I disagree here. Sakho, Lovren, and Toure are all good Cb`s individually and were good/great at their respective clubs now suddenly they can`t play due to BR`s inability to coach that part of the game and his refusal to get help on that front. They make mistakes and that is fixable provided there is a system in place that allows them to improve and flourish. Skrtl is very error-prone yet is still here. The prob is that the system we employ leaves them exposed. If Chelsea played the system we play, they would struggle too. Until that changes and we change our defensive system, we will struggle as we have for about 3 seasons. Also, Eds have said that Sakho, Ilori, Markovic and Balo were not his choices. If that is the case, why are we buying players he doesn`t want? That only causes chaos, IMO.

11 Nov 2014 03:24:56
Sacky is all over the place. He's a bag of nerves and the way he passes the ball speaks for itself. Skrtel is weak, you'd think a Slovakian with a shaved head and covered in tattoos would dominate his box but he's pulling shirts and holding strikers it's school girl stuff. I don't wanna jump on Lovrens back too soon but he's not the player I thought he'd be in all honesty. Very rash and his positioning sometimes is awful. The great centre halfs we've had over the years it's never really been a problem before, but it is now

Sahko is the best cb we have got. Sorry guys but that is a fact.
Toure and Sahko is a cb partnership that I would love to see.
Still waiting to see it.
Sahko must feel as though he has been lied to by the club.
He left PSG because he wanted to play more games.
Liverpool come in and say "we'll play you every week" and then we don't.
We buy them and then don't play them. That should be our motto.
It's ridiculous.
I would not be surprised if Lovren and Sahko now never end up playing together while at Liverpool.
Their first game together was a win by the way. One of our few wins this season.

11 Nov 2014 13:03:53
I don't agree at all. Skrtel is decent at defending and has got better at one on ones. He does make the odd error but usually as he is trying to cover for out if position players. Were not scoring goals so our defence is getting trashed for conceeding 1 or 2 everygame. We haven't shipped in loads of goals and only a few more than che and saints.

{Ed001's Note - surely you mean he is one of the out of position players???}

Dunno who the worst offender is, skrtle or Johnson when it comes to being out of position. Playing both together on the right makes the problem 10X worse as well.

Quite simply Johnson's contract is up and he pulls out of so many challenges so he doesn't get injured which leads to conceding goals

11 Nov 2014 15:50:22
And what's the excuse for the last 2 years kopking?

10 Nov 2014 20:24:49
Seems to me that panic is hitting everybody. Just take it easy. OK our summer transfers didn't go as well as planned /hoped, but to write us as a failure is a bit early.

We wanted Costa last year as a cover if Suarez left. Didn't happen - panic got Ballotelli. We wanted Sanchez as part of the Barca deal; didn't happen - panic got Marcovic. Not sure if Fabregas was ever considered, or we had our minds purely set on Lalana. All for reported the same combined prize. Why is therefore the question, and what would have done it.

No doubt we looked at different centerbacks, but can't recall anybody not believing Lovren was a good choice. Did we need wing backs ? not sure with the youngsters we have/had .

If we have to sell now due to FFP, then so be it. No doubt it will be at discount prizes since everybody knows we have to. But it could help galvanize them into the unit it was. LFC has never been about stars. Always as a unit have we been the best. if this is what gets us there- I'm all in

Makes sense to me

Well it is a failure, out of the title race bye fire November, all but out of the Champions league and in relegation form, sold our best striker, have not replaced him, concede soft goals and don't look like scoring. Where are the positives? Please tell me where?

It wasn't that Lovren is a bad choice, it's that he's on the wrong side. We didn't need a LCB (we had Sakho and Agger which was fine with me), we needed a Skrtel replacement. Instead, we seem to have bought a Sakho replacement.

