25 Jul 2018 18:14:02
Right one for all you old fogeys/ fogies? The ones with bi-focal rose tinted and spanking new mega specs, not just the 'everything was better in my day' fogeys.

Basically, yesterday on Talksport the archetypal walking, talking, tabloid spouting armpit that is Bob Mills (I used to like him, but listening to him just makes me more stupiderer but not as much as Cascarino and Parlour) was waxing lyrical about the late (great? ) Paul Madeley, RIP. I was intrigued to hear that he was apparently jack and master of all trades. One of those play anywhere and be one of the best in his position type players. I would say I have a pretty good footballing knowledge, but until then I'd never heard of him. Now, considering this was at a time when Don Revie was managing Leeds and they were back to back champions of England and European Cup semi finalists, this got me thinking.

We often hear about these amazing players and teams from yesteryear, kicking lumps out of eachother on fields akin to lava plains whilst gliding across the surface and riding tackles like Bart Simpson on a skateboard. It's easy to remember these teams as being truly world class and that teams nowadays couldn't hold a candle to them but is that really the case?

Take Madeley as a case in point. To be playing for arguably one of the best, if not the best, team in England at the time and not getting moved about to fit in, but to enhance the area of the pitch you were positioned in, you have to be some player. There are very few players who could do that nowadays. Milner, maybe. Gerrard would have been one of the best on the pitch whichever position he got put in (which is why he'll always come top of the Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard debate for me, but that's a different story), but he wasn't played all over mainly because he was best affecting games, not filling in at right back and hoping for the best from the other attackers. What I'm getting at is if you can fill in anywhere (and not just fill in, he played over 700 times for Leeds), but not be a household name what does that say about the standard of football then? I'm not criticising, I wasn't born, it's a genuine question.

The other thing that makes me wonder about comparisons. The all conquering Liverpool teams of the 70's and 80's were made up vastly of British players. I'm not going to compare international and domestic football, but I will say that, judging by the success of the home nations back then and comparing it to now there isn't to much difference, Scotland aside, having fallen by the wayside. These world beating domestic players still weren't the huge international stars that you would expect.

Dalglish is supposedly our best ever player. I have no doubt that he was magnificent for his time, but would he really be the best player in today's Liverpool team? Would Paisley's European giants have won the Premier League? Or, were they simply the best players available from a pool of British talent not yet awash with foreign imports?

I can well imagine that watching any of the best teams of the 60s, 70s and 80s was a joy to behold, but were they so good because the opposition was so poor by comparison and the deficiencies in sport science, by today's standards? Obviously, we will never know. I just wondered what people's thoughts were.

{Ed002's Note - MIlls is a comedian, bright and interesting and gets on well when imbibing with a Millwall supporting buddy of mine. If evolution had not driven "some" Liverpool fans down the knuckledragger route and the still had the old sense of humour perhaps they would understand.}


1.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 21:35:07
Ed002, Bob Mills is brilliant. ‘In bed with me dinner’ is one of my favourite television shows ever. I tend to think if people don’t get his wit, then irony and sarcasm isn’t for them.


2.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 22:14:57
Mills grates on most people I know, he talks complete she*p.

{Ed002's Note - As a Liverpool supporter that is probably your view on absolutely everything.}


3.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 22:32:29
Personally I find today’s footballers over managed/ coached players are like robots in many respects drilled to do the exact thing depending where they are and where the ball is. The modern game is played on carpets, compared to battle fields of 70s and 80s. You’d struggle now to be top footballer without being an elite athlete. Players of the past were working class, done things like you and me you could relate to them more. Players in the 70s and 80s managed a game way better, they could change things without looking to bench for help! Dalglish was unbelievable with his back to goal he was without equal, his ability to bring others into play was uncannot and watch some of his goals, his finishing was top draw.


4.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 22:42:30
I know ed. I enjoy his stand up and like his wry sense of humour, but he is on Talksport nearly everyday now and that has tainted him, in my eyes. He spouts some nonsense that you would expect from a loud mouthed buffoon that reads the red tops and takes it as gospel. When he sticks to the sort of material that his career has been built on, he is as entertaining as usual. Maybe the influence of sitting next to Jim White everyday and the narrative he wants to create has dumbed him down somewhat.

