Is there more to Professional Football than kicking a ball?

29 Mar 2018 20:36:38
{Ed's Note - MK Scouser has posted a new article entitled, Is there more to Professional Football than kicking a ball?


1.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 20:53:26
Nice little read there buddy.

Bit risky saying that people working in the NHS and army aren't 'worth more', but I get what you mean and good job for explaining the statement.


2.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 21:10:36
I was always told that the biggest danger to young players was the large amount of free time that they all had, and thereby run the risk of going off the rails a bit. I don’t personally believe that they have to really work hard at all, infact quite the opposite. I would describe what they do as pretty easy, as long as they have the desire and the talent - which only a select few have. If they have that desire, the training and dietary habits come easy and the training is enjoyable. As for stress - give me a break. Try my job for a day.

As regards the money, totally agree. They are paid what they are worth - which as you say is unfair, but the way of the world. They have done more to make their wealth than a hell of a lot of other obscenely wealthy people, and if the money didn’t go to them, it would go to some guys in suits (who already do very well out of the game) . Whether it’s a footballer or a movie star, some industries pay obscene amounts of money to the select.


3.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 21:13:21
Very provocative views and will make a lot of people angry. They don't deserve the massive salaries that are talked about and many people can't afford the prices to watch a live game or pay for tv etc. Nurses and many others deserve a lot more. Yes many work hard and are away from their families but so are many of us ordinary people who are not blessed with a gift and talent to play football. I love the game at all levels but your view is extreme and wrong for me.


4.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 21:41:58
I don't think anyone would argue that players 'deserve' to be paid so many millions, but they're just getting a big slice of a very big pie.

I'm sure nurses and doctors would be paid a lot more if they were working in an industry worth billions. Not fair but that's how it is!


5.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 21:47:28
Probably one of your best articles that MK, I was a little worried reading the comments before I read it but you backed up what you said (regarding the NHS) correctly, I can't argue against what you have said at all.

Honestly I don't know how that article can make people angry? it's the truth whether we like it or not, this is what it is. It's the way of the times.

Do I agree with footballers been paid all they're paid? no but it's how it is and how it'll always be, the fees/ wages will increase and increase and people will always moan and say 'doctors should be on 10 x more ' etc etc, not going to happen because it's impossible.


6.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:16:02
I understand what you are trying to get across in the post . But I whole heartedly disagree with most of it . You have portrayed the life of a footballer well . but what about nurses? Working 60 -70 hours a week having to deal with poeple who are sick irritable, irregular hours . dealing who people they get close to who die? My sister works on a cancer ward, she does so because she likes the work, I have no idea why . not once has she complained about her wage as she does something she loves .

Soliders do what they do as that is there choice but they 'protect ' our country with there actions fighting against the enemy of the state at the time . these men and women are on tour for months, not on a fancy plane or coach for a few hours to kick a ball . they don't get to see there family's while there away.

Both these professionals make a massive commitment to their professions way above what a footballer would give. So yes I my eyes they do deserve more money for what they give to there community and country .

Footballers do have a very short career but most of them are just out for a payday that will keep them in a fashion they are a custom too . This money should be put back into grass roots football where it can make a massive difference to kids coaches and teams . The world has gone mad when someone can be paid 500,000 a week for kicking a ball .


7.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:24:52
You never hear people getting at Robbie Williams or Tom Cruise?

What nonsense!

Just like the premise and delivery of this argument.

Since when is it considered acceptable to send death threats by the majority of fans?

Using exaggeration because your notions are absurd.

Then you say you get what you are worth in this world. Followed by life isn't fair all the time. So which is it? Again just a rambling nonsense.

And to your footballer idolising statement that they are worth more than nurses or other social servants. Probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

They are obviously worth more to you but not to society at large.

Don't mean for this to be a personal attack cos it's not but I seen people agreeing with this ill conceived rubbish and had to respond.


8.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:24:54
Believe me, I wish soldiers and NHS staff could realistically be paid as much as footballers. Both my parents were in the army, and two of my aunt's are Nurses. For what they give, they without a doubt deserve more than footballers. Unfortunately, they are not worth as much to their industry from a financial perspective. They are also easier to replace because they have a skill that can be taught to an extent. Football ability is much more "you either have it or you Don't".

Football fills thousands of stadiums every single weekend in nearly every country in the world. No other entertainment industry can boast that. Cricket, Tennis, Golf etc is all seasonal. Rugby is onlybpopulatlr in a few countries. Basketball, American Football and Baseball are limited to much less countries despite being massive in the US.

Football as a product can't be that far off the Music and Movie Industry in terms of how much money is involved across the globe. It is huge. The players make the game what it is, and that is why they are worth so much to the industry. You can easily argue they Don't deserve It, but as a general rule, most of them earn every penny fair and square and there is far more to it than showing up on Saturday to kick a ball.

Don't tarnish the majority because of the actions of the minority.


9.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 21:23:25
Am sorry MK you are without a doubt a decent bloke but that article is complete and utter bollocks.

I have been to India and seen children with their arms and legs cut off by their families so they could get more money from begging. Get up at 5am are you for real?


10.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:28:10
Denzil, you have repeated what I said buddy. They Don't deserve those salaries, I agree. My whole argument is that they are worth it to their industry, not that they deserve it from a moral perspective.


11.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:39:18
“Footballers earn more because they are worth more”

Than healthcare workers.

Ok MK, tell us how YOU measure a persons “worth”

Personally, I think it’s a ridiculous statement.

{Ed0333's Note - Personally MK I think your gonna Kop a lot of flack for this article. I can’t see how the common man will concur with the majority of your arguments. Footballers eating pasta @ 5am for a midday kick off, getting paid to go to the gym? My heart bleeds. And when have you heard anybody say Tom Cruise or any other movie star is worth their pay packets. Klopp is not worth 7 million a year and Salah not worth the reputed £200k a week that’s being touted. Reward for popular culture in this day and age is abusive (it always has been) and your article doesn’t disprove my opinion. I would rather Doctors, Nurses, teachers etc earn more and footballers less that would make me abundantly happy. And where did you get the 80% tax rate figure from you quoted for service industry staff to get a pay rise? You evidently know your football but an economist you are not my friend.


12.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:44:58
Marto, your reply is just rude. I've put my point across without personally attacking the people on the other side of the argument and backed up my points logically. Why can't you? You've just attacked me and not offered any solutions.

Where did I say footballers are worth more to society? That is a total misquote. I said they are worth more to their industry. If you can prove to me that a nurse or a soldier produce £100,000 of profit a week, I'll say they are worth it too. You can't though because both industries run at such huge losses that they are propped up by taxes. Would you happily give up most of your private sector salary to subsidise a public servant earning £5million a year?

I said you get what you are worth, and then explained why footballers are worth more to their industry. I then said that is unfair because morally nurse's and soldiers deserve more. Yet you've implied that is a contradiction somehow.

