29 Aug 2016 11:32:26
Hi Ed001

If you have the time.

I would love to get your opinion on the top Elp managers. Take away the money at each club, how would you rate them in terms of tatical knowledge, man management and improving players. Rate Klopp, Wenger, Pep, Jose, Conte, Potch, koeman.

Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - that is really difficult. I will try. I think Ranieri deserves to be in there too.

Klopp is a builder. He builds a side, but it takes time. It is not an over night thing. He looks for players that can be developed into top players, rather than ready made stars. Tactically he is not the best, far from the worst, but he is too intent on entertaining the fans (which I personally prefer) to get involved in just tactically breaking down the opposition, in the way Jose and Conte look to do. He wants to put a team out to nullify the opposition by not giving them time and space to play their game. I love how he wants it to be a team, not just a team of players, but a team of players and fans all pulling in the same direction.

Wenger was light years ahead of everyone when he came in to the Prem. He was using the latest scientific techniques etc, while everyone else was still in the 70s and 80s. Trouble is, he hasn't kept up with the pace of development and so he is no longer ahead of the rest, in many cases he is behind. Still, he has performed a minor miracle to keep Arsenal consistently top four over the last few years. Tactically he went stale, too many similar players in his teams with little variation to the play, now he has got carried away buying powerful players in every window! It is like he is collecting, for a few years it was attacking midfielders, now he has got bored so started collecting defensive midfielders. As for improving players, he is too loyal to the wrong ones, the likes of Wilshire and Diaby, like an over-indulgent parent, so the ones that could have been developed end up stagnating. A really nice guy, highly intelligent, but, in my opinion, he just got a little too stuck in a rut there and needed this summer of investment to revitalise him.

Guardiola is the hardest to judge, had a team so much better than the rest at Barca initially, by the team he left they were barely a match for the two Madrid sides. It is arguable whether that was down to him or the clash of egos he had with Messi which led to him leaving. However, what is not arguable is that he took over the best side in Europe, when he went to Bayern, playing the best football, and turned them into a borefest to watch and oversaw them diminish as a power in Europe. Again though, it is arguable whether that was down to him or the improvement elsewhere, personally I think he is just obscenely overrated, but this is where we will really find out. He has taken over a mainly average Man City side, spent ridiculous amounts of money on mainly average players, but he will be expected, at a bare minimum, to win league titles. I know people are getting all excited over the system he is playing, but I fail to see anything special about it. It is far too complicated for my liking, with little need of those complications, that is why his teams get worse over time, in my opinion. He overcomplicates everything, and that leads to mistakes. He is just lucky that he had the best players, so his team's mistakes were less likely to get punished. Has his coaching ever really improved anyone? I am not so sure. The next few season's we will really get to see. It is all very well saying Messi got better, but was that down to Pep or Messi? The fringe players never improved under him, that is for sure.

Mourinho is a short term winner at the expense of the long term future. He is always intent on winning, but there is no plan for the future of the team he is at. Tactically he is excellent, in that he will set his teams out with a plan to stifle the opposition and it is usually a successful plan. He is far too negative and relies too much on power and play acting/diving/cheating for my liking. His attitude is to win at all costs, with no compunction at all about bending or breaking the rules. Everyone treats his hiding in the clothes basket while at Chelsea as funny, for me it just highlights how little respect he has for the rules of the game or his opponents. I find him and his attitude distasteful. He has shown no interest in developing players, so it is impossible to judge, he does get more out of the players he has than most, but he never looks to bring on youngsters and develop them. He will have to do that now, so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

Conte is not my kind of manager at all. Tactically limited, his Juve side struggled badly in Europe against any kind of quality. He is more of a firefighter. Someone to come in, steady the ship, get it moving the right way and then move him aside for someone to actually take the club on. Developing players is something that is difficult to judge him on, he really has not had to do that.

Pochettino is a decent enough manager, but he has not shown me anything to think he has the makings of a winner. He is very limited tactically, though his tactic is well drilled and works well usually, he very rarely, if ever looks to vary it. Developing players is difficult to judge him on too, he started off well at Saints, but then looked to buy players, rather than trust youngsters. He is doing a similar thing at Spurs, looking to bring in players, rather than attempt to develop the youngsters there. His dependence on physical prowess over quality on the ball is a hindrance to his team as well.

Koeman had struggled, since leaving the Eredivisie, then went into a good Southampton set up and took it on a level. He is decent tactically, but no more than decent and gets caught out by opponents far too often for my liking. Without the strong set up he inherited at Saints, it will be interesting to see how he does. He will certainly be given the tools to succeed, as Steve Walsh will find him the players. It is up to him to get it right on the pitch. I don't expect him to look to develop youngsters much either, he also looked to buy rather than develop within when he could.

Ranieri is a pure man manager, who looks to get the absolute maximum from his players by setting up his tactics to suit them and concentrating on building a team spirit second to none. He keeps things simple, he plays to his strengths and I love that about him.


1.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 12:27:37
thanks for your time Ed. Nice read and i agree with you on Pep (for now) . Just wish managers like him and Jose to some degree were given a mediocre team with limited funds to really see how good they are. That in some respects is why i hate every one slagging off English managers like Big sam and others who play the long ball and rougher tactics because generally they have to. They cannot outplay the big teams so of course for me they should adopt a style that makes it difficult.

Who would you say was the best tactical manager you have seen? Personally, not sure about tactics but Brain Clough at his best for me was amazing.

