Liverpool Banter Archive May 10 2015

10 May 2015 23:00:33
Hi Ed's,

Just a quick question regarding keepers and jones. Obviously the club is looking at cancelling his contract, my question is what do you think of the rest of the keepers lower down how highly rated are they? Could ward be considered the regular number 2 keeper?

Cheers!

{Ed001's Note - we are looking to add a keeper in the summer, so obviously the club don't feel he is ready for the role.}

10 May 2015 22:27:05
Anyway lads no matter how good or bad our season has gone I for one am always sad when the season finishes!!nothing gets me so animated, vocal, crazy depressed, euphoric down right mental as watching and supporting the club I love so much!!! Let's hope the right decisions are made during the summer so our great club can challenge again!!ynwa

10 May 2015 21:43:45
Hello all the EDS and fellow REDS

Despite all anti BR calls, today's show at Chelsea showed we are only short of a couple of players. To miss top4 by goal difference perhaps? We were the better and chances went to waste, as they did all season. Alas, that's how the cookie crumbles.

Give BR another season, yes, another season. Let him recruit his forwards and creative midfielder that he craves. Our future looks great with or without Sterling. Ibe and others will help us challenge. All of a sudden all begins to look positive.
P.S. How can this team lose to Hull (respect), draw with WBA and throw away other points?
A good couple of last games and we will be ready for a summer clearance and new USEFUL faces.

Got to give BR another year as this would be his now or never.

Stevie G, you are the best ever English player, of all time, repect and more respect.

YNWA

10 May 2015 21:58:07
Are you crazy? Chelsea played at half pace and effectively played their version of rossiter against us from the start they had nothing to play for and completely took the mick.

10 May 2015 22:11:00
I respect your opinion mate but i just think that the 'only a few players short of being a good side' is the worst excuse ever and has plagued our side for years.

Seemingly every team in the world is only 'a few players short of being a top team'. Firstly, how many is a few? Secondly, how do you define a good player?

The general consensus always seems to be 3/4 world class players (whatever your definition of that is) will see us win the title. Like every other team.

But in case you haven't realised they don't grow on trees. Only one world class player made us a good side last year.

My point is is that saying we're only 'a few players short' just seems like the most overly optmiistic and deluded way of saying we are average. What we have to do is tighten the team up tactically and structurally, get the squad in order, implement the youth, and then decide how where to get the players we need from and if we can afford them.

10 May 2015 22:48:08
I actually agree that today's performance was a better representation of the ability of the squad than some of the tripe we've served up this season, and I'd agree that we are only a few players short of being a good side. "Chelsea were only at half pace"? Maybe. But you can only play what's in front of you, and we've failed against much worse than a half-pace Chelsea this year.

We were motivated and purposeful in that second half, but I wouldn't keep Rodgers because of that. Actually I'd add it to the list of reasons to part company with him.

Not because we failed to win today in spite of playing well, mind, but because we couldn't be motivated and purposeful and play like that against Hull two weeks ago when it might have mattered. Or against Arsenal, West Brom & Villa. Or anyone we played up to the middle of December, or since we beat Man City on the 1st of March.

Be it tactical, team selection, motivation or both, Rodgers has gotten us to play near the top of our ability for only three months this season, and then again for a once off "must-win" game today.

That's not good enough.

10 May 2015 23:26:40
Let him recruit his forwards and creative players that he craves.
Are you serious, balotelli, lambert, lallana, markovic, Moreno as an attacking full back.
I think you'll find he already recruited those forwards and creative players and FAILED.

10 May 2015 23:45:36
We are a striker and gk keeper away from cementing top 4 and cover for lucas, Henderson from a title challenge.

Not every team are iin these positions, Tottenham blew there one player away from.top 4 a few years back, modric, bale etc.

And famously for us torres, gerrard(in his absolute pomp, alonso, mash, agger, jonno, carra, reina a!

And lastly city's 200mil over the last 4 Seasons trying to strengthen and build a dynasty and have pretty much blew it.

11 May 2015 00:04:49
Can can cover for Lucas; if Milner comes in do we need another CM (DM or AM)?

11 May 2015 00:45:14
Iranred, where have you been the past three years? BR has been in charge here for the past three seasons and we have only been competitive every half season while either pissing away the first half of the season or playing utter dross during that period. BR has spent 215m in three seasons and to you, he still doesn't have the players he craves? Did you just type that with a straight face or is that a windup? He has failed and we should have won or challenged for the PL or been in the top four consistently with that type investment. He has failed and under achieved with the same team he wasted money on and it is time to cut bait because he will never change because nothing is ever his fault.

11 May 2015 05:39:54
We was 1 defender and a goalkeeper away from winning the league last season,
now we are 2 goalscorers, a captain, 2 fullbacks and a goal keeper away from top 4.
Work it out

11 May 2015 07:14:49
IranRed, from what I saw in the game, Chelsea barely got into second gear, while we lacked the quality to do what we needed to do.

10 May 2015 19:41:21
Evening . It might pain a lot of people here but would like big Mario to stay and be forced to up his work rate by more starts and let him take the knocks up front while the rest play around him .

10 May 2015 20:05:35
Wow really. We need to shift asap and get as much as possible for him. We need a goal scorer

10 May 2015 20:36:31
He really is the first I want out of the door to be honest. At least the others train and try hard.

10 May 2015 20:43:02
Give up the ghost on that guy . He's a class A clown . Self diagnosing himself with the man flu etc .

10 May 2015 21:11:13
Berbatov had a similar disinterested in running swagger about his game but at least he scored goals, Mario just doesn't get the numbers from what I can tell. I remember Rodgers explaining that to qualify for the Champions League in the Premier League a team needs to score around the 70+ goals a season mark on average and Balotelli just doesn't look like he is capable of genuinely chipping in with enough to make that a possibility.

