1.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 07:37:07
Brill thanks Ed, have a good one mate!

{Ed001's Note - you too mate.}

2.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 07:39:10
Thanks ed001. Have a great day. Busy day for me today a 2 day wedding to attend.

{Ed001's Note - good luck to the bride and groom and have a great day Jimmy.}

3.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 07:44:54
Good morning mate.

{Ed001's Note - morning Ir89.}

4.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 07:54:39
Thanks for the update Ed. Why does the Sanchez situation put a big smile on my face? We start pre-season training with Cheltenham academy today. Back in the game!

{Ed001's Note - welcome RR, good luck with pre-season, I hope it is better than it used to be at Cheltenham. I used to train over the summer with a few of their players just after they got into the Football League. They used to get really arsey about being megged etc in front of my mate's kids who would be there for a kickabout. To be honest the only one who was any good was the one who left because he earnt more in his normal job and so wouldn't give it up to go pro, though his name escapes me now.}

5.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 08:13:11
I'm still amazed that national service exists anywhere in this modern world. It's like some countries are still clinging to the dark ages.

{Ed001's Note - it is not such a bad thing or outdated, it just depends on how it is used. If you had national service that included things like working as a porter or some kind of aide in a hospital, it would be useful and helpful.}

6.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 08:28:41
Totally agreed Ed001. For example my friend who did his mandatory Israeli army service was a fitness coach. And my other friend who did his South Korean service is an accountant. Some good skills to be gained and it can look great on the CV. Of course not everyone has it as good as these chaps though.

{Ed001's Note - I know in the US a lot of people who served purely because it was the only way to get a college degree when they came from poor backgrounds. It can be beneficial to the country as a whole when it is implemented correctly.}

7.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 08:32:26
I think you are speaking from a place of slight ignorance, MK. I do appreciate that you mean no ill intent with your comment though.

I am British but grew up in Singapore. Most of my mates had to serve and all of them spoke about doing national service in a positive manner. In fact it regarded so highly that even some of my non-Singaporean friends elected to do national service in order to get permanent residency in Singapore.

While half of the kids in the UK at the age of 18 go off to uni to study dance theory and get pissed every night, young Singaporean men join the army and learn some real life lessons and skills that they carry with them for the rest of their life.

I personally think the UK could benefit massively if National Service was brought back in some way shape or form.

P. s. before you go saying Singapore is in the dark ages for doing NS have a look at how much better Singapore ranks compared to the UK in almost every single performance metric there is!

8.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 08:32:41
That's true Ed, but most countries seem to use it to drill all creativity and unique thinking out of people, and train them to March with an assault rifle.

On a side note, a few of my friends joined the army after school and when I met up with them a year ago they were just so rigid and boring. Like all the fun had been beaten out of them. They just spent all night flexing and smouldering. I think basic training Chapter 1 must be "how to become an arrogant lady killer". The girls can't cope bless them. Maybe I'm in the wrong job. My mates are ugly as sin but when they drop the 'soldier' card they will take home a 10/ 10 on each arm.

{Ed001's Note - I disagree completely. It is not like that at all.}

9.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 08:57:20
Amazing Ed. Who did you play for? What was you position?

{Ed001's Note - I didn't, I just used to have kickabouts with them in the summer when I was out with my friend and his kids. It would end up with loads of the kids mates joining in and then a bunch of parents etc, then a few of them were up there doing fitness work and would join in. It ended up as 30-a-side games sometimes.}

10.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:01:48
Red Sandman, that is all well and good but I still don't agree with forcing people into it. I'll die before I have to watch my little brother suffer again.

It's easy for outgoing, athletic people to say it's a good thing. I grew up and saw first hand how much people like my brother suffer at the hands of a forced system. It's bad enough that he had to go to a public school and be made to feel completely inferior.

I nearly signed up for the Royal Commandos myself. I agree that there is opportunity for some to be found. For others, you are just forcing them into an uncomfortable zone and promoting mental illnesses.

11.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:05:41
Sorry MK but this time, you really don't know what you're talking about. That is not what any national service that i've ever heard of and i suspect you're talking about army conscription which is a different thing entirely (although still not something accurately portrayed by what you're saying)

12.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:07:28
This is probably not for this page but it's a subject close to my heart as ex-forces. The military is a fantastic organisation in terms of what it provides its members, I've seen countless people, who wouldn't have received the same opportunities elsewhere, thrive in service. It also provides a structure and support network for those who might struggle to get by more independently.

National service is more complex, first of all it must provide a service to the nation, there no point in the government paying for people to soldier for their benefit rather than the nation's, the money would be far better spent on public education.