RDL, I agree. Lovren was very good at the Saints last year. Part of the reason why was that he was in a system where the CB`s were protected by a duo of DM`s (Wanyama and/or Schneiderlein) and in a defensive system that allowed him to flourish. This year, he plays in a dreadful defensive system that leaves the CB`s exposed due to no DM protection, has a partner (Skrtl) who is error-prone, often out of position and who can`t communicate. Our defensive system will make defenders like Lahm, Ramos, Kompany, Cahill, Varane, Garay, Hummels. I can go on and on, look terrible. This is why regardless of the colossal amounts of dough spent on defenders, we still can`t defend a freaking corner or free kick. To me, it`s not the players. It`s that dreadful system. Why? because Sahko, Lovren and Toure were good b4 they came here (that`s why they were bought to begin with) and suddenly, they are rubbish.

10 Nov 2014 16:03:56
Hello all eds!
Not a rumour or question about transfers this time but a request for an appraisal on liverpool. Along with other fans and the media we all jump on band wagons but I just can't believe with the loss of two players the team is that far away from getting it right. Please could run through the club and team as whole and give us a clue what the issues are?
Many thanks

{Ed002's Note - The issues surround (a) the choice of players who arrived in recent transfer windows, (b) the coaching of the players, (c) the tactics (6 seconds of panic which has evolved in to "intensity" which will evolve in to something else once one of the layers runs full pelt in to an opposition player and gets sent off for dangerous play), (d) the on field results, (e) the finances, (f) the communications with the press, (f) the fans turning on the management, the owners and the players etc..}

The owners aren't the problem, they're blameless, consistently supported managers and made real strides in the stadium upgrade and commercial deals.

The problem is with the manager, coaches and the players, no amount of cheering will make them play any better and we keep making the same mistakes week in week out and it's frustrating having seen how close we were last season to how poor we are this season and the faults that were there last year have just been made to look worse.
So the only solution is that the club sells the players who are not good enough to take the club forward and relieves the manager of his duties as he is ultimately responsible for what happens, Hodgson was failing and deservedly got sacked, Dalglish and Comolli failed spectacularly and got sacked, so the same should apply to Rodgers. Thanks to BR for last season, but that's long gone now and this season has now effectively ended(which considering the outlay)and is a complete failure there is no way to disguise that, so good bye and good luck in your next job Brendan.

Spot on! This is a results business and if BR doesn`t change and shape up, he will b sacked.

11 Nov 2014 04:13:04
out of the 7 things Ed002 has listed, at least 5 of them are BR's fault. If this continues for the rest of the year. it will then be BR's and the owners fault.

No matter who is at fault though, a change is needed! For discussion's sake, what kind of change do you think is needed. I'm pretty sure ed001 would say the manager and it is hard to disagree if he does

{Ed001's Note - I would say the manager, the transfer committee etc all need to go, they are all failing.}

10 Nov 2014 14:38:06
I think the owners need to put the brakes on and formulate some sort of strategy going forward. In my eyes they've been great but they need to get ruthless now. For a while now we've become known as the team that overpays for mediocrity. It happened at the end of Rafa's reign, into Dalglish and now Rodgers. When you think about the extortionate money spent and what we now have to show for it - I mean we've brought in AT LEAST 40 players during that period and I think we'd maybe agree 5 could be considered a success. That is simply not good enough.

At the end of it all, I think the owners will ultimately be judged not on their mistakes but how they learnt from them. Scouting, coaching, transfer negotiations, player negotiations (i.e. agent fees) have not been up to the level we expect as fans and I'm sure the owners are equally unsatisfied. I hope so anyway because they're the only ones with the power to do anything about it.

So a new strategy moving forward in terms of our whole recruitment policy, no money for Rodgers in January (this really is a must!), re-evaluation of people in key positions within the club (if heads must roll then so be it), step-up work on bringing in sponsor money (e.g. naming rights), consider bringing in external help to try and stabilise things.

PR, BR won't get any money to spend in January cause the Club don't have any. As the Eds have been saying, for January only outgoings, no In's. LFC have to sell first.