Without Sturridge chipping in the goals due to injury we have managed to muster together 50 goals and that is 11 goals less than Man United who have also conceded 3 goals less than us.

I do think the summer signings from last year will do better next time round on an individual performance basis but I don't think Balotelli buys into the "team ethos and ethic" that is required. He might be the lad of all lads but in football it's a numbers game and he hasn't got the work horse mentality we require from our players, we had all hoped the penny would drop and the lad would have grabbed the chance to show the League and world how unstoppable he could actually be, but he seems to save it for World Cups and European Championships. Maybe our style just isn't suited to his game but you have to adapt and overcome. Sadly Mario hasn't been able to do that for us.

Maybe it's unfair to compare him to Suarez but Suarez worked tirelessly even if he did get a few weeks off a season for stupid behaviour every 8 months or so. I know Borini is primed for,the exit door but I'd rather his work rate and desire to do well over Mario's, such a shame because Balotelli has ability but little desire to display it on a consistent basis, or so it seems. Or that's how I see it anyway.

10 May 2015 22:53:29
Mario was given too less minutes to gel into the team. gife him a second season to prove himself. We chop and change too many pkayers every year. We need consistency.
if br gets another year so should mario.
after 260 m he has not won a single trophy and yet he says he is the best person for the job!!!!!.
either both stay or both leave.
the playing style needs tweaking to reflect the opponent.
give mario a second chance. Everyone deserves a second chance.
Based one one season performance we cannot get rid of players or else henderson, lucas, srktle anx so many others would not be here. Keep the team together. A good bond of the players will deliver the goods.

10 May 2015 23:00:23
Balotelli's not even worth talking about in terms of a Liverpool future. He's a complete waste of talent, he'll never change his ways because he doesn't see anything wrong with being lazy and overindulgent, and we should offload him as soon as possible.

He might, if he's lucky, get a move to a club of comparable stature to Liverpool. But even if he does, he'll make a mess of that within 2 years and start sliding down the football ladder until he ends up in the MLS or the Middle East before his 30th birthday. But he won't be a worthwhile player to a big European club again.

10 May 2015 23:13:39
Both BR & Mario should leave, kit.

And as for Henderson & Lucas etc., the comparison is null & void. What was in doubt when they came in first was whether they had enough ability as footballers to adapt to being Liverpool players. Their desire, application and effort wasn't. More to the point, time was actually needed to see if they were good enough.

But nothing remains to be proven about Balotelli. Giving him more time will tell us nothing about him that we don't already now. I have no doubt he's a good enough player, he just doesn't try hard enough and isn't a team player. And he never bloody will. How do I know this? Because he he hasn't tried hard enough or played for the team his entire career. Why would he suddenly start now?

He expects every ball to be handed to him on a plate without having to bother with any sort of intelligent movement to get into space or in behind because he is so talented and special. He expects his need to take 17 touches more than is necessary, slowing down the play, and his need to try shots from 40 yards to be indulged because he is so talented and special. Man City about managed to indulge him for a season, and even then he only scored 13 league goals for them. Kuyt used to hit not too many short of that and was (wrongly) derided as a donkey rather than some sort of special misunderstood snowflake who will deliver if nutured enough.

Balotelli's not going to change, keeping him would be a waste of £100k (& bonuses if we actually let him onto the pitch) a week.

11 May 2015 00:56:22
Something red made the best comment. I would sack whoever was responsible for his arrival first off before I do anything else. Had we had Balo vs Chelsea he would not have run and chased they way those players ran their socks off today. He and the guy who oversaw his arrival, should be sold and sacked respectively.

11 May 2015 02:27:31
Doesn't score enough goals, get rid.

We have too many passengers and Balo is one of them.
Move him on with Borini, Lambert, Allen and Enrique.

10 May 2015 19:05:01
Hello edds, I for one am tired of brendan rodgers, so can I ask a simple yes or no question to ed001 and ed002, in your opinion will rodgers be the liverpool manager come the start of the next season?

Thank you in advance.

{Ed002's Note - I would have never employed him and would have thrown him out much earlier than this. I have suggested that Michael Gordon and the owners need to look to their advisors to find a new head coach/manager and move Rodgers on. It has not worked, he is a PR minefield and is responsible for the complete failure of the club in the past three years. The owners need to act as the did with the Red Sox and that gave them the success they craved.

However, right now I am not so sure what will happen with Brendan Rodgers.}

10 May 2015 19:16:59
Just hard to see who would come in ed . They are not clambering over each other sadly

10 May 2015 19:20:52
I was never on board with all the ire at Rodgers' press statements, until today. He has just said that the difference between Chelsea and Liverpool is that Chelsea brought in three starters, and Liverpool lost three. So, 5th place is par. Hmmm. One might think that English football had some sort of random draft system. It doesn't. Liverpool lost two to injury and sold one. Then spent £120m bringing in 8, and punting one on loan. At best, Rodgers is disengenuous.

10 May 2015 19:23:03
He seems to think he's safe as he has recently mentioned marquee signings and playing young players in the Europa league. I agree with you eds, good coach but not good enough

10 May 2015 19:30:29
Haven't seen what Rodgers has said this time but in general lately he's been shifting blame to the transfer committee which is fairly ironic considering.

10 May 2015 19:48:43
First question is who are Fsg's advisors? The same who advised Fsg to look to Rodgers. The second point is that i assume by your guarded response that your guess is that its far from a given that Rodgers will be getting the bullet? Purely due to a lack a candidates available or any other reason? Surely he has to go?

