17 Jan 2019 08:25:28
Its correct that people seem to forget how good Couthinio was for us. He gave it his all when he was with us.

Remember the game away to stoke in 16/ 17 season when he was not fit and left behind by Klopp but he drove him self to stoke, asked klopp to put him on the bench came on at half time when we were 1-0 down and score and assisted for us to win the game.

So let's respect what he has also done for the club. He got an opportunity to go for his dream he left and we got a lot of money. He could have stalled signing his contract like them arsenal boys but he signed a new contract a year or so before leaving i think.


1.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 08:38:50
I think you’re looking at it with a bit of rose tint mate.

He went on strike, went public of his desire to leave and faked injuries - not cool

However, it seems a lot of the time in football people hold grudges and take things a bit personally.

For me, what he did was bang out of order. But if he publically apologised and said how he regretted his actions etc, it would be forgotten for me.

Everyone makes errors of judgement or does things they wished they hadn’t. And everyone deserves a second chance.


2.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 08:49:41
I think behind the season he had told the club he wanted to leave if Barcelona came. He must have signed a new contract with no buy out clause in good faith.

We got a lot of money for him and we benefited for that. He didn't go to a rival english club.

And like the example I gave he gave all for the club when he was around.

Much better than what the like of Torres did to us.

{Ed001's Note - how did we get a lot of money for him? We still haven't received anything like the £100m the papers talk about. I wish people would actually find out the truth before claiming others are ignorant.

He signed nothing in good faith, the reason for no buy out clause was purely because they are not legally binding in English football.}


3.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 08:55:59
Why is still a discussion? He is gone, move on. Who cares whether he does well at Barcelona or not? He got the move he wanted, we got the money for our summer spending spree and have a better squad now. He is never coming back to LFC, so he can have his second chance elsewhere.

{Ed001's Note - we didn't get the money from his sale! It does not work like that.}


4.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 09:34:17
Is it not correct though Ed that although we didn’t get all of the money upfront we can spend based on the certainty of the instalments being paid in future?
Surely they can’t say as he’s not good enough they aren’t going to pay the agreed amount?

{Ed001's Note - of course you can't spend when it is based on appearances etc. We won't get them if he is sold, which looks likely. You can't base a financial decision on what might come in unless you are Peter Ridsdale.}


5.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 09:45:14
i fully understand coutinho's situation. i am an software Developer and i am Happy at where i am until Google called. now i have my mind set to Work at Google. that is just simply a dream move which i guess similar to coutinho's situation.


6.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 09:49:15
And that's why Southampton made such a great deal (for them) when they sold us VVD. They knew Klopp wanted him at all costs, and simply sat there until they got what they wanted and all upfront. I guess in time we will feel it was a great deal for us too, going by VVD's performances. I know it's not the norm, but still the best way to do business.


7.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 10:02:25
The best part of the coutinho deal was the extra 100 million clause if barcelona try to sign anyone else.

It might keep salah and mane at liverpool this summer. Both looked to have eyes on barcelona. let's hope madrid don't come a knocking.


8.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 10:20:55
Excuse my ignorance Eds. But question, surely there is safe guards in such a deal? As what then would stop a team buying player x for £30m + £30m based on appearances etc. Then 1 season later selling him on for £50m. Thus player x never reaching required appearances. And them making a Easy £20m profit and never paying any of the add ons they negotiated! The way football is run now as a business I just can't see selling teams not putting in some sort of clause if player x is sold, within a certain time frame that wouldn't allow him required time to ever reach 50 appearances, for argument sake. Or there would be nothing stopping teams from doing this to turn a quick profit. Hope that makes sense and not to silly a question. Great site btw.

{Ed001's Note - or like Wolves did with Afobe and buying him then selling him a few days later you mean?}


9.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 10:25:04
That can’t be right though can it Ed? Surely we have a minimum amount that they have to give us regardless of appearances, goals etc. so we know that we are definitely getting X amount over say 5 years. Otherwise it’s a no brainer for them as we are taking all of the risk.
They can just say ‘we’ll sign him for £50mil but if he’s no good we’ll just sell him and not have to pay any more’. That would be a ridiculous way for us to do business.

{Ed002's Note - I have explained the structure of the finances for the sale of Coutinho previously. You need to move on from this as it is simply causing a lot of confusion.}


10.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 11:09:44
Want I really wanted to comment on was would you have him back?

And I highlighted a story based on which I would say yes I would not mind having him back if situation develops that way.


11.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 11:27:39
tbh you complain about him going on strike etc. but VVD did it to Southampton did he not? works both ways I for one was upset that Couts left but we have progressed much better as a team without him so good luck to him at Barcelona hopefully it works out you'll all be clapping him in 10 years time when he comes to play at a charity event like Suarez and Torres did last year.


12.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 11:36:48
ED002 very kindly laid out the full structure of the Coutinho deal. You can find it by searching with time stamp “31 Dec 2018 15:27:14”.

By looking at the structure most fans will realise how complex transfer deals can be, with portions which are fixed and portions which are contingents on player appearances or team performance. Also note the agent and other third party fees which are due based on their own terms.