10 Nov 2014 16:46:51
And as we saw this summer, you can't sell players no one wants to buy

This season is effectively over. We have zero chance of winning the league, Basle will probably qualify ahead of us from our champions league group, the FA cup and league cup are really pointless competitions which are hardly going to make us attractive to the best players and only get you Europa league which is an utter waste of time.
We are too soft in defence, two poor keepers, weak in midfield and zero attacking threat.
There isn't really a lot to be positive about and after last year this is a massive fall back to earth.
Love to be proven wrong, but let's face it, that's not going to happen.

Realistically who wants to buy Allen, Johnson, Mignolet, Balotelli, Borini, Skrtl, Lovren, Aspas etc? BR you wasted the Suarez money and we have a poor team playing poor football.

"This season is already effectively over"
Wow.

10 Nov 2014 13:01:57
I'm fed up of all the negativity around the performances etc so let's have a little bit of a laugh.

What are some of your favourite chants/songs from Anfield or any other stadium down the years?

My personal favourites are

"Don't blame it on Biscan, don't blame it on Finnan, don't blame it on Hamann, blame it it on Traore"

and

"You've got Di Canio, we've got your stereo"


Over to you fine gentlemen.

10 Nov 2014 13:20:20
He’s red, he’s sound, he’s banned from every ground, Carra’s dad, Carra’s dad.”

10 Nov 2014 13:24:18
We all dream of a team of Carragher

10 Nov 2014 13:27:59
When the ball hits you on the head and your sitting in row z that's zomora.

Not a lfc one but still funny.

Dirk Kuyt as good as he may be
Hit every branch on the ugly tree
Like Fowler, Crouch and Craig Bellamy
Kuyt is boss but he's ugly.

He's big he's red his feet hang out the bed. Peter crouch

He's big, he's round,
he bounces of the ground,
Sammy Lee, Sammy Lee.

Cleverest one I ever heard was by the baggies about their striker Scott Dobie to the Fairground Attraction song
"It's Scott Do-be-ee-ee-ee perfect"
The best ever

10 Nov 2014 15:42:47
Steve Bruce, he's got a big fat head.

10 Nov 2014 17:35:18
Favourite last season was last game of the season when Newcastle were winning:

How s**t must you be, how s**t must you be, if we're winning 1 nil how s**t must you be!

Followed by stokes

We're passing the ball, we're passing ball, we're Stoke city, we're passing the ball!

I like the Colin Pascoe song at the moment. If you haven't heard it Google it.

10 Nov 2014 20:25:08
My favourite 'clean' one.

Jim Bullard Bullard
He's better than Steve Gerrard
He's fatter than Frank Lampard
Jim Bullard Bullard

Most original and bizarre I've heard was at a Leinster rugby match in December cheering Cian Healy to the tune of the Christmas song 'Away in a manger'. The song went on for ages with a lot of puzzled looks in the stand, until they reached the line 'the stars in the bright sky looked down where he lay', at which point the guys singing repeatedly cheered HEALY HEALY HEALY

10 Nov 2014 12:43:55
Hi Eds

I know you're now saying don't ask about FFP cause it's confusing people so is there any outside source (books, websites etc) that you can recommend to explain it, and our position in relation to it? Any direction would be very helpful.

Thanks!

{Ed001's Note - http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

10 Nov 2014 13:24:39
Thank you!

10 Nov 2014 12:18:35
Hi Eds, I see Brad Smith has been recalled from his loan to Swindon. Do you see Llori, Wisdom and Ibe having a future with us? Thanks.,

{Ed002's Note - Perhaps Ibe.}

He was recalled because he refused to sign a new contract. So they said that he would not play again until his contract is sorted one way or another.