{Ed002's Note - FSG have taken advice from a number of people - I am not going to get in to naming names.}

10 May 2015 19:54:48
Thrown him out at what point ?

{Ed002's Note - After a handful of games.}

10 May 2015 20:46:29
if remember was it not David Dein who recommended Rodgers?

10 May 2015 20:46:42
The club needs to change from manager and all coaching staff I think rodgers is out his dept but our whole coaching staff are woeful at best I agree 100% with ed002 comments and would hope fsg are ruthless but also take there time in appointing the right manager who then can pick a good coaching team. Me Personally is hoping the review of the club ends up with both rodgers and the coaching staff picking up p45s at the end of May (wishful thinking never done anyone any harm)

10 May 2015 20:52:48
hi edo2 u say your not sure wat will happen with bodgers so there really is a chance this buffoon could still be in charge next season I just can't belive fsg haven't acted like you say they weren't scared to do it with red sox and if they don't then it would be a massive failure on there side

10 May 2015 21:08:06
Baseball is a totally different sport and a common misconception is this koneyball stuff, they did a man City for there success at boston!

Epstein had one of the top 3 budgets in the whole mlb!

Brendan.is getting dealt a completely different hand and I'm all for critics but there is plenty he has done right and the eds just.ignore because they don't like the man, see beilsa is struggling for top 4 at marseille. Another dismal campaign in Europe for him #number1headcoach

10 May 2015 21:41:02
I wouldn't say that Rodgers has been dealt "a completely different hand" at all. The owners have invested very generously and consistently in transfers over the past 3 seasons, and Rodgers has squandered most of it. Last summer alone we spent £112 million on transfer fees. Face it, Rodgers has had plenty of money to spend, and, bar a few exceptions, has not spent it very well at all.

10 May 2015 23:59:34
you can flip all the transfer business into negative and all Brendan fault!

But can't wr also.look at the side that he goes I want costa, he's gonna.cost 35 mil be on a 150k a week and have no sell on fee - what happens?? - Do they say yes or no? We no who's getting selected but it is from within a model, when we have our options.put forward to Brendan there ain't going to be reus, fabs, Pedro, huguain, lacazette, Di maria (they are just examples of a different type of transfer) ours are young with potential and if there old they ain't.gonna be overly expensive and won't.be on 100 k a week+

So you can say Brendan selecting the best that is avaliable to him! I can't see them going out (if there was for example a budget for 60mil) and getting lacazette for example and.giving him a fat pay packet!

They signed a young.player for the future for boston in the last windows and payed him 32 mil over five years and also had to pay another 32mil in fines on the same contraxt because they are failing there versions.off ffp over there asWell.

Would they get lacazette this summer 40mil for exampLe and put him on 150k a week? Nope!

11 May 2015 01:16:41
Lfc18, you must be new here on these boards because you don't know what you're talking about. What bad hand was he dealt? He was backed to the hilt with 215m in three years and still no trophies yet all we hear is spin and doublespeak in the media about wanting marquee signings but won't buy them when he's given the funds. Nonsense! Costa was ready to be bought because we met his release clause and AM was willing to sell but he was an option if LS left hence, did not come. Willian was there but Chelsea an Tottenham offered more. Alexis was there to be bought but chose Arsenal. Then BR wastes money on Marko when Ibe and Sterling can play wide. He knew Suarez was going and Studge was a sick note yet spends money on Lambo and Balo while he rejected Bony, Remy and every other striker he was offered, per Ed01's info. Yet after all this, he has the gaule to indirectly criticize the owners in the media for not providing him with top players, all in a bid to not answer for his own failures. What do you want the owners to do? Just keep giving him money to waste till they go broke? If you think the owners are going to give BR more money to waste and trash them in the media when he fails to perform, then you are due for a psych visit.

PS: the owners don't do moneyball with footie nor do they have the policy of buying young with resal value. That rubbish has been debunked by the Eds already so no need repeating it.

11 May 2015 02:32:23
Recruitment of players has been terrible for 26 years. I hardly think replacing the manager will solve it.

It's more complicated than changing the manager. We've tried that several times and it hasn't made a jot of difference.

{Ed001's Note - how can you say it hasn't made a difference? The differences are clear to see. We have gone from looking for a target man (which ended up being Carroll) under one manager, to adding 300 tiny attacking midfielders under Brendan. Each manager changes the recruitment policy, so it makes a huge difference. It is not the be all and end all but it makes a major difference.}

11 May 2015 09:12:24
We're still making the same mistakes we've been making for the last 26 years, hence it has not made any difference.

11 May 2015 09:49:08
All I want to know redihio is why haven't we got mkhitaryan, costa, William at the club! They were identified but the people with the money decid decided they weren't going to go out and get them!

And it's 100 mil for Liverpool football club over 5 transfer windows, and 115 over one with 65 brought in!

Your dad gives you 100 quid, super news? But you find out he's sold your PlayStation? THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

{Ed002's Note - Bleating on and on about the same thing will just get the posts deleted - so the you understand, I will explain yet again: (a) Mkhitaryan was never going to happen due to the price being too high and Shakhtar wanting a single payment. It would have been dependent on the sale of Suarez. The Dnipro owner was always likely to want to keep Konoplyanka. (b) Willian was a player Liverpool were interested in, but they did not offer enough money to buy him. (c) Costa was not going to happen without selling Suarez - because of the money and because he was seen as his replacement.}

11 May 2015 18:14:47
Thanks, Ed because clearly, lfc 18 can't read.

10 May 2015 18:06:29
Some good football played today, but what we need are 2 quality & proven goal scorer's, not rely on Sturridge (if he plays next year, bonus) or Origi, but a quality proven scorer's. Hard to get with us not having C/L. We as supporter's have recognized this for a long time (end of last season)let's hope those that make the decisions do too & other key positions.