I'm not sure of Singapore's political circumstances but if there's a requirement to man a military force that couldn't be maintained without national service then it's a good idea for them. In the UK, however, we don't maintain a large standing military so national service isn't the right thing for us.

13.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:16:07
Really enjoy reading the review of the day. Top stuff Ed.

{Ed001's Note - cheers FMS glad you enjoy.}

14.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:34:11
Mk where to start, the royal commandos? I’ve been in the army for nearly 12 years now, having the fun beaten out of me isn’t anything I’ve ever had levelled at me if anything it’s the main redeeming feature of the British military in that when the chips are down we are able to retain our sense of humour call each other c**ts and get on with it. I’m not sure anyone becomes boring and rigid just because they did basic training and hopefully your not just saying things to form an argument that doesn’t exist. Like anywhere some soldiers are morons the vast majority are not. Some will get into fights but they are trained to be violent and our mental health awareness is still not great after years of operations. I know this was about national service which we don’t and should not have but thought I would chime in as MK is making us sound like angry versions of the guys out of zoolander.

15.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:41:52
Really good post as always Putney. Very unbiased and concise.

Hjikle, sadly I know too much about the inner workings of the army, because my dad was there for 12 years, and my mum was there for 3 years. I'm not talking about conscription at all.

My dad loved his time in the army and made a lot of friends; some for life. My mum hated it and used to cry nearly every night. She told me that she only married my dad to escape the military. They grew to love each other eventually, but that to me is just proof that it isn't for everyone. I have two completely different first hand experiences on demand.

I personally enjoy meeting people who've been through different life experiences and hearing about what they've done. I had 5 good mates at school. One joined the Army, one had a kid young and got s job, one went to Uni, one went to college, one is still backpacking around Asia, and I did an apprenticeship. If national service had been forced on us at 18, we'd all have been funnelled down the same path. Discipline makes society safe and functional, but individualism is what makes it worth living in.

People may criticise those who go to University to study dance, sport, art, acting etc. But you all go home to put your TV's on and watch those people to escape the stresses of your 9-5 job.

Another guy I went to school with, although not a mate per se, smoked pot every night. His talent was art. Now he has his own business designing business logos and T-shirts at 24 years old. Where is his place in a national service scheme? He has no skills physically and failed every exam he's ever taken. But put a pencil in his hand and he's a genius.

I really do think the military offers great opportunity to some people. Honestly. It made my dad who he is today. But anybody who thinks it suits everyone equally is being very biased just because it suited them and their friends. I have no issues with people serving in the army. I fully agree it is a great way to learn skills and develop as a person. I am purely against forcing it on people it doesn't suit. That's all. I hope I didn't offend anyone as I'm sure It's affected plenty of people positively.

16.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:42:51
Hey there.

I know this really isn’t the page for this topic, but because I’m a Singaporean who has served national service, I think I can help by giving you guys a bit of perspective.

National Service in our country is mandatory because of the history of our country. Singapore is a small island nation with no natural resources other than the people living on the island. We now have a population of about 5 million.

Back in the 1800s Singapore was a British settlement and remained so until World War 2. During the war, Singapore was captured by the Japanese forces and the British no longer had a sizable presence in Singapore. After gaining independence from the war, the Singapore Government decided that it could no longer solely depend on allies for national security. Hence there was a need for a local defence force that could be activated at any time to defend Singapore.

At that point in time, Singapore’s neighbours were also going through a time of “reformation” which led to tension between countries due to racial, political and economic differences. That heightened the need for a defence force that the country can rely on.

Fast forward to modern day, National Service in Singapore has changed a lot. Majority of us (who are medically and physically fit) still go through the basic military training. From there we get posted to various branches of the military to serve. Those who are not capable of serving from a physical or mental point of view will either be given a different administrative or supportive role. Generally speaking, national service has done more good than harm in terms of giving people jobs, providing national security, upskilling the workforce and even keeping people fit. Although many will disdain at the fact that they might lose 2 years.

Deferment of National Service has only been given to athletes who have an opportunity to participate or achieve something great at a national level. E. g. Joseph School (you can google him) . The Ministry of Defence in Singapore’s stand for Ben Davies states that his situation is no different from pursuing personal goals which are no different from the rest of us Singaporeans. And deferment will only be allowed in "exceptional circumstances".

Personally, I feel that the Government should seriously consider allowing him to defer his National Service because an opportunity of this magnitude does not come everyday for Singaporeans. But then again, it opens a can of worms due to the complexities and other considerations of “fairness” for others who have had to give up their dreams to serve the country.

Just my 2 cents, or pennies for you guys.
PS. Sorry for the long post.

17.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:48:17
Haha, sorry if I offended you Den. Just to be clear I was literally just making conversation/ banter about a couple of mates of mine. I didn't mean to imply that all soldiers are like that. My mate is just a knob. He fancied himself long before the military got hold of him. The military just gave him the power to pull girls at will, and fuel his ego!

