19 Sep 2017 12:19:59
Afternoon all.
I have a question for the ed's and anyone else who would like to give their thoughts. When I first started to follow football in the early 2000's there seemed to be an abundance of top quality strikers all across Europe. That number seems to have diminished and 20 goal a year forwards seem to have become rarer (although players hitting extremely high numbers seems to have increased) . Do you think this is down to change in style? Players being asked to contribute to more phases of the game? Poor coaching and development? Or am I just looking back with too much nostalgia to that era.
Thanks for all the hard work you put into the site.

{Ed001's Note - I would suggest a mix of all of those factors. If you look at it without nostalgia and with the benefit of more viewing of the players, you would probably find there was not as many top quality strikers as you thought. However, I do think the changes in football generally have moved the game away from pure goal poachers at the top clubs. Look at Pep's insistence that his strikers do more than a Lineker goal hanging job. People just made space for goalscorers in the past, now they are asked to change or end up at smaller clubs who will make allowances to build around them.}

1.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 12:45:25
It's turning into a team of 10 interchangeable midfielders.

2.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 12:50:11
I've only really been a close follower of football since 2005 and even in that short space of time football has changed massively.

We have gone from a Cisse/ Torres type striker who wants to run in behind every time or have it put in the box, to Salah, Firmino and Mane who make and create their own chances, dovetailing and alternating positions throughout the game.

United when i first started watching had strikers like Solsjkaer, Van Nistelrooy and Saha. Proper poachers. Then we saw the development of Rooney as the United striking role became more independent and versatile. Now United ask their striker to run in behind, attack crosses, get involved the build up play and run the channels.

Arsenal had Henry and Bergkamp and to be honest i think Wenger was a bit of a visionary at that time because they are much more similar to modern strikers at top end clubs in that they created their own chances and Henry was comfortable pulling out wide to find spaces. That is probably why they were so successful though. They were years ahead of their time and British trained defenders hadn't seen players like that before.

The game is constantly evolving though and strikers are being asked to do more and more. That is how it should be though. Why should they get a free pass to goal hang and then take all the headlines? 11 players working hard for each other s better than 10 players and a man stood in the 6 yard box waiting. You're basically down to 10 men when out of possession!

3.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 12:59:37
Spot on, Ed. The so-called CF/ Poacher thingy is so old school as managers require their strikers to do more than just be a lamp post. See Benteke at Plalace. He is awful as he offers nothing more than the lamp post option. Look at progressive managers like Leow.

In the Confed Cup this summer, he mostly played Lars Stindl, an ACM from 'Gladbach (a damn good one at that) as the striker, which allowed players like Goretzka, Brandt etc to take on the spaces he would create whenever he dropped deep to cause havoc in the oppo's defence. City, Barcelona (esp. under Pep), Spurs and LFC play the same way and that is the way football is going attacking-wise and it is working for all these teams, until something new comes up.

4.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 13:11:32
Yeah, agree with ed, it's an interesting question though. I wonder if you looked at how much goals are spread about the team ie. Midfield wingers etc scoring goals and not just the strikers now compared to early naughties. I think with social media, like this site (best football site easy) that people have become more critical of players now that fans have the platform to voice their views.

Every year the premiership throws up a few perhaps unlikely names in the race for the golden boot. Last season josh king for example. Anyone have any thoughts on who may surprise us this season?

{Ed001's Note - to be fair we also get to see a lot more of them to critique. I can remember when it was only going to Anfield or MOTD plus cup finals on TV.}

5.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 13:19:39
managers are forever changing systems and asking players to play out of posistion.

6.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 14:45:54
Absolutely class post MK! You know your football lad.

7.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 14:47:27
True ed. I only found out on Saturday that I could go on redit and stream the game for free.

{Ed001's Note - I have never used reddit to be honest.}

8.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 14:50:22
A bit left field but I think salah may be in that race for golden boot. That really proves mk and eds view that football has progressed and not only the CF scores goals. Salah must be what? 2nd behind aguero atm?

9.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 16:00:56
All them players would have adapted with the game.

Denis Bergkamp was an absolute genius.

10.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 16:22:14
Ed I'm such a technophobe, on reddit (listening to radio at the same time) I couldn't get it going, by the time I worked it out there was five minutes left!

Have BT sport to watch Leicester game tonight and I know how to get redit going now for next game.

{Ed001's Note - one of the reasons I chose to move here was that I could get to watch more games than ever. There is every league just about in the world covered on TV here. There is usually ten different matches on at any moment on the various sports channels.}

11.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 16:23:46
Interesting responses everyone, thank you. On a slightly different note, I've noticed Ed001 that you've said players are over coached now and struggle to think for themselves. (Apologies if I'm miss quoting you) . With this in mind it's interesting seeing that players are asked to contribute to more phases of play, which you'd think would require players to be able to make decisions and be able to adapt to situations. It's almost like the current methods of coaching are at odds with what's asked for in a tactical sense and what's needed on the pitch. Do you think that's one of the biggest problems we have at the club currently? Playing a system which requires a lot of in game intelligence but players being overly reliant on instruction? Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - yes mate I do think it is a problem. Cruyff used to emphasise total football, which required the players to figure it out for themselves. Nowadays you have someone like Guardiola who micromanages everything at every moment, even in training. That is held up by some coaches as great coaching, but I am guessing that is because they have never had to work with someone constantly breathing over their shoulder and telling them what to do. There is nothing worse and it removes your confidence in your own ability to make decisions when someone is constantly telling you that you have made the wrong one and you should do it their way instead.}

12.) 19 Sep 2017
19 Sep 2017 17:44:35
Spot on, 123 and Ed. Coaches and systems are killing the game right now. Take the GK positionf or example. In the old days, he was considered to be the defensive coach on the pitch. He commanded the respect of his teammates and that of his area. He was the one who directed defensive affairs during set piece defending and he would give a right bullocking to anyone who screwed up, The coaches delegated responsibility to the players as well esp. the experienced ones. GK's like Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon where like coaches on the pitch and HATED conceding goals.

Now, the coaches are like micro managers as Ed said, who want control over their players, turning them into robots and that is why certain teams can't defend a set piece cos they have only one way of defending against them and the manager gives no room for outside input from the players. Why? Cos the managers are such insecure snowflakes who can't stand being challenged by players. Hence, we have what we have today as in, brainless robots as players.