10 May 2015 19:43:24
We all know that we need a proven goal scorer but where are these players. Especially those that would come to us.they are as rare as hens test.It makes me laugh when people say we need to sign all these marquee players,don't they realise that all other clubs are also after them and our club won't compete with them when it comes to the money side

10 May 2015 20:45:53
We had the cash & the chance to add to the team last season Red but we pi**ed away a pot full of cash. I know some of the roumer's are Ings, Benteke etc, are they any better than Austin-QPR, Berahino-WBA, or Rhodes or Gestede at Blackburn, let's be honest they are no worse then Balotelli, Lambert (who I like but hasn't been given a far chance imo). Just names that could be hungry enough to want to prove something & they know where the back of the net is. if the other proven scorer's aren't available that we can't seem to attract.

10 May 2015 20:51:50
speaking of world class strikers, on this day in 1978 King Kenny chipped the keeper to win us back to back European cups. like it was yesterday. FSG if you are reading this let's not lose sight of who we are or where we came from.

10 May 2015 21:09:30
I was at the game. doesn't seem like 37 years ago.

11 May 2015 01:25:59
Canadian is right. We had money to make all the adjustments needed to get set for the next couple of seasons BUT we messed up and we are now behind the 8 ball.

10 May 2015 15:45:52
I really think it's kinda strange that when we start a striker, we don't put one on the bench. But when we don't start a striker, we have 3 on the bench.

Also, I know Gerrard is past his best, but i am really going to cherish these next two games; the last that I'll see Gerrard in a Liverpool shirt.

10 May 2015 16:44:09
That's the thinking of a genius for you.

10 May 2015 20:25:56
Sinclair was on the bench today? Or is this just in general terms

10 May 2015 15:41:11
Hi Eds,
I am seeing a lot of reports putting BR under pressure to sign a 'world class' striker, however I know Liverpool are under FFP and could be in trouble. What exactly would that entail? What would be the repercussions of failing to meet it?
Thanks in advance! Keep up the good work!

{Ed002's Note - Monitoring, warning letters, fines, exclusion from making transfers, exclusion from competition.}

10 May 2015 17:03:39
If you don't mind my asking Ed002, how serious was our FFP investigation last year?

Also, if it's not too much to ask, how does the process work?

10 May 2015 18:19:32
Don`t need him, all transfer money we have must go on getting the best goal getter we can possibly get, that was the only difference between this year and last.

If after we have done that there is some money left, maybe an experienced back up holding mid to cover Lucas`s injuries.

A goal scorer improves and has a positive effect on the whole team, so get one whatever it costs and let the existing team grow and improve on the back of that.

10 May 2015 18:57:41
--I'll just cut your nonsense post and respond to the one I missed---

{Ed002's Note - hsf, all assessments are "serious" and the punishments hit clubs hard financially, with the reduction in squad size, with transfer embargos, bans etc.. Take for example the situation as of today:

Clubs currently banned from competition: Malaga, Gyori ETO, Parma, FK Ekranas, CFR 1907 Cluj, FC Astra Giurgiu, Bursaspor
Clubs sanctioned and fined: Manchester City, PSG, Zenit, Galatasaray, Monaco
Clubs fined: Levski Sofia, Hapoel Tel-Aviv, Hull, Panathinaikos, Ruch Chorzow, Dinamo Moscow, Roma, Inter Milan and Trabzonspor
Clubs currently warned and subject to on-going monitoring: Zenit, Rubin Kazan, Anzhi Makhachkala, Levski Sofia
Clubs currently subject to on-going monitoring: Besiktas (who were previously banned and have also paid a voluntary fine), Lyon, Liverpool (who were previously warned), Sparta Prague (who were previously warned), Wolfsburg
Clubs who settled by paying a voluntary fine to curtail on-going investigation: Sporting Lisbon, Rostov, Besiktas (who were previously warned), Krasnodar (who were previously warned), CSKA Sofia, Kardemir Karabukspor and Lokomotiv Moscow (who were previously warned)

The overall summary looks like this:

The Demystification of the Financial Fair Play Rules (FFPR)
Introduction
I will try and simplify and summarise the FFPR and give examples where I can.
Putting aside all of the “mother country” fluff, the fundamental purpose of the FFPR is to:
(1) Ensure that clubs are operating within their means with transparent financial reporting. Example: Arsenal has debt which they can manage from the money they make as a club (good). PSG has a very low turnover given the amount of money they spend on players through donations from wealthy owners (bad) and sponsorship deals well beyond the norm..
(2) Protect creditors. Example: When Portsmouth went bust they owed money for players (the extreme case being Glen Johnson who had moved to Liverpool but Portsmouth still owed Chelsea for), money to local businesses (tradesmen who had worked at the ground, newsagents etc.), utility companies, the police et al (bad).
(3) Encourage responsible spending. Example: Liverpool under Hicks and Gillett borrowed money against the value of the club in order to buy players (bad).
(4) Protect the long-term viability of European club football. Example: They want to avoid the scenario of clubs entering administration or going out of business.
The FFPR apply to all UEFA club competitions and will actively come in to force from the end of June 2014 taking account of the financial monitoring period (the season just finished) and the two prior reporting periods. So when they first start, the FFPR will look at the 2013/2014 returns, and they will give consideration to the 2011/12 and 2012/13 figures.
I should make clear that it is not the full accounts of a club that are being considered, but just the “relevant” income and the “relevant” expenses. “Excluded” expenses are critical to the FFPR calculations. To this end, all clubs will need to effectively produce two sets of accounts. An audited set which are provided to Companies House and the relevant revenue organisations, and a second audited return laying out the “relevant” income and the “relevant” expenses for the purpose of the FFPR.
Relevant Income
(1) Match day gate receipts. Example: The money made by the club from paying fans attending games. This includes income from cup games when played away from home where a proportion of the gate money goes to the away side.
(2) Broadcasting rights. Example: Television income for games, money provided for radio broadcasting.
(3) Income from commercial activities. Example: Sales of bobble hats and rattles, club shop income, licensed income (e.g. DVD sales). In the future you can expect to see income from other media (e.g. streaming of games on a pay-per-view basis to the web and phones) increase.

