25 Sep 2017 20:45:59
Question for any or all of the eds or other posters. Curious what people think of Liverpool/ Klopp's defensive frailty. I have heard various theories, poor goalkeeper, need new centre backs, lack of a true defensive mid, philosophy is too attacking etc.

I looked up Klopp's record at Dortmund and Liverpool. In terms of goals against at Dortmund his teams ranked 2nd best his first year, 9th his 2nd and from then on 1st (won Bundesliga), 3rd (won Bundesliga again), 4th, 2nd and fell to 7th his final year.

at Liverpool their record defensively is 9th best first year (couldn't break out just his games so it's a Rodgers/ Klopp combo), then 5th best last year and 16th this year albeit a short sample so far.

His drop to 7th, after a very strong defensive record in his last Dortmund year and his liverpool record so far might mean ed002 is correct I think I remember the quote Klopp was "figured out" (hoping not to put words in ed002's mouth) or something to that effect.

Or is he still the guy with a pretty good defensive record at dortmund and he just needs to keep building the team.

Just curious what people think.

1.) 25 Sep 2017
25 Sep 2017 21:09:46
I think you've got far too much time on your hands.

2.) 25 Sep 2017
25 Sep 2017 21:15:37
He is a very good manager who took us to 2 cup finals in his first season and achieved champions league qualification in his second season. Obviously the defence still needs some work but we will get there. Clearly some people think that 2 years is enough time for Klopp to turn a club that hasn't won the league in 26 years and finished in the top 4 twice in 7 years into world beaters.

3.) 25 Sep 2017
25 Sep 2017 21:23:42
Redal,

you would be correct, but hey got to fill the day somehow.

4.) 26 Sep 2017
26 Sep 2017 01:26:54
I think klopp will get us there. We have steadily improved under him but it will be very difficult to improve on last seasons 4th place finish this year. Our rivals look very strong and have strengthened their teams well in the summer. Teams like spurs and arsenal will always be a threat and have a chance of ucl qualification. Chelsea have a strong squad.

I think if we had of gotten VVD and keita this summer we would have a much stronger chance. It's going to be hard and if you offered me fourth now it would be very hard to turn down. There are promising signs though. Palace watford Burnley and Leicester are all games we could have lost last year and I thought we showed brilliant character on Saturday to hold on. Although what Shakespeare was doing subbing the two players who can create something for vardy and co to get on the end of, I don't know.

I like the way klopp has mixed it up this season where we are not playing the high press constantly. Some games we have sat back and still won well. We are a bigger threat with cout's playing and I'm looking forward to the return of Mane, lallana and even Clyne. Especially lallana. I think he could be our most underrated player atm. Amazing when he is on form. Another win tomorrow will do wonders for the boys confidence. Mane to score for me and perhaps a first goal for AOC.

5.) 26 Sep 2017
26 Sep 2017 01:31:40
I think he's struggling to sort the defence out, but he is also capable of adapting (e. g. towards the end of last season where we were decent) so give him time. In the PL you face all sorts and he is still learning.

My own view on the defence is it's partly personnel but partly system too. In some games the high press is working, but it tends to be against the better sides IMO where possession is more evenly distributed and they play less long balls. His major problem tends to come when we have lots of possession, we have pushed both fullbacks forward in attack, and the midfield steps up to press in middle of the pitch, leaving the CBs exposed if the opposition can play between the lines.

Mix that with CBs that struggle with pace and a weak GK who doesn't like to sweep and we look exposed way too often. At Dortmund by contrast he played with a true CDM who can provide the cover whereas Hendo likes to step up into tackles, and Can is still learning the position (and can switch off and not track runners) . Oh and of course on set pieces where we are just poor.

I would personally like to see him play more of a deep 2 man midfield and a 4-2-3-1, I think Can and Hendo can play double pivot and sit slightly deeper to dictate play going forward and provide defensive cover when we lose possession, allowing the FBs to create push forward to create width, with Mane and Salah as the inverted wingers, Coutinho at no.10 and a CF.

Alternative is to play 4-3-3 but tell our FBs their key responsibility is defence and to sit a bit deeper, and play Can in a true DM role like he seemed to do in the first half against Leicester. That would also Hendo and Coutinho to run the middle of the park further forward and release the front three.

Either way would work IMO but the other thing we absolutely need to fix is set pieces where we don't seem to be brave enough or organized enough in defence. We need to harden up quick and clear the ball first time, we are bullied far too often.

6.) 26 Sep 2017
25 Sep 2017 22:40:58
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the acquisition of Hummels a big factor in that? Perhaps VVD could've been our Hummels.
A lot has been made of our defensive frailties of late but I do believe if he's given time Klopp will get it right. He's shown in his short time with us that he won't waste money on players that don't fit. If the right type of player isn't available he will make do with what he has until the right player is available. It's frustrating but I think it will stand us in good stead in the long run.
He's taken chances on the likes of Klavan and Karius but each cost less than £5mil. The pacey, ball playing, strong, leader, organiser type defender we need will cost a hell of a lot more so he needs to get it right and those players are few and far between at the moment.
We don't want stop gaps we've had that for years. Klopp should be applauded for having the patience and ambition to aim for the best players he can. Yes he's gone about it the wrong way and overstepped the mark but it's in the interest of getting the very best players to our club. I for one can forgive him for that.

7.) 26 Sep 2017
26 Sep 2017 13:00:54
Think Ed02 stated just the other day Hummels was already they're brought in by zorc for Thomas doll who was the manager at the time, I personally think klopps struggling with the defensive side of how he likes this team to play simply due to the extremely faster pace of premier league football but there is also some basic decision making errors by the players as well which is exacerbating the situation just my 2p's worth but it does make it an exciting team to watch, what was it involved in 34 goals last ten games lol, looking forward to tonight's game.