1.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 11:54:32
Ohk I don't want to bug your post bingo. You are right in the first para. Klopp wanted VVD and he was only interested in him. ( fair enough from his part ) VVD was unattainable and he was not interested in anyone else.

My question is simple, He did not find the right defender why not tweak the system to suit the current defenders. Or buy a protection cover in the midfiled to suit the existing defenders.

I will relate this to Conte. He took up a very average defense at Chelsea and all he did was to play little defensive and protect the existing defenders to get results. and he won the league. Individually Cahil and Luis are not world class but when the play inside 3 at the back and behind Matic / Kante. They look completely different.

Lovren is a very average defender and he needs replacing but that's only next summer. So what do we do! Let's play to suit his strength!

Cheers.

2.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 12:03:14
Great centre backs are rare your correct, however centre backs that are better than matip, lovren and klavan are not.
We should have signed VVD to replace lovren but didn't so we should have either had a back up and/ or signed someone to replace matip in my opinion.

3.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 12:05:31
He didn't try and get Koulibally so that's one name for a start. Then just of the ones that moved we could have looked at Sanchez, Hoedt, Ake, Indi, Mathieu, Semedo, Musacchio, Rudiger, Paulista, De Vrij all would have improved on what we have even without being great. Gibson from 'Borough would have done a top job. In other words Bingo, there is absolutely no defence over how Klopp has prepared for this season - he stuffed up the only target he identified and failed to identify a single other option when about 75% of targets in top leagues would have been a better option than half our defenders. And there is no longer any defence of some of our players, they purely and simply aren't good enough and don't work hard enough to be Liverpool players and are costing us in game after game with their pathetic displays. It's time for Lovren and Mingolet particularly to never put on the red again and a lot of others to be painfully aware that they are toeing the line.

{Ed025's Note - you make some very fair points hjikle..

4.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 12:25:15
We play against tinpot defenders from tinpot clubs every week and they look better than our own despite ours costing millions and theirs being cheap. There's only one reason for this just 1: their game is being complicated by our system and style.

There are players who could do it in our system but they are few and far between and in high demand.

If we got someone like shawcross for instance despite being a decent solid PL defended he'd be exposed playing for us and he'd look as bad as ours. If we bought a whole new defence who are all good solid players (not world beaters, not amazing on the ball) just 4 flanno, carra, terry, shawcross types (average ability, no great pace, not great on the ball) who try hard and jump in the way when someone shoots rather than out of it then we'd do better but we couldn't expect them to play our way we have to let them do their thing (clear the ball, drop, man mark) and everything would be rosey.

5.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 12:35:55
Hjikle you are spot on mate we in all competitions an have prepared like we have no European footy, a good manager spots weaknesses in team an trys too make them stronger but we have kept the weakness exactly the same an strengthened our strong point absolutely baffles me, every good time has an excellent spine an its foundations are built from the back 1st in defence, jurgens got sum work too do this were he will show how talanted he really is!

6.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 13:09:51
Good points, lads. Harry, he DID try to get Koulibaly as Ed02 said we actually bid for him BUT that bid was not followed up rightly or wrongly so we don't know what happened there in the end. As for Conte, The defence he inherited had just won the PL 2 seasons prior, well drilled in playing a very defensive system under Jose again comparing ours to theirs is another false comparison. Also, Conte plays like Jose, a very defensive system (as well as he played a back 3 at Juve with defenders much better than the ones at Chelsea) so all he needed was to get Kante (which helps) and play along with Matic so not much tweaking needed there.

Klopp does not play that way so when you say he should have tweaked it to offer more protection, he already did late last season as Lucas came in in the final stretch and we did not concede a goal in the final 4-6 games. In the end, Klopp does not play a defensive system except when needed as it is against his nature like it or not. Comparing us to other teams is like a fool's errand IMO as we don't know the true goings on that happen there as context matters in these situations.

Hailstones, Klopp DOES recognize where we are weak and that is why he wanted Keita in midfield and VVD or Koulibaly at CB tho they did not come off, this shows he is aware of it. He strengthened our strong point cout wide cos we needed cover for Mane out wide nad Salah has made us much better than last season so he should get credit for that. lso, he is trying to build the spine of the team BUT it cannot all happen in one window so step by step is the way to go, and even the Ed's have said so cos that is the reality.

