23 Dec 2017 21:17:24
With the recent Migs mess in mind- how come we never seem to produce or buy a keeper who goes about his business cool calm and collected?

Some will say Reina did well for us, but he was quite prone to errors, especially on crosses. Dudek was brilliant in Istanbul, but other than that not so much. Westerveld- nah. Calamity James? Grobs? Have to go back to Clemence to find someone truly reliable, and he played for the club 36 years ago .

Is it "club DNA" whatever that is? Neglect? Anyone have a theory?


1.) 23 Dec 2017
23 Dec 2017 21:38:07
Thing is that Grobs had genuine moments of brilliance. With moments of comedy keeping, but played behind two of the best centre backs the club has ever had.


2.) 23 Dec 2017
23 Dec 2017 21:53:35
I'd disagree that Reina was prone to errors. At least whilst Rafa was the manager and he actually wanted to be here.

For some reason he seem to have one stinker a season (eg. '06 FA Cup Final, CL Quarter Final against Arsenal a couple of years later), but was generally very reliable for the other 40+ games he'd play. He wasn't the most agile keeper I've ever seen, tbf, but the rest of his game compensated for it.

Honestly, I think it could be partly coaching. Westerveld declined under Joe Corrigan's coaching, and people sometimes forget that Dudek was amazing in his first season here, but quickly became a jittery mess thereafter. And Achterberg, who's here now, doesn't seem to have improved Migs a jot.

In between those two we had first Paco Herrera and then Xavi Valero, a very well regarded goalkeeping coach, and our goalkeeping situation was fine.


3.) 23 Dec 2017
23 Dec 2017 22:01:58
I would say Reina was a fantastic keeper for us and probably the best keeper we’ve had in my generation (i’m) 30. Every goalkeeper makes mistakes but some are highlighted more than others. Reina was a leader too which I think we’re really missing at the moment. There was a lot of talk that our goalkeeping coach is incompetent hence our difficulties.


4.) 23 Dec 2017
23 Dec 2017 22:06:29
As for Brucie, he came in off the back of a 20 year spell where we only had two first choice goalies, so we were used to showing loyalty. Plus he at least offset his howlers by being one of the best shotstoppers around at his peak. Something you can't really say for poor old Simon.

Jamo was just not mentally up to it at the time and both Souness and Evans tried to replace him.


5.) 23 Dec 2017
23 Dec 2017 22:50:22
And in my first post I should've said Jose Ochotorena instead of Paco Herrera, btw.


6.) 23 Dec 2017
23 Dec 2017 23:18:27
Rubbish goalkeeper coaches is the answer to the question.


7.) 24 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 00:39:55
Which is why we haven't won the league in 30 years or whatever.
been saying it since I was a kid.


8.) 24 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 01:53:55
Sure Reina was a great keeper in a Liverpool context, but not really a week in, week out kind of guy. Look at what the others had at the time. Pepe was alright but the best gk in 35 years for a club with ambition? Grobs was good too, worth watching but honestly never a top keeper.

Bad coaching is surely part of the answer. But how come 3 decades of managers has managed to get that particular recruitment wrong?

{Ed0333's Note - Grobs not a top keeper? Are you sure mate? Do you think Paisley would dabble with mediocre?


9.) 24 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 02:32:32
If all these goalkeepers were not up to scratch and none of these keepers were not reliable as Andy is suggesting then i would be questioning our scouting system long before i would be looking at our goalkeeper coaches.

Not that i don't think Reina or Brucie were reliable mind.


10.) 24 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 09:11:26
As brilliant as Grobs were he was never one of the top 5 in the world at his prime. And never the consistent type. Wasn't that old at the time, but Clemence in contrast always seemed to do what was expected of him and often more.

No disrespect to Bruce, loved him as a showman and as a player. But he was never the steadying influence at the back. In fairness he didn't have to, with the defenders we had at that time. But just imagine him behind our CDs of today. Lovren would be on Xanax every match day.

Of our keepers Ward seems to have the most Steady-Eddie aura. But maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. Maybe put the future Couts-cash towards Oblak? The most reliable keeper close to absolute worldclass and not totally impossible to get.

{Ed002's Note - There is interest in Oblak from elsewhere, but not from Liverpool.}


11.) 24 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 09:48:36
Excuse me, Andy but this "Ward is the best option" stuff has NO basis in fact nor reality and people may have that opinion, BUT it is factually unfounded. Allow me to explain. Like it or not, the Championship is NOT the EPL, fact. Therefore, no one knows what Ward would bring to the team in the PL/ CL as he has NEVER played consistently in the PL and is yet to start a CL game. Does that mean say Karius (as Migs is a non issue here) is better than Ward overall cos he's played these games? No. It also does not mean that Ward is better than Karius as Ward is not as experienced as he is now (the Bundesliga is not the Championship) and has played more PL games than Ward has. Ward has played 4 times for Klopp since he arrived and sorry, that is NOT enough to judge him as superior to Karius. It simply does not so again, that cannot be true.

What I'm trying to say is that Ward is not the best cos you nor I want him to be. He will need to have proven that at this level over time and that has not happened yet and Klopp is to blame for that as he should have sent him out on loan in the PL so he could prove that. So for me, Karius is the one that needs to come in now as he has earned it with his solid perfs. in the PL and CL. I can't even rate Ward cos he does not even play and one game in the EFL is NOT a yardstick to rate any GK.


12.) 24 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 09:40:13
Grobs was a great keeper and Reina was also very good.
13 major trophies in 13 seasons for Grobs and a record of consecutive appearances. I think that speaks for itself.

{Ed025's Note - he was a good keeper ron...not ray clemence good mind..


13.) 25 Dec 2017
24 Dec 2017 23:42:31
Gk coaching has got to be at least something to do with it. Its been going on a long time. Equally defensive mistakes gave been going on a long time especially set pieces. When managers and senior staff get sacked oither coaches carry on. Problems?