{Ed002's Note - As a Liverpool supporter there is a pretty good chance you whine constantly.}


5.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 22:57:34
For me AB the Liverpool side of the early 80s could live with any team ever. The Scottish spine of Hansen Souness and Dalglish had a winning mentality like nobody else and they made it infectious. We had 11 leaders all over the park. Comparing them to modern great sides is difficult though the modern player is a much fitter athlete. Some of the tackles they got away with in the 80s are straight cards nowadays. Our team from the early 80s in the physical condition of the modern player would beat anyone in my opinion, they were tactically astute, skilful and most of all never knew when they were beat.


6.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 23:07:59
“Sports science” was obviously unheard of back in the day. Footballers didn’t earn the crazy wages they earn now. They were normal human beings who could identify with the rest of society. They didn’t live in ginormous mansions with private gyms and servants tending to their every need. Often they had to have second jobs to pay the bills.
They had normal lives and the same problems other normal people had.
Pitches were poor
Training grounds were worse
Balls were heavy, not balloons like today.
Boots were heavy not the light slippers they have today.
Diets were like any other working man.
They travelled on tatty coaches not helicopters and non-standard private jets.

It was a different world, they played a different game with different rules and referees. You just can’t compare with any confidence. You can only compare most players with their contemporaries. There are exceptions - Maradona, Best, Pele. These players could run rings round the modern day players.


7.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 23:10:11
As a person I whine constantly. Being a Liverpool supporter has nothing to do with it.


8.) 25 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 23:33:36
I know its a difficult thing to compare and contrast, I just wonder if those players, with today's ability to create athletes first and foremost would be as successful. The idea of a different mentality and having the never say die attitude is an interesting one, and one that would probably be drummed out of them nowadays. So would Souness be the same player, for example, with all the grit and fighting spirit, so to speak, not as encouraged now? I guess what I mean is all things being equal, who would win out of Liverpool circa '81 or Liverpool 2018? It's almost to simplistic to ask but I wasn't around and some you lot have been lucky enough to see it all.


9.) 26 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 23:45:04
AB, this is one of those impossible to prove questions that will just cause arguments (licks lips) .

I expect that the game today is a magnatude better than it was 30 years ago for two reasons, sports science is the first. Today's players will be faster, fitter, stronger and train better than the players of that era.

The second reason is that I expect the talent level to be higher today simply because the player pool is so much larger. English teams 30 years ago we almost exclusively British, today the best players from all over the world come to England, the talent pool is 100 times larger.

Note that the best players in England's top flight were probably as good as the best players today but the worst players would have been terrible, League 1 out 2 at best. Your Dalglishes and Sounesses would have been fine but the rest would probably struggle.


10.) 26 Jul 2018
25 Jul 2018 23:49:17
They had to have determination to succeed in those days because only the very best could earn enough from football alone.
You had to play, you had to succeed.

Now some 18yr olds sign a contract and are financially made for life. Where’s the motivation to put your body and future health on the line?


11.) 26 Jul 2018
26 Jul 2018 00:05:27
It’s impossible to compare players and teams across different eras, football changes so much. Today’s players benefit from better fitness and nutrition knowledge, not to mention better pitches and less physical opponents. Teams are different too, imagine how good a team like Anderlect or Club Brugge would be today if 90% of the Belgium squad played in their domestic league as they did in the 70’s. All you can do is appreciate a player or a team for what they did in their own era and decide for yourself who was the best.


12.) 26 Jul 2018
26 Jul 2018 09:11:50
That's what I mean Putney. The cream always rises to the top, but it has to sit on something. Maybe they were all amazing players, Hansen undoubtedly, but would Lawrenson have even made the bench today? Phil Neal is Liverpool's most decorated player, but would he have gotten his chance in today's climate? Obviously, back then, same as now you have to work together as a team and recognise your weaknesses as well as your strengths. Nowadays, the idea is to have a balanced team if possible, with strength in depth but were there various weak links back then because a team of superstars just wasnt available?