All of this outlines the futility of predicting an unwinding of the deal to bring Couts back without having full insight of the clubs current financial position and future projection, access to legal advice and all parties around the table.

I’d love to see Coutinho challenge Mane, Keita and Shaqiri for a spot in the team but with the eye watering numbers involved I hope the club doesn’t jeapordise its future by stocking overpaid players for rotation. If the club can afford him, I’d be delighted!


13.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 11:52:54
So worst case after deduction towards inter and vasco we will still end up getting 110-120 mil i guess.

{Ed001's Note - you mean best case.}


14.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 12:23:33
Well 120 mil is confirmed with just a timing issue.

Solidarity payment to inter = (120*2.5%) *3= 7.5

Solidarity payment to vasco = (120*2.5%) *3= 7.5

5 guaranteed for 25 games

10 guaranteed for knockout stages (group 5 knock out 5)

Grand worst case total = 120-15+15= 120

I know its not as simple as this but just as an approximation for us fans.

{Ed001's Note - has he made those appearances?}


15.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 14:08:57
Money aside, do you not think he will stay and fight ed? If it’s his dream move like he thought, how can you give up so quickly. Even if you are not in favour, put in the shifts in training. I think he should be aiming for a midfield spot, Busquets rakitic Arthur etc, can’t offer what he can.

{Ed001's Note - or maybe he has realised the grass is not so green.}


16.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 13:19:21
My source is only Wiki (apologies! ) but upto 13 Jan 19, Pipco had made 47 appearances for Barcelona - 35 in the league, 5 in the cup, 6 in Europe and 1 'other'.

According to Ed002's great breakdown, we get the next €5m when he reaches 50 "first class appearances". Not sure what the 'Other' is above, but he's 3-4 appearances away from that payment being triggered.

As PakRed has said above, €120m is guaranteed, with the first €48m already having been paid, €24m due this month, €24m due in June and the remaining €24m due in June 20.

We've already been paid the first €5m of €20m appearance related payments (for 25 appearances) with the next €5m arguably imminent (if he's not sold) .

We've already got the first €5m of the €20m related to Champions League performance (when Barcelona qualified for the 2018-19 UCL) and I would think another €5m is pretty much guaranteed as it is dependent on Barcelona qualifying for the UCL group stages in 2019-20 which is pretty nailed on they will do. The remaining €10m is dependent on Barcelona winning it in each year, which they won't do because we will :)

So, if we assume that he leaves before hitting 75 or 100 appearances for Barca, then we have:

€120m fixed, €10m from appearances (if he reaches 50) and €10m from Barcelona qualifying for the UCL Group stages in 2018-19 and 2019-20 so €140m. Of this we owe Vasco and Inter a total of 5% which is €7m so netting €133m, albeit over time.

I have a couple of questions (probably for Ed002) if I may, just to help our understanding of football finances:

1) Regarding the €120m which is fixed, when would Liverpool be able to book that as revenue in their books for FFP purposes? Is it at point of sale, or at point of receipt of the monies?

2) Also regarding the €120m, are the payment dates adhered to even if the player subsequently is sold by the club? I presume they are even if he leaves, rather than the remaining amount being payable immediately (I seem to remember that we were still paying for players that we had subsequently sold some time earlier)

3) Regarding the UCL related payments, if the player leaves the club beforehand, but they still qualify for/ win the competition, are the payments still due or are they only relevant whilst he is at the club?

Thank you!

Z.

{Ed002's Note - (1) This is not simple as the club borrowed against the income. (2) Yes, typically that is how it works but there is the caveat we spoke of previously if they are to buy another player from Liverpool which would see them paid up. (3) Only whilst he is with the club - people have been court out by not making that clear before (e.g. Liverpool).}


17.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 15:07:54
I think it's easy for us to criticise Coutinho as, for any of us to play for Liverpool would be a dream come true. It's different though for South Americans. Their Holy Grail, or at least the majority of them, is to play for Real Madrid or Barcelona. So, while I certainly don't like what he did or how he went about it, I can to some extent understand why he did it. If he didn't take the chance then he might never get another one.


18.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 16:31:52
Thanks Ed002, appreciate it.

Z.


19.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 17:44:55
Can we just pay barcelona what they have paid and get him?


20.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 18:28:55
VakPa, why would we pay them the best part of €80m (roughly what we've received so far) to have a player back who doesn't have a natural position in our shape of team, other than the Shaqiri role in a 4-2-3-1, which Shaq is playing quite nicely himself thank you? In a 4-3-3 he doesn't fit in the middle 3, so he'd have to take Salah or Mane's place. Which would you pick to bench for him? Passing by Pulisic proved to me that a) Mane or Salah are not likely to move any time soon (thankfully) and b) the club is not prepared to pay c€70m for someone to have in rotation. Pipco would cost at least 10-20% more (if not more than that) .

Also, why would he want to come back to us when he's not guaranteed a starting position? His dream was to play for Barcelona and he's on the bench there quite often. If he moves away from his dream club, I would imagine he would want to move to a club where he was a guaranteed starter.