People are missing my point. I am not saying it is right or that the salaries are reflective of what these people morally deserve. I'm saying the the healthcare and military indisustries cannot pay staff more because the money isn't there. If you care that much, give your money to nursing and veterans charities, instead of to football. If you Don't care enough to do that, Don't moan about their wages.


13.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:46:53
I’m sorry but this is the worst debate I’ve seen on here footballers make sacrifices but for their own gain nurses make sacrifices for the benefit of others not quite sure how footballers really justify the money they earn even in relative terms.


14.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:48:11
Mark, again I've not said they deserve their money because of that. I have made two separate arguments.

1) there is more to pro football than just kicking a ball.

2) footballers are paid what they are worth to their industry.

Nowhere have I said footballers deserve that money because they get up early or have a hard life. I've said exactly the opposite but people seem to be confusing my two points and mixing them up.


15.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 22:53:19
How on earth do you seek to equate public sector services with multinational private industry?

Not going to bother with this nonsense, it’s too toxic.


16.) 29 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 23:11:12
Just for the record soldiers aren't asking to be paid ridiculous amounts of money but the Conservatives have managed to pick away at wages so much so that the amount of guys and girls leaving outstrips recruitment comfortably. As an electronics technician that's served 11 years this is the first time I can remember that I could comfortably earn more as a civilian but the truth is I still enjoy my job, for how much longer I don't know as things are changing rapidly.


17.) 30 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 23:21:26
Hi MK. I enjoyed reading this, but I just couldn't agree at most of it. But MK mate, keep on writing. Love to read your views and articles.


18.) 30 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 23:23:18
People are totally missing my point so there is no point repeating it over and over again.

{Ed0333's Note - i have the same problem with my wife MK. I’ll explain something to her for hours until I’m blue in the face and the next day she’ll do exactly what I asked her not to do.


19.) 30 Mar 2018
29 Mar 2018 23:49:36
Ed0333, I just ran very basic figures to come up with a slightly less finger in the wind guess. The total UK tax revenue for last year was £730billion. The 30.3 million tax payers who apparently earn an average of £22k a year earn about £666billion before tax.

There are roughly 5.4 million public sector workers. If we wanted to pay them all £5million a year (£100k a week like footballers) we need to find £27trillion.

So you are right, I am clearly not an economist. I was way off. We actually need people to somehow pay over 40 times their actual salary in taxes to pay public sector workers a footballers wage.

It is an impossible dream. They may well deserve more than footballers, but they are not worth it financially to their industry . Which is a huge shame for me coming from a military family! Fully aware my figures aren't exactly accurate by the way, but they are close enough to the ball park to prove it is totally impossible to pay public sector workers footballers salaries. 80% taxes isn't nearly enough. It's actually in excess of 30 times the current tax revenue.

Can anybody come up with a solution for this? If not (and you can't because £27trillion isn't going to just show up), Don't say public sector employees are financially worth footballers wages. Even if they are fully deserving of them from a moral perspective.

{Ed0333's Note - it’s ok MK I forgive you for your inaccurate economics just make sure you are spot on next time. Seriously mate no one is saying that other industries should be in line with soccer player salaries just that kicking a piece of leather about shouldn’t be rewarded so outrageously.


20.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 01:08:05
Mk my wife is a nurse we have two young daughters and she works xmas day with no dinner having to feed patients there dinner! Yes there's more money in football and that's why they get paid more but this artical is one of the worst you have wrote to be fair, abuse footballers don't no abuse lad my wife gets punched kicked called names of the very people she is helping, footballers get it when they go on like premadonnas. But most of that artical is simply bull feel free if you want to tell me wife a footballer puts up with more abuse than her?


21.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 02:36:06
The medical industry is worth way way more than football but the money goes to the pharmaceutical industry and not those administrating the drugs. Footballers earn too much but in a weird way they are like the pharmaceutical companies. They produce the magic that the world craves. Everyone else is trying to make money from the magic. Pundits are kind of like doctors, pointing out the problems and interfacing with the public. Does it make sense?

{Ed0333's Note - Now were spouting analogies on this site...whatever next...Extsterstenalism? Come out come out wherever you are Harry..


22.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 04:13:00
I am sorry Adam but you lost me at:

“It is considered acceptable to send death threats to a footballer who plays poorly”.

No it’s not.

Sadly it may becoming more common from knuckle draggers in the social media age but it is certainly not considered acceptable.

As for the money, In my experience the wage thing gets brought up more often as a consequence of a perceived lack of effort on a particular players behalf more than a bad performance. Which from a fans perspective is entirely understandable. You will get angry if you see somebody you believe is not giving 100% and being paid an obscene amount of money to not give a damn when you would do it for free if you had the chance.

I actually agree with you though about wages but I do disagree with the idea it’s a fundamental jealously that undermines any arguement about it.

There are those who think like that but again in my experience they tend to be non football fans to begin with.


23.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 04:38:13
Maybe I shouldn't comment as I haven't read the article. It's ludicrous what they get paid. But, they got a good slice of the massive cake which is football. I don't have a problem with that. If we stopped subscribing to sports channels, buying merchandise, buying sponsor's goods, going to the game etc, the cake would be smaller and they'd get paid accordingly.


24.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 06:40:21
Don't agree. At all. With MK.


25.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 08:00:11
I'm totally with MK on this one! I don't often post or comment but considering I've been in the military for 10 years and have 4 Afghan tours under my belt I feel MK deserves a bit of defending :) . Totally agree that the astronomical figures being paid to footballers these days are nothing short of ridiculous but at the end of the day it's entertainment. It's way for people to completely escape their busy and stressful lives and be absorbed for 90 minutes with this beautiful game called football! More so it's following spreads much further than just the British shores and gives people some sort of excitement in their lives! Coming from South Africa where many are a lot less fortunate than ourselves I've seen the followings and how this game gives almost a sense of motivation and hope. Coming back to the point of military wages vs football wages (I can't talk for doctors and nurses) yes I wish I got a little more for my time in Afghanistan but coming out the dessert and on the few occasions being able to watch my beloved Liverpool play made my week and gave me something to look forward too. Purely for that I'm with MK. The world isn't fair and like mk has said I wish we all got paid well but again this is An entertainment like no other. It's an addiction.
Final note that I forgot to mention. Again I'm no economist and I may be wrong but I did read somewhere that the taxes taxed on football wages in the BPL is the equivalent to what the NHS got in the last budget. I'm just a knuckle-dragging Para so I accept if that is "fake news" lol. Cheers reds!