(4) Prize money. Example: income from the Premier League, Champions League etc..
(5) Sponsorship. Example: Shirt sponsors (Standard Chartered, Samsung etc.), shirt manufactures (Adidas, Warrior etc.).
(6) Advertising. Example: Companies who buy time on video screens during games or hoardings at the stadium.
(7) Other operating income. Example: Payments made to a club for playing friendly matches in the Far East.
(8) Income from transfers: Example: All income from the sale of a player regardless of payment being due to previous clubs, the player himself etc. as they are allowable expenses which will later be deducted.
(9) Excess proceeds on the sale of tangible fixed assets. Example: The money Arsenal from converting part of Highbury in to apartments and selling them.
(10) Other income: Example: Interest on investments.
Relevant Expenses
(1) The costs of running the business (confusingly referred to as “the cost of sales” by accountants etc.). Example: Wages, ground maintenance, lighting, telephones, IT equipment, travel costs, policing costs etc..
(2) Employee related benefits and associated costs. Example: Costs of providing insurance, dental care, medical, employer NI contribution, housing, loyalty bonuses etc..
(3) Other operating expenses. Example: Payments for advertising, legal fees, agent fees, accounting fees, payments to players in relation to transfers, payments to player’s previous clubs, etc..
(4) Amortisation or transfer costs. Example: The total amount of money paid to another club to transfer a player or, if a club decides to do so, the amortised cost for that year (where a club is spreading the cost of the transfer out over the length of his contract for accounting purposes).
(5) Finance costs. Example: Bank charges, interest on loans etc..
(6) Dividends. Example: The owners may take a dividend from the profits a club makes as income.
Excluded Expenses
(1) Depreciation of tangible fixed assets. Example: The loss, if any, in value of the stadium, cars, IT equipment etc..
(2) Costs associated with the intangible fixed assets (other than player registrations). Example: goodwill, franchises, trademarks, copyrights etc..
(3) Expenditure on youth development activities. Example: All youth development expenses (housing, schooling, travel, medical etc.) are excluded from the calculations.
(4) Community development activities. Example: Outreach programmes, donations to the local community and charities, provision of equipment etc..
(5) Tax expenses. Example: Monies paid to the Inland Revenue, VAT etc..
(6) Finance costs related to construction of tangible fixed assets. Example: The interest on the £300M loan to build a new stadium.
(7) Interest payments on old loans (pre June 1, 2011). Example: Any interest due on a loan taken out for whatever purpose before June 1, 2011 is excluded from the calculations.
(8) Certain expenses from non-football operations. Example: This does not really apply to British clubs, but in other European countries clubs are often “sporting clubs” and have basketball, football, hockey team etc. all under one business.
The Calculation
FFPR calculates from a club’s “relevant” income and the “relevant” expenses whether the club is running at a surplus (profit) or deficit (loss) within a Monitoring Period (e.g. 2013/14). From this the FFPR decides if a club has met the “break even” requirement or not. This is not met if the “relevant” expenses exceed the “relevant” income by more than 5M euros (an acceptable deviation).
If the club exceeds this acceptable deviation, the owners of a club may contribute toward correcting it to a maximum of 45M euro over a rolling three year period (30M euro from 2015/16 on). Example: If Club X made a loss of 50M euro in 2013/14 due to the purchase of players, the calculation will ignore the first 5M euro and assume an owner contribution of 45M euro and there would not be an issue. However, for the two years following, there would be no allowable owner contribution as the full allocation had been used. If Club Y made a loss of 30M euro in 2013/14 due to the purchase of players, the calculation will ignore the first 5M euro and assume an owner contribution of 25M euro and there would not be an issue. But in this case, for the two years following, there would still be 20M euro allowable as owner contribution to cover further losses.
The Punishment
The Threat: If a club has been determined to have violated the “break even” requirement for a season it may be excluded from the next season’s UEFA competitions.
Likely Situation: If a club can show it has been moving in the right direction and doing what it can to overcome financial issues, perhaps brought on by a recession (e.g. in Spain) then I would expect a strongly worded letter as a warning. If a club has strayed a significant distance for the rules, then a fine and cap on number of salaries of players in UEFA competitions may be imposed. Perhaps by then end of the 2016/2017 season, If a club has been determined to have violated the “break even” requirement for several seasons then it may be excluded from the next season’s UEFA competitions.
UEFA are willing to make some exceptions to the rule and have already said they will consider:
(1) The quantum and trend of the break even result. Example: Chelsea spent a lot three years ago summer rebuilding an aging squad, so even with considerable additional income from winning the Champions League it could violate the “break even” requirement. However, spending less the next season will show the club moving in the right direction. Expect a strongly worded letter in a couple of years time.
(2) Debt situation. Example: A possible “get out” for Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester United should they have a bad season and need to violate the “break even” requirement. Consideration will be given to the existing debt and the ability of the clubs to service that debt. The trend of the debt reducing and an excuse of “one bad season” and “need to rebuild the team” would likely result in a slapped wrist.
(3) Fluctuating exchange rates. Example: All non eurozone countries need to report the FFPR figures in euros which could fluctuate due to the exchange rate, whereas a number of the UEFA figures are fixed amounts (e.g. the 5M euro acceptable deviation).
(4) Projected figures. Example: UEFA will allow clubs to show that they are moving in the right direction if they provide projected figures showing that the “break even” requirement will be met in the following season.
(5) Force majeure. Example: Any extraordinary events or situation arising that is beyond the club’s control will be taken in to account.
(6) Until then end of 2014/15 only - Ongoing reductions in wage costs. UEFA will be flexible over the “break even” requirement if a club can show that their wage bill has been reducing and with the exclusion of wages of players signed before June 1, 2010 they would have met the “break even” requirement. Example: An escape route for the likes of Chelsea with Cech, Terry, Cole, Lampard etc. wages excluded from the calculations. A possible future escape route for the likes of Barcelona.
The Issues
There are a number of matters that UEFA still need to figure out and a number of concerns that certain clubs and certain national associations have. Off the top of my head:
(1) Loopholes: Whilst UEFA has done what it can to block any potential “loopholes” it is well aware that exclusion of wages for players signed before June 2010 is one it has introduced itself, and one that will be popular with the higher paying clubs as a short term escape route through to the summer of 2015. The matters of excessive sponsorship will be addressed via a cap to thwart the concerns over the likes of Manchester City abusing the rules. The cap has yet to be finalised but will require ratification. It was discussed without UEFA present at the end of March at a meeting of a number of clubs in Monaco. No agreement was reached.
(2) Soft Sponsorship: UEFA are concerned at the aggressive approach to obtaining sponsorship some clubs are taking. Questions are being asked about the ethics in clubs having airline travel partners, photocopier partners etc.. The Spanish clubs have raised this as a concern.
(3) National Sponsorship Variations: As we have seen tobacco sponsorship leave Formula 1 UEFA would like to see alcohol sponsorship out of football. We already have a situation where sponsorship by alcohol related businesses are forbidden in certain countries. Wealthy breweries are now focussing their sponsorship in other countries thereby creating a perceived imbalance in what income clubs are able to obtain in sponsorship. The French and Russian clubs have raised this as a concern.
(4) National Financial Distribution Variations: Concerns exist in countries where different models are used for distributing prize money, contributing to the grassroots game and distributing income from television and other media broadcasting. This led to an original request (rejected) from a number of clubs to restrict the FFPR to only the wealthiest of clubs, those with a turnover in excess of xM euros.
(5) National Taxation Variations: There is a considerable difference across UEFA nations in taxation, and this is seen to be reflected in the wages paid to players. The Spanish clubs have raised this as a concern.
(6) Third Party Ownership: Countries that allow third party ownership of players are seen to have a distinct advantage in being able to keep the costs of transfer fees low as they are only paying for a proportion of a player. The English clubs have raised this as a concern.
The Great Fear
Without going in to too much detail: (a) A number of clubs take the opportunity a once or twice a year to discuss various issues including changes in rules, television rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. These discussions, the last of which were in late August, also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions. (b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues. (c) The clubs would renegotiate their television rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc.. (d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen.
}

