24 Jan 2019 00:41:06
Just seen a debate on diving in football and it got me thinking. It’s a complicated discussion because diving can be interpreted in different ways, for example there is a blatant dive without any contact, there is going down easily with a bit of contact and there is the attacker initiating contact.

Let’s start with the blatant dive, I think if a player has been found to have gone down with absolutely no contact, there should be harsher punishments to tackle this, i know there is now retrospective action but it needs to be used more, like when salah went down against palace, I don’t think anyone could have complained if he received a 2 game ban!

Now we come to going down too easily, something salah has also been accused of in recent weeks. This can be viewed in 2 ways: it can be said that the attacker is cheating because he could stay on his feet but on the other hand it can also be said that the defender making contact with the attacker is giving the referee an excuse to give a free kick / Penalty. I know it is a contact sport but putting your hand on a players shoulder area like what happened to salah against Newcastle is always going to be running the risk of giving away a foul.

Finally there is the attacker initiating contact. Harry Kane is very good at this and making it look like a foul. I heard a commentator recently describe this tactic as clever which I though was very hypocritical as the commentators/ media are constantly taking about how diving needs to be eradicated and for me, this is just as bad as a blatant dive. It is downright cheating in order to win a foul.

I also think the media pick and choose when they think diving is acceptable and when it isn’t. They never really tend to single out diving when it involves young, english players but jump all over it when it is a foreign player. That is not me defending salah by the way, I personally think his dive against palace was embarrassing but I read Klopp has had a word with him so hopefully that will be the end of his diving!


1.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 03:49:30
Problem is that tackling a player without touching the ball is a foul/ penalty yet no referee is going to give it unless the player goes down.
So wheres the reward in staying on your feet if youve just been wellied, even if you are capable of carrying on? In this instance, you could ALMOST argue that simulation is justified to get the correct decision in your favour.


2.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 05:32:58
For me no contact or minimal contact isn't any difference. Football is a contact sports. So FIFA and all federations need to take this as serious one and action needs to be taken.
P. S we will be happy if one of our players gets a penalty and we defend him but if our opponents done same thing and it impacts the result then we will be, in Ed002 words, toxic.


3.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 06:51:34
We’ve both benefited and suffered with these type of debatable penalty decisions, which is about right, that’s how the game goes.
What will be interesting is if / how VAR may affect this balance?
I suspect, though, it may muddy the waters even further - it’ll certainly show if there was contact or not but whether that contact was sufficient to call a foul then becomes Hunan interpretation and we’re no further ahead than now.


4.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 07:02:30
Have a sin bin for simulation and dissent.

Ref thinks you’ve dived - 10 minutes off the field.
You argue with ref - 10 minutes off the field.

Instant punishment, doesn’t ruin game but helps opponent.

Simulation and dissent would disappear overnight.


5.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 07:38:59
Too much playing on FIFA and PES i would say has led to simulation. Players react even before things have actually happened.
There just cannot be any excuse of diving other than the fact one is a habitual cheat and has been copying on exams since class I and they consider cheating harmless.


6.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 07:57:00
Agree with Ron there, Rugby League have been using the sin bin system for years, must be able to translate that to football.

{Ed025's Note - it would be a bit harsh on liverpool johnny....salah would only be on the pitch for 30 seconds mate.. :)


7.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 07:57:49
Before I start I am not defending him. But think back to last year old Trafford. Young gets turned by salah who is away to latch on to a clipped pass in box. Young grabs his shirt pulls him back, salah stayed on his feet and was unable to get to the pass. He turns to ref who turns it down. Then commentators, pundits, fans. All say if he goes down it's a penalty but ref hasn't given it as he didn't go down! Now agreed v Newcastle he gets shirt tugged not enough to go down but still pulled. He goes down ref gives the penalty. So what are we teaching players? If you try to be honest and are fouled the defender gains an advantage and you don't. Yet if you go down with minimal contact like salah, Young, kane, ali, sterling and numerous others. You are often rewarded! As a former semi professional striker I had this argument so many times with refs after I'd been clipped or pulled and tried to stay up and by time got to ball to shot I was off balance or fell over yet no penalty and told I hadn't went down straight away. So by trying to stay up I was punished. Very difficult problem and both players and refs don't help it. Sorry for long winded post.


8.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 08:24:46
Diving is cheating, but so is shirt pulling, two feet tackles, hand balls, fouling etc. Diving is seen as something foreign players brought to England, it's always had that stigma attached to it. Ask the pundits about a bit of foul play by John Terry and they'll wax lyrical about how that's part of the game. Diving should be punished just like any act of gaining an unfair advantage by breaking the rules of the game. There is no epidemic it's just part of the modern game.


9.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 08:32:23
Bizarre as it sounds, i think a serious punishment should apply purely for over-acting.
If there is contact with the player and he goes to ground there can be debate over whether there was simulation or enough force behind the tackle, etc. But, if he is shown to dive with zero contact whatsoever, he should receive a very harsh retrospective punishment of at least a 3 match ban. Granted we’d probably never get to watch Neymar for more than a couple of times a year but at least it would weed out those who blatantlycheat from those who try to capitalise on a foul.