26.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 08:01:43
I'm totally with MK on this one! I don't often post or comment but considering I've been in the military for 10 years and have 4 Afghan tours under my belt I feel MK deserves a bit of defending :) . Totally agree that the astronomical figures being paid to footballers these days are nothing short of ridiculous but at the end of the day it's entertainment. It's way for people to completely escape their busy and stressful lives and be absorbed for 90 minutes with this beautiful game called football! More so it's following spreads much further than just the British shores and gives people some sort of excitement in their lives! Coming from South Africa where many are a lot less fortunate than ourselves I've seen the followings and how this game gives almost a sense of motivation and hope. Coming back to the point of military wages vs football wages (I can't talk for doctors and nurses) yes I wish I got a little more for my time in Afghanistan but coming out the dessert and on the few occasions being able to watch my beloved Liverpool play made my week and gave me something to look forward too. Purely for that I'm with MK. The world isn't fair and like mk has said I wish we all got paid well but again this is An entertainment like no other. It's an addiction.
Final note that I forgot to mention. Again I'm no economist and I may be wrong but I did read somewhere that the taxes taxed on football wages in the BPL is the equivalent to what the NHS got in the last budget. I'm just a knuckle-dragging Para so I accept if that is "fake news" lol. Cheers reds!


27.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 08:06:13
The players that get to the top undoubtedly make a commitment to a lifestyle that few of us would be satisfied with. But that doesn't make them worthy, they get rewarded with vast amounts of money in a way that's not proportionate to most of society.

Footballers are commodities that get bought and sold and through that context they are worth what they cost, but they are in no way comparable to public sector workers. Nurses dedicate their lives to something far more important than football. Soldiers get asked to put themselves in that way of a bullet in conditions that are unimaginable to purple who haven't been on operations.

I've defended the money in football myself, it's an entertainment industry and just like music or acting the top performers will become very rich but footballers don't have a hard life. They are part of the elite, they have little care in the world and every aspect of their lives is managed for them.

I don't begrudge them their money at all but they are VERY fortunate that their DNA made them good at kicking a ball. They've won the lottery in life and they make people happy, that's a good thing but not an important thing.


28.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 08:10:46
Just read all of the above. Mk am sure you got the point by now so I won’t preach. I normally love your reads so keep them coming just think them throughI bit more before posting 👍🏻.


29.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 08:12:16
Good post Para, I think too many people are very quick jumping on MK's back on this one without actually understanding what he's saying.


30.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 08:49:37
Liverpool had a £364m revenue in 16/ 17 and a £208m wage bill. Clearly, the wages can be financially accounted for even if they are morally wrong.

I think it shows a distinct lack of respect to say "they just kick a ball". Everybody here knows that is not true. Maybe they should all shut down their charities and stop visiting sick kids? Maybe they should stop turning up to training to ensure we get the best performances at the weekend? Maybe they should all refuse to play boxing day? Seeing as none of it is even acknowledged, let alone appreciated, why should they bother?

I will say for the last time, I do not think footballers deserve more money than nurse's or soldiers and I haven't even implied that, let alone said it. All I am saying is footballers do more than just kick a ball, and that their salaries reflect what they are financially worth.

If you still can't grasp that, I'm wasting my time. Thank you to the people who made the effort to understand my points, instead of debating imaginary points I haven't made. And thank you to the people who managed to disagree in a civil manner. I fully respect that.


31.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:00:44
Just wanted to say that Kermit was the only person who made a solid counter argument respectfully. I think that is a great post mate and I agree that more money should filter down to grass roots level. Thank you for disagreeing without being derogatory.

Para-red, my dad served 12 years in the army, and my mum 3 (It's where they met) . Both of their views are pretty much the same as yours. Thank you for making the effort to understand my point.

Cheers Salah mate. I did expect more disagrees than agrees, but I expected a better quality of debate.


32.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:04:28
Footballers wages are obscene

Healthcare workers are obscene

For the exact opposite reasons. I say healthcare workers because it’s not just “doctors and nurses”. What about all the carers who go round and keep people alive and safe in their own home? They are treated like absolute muck by our ungrateful society. All those people who’s job includes looking after old people who have been abandoned by their “too busy” families.
Footballers really don’t know they are born. They are totally sheltered from the reality of life and that’s why most of them struggle to integrate into society when they finish.

If we’re talking about tax hikes, then footballers should be first in line. Tax them 80%, most won’t even notice.
The sad reality is most footballers don’t even pay the tax they should, most have accountants who stealthily avoid paying their fair share.


33.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:19:04
Ron my closest Aunty is a Nurse so I see exactly how much they give. She worked a 12 hour shift on Christmas day once.

I would love to live in a world where we could pay the people who save lives the same amount as the people who just make it more fun.

Unfortunately though, wages are largely reflected by the success of their specific market. Here is the hypocrisy; everyone I know thinks that NHS staff aren't paid enough. Additionally, everyone I Know is adamant the the NHS should stay free, and most are outraged that their prescription medication costs an extra £3 now. Or angry that hospitals charge for parking etc.

Everyone wants them to get paid more, but nobody wants it to come out of their pay check. Yet we Don't think twice about paying £50 for a match ticket or the new shirt. That is why footballers are paid more. Because of us. They Don't deserve it, but our spending habits Don't back up our opinions. It is sad and outrageous. It is also our fault.


34.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:20:32
MK people are being derogatory against your views and they are entitled to be.
No-one has derided you personally.

Your views expose an immaturity and lack of life experience to me. You’re young so perhaps we should allow for context. 20 years time, you’ll probably have changed your mind completely.


35.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:35:51
MK you said they are “worth more” and that they “make sacrifices”.

These are the 2 most inflammatory and down right disgusting statements made in your essay. Change them and your views would be given more respect.

We all know the public sector is underfunded. Guess what, bears defaecate in the woods.
Most of us know the reason is not because the common worker doesn’t pay enough tax. It’s because the corporations like the ones who make popular smart phones and tablets (no names ed) and the ones with the popular search engine don’t pay the tax they should. Similarly footballers don’t pay the tax they should, even the mega wealthy ones in Spain.
It’s the government who allows this to go on but if the common worker mistakenly underpaid tax they’d be threatened with jail.

Tax the mega-wealthy and corporations and that will pay for the public sector. They are after all the beneficiaries of a healthy and educated society.


36.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 09:45:35
I agree with your overall point MK (I know, shocking right) that footballers are paid so much because of the industry.

But as a serving soldier I haven’t been with my family for 5 Christmases and have been up at all hours on duty, along with so many others. So the line you put about imagine having to get up at 5am to eat pasta, I can’t really feel sorry for.

A brave article and like I said I agree with the main point about pay and that it’s the industry that they are in. I’m not saying I should get paid more nor is it possible, just that maybe the examples of feeling sorry for how tough it can be for a footballer weren’t the best.


37.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 10:38:15
Smplfc, I was more angling at the lack of appreciation when I said about them missing Christmas. I Don't want people to feel sorry for millionaires, I just want them to not make ignorant statements like "they just kick a ball". It's insulting when you see how much soneone like Salah does off the pitch.