10 May 2015 19:15:19
You are American Ms Ed02. You maybe mis-understand British colloquial speak. But if you think " Keep up the good work" is backpatting then so be it. Good for you. Go ahead bar me. Your loss.

{Ed002's Note - I said nothing of the sort but I will grant your wish. It seems the brain dead glifnards are out in force today.

10 May 2015 23:25:49
Thanks for that Ed002, much appreciated.

10 May 2015 14:40:11
Chelsea resting a few and a novice up top for sure . Still out do David Brent

{Ed002's Note - I would not call Loic Remy a "novice".}

10 May 2015 17:58:08
Ironically Remy is exactly what we need 😳

{Ed002's Note - There is a good chance he is heading elsewhere this summer.}

10 May 2015 20:28:36
Can't see him ever wanting to come to us now after the debacle of last summer.

11 May 2015 01:32:55
Especially after BR sent him packing from his medical for an alleged ailment which per Ed01, was a load of tripe.

10 May 2015 13:27:26
Id like to thank ed002 for using the word "erroneous"

10 May 2015 12:42:41
Heard interest in Son but question, can he play as a striker? Don't get me wrong looks quality but seen him a handful of times and while he looks good tends to play off a striker or as wide.

So if we sign him what does that mean for the 5-6 players we already have in that position? Don't get me wrong offers something they all don't but surely means shutting 1-2 players our of the pictures (most who we signed last summer).

Surely it is worrying for potential player our club acquiring them and then showing no interest in using them or playing them in their best roles (mario, Markovic, lallana, borini, aspas, Lambert, manquillo, borini, lovren etc).

10 May 2015 13:04:40
Son can play as striker yes. Mario, borini, aspas and maybe Lambert will be off in the summer

10 May 2015 11:28:35
Hi Ed,

So what your saying reading from recent posts is that we are not interested in hardly anyone? Is anything gunna happen this summer regarding good players cause by the looks of it at the moment we would struggle to sign league 1 players.

{Ed002's Note - That is simply not true. I have explained that Liverpool are interested in a number of players and there is a good chances some of those will arrive. You are I guessing simply wanting the whole team changed again and a few more years of transition.}

10 May 2015 12:30:42
I would beore than happy if we get Ings, he is a very good player and is a predator.

10 May 2015 13:00:32
Mighty reds, your description of Ings reminds me of his Italian version who goes by the name of Borini. The club already has a player like Ings at the club but Brendan seems to be signing more players just for the sake of it than using what he already has. Come the end of next season, i'm pretty sure Ings will join the long list of strikers that Brendan signed and dumped within a short span of time (if he is still in charge).
I really cannot figure out why the club so desperately wants a player with a history of injuries and lack of confidence when taking penalties. We already have Borini and yesil who could do as good a job for us so this signing is just the one of many average Joes that Brendan has bought to the club with disastrous results. If this calibre of player is the best Brendan can sign for the club, then maybe it is time to part with this manager and look for someone with a big reputation and affinity for signing quality over quantity.