10.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 09:34:24
A sin bin wouldn't work in football the same way it does in Rugby.
Being a man down in Rugby opens up overlaps and 2v1's and generally makes it easier to attack, whilst making the game more exciting for the spectator.
It does the opposite in football, cause the team down a man parks the entire team behind the ball, both making it harder to score and less entertaining.


11.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 10:00:03
@Virgil, as much as I agree with you, how does the FA decide what an "over-reaction" is, there are so many factors with regards to contact. different levels of contact, body type, speed in which the player is running etc. etc. How can the FA expect to know how you should react to a minimal contact, The FA can't even agree on the offside rule every year, however Neymar should be banned 1 game per full rotation body roll; he is ridiculous.


12.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 10:35:44
I know Salah has had issues with diving, but in the last couple of games, the only one I can readily agree with is the Sakho incidence. That was blatant diving. However, if instead of diving, he'd held the ankle Sakho clipped while hopping in "simulated pain", it could've been a penalty because Sakho obviously clipped him without touching the ball.
I think the issue of what to count as diving will always be there. I remember Inzaghi going down after being barely touched by a Turkish player in Euro 2000, and a UEFA official saying "a push is a push".
The game however is a contact sport, and I think VAR + referee's discretion will help to limit diving. Provided the referee is somewhat competent.


13.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 10:39:34
Coco's post is really good and makes a fantastic point. Damned if you do damned if you don't.


14.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 12:07:57
Zeppelin, i guess i was referring to those incidents that can be watched in slo-mo after the match has finished and retrospective punishment can be meted out. Weve all seen replays where a player has dived without any contact whatsoever and they are the sort of thing id like to see taken to task.


15.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 11:32:18
30 second might be enough to finish some team's off ed😂😂😂.

{Ed025's Note - your probably right mate, its frustrating though because hes such a good player and does not need to resort to blatant cheating to enhance his reputation, which is diminishing with every tom daley moment he has..


16.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 12:27:58
Thanks for the replies, I definitely agree that the referees need to start giving fouls even when the attacker doesn’t go down, maybe then players won’t have the need to go down easily.

Also sg, I know it is a contact sport, I agree with you, what I meant was if you put your hands on a player e. g. pulling them back, even if there is only a small amount of contact, it is usually very easy to spot and gives the referee an excuse to give a foul.


17.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 14:24:39
Coco makes a good point.

Refs should start penilizing shirt pulling even if the player doesn't go down.

Same way players should be carded for talking back to the ref, arguing, swarming around him. Rugby they have to treat the ref with respect, however in footy so much cheating and diving goes on.

I don't agree with diving, but if there is contact, there is contact, shoulder to shoulder is fine, but when there is a clip of the heals that's not a tackle, it's a foul.

The dive the other day from Salah he shouldn't have done it. But because he's a Liverpool player everyone throws their rubbish out the pram. We have seen the likes of young and hazard do it for years.


18.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 19:41:38
Coco makes a brilliant point (along with the OP) . People want to slate those who dive (and I'm fine with that) YET tell those who stayed on their fit and played the game honestly, to go down if they want a penalty for the clear foul on them. And when they go down in a way that does not suit them, they say they flopped, made a meal of it or dived. I'm sorry BUT that is complete hogwash cos you cannot have it all your own way, all 30 ways to Sunday.

Salah was fouled a tonne last season YET just got on with it and whenever he did not go down after contact on him. the same people slating him in the media now, would say "Then, he should go down if he feels he has been fouled". Yet when he does go down like they said he should on minimal contact (like vs Palace with Sahko), they say he is a cheat.

Same with Mane vs Palace. He got kicked clearly in the box BUT cos he did not go down fast enuff (as if there is a time limit for when a fouled player should go down), they say he dived. Again, they keep making up the rules as they go along and pick on who they want.

Bottom line is this: If we are going to call out diving and get rid of it then call it out nd stigmatize it on ALL fronts. Don't pick and choose who you call out and who you choose to protect. Players like Vardy, Hazard, Zaha have been blatantly diving for years now. I mean, They all dived THIS past weekend and they were all left off the hook. Where was the outrage about that? Crickets. Yet when Salah does it (again, I don't condone it) MI6 will have to investigate. I ain't buying it. Either stay consistent or do one, plain and simple.

{Ed002's Note - Salah dived a lot last season as well.}


19.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 21:33:28
Ed02, the only dive I remember Salah doing last season was vs Chelsea at Stamford bridge. Pls, enlighten me on the "a lot" of other times he dived cos sincerely speaking, I don't recall ever seeing him do that. Many thanks, mate.

{Ed002's Note - You should watch the games - TRy CRystal Palcae, try the otehr game against Chelsea - he is a cheat and needs to get it out of his game - Sparky provided examples, I could ask him to provide more for you.}


20.) 24 Jan 2019
24 Jan 2019 23:48:12
I don’t know where poor Sparky gets the time to watch so much football.

{Ed002's Note - He is a dog, he has a lot of time on his hands.}


21.) 25 Jan 2019
25 Jan 2019 00:18:14
Is he a watch dog?