10 Nov 2014 11:16:47
Hi ends what do you make of the report last week that john Henry and Rick parry where involved in son business together thanks

{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

10 Nov 2014 11:01:07
Yet again, if in doubt blame Stevie for all of the teams shortcomings. You are all used to the old Stevie, he has now ( due to age ) slowed and regressed but is still a level above what we have at the moment, how you can continually just turn the spotlight on him is disgusting, how about the average players you all champion as " GOING TO BE GREAT WHEN " excuse excuse excuse, step up and take some responsibility, take games by the scruff of the neck!

When are they going to stop hiding behind our captain and become the main man in midfield? I'll tell you when, NEVER, because they haven't got the ability or the balls to take risks and step up and make the manager not pick Stevie because they have taken his mantle!

You crowd want a scapegoat, then look no further than the manager who feels that because of last season ( a system he stumbled upon due to trying to shoe horn Suarez and Danny into the team )fells he can now play the way he wants because his management and so called football blueprint can now not be questioned or challenged, the same manager who continues to play the player you all decry as no longer good enough.

I hope he knocks back a new contract and it's true about City's interest and he goes there and shows what he can still do with players on his level who will take the responsibility off him and allow him to express himself, then let's see how many of the same people whinge " why couldn't he have played like that for us "!

{Ed002's Note - Realistically I would think he will be offered the chance of taking a reduction in wages by the club as he moves in to a role where he plays less and starts to ease in to being a "global ambassador" for LFC and eventually the freedom of the city. If he decides that not for him, his options are likely to be the MLS (a couple of years in Florida) or becoming the side kick to Carragher on Sky as part of the "Jimbo and Stevo Saturday Morning Extravaganza" where he can showcase his cooking skills whilst doing "keepie uppies".

Have you actually been reading the site waro?

i have agreed with you at times, but not this one, because what the majority here has been calling is to not play him as a DM.

hes no longer the same player, yes, but why play him in a position that he isn't even good at when we have lucas? a better dm.

id rather see BR leave before he continues to drop our good players and play the worse ones and then, all these players leave. or he starts making the right decisions which at this rate, seems like it won't be happening.

I can still see Gerrard playing for two more years or maybe more, but not like this. this is destroying his reputation. it is BR that people have been blaming on, or at least the majority of the USUAL posters.

10 Nov 2014 12:41:25
Very humerous Ed002. Just what is needed on a dull Monday morning.

Waro, i agree with you on Gerrard. I hope he stays tho!

10 Nov 2014 15:14:54
Gerrard is merely a transient employee of the club (as Ed002 reminds us). If he's not good enough, ship him out and get someone better. Loyalty and birthplace is irrelevant (ask Jay Spearing). Bring in someone with a Brazilian name or a high Fifa14 stat.

hopefully we can get rid of all the transient employees who are not doing enough to earn their weekly millions, and that includes Brendon.

10 Nov 2014 15:14:29
Very funny Ed002. The two of them host a weekly TV show in the morning before managing the Liverpool team in the afternoon - I'm sure only one of those was meant to be funny.

I agree with Kaizer on this one.

10 Nov 2014 09:31:58
Eds reds I've just been listening to , and they have been talking to damien commoli. He was asked about the transfers, recruitment etc. He made the comparrison to athletico madrid, they lost costa and basically signed mandcukic and griezmann, we lost suarez and signed 8 or 9!!, I think we needed more than 2 players, 4? But you can see his point. He was also talking about scouting etc, interesting listening.

{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't take any notice, he is a snake oil salesman. Full of crap. He couldn't even be honest about why he was sacked.}

Ed01 i'd like to know more concerning your opinion on commoli, but on the point of suarez out and 3 or 4 in where we really neede them, I've said it and lots on here have also. Moreno, I then wouldve go e for alonso, koplyanka, remy,

{Ed002's Note - Try the search function or go back to his time at Liverpool - there is a lot about DC.}

Comolli has been sacked nearly everywhere he`s been for poor perfs in the transfer window. He`s someone we call in the U.S as, "one who looks the part BUT far from being able to play the part". Meaning? He speaks well, wears glasses and talks a good game. Whereas if you look at his record, he is aweful. He would be the very last man on earth to give anyone a moral lecture on transfer strategies.