{Ed001's Note - Borini had no issues taking (and scoring) penalties for a team in the drop zone. Personally I would rather have Borini any day, he has a better mentality.}

10 May 2015 13:36:29
Exactly what i said Ed001. All these posters raving about Ings seem to have short memories. Remember last season when Borini also got 10 goals for Sunderland and saved them from the drop with some brilliant and high pressure situation goals? So can someone please point out ot me what exactly it is that makes Ings good enough but not Borini? Both put in similar performances for clubs battling relegation and Borini came out on top by scoring match winning goals while Burnley on the other hand have been condemned to relegation because none of their top players (Ings included) stepped up to the plate unlike Borini last season. Ings does not have the quality or the mentality to play for the club which has been proven over the course of the season.
Its a typical example of the club refusing to learn from its mistakes in the transfer market and signing players for the sake of it than actually improving the team. What the club needs is players who will walk into the first team and make a difference, not more squad players who are no better than what the club already have. Personally, i would rather give Borini another season than waste a single penny on Ings. There are many forwards out there who would improve our team but either the club loves to mess up on purpose or the scouts or whoever is in charge of choosing players are not doing their jobs properly. Forgive me for going on a rant and looking at this from a realistic POV than an optimistic one but if things go on just like this for the forseeable future, LFC will be no more than a glorified version of Spurs and Southampton.

{Ed001's Note - I do feel we have a real issue with the way we work in the transfer market which goes way beyond the prices paid. Paying over the odds is not so much of an issue if it is for the right players. The major problem Liverpool have is the lack of forward planning when buying players. The transfer policy does not seem well thought out at all, with a constant overload of attacking midfielders, when there are gaping holes in defensive midfield. Selling off for cheap a right back, sending another out on loan, then paying a loan fee for one who is worse than either. So poor, in fact, that Rodgers has been playing midfielders at right back/right wing back, rather than play him. Still being desperate for a striker despite adding two new ones to the squad and having one come back from a loan spell. Buying centre back after centre back yet the manager chooses to put a midfielder at the back. Having a goalkeeper pairing so poor that a few half decent performances from one is suddenly perceived as good enough, rather than anyone noticing how distinctly poor his distribution, positioning and command of the area are.

There are many other problems with our transfers, but there is no point continuing to moan, just have to hope that the mistakes are no longer repeated. That we actually sign just the players we need and don't release ones on the cheap to replace them with lesser quality. That the good youngsters will actually be given a chance to show if they are ready and able to step up.}

10 May 2015 13:52:46
I'm with you ed001. Borini should have had a lot more game time this season. Show me a player who had more desire than him this season. He should have had all of ballotellis game time, he couldn't have done any worse. Criminally mismanaged.

{Ed001's Note - same with Lambert, woefully mismanaged.}

10 May 2015 14:02:04
Ings is excellent at that relenteless pressing from the top that Suarez was so good at. He does powerful runs that reminds you of Rooney back in the day. Borini doesn't have that same power and intensity. Certainly got nowhere near the same physical presence required to be effective in a striker position in the EPL. Borini is the striker equivalent of Joe Allen. Good players that do their jobs, but ultimately hugely ineffective players.

10 May 2015 14:26:31
At last someone who agrees Mignolet has improved but just his shot stopping. The rest of his game is poor. He would be good at Rugby and kicking it into touch. A new keeper please

11 May 2015 01:41:05
Ed just described BR and the club's abysmal transfer strategy and player mismanagement to the letter.

{Ed001's Note - anyone that thinks that crap about Ings has never watched him play. I have been watching Ings for years and he does no such thing at all. He is nothing like Suarez in his pressing, he does a bit of it for Burnley, but that is not how he plays. He is far from the power in his running that Rooney possesses too. Unbelievably poor analysis of his game dwarf, it is like you have only watched him on MOTD to judge him or maybe youtube, because you clearly don't know him at all. He is quick, he has some predatory instincts and he works hard, though not on the same level as a Suarez, Borini, Kuyt or Rooney. Plus he is mentally weak, despite returning from bad injuries, hence his refusal to take pens and the need to drop him when his head was turned by wanting a move away in Jan. Remember how Suarez took his game to a whole new level when he wanted a move, that is because of his mental strength as a player. Ings is not mentally fit for a big club, nor is he good enough.}

10 May 2015 10:44:57
Does Brendan Rodgers regret agreeing to the transfer policy brought in by FSG?

In a recent press conference Rodgers defended the transfer policy by saying, "When I came to Liverpool, I knew 100 per cent how the club worked". Therefore, regardless of when the transfer committee was put in place or who is involved, there was a structure right from the start of Rodgers' Liverpool career. The policy was put in place to ensure that money would be better spent in future after the club previously wasted over £50m on the likes of Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing etc.

After analysing the signings made under Rodgers, it's quite clear what the transfer criteria is:
1) Transfer targets must be ideally 25 years old or under.
2) Transfer targets must be cheap (£20m or under)
3) Transfer targets must have potential in order to gain value for money in the long term future

Basically, the process is to take low cost gambles on a lot of young players in hope that they fulfil their potential and become value for money. It remains to be seen whether the whole process is to "cash in" and sell for profit as soon as a players' value is dramatically increased.