I know Soldiers and Nurses sacrifice far more to provide a necessary service, and we appreciate it and give thanks. When footballers do it to sn albeit lesser extent to satisfy customer demand, we take it for granted.

All I want is people to stop targeting footballers specifically for being lucky. As someone said, they won life's lottery. They were born with a talent that people are prepared to pay through the nose to see, and they take advantage of their talents to maximise their earning potential. Any one of us would do the same, and they're lying if they deny it.

Case in point, when normal people win the lottery, they Don't give most if the money away and say "I Don't really need that much money". And lottery winners do absolutely nothing for their fortune other than get lucky. There is no hard work involved at all. I simply Don't understand why we hate people for having more money than they necessarily deserve. Especially not when they earn that much because of us.

Ron, they are worth more though! I am talking about it financially. A nurse is worth far more morally and to society, but they won't contribute hugely to profits. A salary is directly reflective of what your company values your contribution to the overall revenue. You are not getting my point. I do not think footballers are worth more in general, to us, or as people, than public sector workers. It is quite frankly a fact though, that they are worth more financially to their bosses. That is why they can demand a higher salary. I Don't understand your issue with this because it is a simple fact of reality.

On the sacrifices part, I would implore you to look into the number of footballers who have committed suicide, died of heart attacks, died in plane crashes flying to games, suffered with severe health problems after retiring etc. At least look at the impacts on them before you completely dismiss the notion that they make sacrifices. Only last year Chapocoense lost over 50 members of staff flying to a game for the entertainment of the masses. There are associated risks to your mental and physical wellbeing with; being under such immense scrutiny, pushing your body to It's limits, heading a football for a living, taking injections to play through pain, being targeted both in and away from the game by disgruntled fans, and travelling thousands of miles every year.

You cannot deny they make sacrifices and that there is more to it than kicking a ball. You simply can't. It is completely factual that they do far more than that and make sacrifices.

If you found those statements inflammatory, it suggests that you are unwilling to accept the truth because your personal feelings are clouding your judgement and ability to analyse things without bias.

Footballers do not make more sacrifice a than anyone else (and certainly not soldiers or nurses), but they do make sacrifices. All professional sportsmen do. Mo Farah spends 9 months a year away from his family to do high altitude training camps. That is a sacrifice. Whether it is for others, or for themselves is irrelevant as I never made that point. I was simply countering the uneducated statement that they "just kick a ball".


38.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 10:44:14
The world has become far too sensitive. I think people are looking far too closely at what MK has said.


39.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 10:45:34
Just to add Ron, I completely agree that more should be done to tackle tax avoidance from the rich and the corporation's. Even if that was done successfully though, there still wouldn't be enough money to pay everyone in the NHS a footballers wage. Without a doubt, more should be done to ensure that they get regular and significant pay rises, but this is going off subject a bit now. It's a slight tangent to the main point that footballers produce more profits and therefore are paid in proportion to the millions they are worth in terms of asset value, performance and image exposure.

This is nothing to do with my life experience. It is purely because of my choice to dissect everything logically, and view things realistically even when it is morally bankrupt.


40.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 11:11:15
Somehow I feel that article should have Katie Hopkins written underneath it.
They don't " give up the best years of their life and their long term health" to make our weekends more interesting. That's absurd. They grew up playing the game they loved, and suddenly they got paid obscene amounts of money for it. I played at a low level and I did it for me, not spectators who most modern players won't give the time of day to.
Absurd. Out of touch.


41.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 11:31:36
“A nurse is worth far more morally and to society, but they won't contribute hugely to profits. ”

Right, here are some logical challenges for you seeing as you like that:
Do you think the health of a nation contributes to the profits of these companies who pay huge salaries? Why do they set up companies in developed countries? Why not have their HQ in Somalia or Syria?
Do you think the majority of these overpaid footballers would have reached their potential if they had grown up in a society with no healthcare, with no law and order, with no education facilities, with war going on in their streets, with no transport infrastructure?

The only reason these over paid entertainment people reach their potential in life is because society gives them that chance and society depends on a functioning public sector.

A persons worth in my world is determined not by their wage but by their deeds and beliefs. I value a £10 an hour career who goes into the homes of the vulnerable and cooks, cleans, provides company than some greedy lazy millionaire footballer who lives in some weird bubble protected from the harshness of life.


42.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 11:33:00
JTRED91 why Don't you go and tell that to Davide Astori, Gary Speed or Cheikh Tiote?


43.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 11:42:13
I think conflating “worth” even within a specific industry and pay, whilst theoretically a logical argument, isn’t really accurate. I work in the NHS and while I find footballers pay absurd, I don’t find it absurd in the context of a multi global, billion pound industry. The fact that it is such a big industry is a different argument and one based on social factors. However, just as a footballer is vital to their industry so are nhs/ teachers/ military personnel etc. The nhs would fall apart without these staff and I don’t necessarily agree they are easier to replace. There’s not that many people (relatively speaking) who want to do these jobs. Working days, nights, weekends, bank holidays, and dealing with the day to day things you see and do. I for one have no interest in clearing houses in Afghanistan, no thank you very much! Even for £100,000 a week I wouldn’t do it.
I would however play footy for Liverpool, or any other team for that matter for £30,000 a year and I’m pretty sure there are a hell of a lot who would. The point being the game would and could still exist without the billion pound tv deals, just as it did in the 1900’s. Yes it would be different but it wouldn’t suddenly cease to exist.
West Brom apparently have no money for wages so are their players really “worth” their money since they obviously aren’t generating enough income to cover them? Same as Portsmouth, Leeds, heck even LFC were losing £1m per week when FSG came in.


44.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 11:47:04
I think it's really ignorant of you to bring MK's age into it Ron, what the hell has that got to do with anything? I usually agree with your posts but that's out of line when you consider MK has more knowledge then the majority of people here even at his age. He has his views and he's entitled to them, just because he's younger doesn't make him wrong. That's got nothing to do with any of this. I think he's brought up a great debate, some just don't have a clue how to have a debate though. I'm not saying you specifically Ron but some on this thread.

I've seen it time and time again MK getting hassle because of his age, it makes me laugh what is all that about? he's by far the best poster on this site, maybe it's jealousy of his knowledge who knows but he gets my respect I'm a lot older and he knows tons more then me.

Respect MK.


45.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 11:52:02
Your not including all the context though.

Is it fair for Liverpool football club to generate 300 millions per year, through sponsorships, champions league, shirt sales (only from official clubs), league finishes, ticket sales, club tours etc etc all on the back of the players and then not pay them accoringly?

200k a week is 8.4 million per year. After tax which over 50k per year is 50%, is 4.2 million
Which is what 0.3% of Liverpool's income?