10 Nov 2014 06:36:51
Am I correct in assuming that we will not be buying any big names until we have had a major clear-out? That the priority will be to get us within the FFP and that will entail not only more players out than in, but more high value out than in and big reductions to the wages bill as well. Is this a correct viewpoint Ed002?

{Ed002's Note - I really do not want to get in to any further discussions about FFP - there is already far too much confusion.}

10 Nov 2014 00:05:58
Does anyone else think we should be fine when Sturridge gets back?

We are clearly missing a bit of pace up top and sturridge will provide that. I'm a bit disappointed balotelli has isn't really working out but we need someone with pace up top. It would be good if we could sell balotelli and borini and buy a player like bony. Even though I do like Borini I just don't think he's going to get the chance to do well and I think the standards that we are now expecting of our forwards set by sturridge and suarez last year is just too high for him.

It will also be interesting to see if there is any changes defensively. Simply throwing money at it is obviously not going to fix it as we have a very good set of defenders in my opinion. Something is just clearly wrong there.

Eds, I would like to get your opinion on Gerrard?

We do have a very good squad. We are just missing one striker who can help fill the void the void when sturridge is out and a defensive coach. The next few weeks / months are going to prove interesting.

Any thoughts?

{Ed001's Note - Sturridge will not solve the defence being a mess, I don't see why anyone would be deluded enough to assume a striker is the problem. The whole team is not giving enough movement, there is no one getting into the box, so one man won't alter that. Then defensively, is a striker going to provide the defensive cover that Gerrard isn't? Will he be able to press like the 4 men we had pressing at once last season? No, Sturridge will make little difference.

My opinion on Gerrard in what way?}

My opinion on Gerrard is that he doesn't physically have what it takes to play 90 minutes week in week out which is why he has been moved to the "QB" role as he can just sit deep and lob long balls forward without to much exertion. The problem is he cannot cover defensively at all and lacks the discipline + the reading of the game to carry out effectively the duties of a DM. Just look at the difference between Gerrard and Lucas - if you take away Gerrards passing range then there is no way he should be getting anywhere near the first team but alas, we are Liverpool, and because of this we are sentimental meaning Gerrard must start irrespective of how well (or these days how poorly) he plays. Gerrard is not the sole issue but, in our system, the DM position is a vital one and whilst we have a player shoehorned in there just so he can play games we will struggle no matter who our back 4 is.

Don't get me wrong the whole Skrtel/Johnson right side of the pitch debacle is one I was raging about all last season - I think it is negligent to persist with them given a) how poor, uninterested and lazy Johnson is and b) how badly Skrtel reads the game and c) how much they both retreat into their own area whenever somebody runs at them - that is asking for pressure, trouble and shots on goal. What is more mind numbing is that this has been common knowledge for the past 2 seasons and has still not been addressed - work that one out if you can.

The crux of the matter is that Rodgers is not selecting either his best players or his most inform players but the "safe" options. He is being found out now - he either needs to change things drastically or he will be sacked - its inexcusable for any manager to spend in excess of £100million in a single transfer window and have their team perform this poorly.

To press together as a team, especially from midfield, we need Hendo, Can and Coutinho to be given the freedom to suffocate the opposition play when they have the ball. Unfortunately due to Gerrard's poor positioning and lack of cover for the defense means the whole midfield spends most of the time playing deep and helping Gerrard out when they should be reclaiming the ball closer to the half way line. The opposition forwards thus get a free pass into our penalty box in numbers with no resistance from the midfield. A world class CDM and GK, along with change in tactics and selecting the right personnel should solve all these problems, whether BR has the b***s to make these changes remains to be seen.