You could say that 21 of the 24 transfers (including loans) under Rodgers fit the criteria except for the following 3 players:
Kolo Toure (who was signed as a stop gap after Carragher retired)
Rickie Lambert (who was signed as a squad player to add depth in a champions league season)
Adam Lallana (who had just turned 26 when we payed £25m for him)

We may look at the vast amounts of money spent under Rodgers, but we have to understand that this is a low risk, long term investment by FSG. Coutinho may end up selling for £30m and we might only sell Allen for £5m. That would be approximately £11.5m profit. Emre Can may end up selling for £25m and Balotelli for only £10m. That would be approximately £9m profit. Let's say we unearthed a gem in signing Origi and in 3 years time he is sold for £70m. That profit would cover several losses made on failed signings.

It's a very smart investment plan by FSG, but they need to find a solution to the negative impact all these signings are having on the club. Most aren't yet at the level required to compete and aren't being selected by the manager. Common sense tells you that the manager is bound to be unhappy with the lack of quality he has within the squad, the players who aren't being selected are bound to be frustrated with their lack of game time, and the owners will no doubt be concerned about the development of the players they have invested in. Thus creating stressful and uneasy relationships left right and centre which obviously affects the success that the fans crave.

The best way to resolve these issues would be to find a solution that suits the owners, the manager, the club, the players who have a future at the club and the fans.
1) Get rid of the committee.
2) Sell/Loan the players that have a negative impact in the dressing room.
3) Sell/Loan the players that have no future at the club.
4) Let Rodgers bring in some real quality to strengthen his starting team.
5) Start buying young players less frequently to avoid squad overload. Adapt a sell before buy method.
6) Start getting the academy players involved more often.

Personally, I don't blame Rodgers for the signings made, I blame the rule book created by FSG. If Rodgers had £200m to spend on players of his choice, I guarantee the squad would be much different, there would be little to no resale value and the wage bill would be astronomical. This is the right way to go as a business which will hopefully bring success both on the pitch and financially. The issues I do have with Rodgers are purely coaching and tactical issues. Nothing to do with transfers or money, but that's for another topic.

Red Rum

{Ed002's Note - You have made a number of erroneous assumptions.}

10 May 2015 11:14:51
I've thought pretty much the same as you rum.
I think the model you have explained is what FSG are using.
And I believe this is partly the right way to run the club.
BUT we do need to add some ready now players to the starting 11. I hope FSG continue to back the club in the transfer market and will move away slightly from their model, and purchase maybe 2/3 of these players.
Ed2 can you please elaborate if Iwe are way off the mark?

{Ed002's Note - You are way off the mark. But feel free to carry on - someone is bound to mention "moneyball" soon.}

10 May 2015 11:39:29
So. It's not Rodgers fault that he has spent over 200 million based on a rough transfer guideline and brought in lots of potential and squad players who he then chooses to leave on the bench or play them out of position? He could have brought 10 X 20 mil players most of which could be in our starting 11 but all he's done is waste it. He'd have spent that money on the entire Swansea squad if he had it all upfront with no restrictions.

10 May 2015 12:15:23
Rodgers having control over transfers again?

Benzema at right back it is then.

10 May 2015 14:06:07
Personally i don't think its the purchase price of the players that is the issue, more the wages the club are willing to pay to the players. 2 players might cost say £20 million but the wages of a player with potential and wages of an established "star" could well be significant. It is also quite difficult not to look at Liverpools transfers, be it Rodgers on his own, the committee or even before Rodgers to not think that there is a criteria to be met! Alas we are informed that there isn't but i would guess a neutral looking at all our signings might suggest otherwise. Just my opinion mind.

11 May 2015 01:45:18
The owners are and will never be to blame regardless of how much spin people wanna put on the facts in a bid to absorb BR of any blame for his and our failures and woes.

{Ed001's Note - they did appoint him though, so they have to accept the blame for that stupid decision when Borrell was there if they wanted a coach.}

10 May 2015 09:33:54
. We are signing my nan, seriously if we were to sign every player we are linked with well our wage bill alone lol a big squad lol.

New member guys so u to all and a great sight Eddy

YNWA

10 May 2015 10:52:37
It's been like that for years with Liverpool being linked to everyone.

Papers know they sell when they dream up players that Liverpool are willing to sign as we all fall for it.

It's always been a Liverpool thing as we had it too good for many years. It's only now we have started to fall down from the clouds with.realistic expectations.

{Ed002's Note - The world doesn't revolve around Liverpool - newspapers do not have employees who think that way.}

10 May 2015 12:32:04
Not just Liverpool I am sure but there is no doubt in my mind that 90% of the transfer stories in the papers are guesswork.

10 May 2015 06:54:30
Forgot ed also a rumour don't rule out a bid for a spurs midfield player. Any idea who if we hold interest.

{Ed002's Note - Again Twitter is this?}

10 May 2015 01:02:51
Hey eds, in regards to Heung-min Son, will the fact he hasn't done his mandatory 2 year military service yet, impede on any move we may be potentially looking to make for him?

Thanks in advance and have a lovely weekend.

{Ed002's Note - I don't know. Traditionally deferment is allowable until perhaps 30 (as it is in some parts of mainland Europe and Israel) but it is generally success based. If you are seen to be showing the country in a good light there will not be an issue. So, the top 10 Korean athletes will certainly not have problems with deferment and the top two or three even with exemption. After that, a sliding scale.}

10 May 2015 11:13:19
Don't know if anyone here follows the golf, but one of the Korean players Sang Moon Bae is having issues with this currently. Think he's about 27 and he's won a couple of times too but apparently he's in trouble over trying to defer. Maybe there's a few ins and outs to the situation though.