All in all, you all make good posts BUT I am looking at it from his point of view and tho we may disagree with the approach, I can understand it cos it is easy for us to say here that "just buy him or her would be better than Lov or Klav" BUT if it was that simple, everyone would do it. It is not and that is the reality as City are having the same issues so Pep does not even bother about defending anymore so he just plays all out attack. The difference is that he has 300m to drop every summer. We don't. Just saying that when people slate the team or Klopp, you have to be mindful of certain realities, that's all.

7.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 13:33:18
Can I sum up what you are trying to say mate.

1. We tried and failed recruiting CB - Klopp is not at fault

2. We don't play defensive system to suit or poor defenders - Klopp is not at fault

3. We don't have enough protection from midfiled for our defenders - Klopp is not fault.

So what according to you is a good solution?

8.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 13:54:58
There are loads of decent centre backs about.

Glik, Koulibaly, Manolas, Laporte, Tah, Maguire, Gibson, Alderweireld, Mustafi, Van Dijk, Bonucci, Lindelof, Sanchez, Dragovic, Wimmer, Ake, Christianson, Rudiger etc. They were all realistically attainable at the start of the summer.

I could go on, but we could've stumped up the cash we were willing to pay for Van Dijk, and signed any of them this summer. Money talks. Yet we put in one derogatory offer for Koulibaly, and tapped up Van Dijk to kill the one deal we pursued.

The club dropped a clanger. I agree that we have to support the players we have though. Doesn't mean i won't vent my anger when they make a mistake that costs us, but we need to try and not go overboard with criticism because at the end of the day, this is what we have until January at least.

{Ed001's Note - not all were realistically available to us.}

9.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 14:08:17
Surely it is Klopps fault tho? If he hadn't met up with VVD behind the backs of his current club there's every chance he would be in a Liverpool shirt now.

10.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 14:21:10
Ed001, i can appreciate that mate. Just not buying into the fact we had no other options.

I mean Jesus if it was that bad, why let Lucas go? He was our best centre back last season, even if it was by default!

{Ed001's Note - it was a mistake, they wrongly believed VVD would come after all that had happened.}

11.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 14:21:23
That's not what happened - someone within the club told someone in the press who leaked the story. Southampton knew about our interest and let VVD meet with Klopp, but were very upset about the leak - hence what happened after. Had the story not been leaked, VVd would be a Liverpool player.

12.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 15:11:28
Bingo good post and I can appreciate what you're trying to say. But you could also use the same argument saying no one has named a keeper to replace Mig ( and we know your thoughts on him) in the market but that doesn't mean he shouldn't or couldn't be replaced. The truth is Klopp has spent 17 mill on keepers and defenders in his time at LFC and over 150 mill on the midfield and attack. There's no surprise what is our strength and what is our weakness.

13.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 15:17:43
Did someone just call terry and carra average defenders?! Jeez. Two of the best defenders the premiership has ever seen.

14.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 15:19:50
if you could not buy a Center back why not target a a peoper Dm and make him play along side Hendo. enough protection for the back four. why go for the Ox and why not matudi or Krychiowiak who would protect the back 4 and jut in case u need a extra box tox Medfielder hendo can do that. i know a lot of people on this website don't believe in Dm but every other team has someone who is more defense minded, we have it too in hendo but he is a makeshift one. I will still say its Kloop and his arrogance that there is no balance to the teams.

15.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 15:26:56
I'm probably deluding myself, but I reckon the defence has hit a low. I think they will come good. We talk like they're the worst cbs in the league. They're not.

Someone made a really good point on here yesterday. They said "cbs are not the only ones who make mistakes, it's just that when they do they are punished. " We didn't win the game because of our defence but also, we didn't win the game because firmino missed a penalty. But straight away the fans started singing "Bobby firmino" and got behind the lad. I know there Is a difference but I think we need to defend our defenders. They are going to get plenty of stick from other teams without us bashing them too. If we wanna do anything this season then we need to encourage our lads the way we encouraged Bobby firmino.

16.) 15 Sep 2017
15 Sep 2017 15:50:47
we don't have to talk about someone when they are at thier worse, we are Lfc we should have greater aspirations, we should not be happy by winning one match and then losing and a draw next. we should target the best players and if we could not change the system to suit our players. im realistic and i know our team is very mediocre at this moment but i have aspiration for Lfc to be the best. i don't come to this place when we win a game and shout we r the best in world and then cry when we loose, im complaining as Kloop has not changed his mentality or his system in the last 2 years. Every word Ed 02 has said about Kloop and his system are ringing in my ears.