My mum and dad are still very fun people. Apologies mate. That was a bad idea to share an inside joke have with my mates, online.

18.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 09:54:04
Really great insight nedla. It sounds like Singapore run their national service program in a very modern and effective way.

One line stood out for me though; "for others who have had to give up their dreams to serve the country. "

We each get one life to live. If national service prevents even one person from chasing their "dreams", then It's not my cup of tea. I am genuinely pleased to hear that they don't force non athletic people into physical servitude though. There is nothing more cruel than making someone do something they are physically or mentally incapable of. That changes my persoective on it slightly so thank you for taking the time to educate me.

19.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 10:03:34
Royal Marine Commandos, i think it was called Den. I used to do their fitness entry requirements off my own back in the gym, because i was so determined to join them. I was 18 at the time though, and I didn't get good enough A-level results so I got an apprenticeship in Engineering instead. I was disappointed, but it turned out all right in the end I guess.

20.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 10:09:18
MK - if you're talking about 'national service', which was originally what was being discussed, and relating it entirely to the army and military service you are literally talking about conscription. Even in countries that have compulsory national service like israel and korea do not force everyone to be in the military or anything to do with combat units. When you are forced specifically into the military, it is a conscription.

And you might know quite a bit about serving in the British army (although I'd hazard a guess that it's probably changed a bit in culture since your parents time), or even generally about professional armies. But armies that are primarily composed of non-career soldier i. e. people who are there for short times or as part of a part time rotation often have very different cultures because they are far less institutional and far less of a 'lifestyle' rather than a job or duty. Something that is often reflected in post service employment rates, mental health and social groupings.

21.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 10:10:36
If we had national service in our country then we might not just be a nation of oiks and idiots and might actually keep some of the respect and discipline that everywhere but here and America seem to hold. I would go so far as to say we need it because these new generations are not being educated in the right way socially and morally by either parents or schools. The divide is not being created by the rich and poor, but by the ignorant under educated (which includes all the super duper wonder yuppies) and the rest. It is possible to be rich and not be a dick, similarly it is possible to be poor and not think that Love Island counts as a documentary.

Bit of a rant in the end but national service does not mean you have to go to war, but to take on social responsibility with people of different backgrounds, class levels etc and understand that society should be social, working for eachother, not against eachother which everyone in Briatain seems to have long forgotten. It wouldn't solve everything but it would be too big a thing not to help.

22.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 10:33:49
France are reintroducing it.

1 month you have to serve from the age of 16.

I think 6 months from 16. Not war duties and after you can sign up or leave for a college placement.

23.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 10:32:46
One final point to add on the national service bit I promise.

In Singapore National Service doesn't mean you have to join the army.

I had a number of mates who joined the police force or the fire brigade.

Fire brigade was the funniest of the lot. Singapore is a rain forest. Not that many fires to put out to say the least! Or if there is a fire, you just need to wait until the biblical rains occur every 12 hours or so. So basically the firemen just chill out all day and do drills.

Red Sandman.

24.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 10:53:49
Hjikle and Bardzo, I didn't mean to imply that national service involves combat. If I implied that, I've misrepresented my own argument. Seems like a terminology thing as i don't consider "military" to mean "combat". You can be a military chef, or a military doctor. They do all go through basic training though. Nedla literally just confirmed that from first hand experience. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of people would be seriously embarrassed by having to do what basic training entails.

I honestly just can't see the justification for it. The things you want fixing Bardzo, could be fixed with a better School curriculum. I left school able to work out every angle in a triangle or tell you how every religion prays, but I didn't know how to write a CV or how to do internet banking. My dad taught me that. Some people might not be so lucky. School doesn't prep kids for adult life. It preps them for exams. We don't need national service to rectify that in my opinion.

I would like to say by the way, I'm really proud of how far this site has come. This has been a really mature and classy debate. Nobody has lowered the tone or kicked off, on a political subject! That has to be an internet first. There are some good lads on here.

25.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 11:04:52
Red Sandman, it really does sound like Singapore have refined national service to a very good system. I couldn't see it working in the UK because there is too much diversity and it would throw up all kinds of arguments about gender inequality. It does seem like it works for Singapore overall though. Still a shame it is affecting a young footballers career though.

I do retract my "Dark Ages" statement though. That was overly harsh in hindsight after the accounts you and others have presented.

26.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 11:42:01
Have a great time Jimmy!

27.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 11:43:46
Great read nedla.

28.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 11:45:36
No worries MK. It is always genuinely interesting to hear your side (as always - I love your champions league pre-match reviews) .