The same as a movie. Why should Disney generate and keep the billion pounds they'll take for the next avenger movies and the stars, directors, rtf not get there share.

In fact all of these are probably run better than other companies in regards to how much general staff are paid for huge companies generating massive profits. Why shouldn't an apple employee get 20/ 30 pound an hour when the company is sitting on 250 billion cash reserves?


46.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:01:36
His age has a lot to do with his point of view and his life experience as does everyone’s.
Id hope that when you’ve been around a bit you realise the truth that:

the success of the few is built on the back of hard work, sacrifice and hardship of the many.


47.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:09:32
If the football industry ended tomorrow people would shrug their shoulders and move on to something else fairly quickly.

If healthcare, defence, law and order, infrastructure, emergency services and education ended tomorrow it would be a tad more significant to people’s lives.


48.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:17:19
The implied 'sacrifice' that footballers make for our entertainment is a bit cringe. like they are doing it for free. Some good points though.


49.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:22:51
Spot on Joey. I completely agree. As you say, it is only fair that the stars take a fair proportion of the profits made off the back of their talents. How many LFC players even earn that much? A couple maybe.

A player like Karius is probably earning about £60k a week whilst the club makes £6m a week revenue if you divide that £300m across a year. So Karius is paid about 1% of the club's revenue. My companies financial results are probably best not shared, but I get paid around 0.5% of the overall revenue. So proportionally, Karius is being paid a pretty acceptable wage considering he is an employee and the product. Plus his role is far more significant to the success of the business than mine is. The first team squad probably do make up half the wage bill, but that is because they are the most important people at the club. They are the ones who bring home the gravy.


50.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:24:47
Thank you Salah. I Don't think I am the best poster though. Not even nearly. Carragold, PutneyRed and Anonymous Woolback are my favourites. Don't always agree with them, but they seem the most capable of contributing without letting emotions affect their opinions.


51.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:49:12
Like I said Mk I can see your overall point and understand it to a degree, but your examples don’t seem to work well.

The Astori, speed and Tiote one wasn’t brilliant either. What are you trying to prove with that?

People die in all walks of life and in every job. Football is no different, but was it Football that took them?

I’ve lost friends in my line of work who literally are putting other people first.

I’m sorry if I’ve missed the point on that one, I just don’t understand why you’ve used them as examples against JT’s point as if they wouldn’t have given up their best years if they knew football would be the end of them? No one even knows the full explanation as to why Speedo took his life.


52.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 12:49:13
I think we should delete Salah’s posts from this thread because he clearly has a vested interest in players wages.


53.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 13:17:01
I didn't comment earlier because I wanted to steer clear of controversy. But these are the points I wanted to make:

1) Throughout the article there is this sense of placing football players up on a pedestal, as if to justify the salaries they are paid. For me, they are simply professional athletes like any other. I absolutely love since almost 50 years now, but footballers are still only professional atheletes. Just like tennis players, rugby players, basketball players etc etc etc.

2) Since the article talked about the economics of the salary structures, wages for me (for all work - and football players actually work like anybody else) are a function of skill, effort and supply and demand. There are certain skills demanded of them (at the elite levels) . There are certain efforts that are demanded of them. And then there are the economics of supply and demand. Football players get paid what they do because of the demand by millions to watch them perform. Yes, they are performers with certain skills, and that's what they do for us - perform. Nurses, doctors and soldiers also carry out their duties based on their skill set and efforts. But there are far more nurses, doctors and soldiers around than there are professional footballers (at the elite levels) . So you have differences in salaries paid.

Look at the discrepancy between what male and and female footballers are paid. Then look at the discrepancy between what male and female tennis players are being paid - at the elite tournaments, there is complete equality in what is paid, even though female players' matches are much shorter. There is equal demand for male and female tennis players to be watched when playing. There isn't, in the case of female football players vis-a-vis male football players.

3) My real problem with the article is when discussing "value", which implies worth. Or in other words, of what benefit and usage to society. To say that a football player gets the wages he gets because he is valued or worth more than say a nurse, doctor or a soldier is clearly off the rails. Nobody needs a lesson as to what a nurse's, doctor's or a soldier's value or worth to society is. A footballer is just an entertainer/ performer, at the end of the day.
But it's the supply and demand factor and the large circus that revolves around the sport of football (with the teams, the media, the sponsorships, the public popularity etc etc) that causes the large discrepancy in salaries between these 4 jobs. Financial remuneration is not always (sadly) related entirely to value or worth.


54.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 13:53:01
Personally, i would get up two hours earlier and force feed twice as much pasta and visit ten times more childrens hospitals for a tenth of what the average footballer gets paid.


55.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 13:58:13
Smplfc, used them because Tiote and Astori died from heart conditions. Whilst we can never be sure, there is a good chance that the pressures they put on their bodies didn't help.

On Gary Speed, I've used him as an example because he was clearly mentally affected by something in his life and he is proof that football players/ managers are not automatically happy just because they earn a lot of money. No doubt the pressures of his job were a contributing factor to his depression, but we'll never know the primary cause.

My point is, footballers die in unexplainable ways at times. Whikst those examples can't be 100% blamed on there involvement with the sport, the Munich disaster and Chapocoense plane crash, are both clearly situations people who died wouldn't have been in if they hadn't been footballers. The miles they clock up increases there chances significantly of being involved in a transport accident. That is why insurance companies ask you how many miles you drive a year. More travelling means more accidents.

I shouldn't really need to justify that footballers make sacrifices. If they didn't every kid with talent would make it. Unfortunately, some are not willing to make the required sacrifices to make it at the top.

Ra, I think the only real difference in your opinion and my opinion is how we define "worth". You clearly see it as a broader term, whereas I am using it here as a term purely to describe financial value to an individual's business or industry. Otherwise, I agree with everything you said except that I am putting footballers on a pedestal.

I think the context has been lost hugely here. I did not send this in as an article. I sent it in as a reply to a thread which was slagging off all footballers and using Tevez as the evidence. This article, was originally intended as a defence of footballers overall. I was pointing out all the sacrifices they made to counter all the negative points others raised. Had I written this as a stand alone article, I would have given a more balanced view from both sides. I am fully aware that footballers can still be selfish and greedy. Others made that point on the original thread though, so I glfelt no need to repeat what they said. The fact that this was converted into a stand alone piece, has gone against me. People can't see the context it was posted in. It was a passionate defence, rather than my whole opinion on the subject.


56.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 14:13:37
So would I RedLorry but that was Not my point. This article was in direct response to people saying footballers just kick a ball and get paid more than they are worth.

People have taken this all wrong. You've taken this as if I think footballers are hard done by, and as if I think they a more important than soldiers or nurses.

I've not said either of those things.