@Indian Buzzer

Man I admire Coutinho for his craft and vision but off the ball he is one of the worst for not pressing, not tackling, not tracking back. I don't think the lack of a team ethos can be laid squarely at Gerrards feet. I think he has been ineffective and poor and should be dropped but the lack of team cohesion is a management issue namely how Rodgers is setting up the team and how he is asking them to play. There is a clear and noticeable difference in our energy levels, our pressing, our tactical shape, from last season and these can only come from Rodgers. Gerrard was just as poor, defensively and positionally, last season - the difference was that we were working together as a team, pressing as a team, attacking as a team - this concealed Gerrards flaws. Its not happening this season and so those flaws are more exposed than ever.

10 Nov 2014 06:42:42
Why do you think we are not pressing in the same way we did last year?

{Ed001's Note - because Rodgers believes in the style of play he came in to the club with. He has simply reverted to that.}

He has Swansea'd us then?

I've read a lot of different opinions on this matter ands here's my view.

DS coming back will make a difference as he will give us an outlet and take pressure off the defence by moving the whole team further up the pitch. But no he won't make us defend set pieces better.

I also think there is a believe/stubbornness that stevie and hendo cannot be subbed. Everyone at the ground on Saturday knew that Coutinho would get subbed no matter how good he played and it happened. We subbed our three best players on the park hence why the whole crowd booed each sub! Players should play based on form and not sentiment!

Also everyman and his dog can see that balo needs a partner up top but yet BR won't do it, but as soon as DS is back we will play two! Balo played well on Saturday holding the ball up well and putting in the effort to close defenders down but he had no support until Borini came on and then of course he was taking off!

The lads in midweek showed the desire and the performance on Saturday was better so hopefully after the international break we can bounce back and get some confidence in the team like we did last December and get on a winning run!

Scousekew

I don`t know of any coach who will adapt his original system that wasn`t working to one that almost won us the PL. Soon afterwards, he then reverts back to said-failed system and persists with it despite it failing b4 our very eyes. It pains me to say this (I have always supported BR) but I think due to last year`s progress, BR now feels emboldened and thinks he`s earned the right to impose his will on the club and will persist with it despite its failures. Mark my words even when Stusge returns, i have a hunch that he will persist with this failed system, will not start Studge w/ Balo or Borini and will continue to play off-form players just to prove a point that his sise works. If we are winning games, then he gets a respite. If results don`t change then his position needs to be seriously reviewed because LFC is not a laboratory for arrogant, unproven managers who seem to be prepard to ruin our club just to be able to say to detractors, "I told you so". Comments anyone?

10 Nov 2014 00:39:17
Steven Gerrard has been a real hero for LFC during his career with some unbelievable goals and a famous UCL win. However last years disappointment (in last seasons home Chelsea fixture) saw a real turning point for the teams confidence, a low point that would be a blow to anyones career.

Have we seen the best of Steven Gerrard? And is this his last season in the first eleven?

We need to bring the fight back and I'm not sure if our talisman has quite the same belief and power as before.

Gerrards performances were overhyped last season, his belief and power have been on the wane for seasons - just look at the drop in his goals from open player over the past few seasons. The mythical "QB" role is one created out of thin air by Rodgers to justify playing Gerrard. And look its true Gerrard still possesses a superb range of passing but these days that's all he provides - at this level you need more from your midfielder, especially the DM. I love Gerrard but continuing to play him when he is a) not and never will be a DM and b) a shadow of his former self is just plain wrong. The club must always come before any individual, no matter how legendary their status - unfortunately that is not what's happening. Lucas plays better than Gerrard in the DM position and, on merit, he should be starting. I'm not saying it would solve our complex defensive issues but it would be the first step in the right direction. As an added bonus by keeping Gerrard as a substitute it means he can be brought on with 20 minutes to go to play in his favoured position - surely a winning situation for all involved? Sadly Rodgers seems happy to keep the status quo.

Just ask the question, would Paisley have carried in with Gerrard? The honest answer is no. That BR is persisting with a player, albeit a legend, who's best days are long gone is harming the team, Gerrard and his own long term career at Liverpool.