It has to be said that this site is pretty special. We all come here looking for Liverpool news and end up having a discussion about the pros and cons of National Service!

Red Sandman.

29.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 11:56:20
Not LFC related but As as an ex service man, I think national service is a fantastic idea. Whilst it wouldn’t be beneficial or needed for all, it would certainly Instill some much needed discipline, purpose and ambition in some of today’s young people. Loved my time in the U. K. military and would do it all again if I could.

30.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 11:59:49
Exactly Red Sandman. I've learned a lot from the discussion. For a start I had no idea it can stretch to serving in the public emergency services. Although I knew there was no combat, I thought it was only the Army, Air force or Navy you could serve with.

Civil debate is a very powerful thing because you're more likely to respect someone's opinion when they don't just slaughter your own! I really enjoyed the discussion, personally.

31.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 12:43:15
I conflate National Service with the military but I have to say that I'd agree with some sort of obligatory civil or public service. It's difficult to get the balance right but it could be beneficial.

To Bardzo and Westwood, you're making the mistake that every generation makes, that you think there's something wrong with the next generation. Your forbears thought the exact same thing of you and teenagers today will think the exact same thing of the next generation. Its a cycle that will go on forever and is caused by the experienced unfairly judging the inexperienced.

Even if there was a problem National Service, whether military or civil, is an awful tool for social change. It can reinforce your existing character but it can't change you. A beat being forced into service just becomes a brat in uniform. If you want to change society then the only way to do it is to pour money into education.

P. s. MK, cheers for the compliment.

32.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 13:00:44
Just to be clear I’m against national service in the UK as a professional Army I would have serious reservations about enlisting young people who did not want to be here. As someone said up the page it is a very different world to the 80s and early 90s but of course we still have our three toed dinosaurs coming to the end of their careers. We have problems with retention (like the whole of the public sector) but national service is not the answer for me. I talk from a position of ignorance as the 18 months of technical training we do after basic training would mean its unworkable for us specifically and you really need to be a certain kind of personality to have a career in teeth arms units, so MK you are correct in that it’s not for everyone and in a country like the UK it shouldn’t be forced on you and guys that are not interested in service don’t need to be forced on us.

{Ed001's Note - that is not national service. You are talking about conscription, a completely different thing. Please stop mixing things up talking about something that has nothing to do with national service.}

33.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 13:01:40
Nice debate guys.

Good read indeed.

34.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 13:11:33
How do any of you have the time to be on here throughout the day?! Lol. work productivity must be dwindling lol.

35.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 13:29:33
I appreciate all the counter arguments. I'm just disappointed in the way our country, and attitudes are staying the same or even regressing, when most of the rest of the world seems to be evolving. I may be wrong, but that is certainly how it feels. Crime rates are increasing, jail capacities are maxed, people see their neighbours as people not to be trusted rather than people to rely on. There is an unbelievably selfish attitude to everything in Britain and putting lovey dovey messages on Facebook decreeing peace, love and lentils, or whatever still does not mean those same people wouldn't give up a parking space out side their house because they had walk 10 feet further. I'm not just pee'd off with the next generation but mine as well. We're a bunch of softies brought up by another bunch of post war hippies, who instead of having their parents attitude to society, rebelled with the new found liberty and decided to stick two fingers up to everyone and everything.

I genuinely think that we are too far gone to turn us into a country that the rest of the world would respect again, and one where we can have some deserved self respect. Seeing as no one gives a damn off their own back, maybe a countrywide scheme that everyone has to be involved in, may reverse some of the disconnect most of us have for everything that is not in our own tiny bubble. That, to me, is what national service is all about.

36.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 13:40:44
I handed in my notice 5 weeks ago lfcdiamond. I think I'm on a gardening leave of sorts because although I'm still turning up every day, my boss hasn't brought me as much work of late. I don't think I'm trusted anymore 😂.

37.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 13:47:14
This made a great read. I won't get involved with the debate but still, great read all.

38.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 18:30:20
I’m in favour of it (national service) .

39.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 19:01:08
True Salah, good subject. Sorry for my negativity all, by the way. I wouldn't say I like moaning, more that it's simply a compulsion that cheers me up.

40.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 19:32:27
Sorry Putney but talking from experience it can change you for they better. I am a completely different person now than I was before my service and I owe my time in the military to the success I have now made of my life. Long story short, I was on drugs and going nowhere. Not to brag but I am 31 years old, finishing my degree this week, and own two houses. All from the experience, drive and purpose that I learnt from the military, with some elbow grease to boot. It’s not for everyone I agree, but it can change people for the better.

41.) 17 Jul 2018
17 Jul 2018 20:40:36
Well done westwood for changing your life around mate, massive respect to you. I wish more people would take the route you did to improve themselves. Bravo mate.