57.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 14:58:25
MK, I enjoy your posts and articles mate. I absolutely enjoy Liverpool FC, it’s a huge part of my life, I enjoy great moves, musicians and the theatre and the NHS keeps me healthy, the military, policy and fire services keep me safe. I need all these things to live a fulfilled and secure life with my family and friends and I couldn’t care less about keynesian economics and supply and demand being the facts of life, I have to tolerate and accept that is the case, though I do not like it.

The world is unfair, society contains a multitude of human flaws, theft, abuse, violence, corruption and deceit. I find it odd that some politicians lie, steal, cheat and abuse their powers for self gain on a daily basis, that countries wage war and assassinate human beings, yet a bloke can be castigated for throwing himself on the floor in the penalty area to win a penalty or be outcast by a nation for cheating at cricket with some sand paper altering the state of the ball because they are paid huge sums of money to entertain and play fair?

Well world leaders and politicians are very well paid to "play fair" and yet many do not, the heroes in society protect and serve us, take care of us in ill health and old age and when they let us down people die. Sport is my great passion in life and teachers the young life skills and values but Shanks was very flippant, it’s not more important than life and death or family. nothing is more precious or rewarding, money is a necessary evil that I have no respect for, it merely breeds selfishness and exposes the corruption of human weakness.


58.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:01:48
Mk nice read, has created a good conversation. I am surprised people have given you as much heat as you got.
I am no genius but understand your point I find it weird people have taken it way out of context.


59.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:13:59
So MK, if a footballer couldn’t kick a ball do you think they would have any value?

Essentially they kick a ball, if they didn’t they would not be being paid anything.


60.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:17:05
Thanks negativeredwalter. I appreciate that mate. I suppose it's kept a good few people entertained for nearly 24 hours!

Good post Koppite68. Lots of good points.


61.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:27:33
My O my, what a week it has been on these pages. First the discussion on the "standing" issue and now this. LOL.


62.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:31:23
MK - in reply to your last 2 posts. Okay, that explains it far better. When reading the article I couldn't figure out what the context was or what the purpose of the article was. It came out as a "Life according to MKS" type of essay. Undoubtedly, the reason why you've gotten such a mix of replies. Lesson for your next article 😉.


63.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:20:24
They are paid too much but out of all the money in the game, and all the people that could take that dosh, I would rather it was the people that actually entertain us that earn it than anybody else.

When you start comparing any sort of entertainment industry with real world care givers and life savers you're on a hiding to nothing there. By all means compare Tom Cruise's salary per really terrible film (he's got the arrogance of C. Ronaldo and all the skills of Eric Djemba Djemba), or Lewis Hamilton's (reported) salary for the most elitist, out of touch sport comprehensible (try driving an F1 car down your local park with jumpers for chevrons), but not the nurses man. A lot of people get p*ssed that way.

Funny article, MK. Seems like you got a bee in your bonnet for some reason, I'd love to know where that came from all of a sudden?


64.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:21:41
This is not my cup of tea 😁😁😁 ha ha! Waro would be a good shout in case you need any help on finances!


65.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:23:06
MK you've put your neck on the line with this post and gotten it horribly wrong mate, but we all make mistakes. I heard an agent a while back saying how stressful his job is at times and people don't realise the pressure they're under to get there clients the best deal, horrendously shocking statement and unfortunately this post isn't far off that.

Footballers lead one of the most privileged lives in existence, did you know MK that they don't organise anything in there private lives from sorting out gas and electricity right down to booking dental appointments and everything in between, the club sort everything out for them so they solely concentrate on football.

Now when it comes to nurses pay I'm pretty sure nobody is saying they should be paid 200k a week, that's ridiculous, the point is players shouldn't be paid the vastly inordinate sums they are.

You seem to be using isolated incidents of certain players to genarlise it as an occupational hazard for a footballer, death threats I'm assuming are related to lovren? This isn't the norm in a footballers life and in any case is just some low life in his mum and dad's basement typing nonsense and is easily ignored by closing your twitter account.

Your generalisation also that footballers will suffer health issues later in life due to things like arthritis depression and alzheimers disease just for our entertainment are patiently false as modern day footballers are given so much protection now were football is fast becoming a non contact sport, they have the best health care and advice in the world and when they finish playing I'd say its quite the reverse of your point, they'll live a far more healthy existence into there twilight years than any of us ever will, and you also have to remember that these people will retire in there mid to late 30's were as nurses just like the rest of us will have to work long into our 60's and beyond.

I worked Christmas day for 6 straight years when my eldest son was 7 years old and onwards (not being able to see him open his presents and have my dinner with him, ) in a job I was in in the early 00's on a twelve hour shift and it was a physically intensive job putting massive strain on my back and joints, did anyone feel sorry for me? Of course not and why should they, the company I worked for (Huber) were a blue chip multi billion pound company in a multi billion pound industry making massive profits off the back of people like myself, is that not the same as your footballers making millions for clubs on the back of there "hard work and talent".

Were all entitled to an opinion MK so no problem there, but the one thing you are correct about is us having the choice not to spend our money on this industry, people don't realise the power they posses, and its with there feet. Go to the ground but don't go in say starting with one or two games a season and you watch ticket prices come down, clubs are terrified that the common supporters will one day finally switch on and protest ticket prices replica kit prices etc etc which is why they throw us a bone now and again with subsidised travel to away games for instance.

As I've said MK you've gotten this one wrong, it takes a man to realise when you've made a mistake and I'm sure with your post you will when you've sat down and weighed it up. Don't let this reaction put you off though.


66.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:33:55
Ron, now we're talking. This is the kind of debate I wanted!

You make a very good point regarding healthcare workers contributing to the overall economy. They are critical across multiple industries because as you say, they keep the workforce fit and healthy. As you say as well, soldiers and police are crucial to maintaining law and order which provides the right kind of society for people to thrive in.

However, those things are all true, but cannot be quantified (at least not easily) financially. In a perfect world, the cash rich industries like entertainment, Pharmaceutical, technology, online retail, social media etc should recognise that the public sector who provide us with a society we can thrive in, are important financially to them. But because it cannot be measured easily, they turn a blind eye and go to extreme measures in some instances to avoid paying taxes that would improve society further. It is absolutely disgusting to be honest and I agree with you entirely that healthcare workers are under appreciated and under valued by society. There will never be a justification to pay them what footballers earn because their simply isn't enough money in the economy. Assuming all 92 football league sides have a 25 man senior squad, there are 2300 senior pro-footballers compared to 5.4million public sector workers. So it is impractical to suggest they all get paid a footballers wage, but absolutely spot on to suggest they are underpaid.

Whilst the money simply isn't there to pay them a footballers wage, if the top earners and corporations paid their taxes, everybody in both the public and private sector could probably be afforded a tax cut which would feel like a pay rise in real terms. Convincing these top earners with their private healthcare and security that a good society is beneficial to them in the long run, is much harder to do though.