{Ed001's Note - Paisley. He was light years ahead of everyone else at the time that is why he won everything. People just didn't keep as close eye on formations etc back then, so they think he just played a 4-4-2 and did nothing else. He played so many different variations of it that you would never hear the end of it if he managed now. He was a genuine genius of a football man.}


2.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 12:52:41
Jose did really well at Porto with limited funds. Taking the team from 5th to 1st and winning the Uefa Cup. Then winning the league again the next season and winning the Champions League. I think £10 million each season was his spend which could be high enough in the Portugese league but very little money for winning 2 European trophies. He has talent, no doubt but he can be a bit of a knob at times lol.

{Ed001's Note - it wasn't limited in terms of Portugese football though. I do agree though, he is a winner. He is also a nice guy who gladly goes out of his way to help others outside of the matches themselves. It is just at the games he is thoroughly dislikeable.}


3.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 13:10:37
Great reply and post ed. Interesting read.


4.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 13:12:39
only thing i don't agree is conte. Conte is top class manager with great reputation throughout europe. His players are willing to die for him. he is tactician but he also knows how to smash teams with less quality. I wouldn't blame his european failiures only to him but to juventus board too. he just needed 2 more seasons to take them where they are now. klopp, simeone, tuchel, schmidt, emery and conte are my favourite managers all round.

{Ed001's Note - if you say so, but his replacement never struggled to succeed in Europe where he failed. Conte is far from top class, he is another overly tactical manager.}


5.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 13:35:58
Does Klopp not alter his style to suit the opposition? I thought that Unai Emery completely done us in the second half. Also, I think players need to make their own decisions at times at the back, instead of trying to pass it constantly when surounded, just smash it, sounds bad but better than conceding posession in a dangerous area (Clyne vs Burnely) .

{Ed001's Note - sometimes he does yes.}


6.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 13:39:10
Excellent wrap Ed. Should be a very very interesting year with some big reputations on the line!


7.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 13:40:48
Only one thing to say ed, brilliant read and a brilliant question initially!

{Ed001's Note - isn't that two things?}


8.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 13:43:33
Thanks Ed, very informative read.


9.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 14:25:03
One of the best things I've read for a while, just one question if I may?
Was it shanks or Paisley who altered or style after we got hammered in Europe, think it was an eastern European team that beat us?

{Ed001's Note - before my time, but I am sure it was Shanks that altered it.}


10.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 14:39:51
What a superb reply 001, great read. Thanks so much.

Who are your top three managers of now, from any league? Are there any which tick all your boxes, as each of the above had one or two downsides.

{Ed001's Note - I don't think there are any managers that tick all the boxes these days, they are all either operating on a shoestring and so forced to develop or they spend rather than develop.

For me, the top 3, though they are all flawed in many ways, are Simeone, Bielsa and probably Allegri. Allegri's success in Europe is why I will lean towards him right now. Simeone works miracles on a comparatively limited budget. Bielsa is just the best coach in the world right now.}


11.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 14:59:42
I feel so lucky so have found this site so many years ago. I love reading the Ed's insight almost as I love the witty put downs.


12.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 15:31:07
Cheers 001. Very insightful read and you've got a class top three there bud.


13.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 16:03:04
Fascinating read - good question OP and thanks ed001 for your views, interesting stuff.


14.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 18:58:45
I agree with Ed001 - Paisley was a tactical genius. he was also quiet, didn't hog the limelight and also absolutely ruthless. He wouldn't think twice about getting rid of a big player and replacing them with something he thought better. He even sold first team players without them even knowing they were up for sale to start with. I think it was Terry McDermott he called over to the side of the training ground and said 'i want you to go and speak to those men over there'. 'Why' says Terry Mac. 'Because I've just sold you to them' replies Quiet Bob.


15.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 19:02:36
So true what you say about Pep making Bayern boring, saw them play Hoffenheim last year and could barely keep my eyes open in the second half although all the german beer was probably having an effect at that point.


16.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 21:04:25
Honestly when Pep was at Barcelona if it had not been for Messi or Villa it would have been very very boring, Villa actually would look to score outside of the box and well we know what Messi did.


17.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 22:11:43
to not win a champions league with Bayern was criminal imo, he had no excuses especially with that team.


18.) 29 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 23:02:14
I think ribery said that pep looks to make the most simple things in football more difficult, and he overthinks things that don't need to be.


19.) 30 Aug 2016
29 Aug 2016 21:18:07
Ed001

If you were the owner of any club no matter who and had the choice if any of the onesathat you mentioned who would that one be?

Really would like to know your answer, interesting read on the managers named by the way.

{Ed001's Note - it really depends on the club, every club has its own character. I think Klopp is the perfect fit for Liverpool, but I don't think he would suit many other clubs in English football. Bielsa would be great if you had a lot of youngsters and only wanted a short term coach, as he would end up quitting after a season, but it would be an incredible season. Each has their own merits and it would really depend on what you needed as to which manager would be best.}


20.) 30 Aug 2016
30 Aug 2016 01:31:28
Great read, Ed. I agree with you on Conte. He was awful in Europe and didn't even make it out of the group stages while Allegri (who I love since he won the Serie A with Milan after finishing 16th with Cagliari the year before) took the very same team to the CL final the year after Conte left. I also agree with the facts about Mou, Pep and Ranieri. Pep took a fantastic Bayern team that won everything under Heynkes with free flowing attacking football and turned them into a snooze fest and a perennial failure in the CL. He will have a rude awakening in the PL, I reckon. As for Bielsa, he's wonderful but has got a few loose screws if you get what I'm saying.

{Ed001's Note - Bielsa is a mad genius. I love his work. Look at what he did while in charge of Chile, turned them into one of the powerhouses of South America, brought through Sanchez, Vidal etc. Trouble is that madness has got stronger in recent years.}