Very good point though. My personal proposal that would serve as a partial solution would be A) that tax avoidance is made a criminal offence (hard to get that through the house of commons/ lords though when they are all doing it) and B) that Footballers pay a 20% charity tax on all earnings over £1m. That money could be used to support grass roots football, financially back important healthcare charities that relieve pressure on the NHS, subsidise ticket prices for pensioners and children, support veteran charities, and aid local police forces and fire brigades etc.

In essence, you are correct though. Healthcare workers are vital to the daily functioning of the work force, and therefore the economy. That financial boost is not fed back to the NHS though. Corruption sees it filtered into the pockets of the wealthy. A very good point, and an issue we should be focusing on more than the base salary of footballers.


67.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 15:45:01
I'm always at the heart of it Ra1969 😂 Ed001 must love me. The amount of views the pages get for people to argue with me is insane.

Ron that is taking away the root of their success though and is a ridiculous argument. Would a doctor have any value if I took away his academic intelligence? Without their football talent, they wouldn't have enough money and public influence to positively impact society such as how Drogba, Salah, Carragher, Essien, Milner, Bellamy etc have with their charity work.

You can't just take something out of the equation so it suits your argument though. Maybe if they hadn't been able to kick a ball, some of them would have gone on to be soldiers or healthcare workers? If I took away your lungs you'd be pretty useless within 60 seconds. That is irrelevant in discussion though because of the fact you have lungs!

{Ed001's Note - or it could make my life harder having to sort out the arguments.... :-P


68.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 16:00:58
MK you make a fair point, footballers do more for their money than just what we see on a Saturday and no one would turn down that sort of money. Unfortunately you cloud that point by making some fairly ridiculous statements, yes footballers suffer from mental health and physical issues, but so do regular people, yes footballers make sacrifices, but so do regular people. The statement about death threats being acceptable towards footballers is blatantly untrue and the comparison of footballers with pop and film stars is flimsy. I don’t think anyone thinks nurses or soldiers should make £200k per week, but neither should footballers. Footballers are fortunate to work in an industry that pays those at the top extremely well but that doesn’t mean they should be immune from criticism.


69.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 17:07:50
MK - Dude, if you're actively looking for open controversy (we call it "constructive discussion" on these pages, LOL 😉) then all I have to say is that you've hit a football with your head, a few too many times. Chillout, lie back and enjoy the weather (cloudy, greyish, rainy, in your case, I assume) . Over time you'll see that it's better to deal with all the sh*t that comes to you instead of going looking for it. Even Ed001 will agree with me on this. 😉.


70.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 17:39:19
Welcome MK, life is topsy turvey at times, I do like a lot of Shanks quotes and thoughts on life, here are a few of my favourites

The socialism I believe in isn't really politics. It is a way of living. It is humanity. I believe the only way to live and to be truly successful is by collective effort, with everyone working for each other, everyone helping each other, and everyone having a share of the rewards at the end of the day. That might be asking a lot, but it's the way I see football and the way I see life.

Train the right way. Help each other. It's a form of socialism without the politics.
If a man…. who’s playing in front of the public, is being well paid, and he doesn’t dedicate himself to the job, I’d be hard on him. If I could I would put him in jail, out of the road of society. Because he’s a menace

Pressure is working down the pit. Pressure is having no work at all. Pressure is trying to escape relegation on 50 shillings a week. Pressure is not the European Cup or the Championship or the Cup Final. That's the reward

Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple

Above all, I would like to be remembered as a man who was selfless, who strove and worried so that others could share the glory, and who built up a family of people who could hold their heads up high and say 'We're Liverpool

I’m just one of the people who stands on the Kop. They think the same as I do, and I think the same as they do. It’s a kind of marriage of people who like each other

I've had many skilful men and the likes of Peter Thompson, Ian St John, Kevin Keegan and Steve Heighway were the ones who caught the eye. But the best professional of the lot was Gerry Byrne. He wasn't flashy and he wouldn't score you goals. But he was hard and skilful and gave you everything he had. More than that he was totally honest. Which is the greatest quality of all. He was a true Liverpudlian who couldn't look his fellow Scousers in the face after a game unless he'd given everything he had for 90 minutes

Of course I didn't take my wife to see Rochdale as an anniversary present. It was her birthday and would I have got married during the football season? Anyway, it was Rochdale reserves

My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Had Napoleon had that idea he would have conquered the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in.

I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d brWell the Kop’s exclusive. The Spion Kop at Liverpool is an institution. And if you are a member of the Kop you feel as if you are a member of a big society where you’ve got thousands of friends all roundabout you. And they’re united and loyaleak my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her

One day in 1959, when Huddersfield were playing Cardiff City, Tom (T. V. ) Williams, who was then chairman of Liverpool, and Harry Latham, a director, came down the slope at Leeds Road to see me.
Mr Williams said, 'How would you like to manage the best club in the country? '
'Why, is Matt Busby packing it up? ' I asked.

It's the greatest thing in the world, natural enthusiasm. You are nothing without it.

The last two are my personal favourites as back then rivalry was not violent or jealousy but just competition and mutual respect.

The last one speaks for itself, hope you enjoyed the read fellow disciples of the great man ⚽️ 😊.


71.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 17:40:23
The best part of this epic thread was Harry popping in for a sentence.


72.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 18:34:45
Hi Walter, these two got cross threaded!

I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.

Well the Kop’s exclusive. The Spion Kop at Liverpool is an institution. And if you are a member of the Kop you feel as if you are a member of a big society where you’ve got thousands of friends all roundabout you. And they’re united and loyal.


73.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 18:51:41
One of the worst articles I’ve ever read. I don’t even know where to begin with it so I won’t even bother to comment and makes things worse on this thread.

Take the zero MK and do the honourable thing. I don’t expect Hari Kari but a self imposed exile from posting such rubbish must be on the cards.

You are though entitled to your opinion.


74.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 23:13:44
Thanks for the kind response MK, I will be honest and say that I didn't fully get what you where trying to say from your OP, but having read it over and over and mulling it over for 24 hours and seeing your response to other people your probably right . I think you messed up a bit by including certain things but credit to you for putting your opinion out there .


75.) 30 Mar 2018
30 Mar 2018 23:35:48
Just wanted to say mk I always enjoys your posts and articles. I understand some people's confusion and frustration over this article, as you've touched on subjects that will always cause divided opinions.

Everyone has, and is entitled to, a different opinion, but I do believe that if this article was written by Ed01 or another poster, then there may not have been as much criticism.
There are some members on here that I really enjoy their posts, Adam you being one of them.

I have been following this site for for years but this is my first post, just felt the urge to say keep the articles coming (not that words on a computer would stop you) . Have not always agreed with things you have said but love your contribution to the site.


76.) 31 Mar 2018
31 Mar 2018 01:04:58
First time poster.

So the main point you make seems to be that footballers do more than what we see for 90mins/ 180mins a week on the pitch and are worth more relatively to their business than other jobs are to theirs.

I can't argue with that at all. Where I felt the need to register and post however was the comments made in some of the followup responses and some little things in the main article which came across as warped or exaggerated for the sake of defending a point.

From the top, the idea that footballers deal with huge "intense pressure". Yup, to an extent they do. Nothing out of the ordinary though as plenty of other people do. Give me a choice between dealing with the pressure of knocking in a penalty in a cup final or dealing with the pressure of brain surgery knowing that the tiniest slip would ruin someone's life and it's an easy choice. Paramedics. Doctors. Nurses. Firemen. Police. Military. Air traffic control (really under appreciated job there) . The list of people who deal with life or death situations is far too long to write down so I'll stop there. I even remember Pearce, Waddle and Southgate getting paid a fair slice (pun intended) from a Pizza Hut advert making jest of their "intense pressure" penalty misses. Forgive me if I have very little sympathy for footballers' life of "intense pressure".

The "sacrifices" aren't any more or less than thousands of other athletes. Ask any top athlete why they sacrificed all they have and I guarantee 99% won't say it was to provide entertainment for others or even to provide for their families. They did it because they wanted to be the best and to do what they love. "Popping to the local children's hospital to fulfil your other obligations" It's part of their job and the club's PR work, at the expense of other task/ training exercise and they're paid very handsomely for it.

Still on sacrifices, let's look at being home just in time for dinner with the kids. Again, thousands of people daily have the same woes, many people work two jobs! It's part of life except most people who have that problem earn only just enough to keep the roof above their children and provide the food that ends up on the plate. So nevermind footballers' "Will I be back home by 7 or 8 for tea with the kids? " for many it's, "Will I have enough money to even keep on top of the bills this week? "

Tweeted death threats? Delete twitter. Police and politicians get it in the neck far more than footballers ever will. You don't have to be in the media spotlight to be a footballer. Many enjoy it and the benefits it brings. Doesn't make it right to receive death threats, but they're few and far between and mostly by drunk numpties who need hounding out the game anyway. You can't say it's one of the hard parts about being a player though.

"to have depression by 25, dodgy joints by 35 and Alzheimer's by 55" was a weird thing to mention considering 1/ 4 UK people are estimated to receive a mental health problem annually, physical health issues are common for everyone with age and alzheimers is still being researched. You also mentioned three players by name who died partly due to football. That seems like nothing more than hyperbole. People die for countless unrecognised or undiagnosed health issues every day. Only difference was that those three were well known. Astori could well have ended up working on a farm and died from the strains of heavy lifting every day. We'll never know! Can't just claim that football is a risky business to enter and we should sympathise with players because of it.

Last point I wanted to make was the perceived charity or giving back to the people, although I'm sure you'll agree with me on this one. I've mentioned the hospital visits already. Footballers are in a damn good position to give back. They should give back. They are absolutely nothing without their fans and footballing community behind them and it should be enforced that players/ clubs give a certain percentage of earnings to local communities, not just because they want to make a charity donation. The kids who worship the ground they walk on are the same kids who wear the same school uniform 5 days a week because their parents can't afford to buy a second one. They're the same families who can't afford bills for heating at times. The same families who sometimes can't afford critical health care or treatment. Credit to those who do help out, but when you're earning so much off the back of some of the most deprived and poorest of people in the country, there should be far much done voluntarily (and I would argue compulsory) by everyone in the football community to give back.

I'll stop there though because I could write all day about this stuff. Whilst your original point was straightforward and correct enough, it's almost like you tried to justify it in the most extreme ways and through daft comparisons. Yes, footballers are paid obscene amounts, we all know it! But it doesn't need justifying beyond a simple statement of, 'because there's so much money in the game'. The money involved makes me sick. It also sickens me when I see nurses saving lives but resorting to food banks to feed their kids. Our society needs looking at seriously. Footballers and clubs should morally and contractually be obliged to give back far more than they currently do. They don't deserve or need justification for their earnings, they deserve questioning for why they don't do more for others.


77.) 31 Mar 2018
31 Mar 2018 04:39:41
In the original post the only thing I really agree with is that 'footballers are worth what they are paid' - this is undeniably true because it is how capitalism and money works. This is not about a moral measure, or a measure of self worth, this is purely statistical. Football generates a lot of money, the best players generate a lot of money ergo they are worth a lot of money. This is an economic equation and is true in most forms of life (irrespective of fairness or morality or anything else - I'm not saying I like this system, I'm simply observing that this is the economic system in which we are a part) .

What I cannot agree with is the assertion that footballers lives are difficult. That they have a job tougher than most. I'm sorry but it does not equate - they live a life, in comparison to an average joe, of absolute unadulterated luxury. Personal chefs, flash cars, designer labels, beautiful women, the list goes on and on - these players have hit the lottery due to having well coordinated feet. It is outrageous to say that there job is difficult, or that they are somehow comparable to public servants such as doctors, nurses, soldiers, etc (bare in mind there as been a public sector wage freeze for 7 years+ under the Tories whilst inflation has continued to rise - the people of most value to our society have effectively had a wage cut) .

I haven't heard anybody argue for nurses to be paid the equivalent of footballers; what I have heard are calls to make salaries fairer and a better reflection of an individuals contribution to society. You need to put football players, and there contribution to our society, into some sort of perspective. Sure they do charity work (big deal), sure they have external pressure from fans (plenty of jobs have pressure - do you think being a nurse is a breeze? ), sure they have to wake up early and kick a ball in cold weather, but these are minimal negatives in what is a pretty exceptional quality of life - ask anyone on here is they'd swap there current profession for that of a footballer and 9/ 10 would bite your arm off for the chance. Now ask how many people would swap their job for that of a soldier, or a nurse, or a teacher? I'll be you the numbers taking that offer up will be much, much less.

I respect your opinions Adam but I cannot respect your strange call for sympathy/ respect for footballers who are paid extortionate amounts and who enjoy a life of supreme luxury. They are lucky, plain and simple, to be in the position they are - rather than compassion and understanding from fans of their (very limited) plight there should be, from footballers, the stark realisation that what they do is a privilege and a luxury, that almost anybody would give anything to be in their position, and that small gestures - like signing an autograph, like stopping to talk to a fan - can make somebodies day, as somebody who is working a lot longer and harder than them for a much, much smaller salary. Too many players believe in their greatness, their own hype, like they have somehow earned these insane salaries they are paid - they need to connect with fans and realise how fortunate they are, and do their part giving back to the community and society in general. If I was a footballer that's what I would do - you wouldn't need to write mandatory community/ charity work into my contract, I'd be doing it in my copious amounts of free time, rather than sitting in my penthouse playing PS4.

Your post has clearly sparked a big debate Adam, which is great, but few are going to see this issue from your very myopic perspective.